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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1316 Posts

Posted - 03 Nov 2018 :  11:23:14  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The book is functional, but they make the same mistake they always do now. They make a book try to be several things at once. It's a Waterdeep source book and an adventure at the same time and it really should have been two separate books.

Just like up coming Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica should be 3 or more books, but are all mashed into one. It's doable because of 5e's effient rules, but not without soming being lost. Nothing ever reaches it potential because each book suffers from ADHD.

It's still a fun book, but there is a book on DM's Guild, called Durnan's Guide to Tavern Keeping that you will want buy to go with it to make chapter 2 more usable (Chapter 2 has a cool idea, but does little to support it).

https://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/254715
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AJA
Seeker

USA
58 Posts

Posted - 04 Nov 2018 :  01:01:48  Show Profile Send AJA a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
Slut street was named after the original meaning of the word slut, which wasn't sexual or crude. Going off memory it just meant working class woman or something.

quote:
Originally posted by Ed Greenwood
Yes, there is a "Slut Street" in Waterdeep. Yes, I put it there. And no, the word 'slut' had no sexual connotation to British and Canadian folks until the last 15 years or so (creeping American influence). It meant "a slovenly woman" or, in earlier times, "a working drudge." So this was where the poor serving wenches dwelt, shopped, and could be hired - not a Prostitutes' Row.

Now, whether or not modern American prudery should be applied to a medieval-ish fantasy setting is another matter entirely.


It'll always be Slut Street to me as well -- not in the least because I'm still happily strolling around in the 1360s -- but I can easily understand why WotC decided to change it. I doubt most of them ever heard of Ed's original line of reason.

And it's also not an unheard of thing for place/street names to change "naturally" over time. For an example, going back again to Ed, he recently gave out lore on Waterdeep's Trollskull Alley -- including the fact that it was once known instead as "Lormaundeir's Skulk";
quote:
Originally posted by Twitterin' Ed Greenwood
In 1298 DR, during the bloody collapse of the Shadow Thieves guild, some of its desperate members sought to cover their escapes from the city (that is, giving themselves time to grab all the riches they could to take with them by working with evil wizards of their acquaintance to teleport and release various monsters to maraud in the city, to keep the Watch and the Lords' agents who were hunting them busy. One mage translocated a foraging band of trolls from the Evermoors to North Ward, and they stalked this alley, then known as Lormaundeir's Skulk thanks to an unsavory local smuggler, Lormaundeir, who lived on it in the 1270s and owned many properties along it that he rented out; the tenants were initially unaware that he used secret passages built into the walls of these rented rooms to eavesdrop on them, and learn much, but learned the truth when he died in a secret passage, was found by his reek, and local tales of his haunting the passages developed. The trolls slew some citizens along the alley ere they perished in flaming spheres hurled at them by the wizard Tazhara Lurael, of Turmish (formerly one of Elminster's apprentices). She was racing about the city dealing with many released-by-Shadow-Thieves monsters, and lacked the time to "clean up" properly, so some local youths ended up playing with scorched troll bones, bowling with the skulls for some years ere they all disintegrated under the rigors of such handling. By then, the rest of the city had dubbed the way "Trollskull Alley," the name stuck, and many of the locals didn't mind -- because it transformed their reputations, from folk living with the ghost of a creepy smuggler to folk who'd survived battling fearsome monsters. So there you have it. (And yes, many locals have reported seeing the phantom apparitions of skulking Lormaundeir AND a trio of trolls proceeding silently down the alley. Not to mention the inquisitive ghost of a tressym, though no one knows where it came from).



AJA
YAFRP

Edited by - AJA on 04 Nov 2018 01:07:11
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7509 Posts

Posted - 04 Nov 2018 :  15:27:49  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor

The book is functional, but they make the same mistake they always do now. They make a book try to be several things at once. It's a Waterdeep source book and an adventure at the same time and it really should have been two separate books.

Just like up coming Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica should be 3 or more books, but are all mashed into one. It's doable because of 5e's effient rules, but not without soming being lost. Nothing ever reaches it potential because each book suffers from ADHD.

It's still a fun book, but there is a book on DM's Guild, called Durnan's Guide to Tavern Keeping that you will want buy to go with it to make chapter 2 more usable (Chapter 2 has a cool idea, but does little to support it).

https://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/254715



You call that a mistake. I call that a smart strategy for selling to customers who wouldn't buy the adventure module otherwise (myself included). Granted, at the same time, I'd love to see more length added to the book and more lore in it, even if they raise the price as a result. For me, this was a good idea with the Storm giant modules and with the one for Chult.

If they had expanded more into the lore at a vague general level, for instance maybe listing more of the noble family names with just the basic notes like what was in Waterdeep and the North, they could then come along later and produce a book like the 2e City of Splendours that delves the city more with the nobility, etc...


Speaking on THAT topic, you know what I think would be a good 5e selling strategy for another nice new book? Even though I don't adventure in the north, I'd love to see a lore book doing discovery/update to 5e for some of the major cities of the north that are often hinted at as great places to adventure. For instance, I know they did a lot for Neverwinter in 4e, but I haven't bought any of it. I'm intrigued, but not enough to go digging.

So, how and what would make a good book? Let's just play out the concept here for a minute... maybe someone will be working for the company, read the concept, improve upon it, and come out with something for us. Or maybe someone who is more fluent and loving of the north than me will produce something for DM's Guild.


Working title "Jewels of the North: Cities of Northern Faerun"


Which Cities? As much as I'd love to see more on nearly all the major and minor cities, I can see some being upset by such since it will somewhat mirror the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide.

5 major cities: Waterdeep, Neverwinter, Silverymoon, Rhymanthiin, Mithral Hall

Why do I list these 4 cities in particular? Two of these cities are "primarily human but mixed cultures" (Waterdeep & Neverwinter), Silverymoon and Rhymanthiin are both very "fey", and Mithral Hall is a prominent dwarf hold that people tend to favor over Mirabar because of the books.

In these cities, I'm picturing something like 40 pages devoted to each city (I'd say 50 each to Waterdeep, Silverymoon, and Neverwinter and 15-25 each to Mithral Hall and Rhymanthiin). They should list the vast majority of noble families, guilds, temples, major areas of learning, give a listing of NPC's, describe the laws, describe the government, describe the military, etc...

There should be something like an appendix gathering information for some of the other major cities/realms of the north. Essentially this information would be used in coordination with things like people's background choices. I'd be picturing this appendix being at least 40 pages.

This should include the following cities and/or regions: Baldur's Gate, Evereska, Elturgard, Mirabar, Luskan, and the island nations including Ruathym, as well as any smaller cities for which already published and noted names could easily be derived
Other "tables" to include:

Noble Families Table: This should be a listing by city, with simply some prominent family names and a listing of their main interests (things they provide and things they need) and any noted NPC's. I would steer away from the naming of things as Patriarchs, etc... but rather just noting that person X is "memorable" for some reason. Then there may be a notes section which might have a blurb of a sentence or two.

Major Magical and Craft Guild Roster by City Similar to the nobles list, this should list the guilds, their interests (what they provide, what they need), and any notable NPC's and any particular notes about the guild if any. This list shouldn't be exhaustive and should only be those that are major for the city (for instance, Mirabar will definitely have some organization revolving around metal working and mining)

Major Temples by City Again, not all inclusive, just the major known temples, notable NPC's, and any notes on their goals or needs.

Major Centers of Learning by City This should not just be a list of arcane schools. This should be a list of any major resources for bards (schools of music, art, poetry, etc...), arcane schools for wizards and sorcerers, libraries for sages, schools with a focus on mixing swordcraft and magic, schools for martial training alone in different styles (light weapons, heavy weapons, etc..), schools that teach mounted combat (land based or flying), etc...


Finally, as a final appendix to the books, a listing of possibly some things like new magic items, new monsters, etc...

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31591 Posts

Posted - 04 Nov 2018 :  15:38:39  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd love to see Silverymoon get more coverage. It's my second favorite place in the Realms, after Waterdeep, and it's named for my Realmsian patron deity, Lurue.

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Dargoth
Great Reader

Australia
4586 Posts

Posted - 05 Nov 2018 :  12:39:38  Show Profile  Visit Dargoth's Homepage Send Dargoth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor

The book is functional, but they make the same mistake they always do now. They make a book try to be several things at once. It's a Waterdeep source book and an adventure at the same time and it really should have been two separate books.

Just like up coming Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica should be 3 or more books, but are all mashed into one. It's doable because of 5e's effient rules, but not without soming being lost. Nothing ever reaches it potential because each book suffers from ADHD.

It's still a fun book, but there is a book on DM's Guild, called Durnan's Guide to Tavern Keeping that you will want buy to go with it to make chapter 2 more usable (Chapter 2 has a cool idea, but does little to support it).

https://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/254715



Im seriously thinking of using Down and Out in Waterdeep if I ever get to run a Dragon Heist/Dungeon of the Mad Mage campaign. Ive always liked the idea of the characters starting out "unclassed" and choosing there class as a result of how the character developed in a Zero level adventure

“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”

Emperor Sigismund

"Its good to be the King!"

Mel Brooks
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31591 Posts

Posted - 05 Nov 2018 :  16:15:57  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I found one more poorly-considered thing... The Watch badge description says if the person its given to is more than 5 feet away from it for one minute, it automatically teleports itself to the Palace.

Which means that someone with one of these badges pretty much has to keep it on his person at all time. Changing clothes? Don't get too far from your other clothes before grabbing the badge. Taking a bath? Might as well wash the badge, too! Engaging in a little nookie with the SO? Keep your shirt on!

I get what they were trying to do, but once more, the execution was poorly considered.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7509 Posts

Posted - 05 Nov 2018 :  22:34:07  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I found one more poorly-considered thing... The Watch badge description says if the person its given to is more than 5 feet away from it for one minute, it automatically teleports itself to the Palace.

Which means that someone with one of these badges pretty much has to keep it on his person at all time. Changing clothes? Don't get too far from your other clothes before grabbing the badge. Taking a bath? Might as well wash the badge, too! Engaging in a little nookie with the SO? Keep your shirt on!

I get what they were trying to do, but once more, the execution was poorly considered.



They have a special belt that they wear when showering and engaging in nookie to hold the badge... said minor magic item plays "the bare necessities" when the wearer is nude... its all detailed in the appendix... trust me... just look there....

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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