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Archmage of Nowhere
Seeker
USA
64 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Oct 2018 : 15:39:49
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So for a while I have been trying to find why it is that there seems to be a distrust for or mild neglect of magic within the realms by commoners. Seeing how it is a high magic setting and there is no prerequisite by birth for being a Wizard why is that not more common amongst the people? Only Magocracies break this trend but it seems that all nations would benefit from this not just Magocracies.
Even amongst naturally magically attuned creatures such as elves where general education is guaranteed it is not the norm amongst their populace to be able to cast. Even characters who have trained at being a wizard such as Drizzt didn't retain the ability to cast minor cantrips which are all generally useful to know.
It just seems as if it should be more ubiquitous amongst the populace in general. Items are sought after treasures but why aren't scrolls of prestidigitation a common sight in commoner's home?
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2018 : 19:16:31
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This is a simple one. Not everyone in the realms possesses the capacity to be a spellcaster. This has been touched on numerous times in both novels and rpg products. There are spells and items that exist to test the aptitude for magic use.
The only RPG world I know of that had "ubiquitous" magic use was old Alphatia, which destroyed itself long ago in the old D&D universe and the refugees moved to Mystara - very similar to the Elves of Tintageer and Toril.
Anyways, the reason more people are not mages, is simply because more people are not BORN capable of being mages :)... Then you also have the you have the ability but can you find the training, factor. Its entirely possible a shepherd could have the knack, but without some training it might very well go undiscovered. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2018 : 20:20:30
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| I would say the training and time for study are the biggest factors. I would think that there are at least an order of magnitude more magic-capable folks than there are magic users, but most either never got the training, or they lack the time to try to study magic. |
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Storyteller Hero
Learned Scribe
USA
329 Posts |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2018 : 05:50:05
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
The only RPG world I know of that had "ubiquitous" magic use was old Alphatia, which destroyed itself long ago in the old D&D universe and the refugees moved to Mystara - very similar to the Elves of Tintageer and Toril.
1.1. Alphatia-as-a-country was impressively high magic, too.
1.2 The number of refugees who made it to Mystara appears to have been tiny (on the planetary scale). if they could colonize only this much.
1.3 ...so we don't know how it was in the rest of their old world. Only legends of the golden age, which one could expect either way.
2. What is Halruaa? 
2. What is Netheril? |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Archmage of Nowhere
Seeker
USA
64 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2018 : 15:28:17
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So it only makes sense as the socioeconomic condition of most nations prevent this from being true not the capacity of the population. To the point of "People aren't born with the capacity to learn" Although it gets a bit gamey in 2E wizards needed a minimum intelligence of 9, in 3/3.5 it was actually not stated, mechanically you could be a wizard at intelligences lower than 8.
It is a function of time and practice, not intelligence that makes a mage, not so different from the general toil of the populace in most jobs. Same to the point of they are preparing for harsh winters or their next meal, if they were to achieve a level of 1 in wizard harsh winters wouldn't exist for them as Endure Elements is a spell that just completely negates that need. why spend your entire life fearing the elements when you could just study for a year or less and never have to worry about it again? I get that game mechanics are a abstraction but going to school for a few hours a day for a couple years to not die in winter or the desert seems practical.
So then it has to be that nations don't offer any infrastructure for the populace to learn even though it would be wholly beneficial to do so. Within the realms, not many places have seemed so destitute as to not be able to afford minor magical components en masse such as a "piece of string and bit of wood" for Unseen Servant and a few low level wizard instructors to teach.
I get that as a adult they don't have the time to juggle study and work, but this seems to be more of a question of national priorities. For the immense amount of wealth that trade City-states bring such as Waterdeep and Athkatla there is really no excuse why there isn't a general schooling to educate the populace at a younger age.
And all of these factors are really directed towards human-centric nations they seem to either go all in on magic or just kinda forget it exists. I'm not sure if Silverymoon or other similar elven city-states have general education but I have to imagine they do or have the time and resources to homeschool their children yet even in these places there isn't a abundance of magic throughout the general populace. Hell in DROW society, at least the form it takes in Salvatore's novels the first decade or two the child goes to school they take classes in magic as a standard yet they don't retain what they learned and the spells they cast for some reason.
The only lore I have read that has specifically stated its citizens have access to free education other than the drow are the Gold Dwarves of the Rift, it makes sense here that they avoid magical teaching on a mass scale culturally given the whole dwarf thing, but I cant fathom why Elven or human communities are generally bereft of commoner mages. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2018 : 17:38:35
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
The only RPG world I know of that had "ubiquitous" magic use was old Alphatia, which destroyed itself long ago in the old D&D universe and the refugees moved to Mystara - very similar to the Elves of Tintageer and Toril.
1.1. Alphatia-as-a-country was impressively high magic, too.
1.2 The number of refugees who made it to Mystara appears to have been tiny (on the planetary scale). if they could colonize only this much.
1.3 ...so we don't know how it was in the rest of their old world. Only legends of the golden age, which one could expect either way.
2. What is Halruaa?
2. What is Netheril?
Old Alphatia was not only a world, it was an entire dimension (plane in more modern terms). It was the size of a cluster of galaxies - so this is not a small place. The Alphatians had a home world in this plane that they destroyed (in additional to numerous other worlds). Still - not every refugee from these destroyed worlds fled the plane. Many live on the floating remnants of their worlds or on other worlds. (Should explain that there is no "space" on that plane as the space has all been filled with air by the many wizards). Only the small group that ended up on Mystara actually fled the plane.
Every child born in the plane of Old Alphatia was (and still is) born with the abilities of a 1st level magic user. There are no 0-level npcs. As I said, this is the only instance I know of this universally spread magic in any D&D game.
As for Halruaa and Netheril - they didn't have only wizards, its just that wizards (or arcanists, if you prefer) were or are the dominant class of those nations.
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2018 : 19:45:17
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quote:
The reasons why everyone and their cousin didn't become engineers at the peak of the Industrial Age is that people were too busy making do with making a living.
...
Most people in the Realms are worried about their rent, their next meal, and preparing for harsh Winters.
True.
But there are other simple reasons:
- not everyone has access to the education/tools/etc to be an engineer,
- not everyone has the ability to be an engineer,
- not everyone wants to be an engineer.
I imagine it's all just as true with mages. They need study/materials/etc, the raw ability/talent, and the desire to be mages. Bards and other subclasses do dabble in low-level or specialized magics to augment their abilities - for them magic is not a thing they pursue as an end in itself, it's just part of their toolbox which is sometimes handy so they don't want to neglect it too much. |
[/Ayrik] |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2018 : 20:25:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
quote:
The reasons why everyone and their cousin didn't become engineers at the peak of the Industrial Age is that people were too busy making do with making a living.
...
Most people in the Realms are worried about their rent, their next meal, and preparing for harsh Winters.
True.
But there are other simple reasons:
- not everyone has access to the education/tools/etc to be an engineer,
- not everyone has the ability to be an engineer,
- not everyone wants to be an engineer.
I imagine it's all just as true with mages. They need study/materials/etc, the raw ability/talent, and the desire to be mages. Bards and other subclasses do dabble in low-level or specialized magics to augment their abilities - for them magic is not a thing they pursue as an end in itself, it's just part of their toolbox which is sometimes handy so they don't want to neglect it too much.
Stress on the desire. I can honestly say I've worked with a lot of network engineers on my job. A lot of them just didn't desire to learn more and were just happy floating along. One of the things that one of my early bosses told me has always stuck with me. She said, "Phillip, a lot of people just do what they do because they need to be paid. Not many of them truly love technology like you do." As I've gotten older too... I'm starting to resemble that remark. I think magic is something that could very much be described as resembling IT, in that people are constantly "tinkering" and finding a new way to do something that's been done previously... they're also constantly reinventing old "fashions" of spellcasting back into the fold because its a way to "hack" past other people's wardings because its something they don't expect. But not everyone wants to deal with those headaches. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2018 : 01:57:02
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| At a guess, I'd say that cities, major trade centers and learning centers have all integrated magic into their daily routine and into the running of the place, sort of like in today with technological expansion being a parallel to magical expansion. |
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2018 : 04:29:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Archmage of Nowhere
So for a while I have been trying to find why it is that there seems to be a distrust for or mild neglect of magic within the realms by commoners. Seeing how it is a high magic setting and there is no prerequisite by birth for being a Wizard why is that not more common amongst the people? Only Magocracies break this trend but it seems that all nations would benefit from this not just Magocracies.
Maybe in the Realms setting, "High Magic" could be seen as the game setting norm. But D&D 5th Edition DMG makes it clear that it's the DM's choice whether to create a high magic, low magic, or even a moderate magic setting.
I'm no Realms expert (many others here could possibly claim that title), but the Realms does not necessarily have to be viewed as a High Magic setting. It only appears to be high magic if all you read about are all the spellcasting and magical battles you read about from the Drizzt and Elminster books. You are reading from the point of view of a heroic high-level magic-infused protagonist! When you read these Realms books, you are NOT reading from the point of view of an ordinary everyday Realms peasant/commoner.
When we actually read the game books, especially when creating and setting up your own D&D campaign game, you realize that commoners care more about the fact that they can buy a live chicken for 2 copper pieces, rather than care about what magic spells they can learn.
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2018 : 19:34:52
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| In such a magical world, pretty much everyone is bound to encounter some form of magic in their lifetime. But, as others have said, time and desire are a factor, and not everyone has a positive few of mages, even though they live in a world rife with magic. For some, living in the Faerun is probably enough exposure to magic, without practicing it themselves lol. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2018 : 11:42:17
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quote:
In such a magical world, pretty much everyone is bound to encounter some form of magic in their lifetime. But, as others have said, time and desire are a factor, and not everyone has a positive few of mages, even though they live in a world rife with magic. For some, living in the Faerun is probably enough exposure to magic, without practicing it themselves lol.
Replace the words "magic" and "mage" with the words "science" and "scientist". Same deal.
We all enjoy the fruits of science, the answers it provides, the technological wonders it brings us. But the vast majority of people basically have no clue (and certainly have no interest) at all in how science works, the questions it asks, the technological problems it also brings us. People in the Realms see a lot of magic in their lifetimes but most of them just don't care about magic unless/until it somehow impacts the "important" things in their lives.
Many of us have access to the education and training needed to be scientists, indeed as children we're forcibly indoctrinated into some scientific basics. Our civilization is saturated with all kinds of science, it even depends on science to exist or survive. Few scientists are powerful or famous but all competent scientists know and do interesting things, they're "smart", plus they tend to be paid well enough to enjoy a decently comfortable lifestyle. So who wouldn't want to be some kind of scientist? And yet the vast majority of people choose to pursue other paths in life. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 02 Nov 2018 11:57:07 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2018 : 16:59:13
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quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast
Maybe in the Realms setting, "High Magic" could be seen as the game setting norm. But D&D 5th Edition DMG makes it clear that it's the DM's choice whether to create a high magic, low magic, or even a moderate magic setting.
I'm no Realms expert (many others here could possibly claim that title), but the Realms does not necessarily have to be viewed as a High Magic setting.
I would disagree. The Realms does have to be viewed as a High Magic setting, because that's what it was intended to be. The core books may differ, but those books are meant to cover roleplaying in generic settings.
When you play in a published setting, the rules of the setting supersede the generic core rules. That's part of the point of playing in a published setting.
Trying to take the high magic out of the Realms is like trying to take the sci-fi out of Star Trek. Sure, it can be done -- but what's left is not going to be recognizable as anything related to the original.
If the DM is creating a setting, then yes, they can set the magic level. But if they're playing in a published setting, the rules of that setting need to be used.
Besides, saying a setting is high magic doesn't mean everybody and their brother is a mage -- it means that magic is readily available and that those that use it can wield great power. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 02 Nov 2018 17:04:31 |
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Starshade
Learned Scribe
Norway
279 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2018 : 17:54:38
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I generally agree, Ayrik. I'd compare it to academics which seems to follow similar trends. The main thing in D&D, is do Wizards need to go from one paradigm to a new one? Reinvent physics from Einstein to Quantum mechanics, or do similar basic shifts in understanding?
My pow, is what makes academics drop off and stop learn new things, is in "social sciences", big changes of paradigms, akin to learning a whole new way of doing your job. In Engineering, it's new tech. I assume arcanists in D&D is a bit in the middle, though I think the magic rarely change so rapidly as modern science or engineering do. Outside 2e - 3.5 - 4 - 5 that is |
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Wenin
Senior Scribe
585 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2018 : 03:09:24
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Think about it this way.
The United States is a rich country. Hearing tales of how rich people live is one thing, but then when faced with it in person? It is a very different thing.
Adventurers are among the 1%. Most of the NPCs they interact with are like the 10%.
I'd imagine that there is a greater wealth gap between the commoner and the 10% than there is in the US. I would think that luxuries in the US are more common than magic. How many people have cell phones in the country? |
Session Reports posted at RPG Geek.
Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR. |
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Archmage of Nowhere
Seeker
USA
64 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2018 : 16:21:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Wenin
Think about it this way.
The United States is a rich country. Hearing tales of how rich people live is one thing, but then when faced with it in person? It is a very different thing.
Adventurers are among the 1%. Most of the NPCs they interact with are like the 10%.
I'd imagine that there is a greater wealth gap between the commoner and the 10% than there is in the US. I would think that luxuries in the US are more common than magic. How many people have cell phones in the country?
See this is actually my point exactly. The united states is currently a wealthy country within our global socioeconomic conditions but it wasn't always that way, and public schooling (which magic should be apart of) has been available in the United States since 1635, long predating its economical dominance.
I'm not saying every commoner has to be a adventurer, hell level 1 wizards are little better than peasants in a fight, objectively worse then same level damn near anything really, but there seems to be no real and citied reason why most Governing States don't teach their populations magic.
There is not enough information located within the PHB or DMG to make a conclusive statement on what something like a teacher would make and really there is more cost to a public education than a teacher's salary, but the global average for % of GDP used on public educations is around 5%. not one of the city-states or countries on the Swordcoast could shave off 5% for a education system that would be wholly beneficial to their States longterm?
The concept already exists for other races (elves, dwarves, etc) and even they don't teach magic to the point where their common folk can cast cantrips and perhaps a single lvl 1 spell or something.
Based on the following conditions I don't understand the viewpoint of (Its only for the 1%, It isn't worth their time, its outside the people's average capabilities, etc)
A) The concept not being foreign or unheard of as multiple large and well known Governmental States do have public education (Thay, Menzoberranzan, Gold Dwarves of the Rift, Netheril, Halruaa, Myth Drannor, Silverymoon)
B)They have the economic ability to provide this education even if it is only constrained to magic which would tangibly benefit their States (soldiers who could cast Endure Elements, prestidigitation, or mending; City Engineering teams who can all cast Floating Disc and unseen servant, etc) Not to mention those same benefits for the common labor, Idk about them but I would prefer not to die in winter or destroy my body with overexertion in manual labor at the cost of a year or two of studying.
C) And the setting itself is as High Magic as it gets. Magic is not foreign to the people. They are accustomed to seeing magic or interacting with magic even in rural areas (Clerics of small towns, occasional magic weapon, Wizard, or potion). Literally anyone with a average intelligence, hell even a below average intelligence can learn 1 or 2 level 1 spells with a little practice. Magic as a concept has more than penetrated the collective unconscious of damn near all people in the setting, barring extreme cultural outliers.
This kinda turned into a small rant so I will stop but I really cant understand this willful, self-imposed ignorance of the most important resource in the entire setting by its governing bodies. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2018 : 21:40:33
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The problem is that the infrastructure doesn't exist for universal education. It's really only possible in city-states or smaller nations.
And even then, it's not that countries are willfully ignoring the most important resource -- magic isn't generally regarded as the most important resource. It's just one resource, among many. Obviously, having a cadre of high-level wizards could be very handy -- but that's a huge investment in time, money, and training, and it's not a guaranteed outcome. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2018 : 02:56:55
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| Magic is not as tangible or immediate as steel. Enough men with swords can accomplish what needs to be done, and better men with swords understand their strengths and weaknesses and applications very well indeed. While wizards and priests can do things others cannot they're also not as well understood, they're individualistic, they're either nonconformists or they're aligned with other (supernatural) authorities, they can never be fully trusted ... and in the end nothing is impossible (requires magic) when enough men and steel and gold can be applied. |
[/Ayrik] |
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bloodtide_the_red
Learned Scribe
USA
297 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2018 : 06:50:50
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Well, for the setting you have to put the Game Rules aside and look more at the fiction. By the rules, everyone can be anything...but that is a bit silly.
In the fictional world, it takes time and effort and skill to become even a hedge wizard. You can find lots of stories that show how hard it is to become a wizard.
The biggest thing though...is magic is an art. The Art. So it's not just about pure intelligence like math or logic, it's also about Art. And while everyone can sing or write, it takes a good artist to make a song or written work. And being an artist is just one of those things...people can be taught to be ''ok'' at it...but true artists just make themselves. Thousands of people take music or other art classes...but only a handful ever make a living off of it...and of that handful, only a few are true artists.
Magic is exactly the same. Anyone can cast a basic spell. And with the right training anyone can be a basic mage....but to be more, to be a True Master of the Art, takes a lot more. Something special.
Again, you do see this is a lot a fiction. A lot of the War Wizards, for example, are just people that use magic. And the same is true with a lot of the groups of wizards. They can use magic...but can't do much else with it other then what they were taught.
Also, while this is not in the Game Rules much, magic is very dangerous. A mistake or error can kill a person in the fictional Realms...and often does. This is even more true in stories by Ed Greenwood.
So the fact that everyone is not an Artist and the huge dangers involved stop most people from using magic. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2018 : 15:27:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Archmage of Nowhere
See this is actually my point exactly. The united states is currently a wealthy country within our global socioeconomic conditions but it wasn't always that way, and public schooling (which magic should be apart of) has been available in the United States since 1635, long predating its economical dominance.
Those were church schools, weren't they?
And when the bureaucratic swarm overtook the thing and turned it into yet another fountain of embezzling and kickback, well... let's just say the externally observable landmarks are Common Core and Payal Modi, so it's definitely in the stage traditionally treated with aut bene aut nihil, and not freshly in it.
So the analogy, while stretched, can work.
On large scale, literacy is pushed exactly as far as decent-sized organizations like churches or guilds are willing to push it. The rest is defined by demand for tools of family trade or luxury, and it's not large scale.
Then again, it doesn't need to be. Even in late XIX century, the likes of Newton or even Lord Raleigh were not exactly crowding around, while quackery was as bountiful as it is now, just not organized.
quote:
but there seems to be no real and citied reason why most Governing States don't teach their populations magic.
Then we fall back to default reason, which is assessment of costs vs benefits vs risks by whoever decides whether to pay for the thing.
quote:
The concept already exists for other races (elves, dwarves, etc) and even they don't teach magic to the point where their common folk can cast cantrips and perhaps a single lvl 1 spell or something.
At least Netheril (and Halruaa after it) had cantrips commonly taught as an useful skill.
quote:
well known Governmental States do have public education (Thay, Menzoberranzan, Gold Dwarves of the Rift, Netheril, Halruaa, Myth Drannor, Silverymoon)
That's a new one. Sources?
quote:
Originally posted by bloodtide_the_red
Thousands of people take music or other art classes...but only a handful ever make a living off of it...and of that handful, only a few are true artists.
Magic is exactly the same. Anyone can cast a basic spell. And with the right training anyone can be a basic mage....but to be more, to be a True Master of the Art, takes a lot more. Something special.
Again, you do see this is a lot a fiction. A lot of the War Wizards, for example, are just people that use magic. And the same is true with a lot of the groups of wizards. They can use magic...but can't do much else with it other then what they were taught.
[...]
So the fact that everyone is not an Artist and the huge dangers involved stop most people from using magic.
You undermined your own argument here. The fact that everyone is not an Artist doesn't stop lots of people to learn accordion or mouthorgan (or flute long ago, or guitar now) and perform at inns/streets/campfires.
There was and is demand for entertainers on "street" level, military or quasi-military marching bands and musicians for churches. Come to think of it, it used to be vast majority of people trained in music, and still is a good portion.
It appears to be much the same in areas with common magic. Not everyone gets to be an Archmage or wants to. A lot of people stop at the level of hedge wizards, entertainers or other business, get a quite decent income and stay mostly content with how things go for them.
If there's any strong limiting factor, it's probably risk from all those stray Red Wizard apprentices and other murderhobos criminal low-level magic users treating local low-level magic users as an easy source of magic loot. Which can be seen as a bootstrap problem, in that the most obvious way to curb this is to have law enforcement beefed up with "your own" low/mid level magic users (which generally is a good idea anyway, but not easy to do).
This is only feasible from a "well to do" city-state level and up, and has other prerequisites like lack of strong opposition or an outside faction capable of hijacking it.
quote:
Also, while this is not in the Game Rules much, magic is very dangerous. A mistake or error can kill a person in the fictional Realms...and often does. This is even more true in stories by Ed Greenwood.
That's mostly unsupervised spell research, right?
The guy taught to casts spells like mending or message over and over could make a fairly good living without such risks, in a place with constant demand. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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bloodtide_the_red
Learned Scribe
USA
297 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2018 : 21:34:46
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
You undermined your own argument here. The fact that everyone is not an Artist doesn't stop lots of people to learn accordion or mouthorgan (or flute long ago, or guitar now) and perform at inns/streets/campfires.
I don't see any undermindment? The Realms does, in fact, have a lot of spellcasters. More then every other Setting combined. Towns have a lot of spellcasters, cities even more, and large cities have a lot.
The bulk of them are just the 'know magic, but not artist' types. So they don't have much creativity or skill or power.
And the Realms are full of spellcasters casting spells for money. Though, again, here you need to break away from the Game Rules. So toss out any ideas about some spellcaster getting rich by just casting a few spells. The fiction is full of working class spellcasters. And so are all the books, before 3E.
Of course, when 3E came out...there was a lot of Realms Hate. Like the ones that said the Realms had "too much" magic. And to try and make such people happy, WotC really scaled back the magic in the Realms. Suddenly, it's just not mentioned.
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
That's mostly unsupervised spell research, right?
The guy taught to casts spells like mending or message over and over could make a fairly good living without such risks, in a place with constant demand.
No, all magic. Again, this is more in the setting and fiction then the rules. The D&D rules just have magic work fine so you can kill dragons. The setting and fiction have all magic have a bit of danger and edge to it at all times. If you use magic wrong..it can hurt or even kill you.
And sure, the people with cantrips can make livings casting them...much the same way they make a living doing anything else. But again, forget the Rules that say ''cast a couple spells and you can buy the world". It's very common in the setting fiction for most to communicate long distances, for example. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2018 : 21:47:19
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quote:
Originally posted by bloodtide_the_red
It's very common in the setting fiction for most to communicate long distances, for example.
Actually, that's only common with mages communicating with colleagues, and some high-power types like kings and leaders of power groups. Most news between different cities and nations travels via bard or merchant. That's from Ed himself. |
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bloodtide_the_red
Learned Scribe
USA
297 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2018 : 00:09:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Actually, that's only common with mages communicating with colleagues, and some high-power types like kings and leaders of power groups. Most news between different cities and nations travels via bard or merchant. That's from Ed himself.
Well, of course, the Setting Fiction...that is mostly the Novels...IS about the "top 1% of the world". And like I said, it's common for the heroes and villains to have long range communication.
There is no 24/7 News Service with an Endless Crawl..but then the Realms are not an overly connected world like modern day Earth.
And news is not the only type of communication. Again, the fiction...even most of Ed's own...has plenty of magic communication. Though it's more for the ''elite'' people and not for Elminster the Farmer. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2018 : 03:25:35
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| I don't know that I'd say it's even all that common amongst the uppermost echelon... But even if it was, it's still not common for the setting as a whole. |
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bloodtide_the_red
Learned Scribe
USA
297 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2018 : 04:01:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I don't know that I'd say it's even all that common amongst the uppermost echelon... But even if it was, it's still not common for the setting as a whole.
Guess it depends on what you want 'common' to mean. The average folk, even more so the working class have no access to magical communication. However, everyone else does.
It only takes a spellcaster of around 7th-10th level(depending on edition and class). And even a quick look through most Realms game books will show you at least five spellcasters of that level in even just a town.
Though note the common spell, Sending is 5th level and can only send 25 words....so it's not too much. And Sending is listed as a Common spell in FR.
And, again, I would point out that in nearly all Realms fiction...even stuff written by Ed...most ''powerful'' character's have access to communications.
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2018 : 07:29:54
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A problem with magical communications is that they rely on magic which in turn relies on mages. Who might edit or censor or simply apply their bias to any news they pass on. Or who might be compromised by the efforts of better mages. Or who might simply be limited by the ever-fickle, never-entirely-predictable whims of Mystra and the Weave itself. Elminster's magic can get frustrated by Mystra's moods, Telamont's magic can be spoofed by Elminster, Szassy's magic can be hacked by mere priests ... surely any competent mage realizes that there's always risk of somebody else coming along with better tricks, sure any competent non-mage realizes this truth even if mages themselves refuse to ever admit it.
Reliable enough for the most part ... but when secure, reliable, uncompromised communication is required (and armies or cities or castles or fortunes can be gained or lost) then trustworthy non-magical methods (or confirmations) are much preferred. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2018 : 09:38:24
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quote:
Originally posted by bloodtide_the_red
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I don't know that I'd say it's even all that common amongst the uppermost echelon... But even if it was, it's still not common for the setting as a whole.
Guess it depends on what you want 'common' to mean. The average folk, even more so the working class have no access to magical communication. However, everyone else does.
Per dictionary.com: "pertaining or belonging equally to an entire community, nation, or culture; public"
Something that is only available to a dozen people in a community of 10,000 or more is by no stretch of the imagination "common."
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2018 : 19:10:00
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Nah, everyone has communications all over the place... everyone's using Ravens and getting... oh wait, wrong setting... no..no… that's right, its OWLS... everyone's getting their letters via these owls... some are even these little bitty owls..... oh wait, wrong setting... Swallows? I have heard that some varieties can carry a coconut by gripping its husk... no, that was somewhere else... maybe it would be pigeons? No, that would be just flat out absurd. Who the hell could depend on PIGEONS to deliver carrier messages?.... Oh, wait, now I remember, its turkeys. Yes, they use turkeys to communicate long distance.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2018 : 23:28:14
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Fleas (or agents polymorphed into fleas). Able to get in and out of all sorts of places where birds would be noticed, perfect for eavesdropping or for carrying information. Well, at least until they bump into something bigger which eats fleas.
More seriously, there are methods like smoke signals and war drums and fire towers and beacons/lighthouses and heliotropes (along with all sorts of simple ciphers), seemingly primitive but surprisingly efficient (and secure) methods of faster-than-horse faster-than-flight long distance communication which don't involve a lot of investment and don't involve any magic to operate. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 13 Nov 2018 23:31:24 |
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bloodtide_the_red
Learned Scribe
USA
297 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2018 : 02:04:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Something that is only available to a dozen people in a community of 10,000 or more is by no stretch of the imagination "common."
So it's only common for spellcasters, religions, secret societies, merchants, nobles, goverments and adventurers. The top 1%, the people that are the Action Adventure part of the Realms. |
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People's view of Magic
