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 When murdering 2 Children is the best solution...
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ElfBane
Learned Scribe

USA
137 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2018 :  12:28:08  Show Profile Send ElfBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth

quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart

Okay, so you specifically CHOSE to run the darkest storyline of the book, picking the Cassalanters as the villains over classic villains Xanathar, Jarlaxle, and Manshoon?



At the moment Im tossing up between The Cassalanters (as written), Jarlaxle (Modfiied so hes operating out of the Crawling Spider Inn instead of his fleet and replace the submarine either with a cavern in the Underdark or Undermountain) or Make my own "Villian" in this case it will be an organisation revolving around Waterdeeps Dragons and their after the Staff not the gold, there where several Dragons and Dragon groups operating in Waterdeep in including the Confluence and at least one noble house as I remeber back in 3eds days)



I can't see Jarlaxle doing this. Admittedly, my interaction with Jarlaxle is based mainly on the RAS novels, but he strikes me as classic Neutral Evil. IOW, he does things for the money... OR if it will put down or embarrass the Llolth Prietesshood. The selling of childrens souls (unless it were going to be worth a lot of gold) seems to me to be beneath him.

Edited by - ElfBane on 21 Nov 2018 12:29:47
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Dargoth
Great Reader

Australia
4607 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2018 :  14:48:20  Show Profile  Visit Dargoth's Homepage Send Dargoth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ElfBane

[quote][i]

I can't see Jarlaxle doing this. Admittedly, my interaction with Jarlaxle is based mainly on the RAS novels, but he strikes me as classic Neutral Evil. IOW, he does things for the money... OR if it will put down or embarrass the Llolth Prietesshood. The selling of childrens souls (unless it were going to be worth a lot of gold) seems to me to be beneath him.



The Child soul selling is specfic to the Cassalanters ending

The Dragon Heist module has 4 differnet final chapters depending on the Dms choice and they each have different motivations for pursueing the prize. The 4 options are: Cassalanters, Xanthar, Jarlaxle and a Manshoon clone

“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”

Emperor Sigismund

"Its good to be the King!"

Mel Brooks
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TheIriaeban
Learned Scribe

USA
344 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2018 :  17:10:55  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth

quote:
Originally posted by ElfBane

[quote][i]

I can't see Jarlaxle doing this. Admittedly, my interaction with Jarlaxle is based mainly on the RAS novels, but he strikes me as classic Neutral Evil. IOW, he does things for the money... OR if it will put down or embarrass the Llolth Prietesshood. The selling of childrens souls (unless it were going to be worth a lot of gold) seems to me to be beneath him.



The Child soul selling is specfic to the Cassalanters ending

The Dragon Heist module has 4 differnet final chapters depending on the Dms choice and they each have different motivations for pursueing the prize. The 4 options are: Cassalanters, Xanthar, Jarlaxle and a Manshoon clone



It is getting to the point of when I hear of a Manshoon clone dying, I hear a child's voice in my head saying "You killed Manshoon! You bastards."

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
9233 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2018 :  22:50:42  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
It may be a sign of Imitocattus Vulgaris, there seems to be a fat population of them around the "Thaumaturgists of the Shoal Reprints" office.





Classic.

-- George Krashos



Okay gonna raise my hand and show my ignorance... WTH are you two talking about??? It almost sounds like a Cthulhu reference or something?

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
9233 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2018 :  23:01:52  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
It is getting to the point of when I hear of a Manshoon clone dying, I hear a child's voice in my head saying "You killed Manshoon! You bastards."



LOL, makes me wonder what happened to all the others. For instance, did the one in Amruthar join the Thayan revolt, and will we secretly find out he's one of Tam's Zulkirs under another name (please shoot me if that becomes true)?

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1189 Posts

Posted - 28 Feb 2020 :  22:21:21  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great Reader Dargoth,

First off: that is a fantastic moral dilemma. I am going to read that book now. Awesome!

Best regards,





quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth


WARNING CONTAINS DRAGON HEIST SPOILERS

The Cassalanters have sold their childrens soul to Asmodous for Material gain and when the Child reaches a certain age he claims the soul and then transforms their boldy into a Devil, this has already happaned to the Eldest child and time is running out for the remaining 2 children. There is an out for the remaining 2 children if the Cassalanters Sacrifice 1 Million gold and.... 100 Innocent people to Asmodous in exchnge for releasing their childrens souls...

So Im left thinking the "best" solution is for the Players to murder the children before they reach the age where Asmodous can claim them. While the children are dead there souls at least arent damned to the 9 Hells for all eternity.

Other potential options

Getting the Children to Pledge their souls to another deity before the contract runs out (Is there a minimum age for Pledging your soul to a deity)

Plane shifting the children to another plane or Gods realm where they'd ignore the terms of the Faustian Pact (CG Plane or deitiy would be ideal)


Thoughts? Anyone run this and if so what did the players do?


Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1189 Posts

Posted - 28 Feb 2020 :  22:37:25  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great Reader Kentinal,

quote:
Murder should never be an answer


It depends on if we're really talking about murder or killing. The two are quite different depending on motive.

That being said: it depends on one's ethic. How are you analyzing the choice? Certainly you are not advocating that everyone perceives things the same way? I would also imagine you are not going to evaluate that kind of situation as being "evil" or "good" without justifying how such an ethical and moral evaluation came about?

For example: when John Allen Chau (a.k.a. the idiot who went and got killed on the Senegal Isles) went onto the Senegal Isles and was ventilated with arrows until he laid dead on the ground, some called it killing, others called it murder. How are we judging the Senegal tribesman? By Indian law? U.S. law since he was a U.S. citizen? Does anyone have the "right" or legal privilege to come after the Senegal for killing John? It's there land. Were they justified? Was it ignorance that led to the death, or absolute conviction based on their outlooks/values/ethics/morals?

Another example: when General Manius Manilius laid siege to Carthage in 149 B.C., citizens killed their kids out of kindness for what was to be visited upon them by the Roman's. The Roman's did everything they imagined too: raped, tortured, mutilated and killed everyone except the 50,000 slaves taken who had similar treatment.

Yet another example: At Laderan Banadero during WWII, Japanese soldiers and civilians committed suicide to the tune of thousands of people, including women with their infants by jumping off the cliffs because they had been told that "American devils were raping and devouring Japanese women and children." Of course, absolutely ludicrous, but they decided to end the lives of their children and themselves because they thought the alternative was worse.

The point is, sometimes mercy comes in crazy ways.

Best regards,




quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal

Murder should never be an answer, there though might be inadvertent death as result of treatment.

The goal is to save a soul, being more important then the body.

The option of the children pledging their own souls interesting and might be possible. The children however one need to be of age of reason (That might be as young as twelve in the view of some). There however is a bug here, the children must be sincere in such a dedication and at a young age commitment of that degree of importance is had to make or keep.

There will be the remaining problem of if the parents manage to break their pledge to Asmodous, they will be billed in some way to replace the loss. Maybe their own souls if those or still free of Asmodous' claim already.

Exile for the entire family might work, however I suspect even other plane escape would result in pursuit. Asmodous will send others to extract punishment.


Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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