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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5282 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2018 :  09:21:46  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Are there any "holes" in the historical narrative of Faerun that people think need filling? I'm not talking about "give me more info on the Crown Wars ..."-type stuff (noting that the Crown Wars are actually quite well detailed historically), but rather areas or events that haven't received much love.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Misereor
Learned Scribe

159 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2018 :  10:18:07  Show Profile Send Misereor a Private Message  Reply with Quote

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Are there any "holes" in the historical narrative of Faerun that people think need filling? I'm not talking about "give me more info on the Crown Wars ..."-type stuff (noting that the Crown Wars are actually quite well detailed historically), but rather areas or events that haven't received much love.



The "Elves versus everybody" period.

Ed had a few lines on it in "Elminster in Myth Drannor" about a game Elves used to play, where they would hunt "lesser" races (like Humans) from floating platforms.

The novel also described the opening up of Myth Drannor and the resistance associated with it, but we never really got any information on what it meant for racial relations, and how the various peoples of Faerun ended changing their minds about Elves. (Going from "They hunt us for sport" to "Elves are amazing!".)

Did they just forget, or were there events that changed their minds? There must be a crapload of stories yet untold.


What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder, stronger, in a later edition.
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4120 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2018 :  10:27:14  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This will take some thought. Do you have a timeframe of when you want answers by.

One big hole in the timeline is what happened after the tsunami that wiped out jhaamdath. There are a good few centuries with no detail.

Another big hole is the 7 or eight centuries in chessenta before Tchazzar appeared and made it into chessenta. The 3 centuries before Tchazzar appeared should be very interesting with Tchazzar and alasklerbanbastos competing against one another to rule the land.


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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7439 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2018 :  12:28:48  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What happened in Halruaa after it became Halruaa? What wizards survived? What cities were formed and where (and/or FROM where)? Did they form like enclaves? How did they arrive (assuming skyskips)? Were there any preexisting enclaves down this far that may have already established settlements (perhaps looking into what created the giant lake)? Were there any indigenous inhabitants that were "displaced)?

History in the Utter East?

History of Undrek'Thoz the segmented city and its formation from survivors of Darathmault (including some more lore on Darathmault)?

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7439 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2018 :  12:39:06  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Also, if you're open to more of a free hand and less of a research AND willing to embrace the spellplague and sundering

What happened to Nimbral? Also, some pre-history of Nimbral.

What happened to Halruaa?

What happened to Gond?

What happened to Evermeet?

There's a lot of folks focused on Maztica and Anchorome, so I wouldn't necessarily go there. On Halruaa, there's been some thoughts on the forums, but not much I've seen outside of here.



Also, on the historical front, there's not a whole lot on the time between Unther and Mulhorand's founding and the fall of Imaskar. It took centuries before either country formed, so in theory something happened with their people.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5282 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2018 :  14:44:46  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
At this stage I'm focusing on pre-Spellplague. That's not to say I won't go post-Spellplague in due course, but for now it's up to 1385 DR.

And thanks for the suggestions. I have realised that the Old Empires, the Vilhon and the Shining South (and the early history of the Dales and Dragon Coast) likely need the most love.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4120 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2018 :  15:18:55  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh yea I completely forgot about the Dragon coast, there is nothing for that entire region apart from westgate.

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Gelcur
Learned Scribe

292 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2018 :  20:25:43  Show Profile  Visit Gelcur's Homepage Send Gelcur a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I posted this a while back, I had done research to run the ruins of a small outpost. Found it odd there was so little information on Askavar.
quote:
Askavar is mentioned in 1085 Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (A Grand Tour of the Realms) p 10. It states it is located in what is now called the Wood of Sharp Teeth and that it was abandoned 800 years ago give or take, placing it around 568 DR.

It is mentioned in passing to describe pottery on page 4 of 9487 Giantcraft.

Page 62 of Champions of Valor also mentions Askavar again placing it in the Wood of Sharp Teeth, it also references those woods by what they were called then, Glimmerwood.

And finally page 30 of Dragon 251 which refers to Askalvar. Most feel that its just a typo for Askavar especially since it was also located in the Wood of Sharp Teeth.


If you are just looking for a period and we go by Grand History, 500-600 DR seems to have mostly short entries could be a good spot to fill in.

The party come to a town befallen by hysteria

Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good.

Edited by - Gelcur on 26 Sep 2018 20:34:07
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3193 Posts

Posted - 27 Sep 2018 :  00:26:58  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-The Great Rift and Underchasm.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerűn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerűn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2024 Posts

Posted - 27 Sep 2018 :  13:54:01  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The BIG hole for me is Imaskar. 99 percent of what has been said about it is supposition. We have only a few pages of lore, and its mostly about ruins or relics. Even there we are in the dark as they can't seem to settle on the Imaskarcana (how many versions are there now?) As an empire that pretty much made Faerun what it is today, it has received very little attention in print - especially when compared to Netheril or the Elven empires.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5282 Posts

Posted - 27 Sep 2018 :  16:03:02  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

The BIG hole for me is Imaskar. 99 percent of what has been said about it is supposition. We have only a few pages of lore, and its mostly about ruins or relics. Even there we are in the dark as they can't seem to settle on the Imaskarcana (how many versions are there now?) As an empire that pretty much made Faerun what it is today, it has received very little attention in print - especially when compared to Netheril or the Elven empires.



I agree, but in terms of historical detail, Imaskar received a significant amount of info in GHotR thanks to Brian James. It lacks details, but no more than Narfell or Raumathar or any of the ancient empires.

What I'm after is suggestions for places/locations or events that are lacking in historical detail, not necessarily places that you want more info on generally.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2024 Posts

Posted - 27 Sep 2018 :  17:36:17  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My answer would still be the same. The histories of those empires each have a couple of events spread out over thousands of years. Big highlights but no depth. Would be like having a history of western civilizations that mentioned the formation of Greece, then the rise and fall of Rome, the dark ages, the renaissance, Columbus, The World Wars and the Atom Bomb.

That's about all the historical detail we have on the civilizations of the Realms, and lacking is about the best description I can think of.
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2024 Posts

Posted - 27 Sep 2018 :  17:37:40  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As far as areas that need more love - the lost island nations Lantan and Nimbral are similarly lacking any detail.
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7439 Posts

Posted - 27 Sep 2018 :  23:20:02  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

The BIG hole for me is Imaskar. 99 percent of what has been said about it is supposition. We have only a few pages of lore, and its mostly about ruins or relics. Even there we are in the dark as they can't seem to settle on the Imaskarcana (how many versions are there now?) As an empire that pretty much made Faerun what it is today, it has received very little attention in print - especially when compared to Netheril or the Elven empires.



I agree, but in terms of historical detail, Imaskar received a significant amount of info in GHotR thanks to Brian James. It lacks details, but no more than Narfell or Raumathar or any of the ancient empires.

What I'm after is suggestions for places/locations or events that are lacking in historical detail, not necessarily places that you want more info on generally.

-- George Krashos



I'd agree. That's exactly why I held off from saying Narfell and Raumathar. I'd love to have more detail on their early history, what was going on in "the Lakes of Shemen" area, etc... but you were specifically saying places with a dearth of lore.

I honestly can't think of much lore at all on Halruaa other than "its founded by Netherese" then "some left to go to Nimbral" then "they fought with Dambrath" then "the red wizards broke away" then "they fought with the Crintri in Dambrath" (oh, and apparently the Halruaans must have either bred with or subjugated the Lapal tribes that were in Halruaa?)… but maybe the last 150 years or so sees a little more info. There's a lot of "this Halruaan was over in X country and did something" though, and that could all be used to tie back to create some history in Halruaa itself. It could be interesting to perhaps see a history of the rulers of Halruaa, maybe prominent council members, maybe something on mage family lines (because Halruaa seems very much a "magic in the blood" place where people might even set up marriages based on perceived magic potential) etc...

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7439 Posts

Posted - 27 Sep 2018 :  23:22:11  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

As far as areas that need more love - the lost island nations Lantan and Nimbral are similarly lacking any detail.



Whoops, and you just made me realize.... I said "what happened to Gond" above and my brain was thinking Lantan...

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1112 Posts

Posted - 29 Sep 2018 :  20:04:35  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would like to see you update your High History of Impiltur or your History of the North to the current year (1491+), but if you don't want to work on the post-Spellplague Realms yet, perhaps something about Imaskar or the Old Empires.

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

I'd agree. That's exactly why I held off from saying Narfell and Raumathar. I'd love to have more detail on their early history, what was going on in "the Lakes of Shemen" area, etc... but you were specifically saying places with a dearth of lore.

I honestly can't think of much lore at all on Halruaa other than "its founded by Netherese" then "some left to go to Nimbral" then "they fought with Dambrath" then "the red wizards broke away" then "they fought with the Crintri in Dambrath" (oh, and apparently the Halruaans must have either bred with or subjugated the Lapal tribes that were in Halruaa?)… but maybe the last 150 years or so sees a little more info. There's a lot of "this Halruaan was over in X country and did something" though, and that could all be used to tie back to create some history in Halruaa itself. It could be interesting to perhaps see a history of the rulers of Halruaa, maybe prominent council members, maybe something on mage family lines (because Halruaa seems very much a "magic in the blood" place where people might even set up marriages based on perceived magic potential) etc...



Doesn't the Shinning South sourcebook covers much of this?

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 29 Sep 2018 20:05:08
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7439 Posts

Posted - 29 Sep 2018 :  20:10:03  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

I would like to see you update your High History of Impiltur or your History of the North to the current year (1491+), but if you don't want to work on the post-Spellplague Realms yet, perhaps something about Imaskar or the Old Empires.

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

I'd agree. That's exactly why I held off from saying Narfell and Raumathar. I'd love to have more detail on their early history, what was going on in "the Lakes of Shemen" area, etc... but you were specifically saying places with a dearth of lore.

I honestly can't think of much lore at all on Halruaa other than "its founded by Netherese" then "some left to go to Nimbral" then "they fought with Dambrath" then "the red wizards broke away" then "they fought with the Crintri in Dambrath" (oh, and apparently the Halruaans must have either bred with or subjugated the Lapal tribes that were in Halruaa?)… but maybe the last 150 years or so sees a little more info. There's a lot of "this Halruaan was over in X country and did something" though, and that could all be used to tie back to create some history in Halruaa itself. It could be interesting to perhaps see a history of the rulers of Halruaa, maybe prominent council members, maybe something on mage family lines (because Halruaa seems very much a "magic in the blood" place where people might even set up marriages based on perceived magic potential) etc...



Doesn't the Shinning South sourcebook covers much of this?



It doesn't cover a lot of the history. There's big gaping swathes of history (at least it seems to me) with little said for centuries at a time. Its more focused on say the last 200 years or so, but Halruaa would have been around for more more than say 1500 years or so.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7439 Posts

Posted - 29 Sep 2018 :  20:10:35  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

I would like to see you update your High History of Impiltur or your History of the North to the current year (1491+), but if you don't want to work on the post-Spellplague Realms yet, perhaps something about Imaskar or the Old Empires.

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

I'd agree. That's exactly why I held off from saying Narfell and Raumathar. I'd love to have more detail on their early history, what was going on in "the Lakes of Shemen" area, etc... but you were specifically saying places with a dearth of lore.

I honestly can't think of much lore at all on Halruaa other than "its founded by Netherese" then "some left to go to Nimbral" then "they fought with Dambrath" then "the red wizards broke away" then "they fought with the Crintri in Dambrath" (oh, and apparently the Halruaans must have either bred with or subjugated the Lapal tribes that were in Halruaa?)… but maybe the last 150 years or so sees a little more info. There's a lot of "this Halruaan was over in X country and did something" though, and that could all be used to tie back to create some history in Halruaa itself. It could be interesting to perhaps see a history of the rulers of Halruaa, maybe prominent council members, maybe something on mage family lines (because Halruaa seems very much a "magic in the blood" place where people might even set up marriages based on perceived magic potential) etc...



Doesn't the Shinning South sourcebook covers much of this?



It doesn't cover a lot of the history. There's big gaping swathes of history (at least it seems to me) with little said for centuries at a time. Its more focused on say the last 200 years or so, but Halruaa would have been around for more more than say 1500 years or so.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Gelcur
Learned Scribe

292 Posts

Posted - 29 Sep 2018 :  20:57:40  Show Profile  Visit Gelcur's Homepage Send Gelcur a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I know you had been working on Sossal history/timeline at one point, not sure if you ever finished said work. I always liked this quote from Races of Faerun under Arctic Dwarf History, "Some claim that the Inugaakalikurit once ruled a northern empire that rivaled great Bhaerynden, but the Great Glacier long ago crushed any ruins it might have left." While I'm on dwarves I don't think there is much on them while in the Yehimal region or while under Semphar.

The party come to a town befallen by hysteria

Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good.
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore

1615 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2018 :  07:47:14  Show Profile Send The Arcanamach a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Right now anything dealing with the Dalelands is of interest to me (especially the lost dales). I've also always wanted to know more about the Shining South, Nimbral and Lantan. None of those areas seems to have much in the way of historical details.

I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5282 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2018 :  10:28:20  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gelcur

I know you had been working on Sossal history/timeline at one point, not sure if you ever finished said work. I always liked this quote from Races of Faerun under Arctic Dwarf History, "Some claim that the Inugaakalikurit once ruled a northern empire that rivaled great Bhaerynden, but the Great Glacier long ago crushed any ruins it might have left." While I'm on dwarves I don't think there is much on them while in the Yehimal region or while under Semphar.



There is a problem with the “arctic dwarves” in that the ones actually residing in the Great Glacier have a specific origin story which prevents them from having an “ancient empire”. As such, in my Realms the arctic dwarves are the forbears of the founders of Dareth while the Inugaakalikurit are descendants of a banished clan hailing from the Moonsea region (which might be the “ancient empire” referred to). Still a lot of work to do to get this sorted.

— George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4120 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2018 :  10:57:15  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Of course Dareth itself was founded by dwarves from many sources too.

That's a helluva job you've got there.

Is the exiled moonsea clan the one from myth drannor.

Also could Dareth be the first place gold and shield dwarves have mixed in any great numbers.

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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
581 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2018 :  16:08:30  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I see the arctic dwarves of the Great Glacier as just another tribe of ishikorobokuru, but living in the "west." They are described almost identically, and I like the idea of the korobokuru moving first east and then north and the ishikorobokuru moving west again. It's also somewhat simpler an explanation, which works for me. Nevertheless, I agree the Sossal region is a pretty big hole.

The Tortured Lands are also a big hole. Murghom and Semphar are bit convoluted, culturally and historically. Totally agree on Jhaamdaath.
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Archmage of Nowhere
Seeker

USA
49 Posts

Posted - 01 Oct 2018 :  17:09:35  Show Profile Send Archmage of Nowhere a Private Message  Reply with Quote
For me I find the lore of Humans to be the most lacking at the moment. We have the current nations which are all in flux but nothing of a common ancestry in the Days of Thunder. I may have missed it but Humans being considered a Creator Race in -30000 but only rising to power and civilization after the kingdoms of dwarves and elves is kinda stunning to me. I have yet to see any official lore attached to this 20000+ year gap of time.

Actually this is my current project in my home campaign
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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1112 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2018 :  20:25:06  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Now that I think about it... I know you're not working right now in post-Spellplague Realms, but when the time comes I'd would like to read more about Tymanther or Akanűl.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7439 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2018 :  17:09:22  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Archmage of Nowhere

For me I find the lore of Humans to be the most lacking at the moment. We have the current nations which are all in flux but nothing of a common ancestry in the Days of Thunder. I may have missed it but Humans being considered a Creator Race in -30000 but only rising to power and civilization after the kingdoms of dwarves and elves is kinda stunning to me. I have yet to see any official lore attached to this 20000+ year gap of time.

Actually this is my current project in my home campaign



Unless those creator race humans were sent to Abeir (where the magical mysteries they knew didn't work the same) and only a small portion of them remained on Toril.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 10 Oct 2018 17:11:51
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