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 Waterdeep in Dragon Heist
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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1132 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2018 :  23:14:10  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
For those fortunate enough to own Dragon Heist, I have a pair of questions:

Are there any significant changes in Waterdeep?

How much of 4e stuff is recognized in Dragon Heist?

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Gelcur
Learned Scribe

296 Posts

Posted - 19 Sep 2018 :  06:04:13  Show Profile  Visit Gelcur's Homepage Send Gelcur a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm not well versed in what changed in 4E vs 5E, here are some things that I have caught so far, I'll let others judge if they are significant:

* The Dragonstaff of Ahghairon has changed hands
* The Old Xoblob Shop is no longer owned by Dandalus Ruell, and Old Xoblob has been moved from hanging over the counter into the window
* The coinage seems a bit different, especially the Gold Dragons, nice images are included, I'd chalk this up to minting changes over time
* Two new "wards" outside the city, Field Ward and Undercliff
* Laeral is the current open lord
* Tons of people are alive who probably were dead or should have died from old age, El, Duran, Mirt, Volo, Minsc and plenty of others are alive and ready to be RPed
* Manshoon clones are still around
* The walking statues are all scattered about the city and have buildings built on or around them, they are all named and described, I think that is a first
* There is a lot more "diversity" a lot of tieflings and genies and automata wandering the streets, feels almost a bit too Sigil to me

The party come to a town befallen by hysteria

Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good.
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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1132 Posts

Posted - 19 Sep 2018 :  20:26:31  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks. It seems they didn't changed too much the city from was it was from 4e. Save for the Sigil vibe. That's not from 4e.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2992 Posts

Posted - 19 Sep 2018 :  20:29:42  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Mistshore is also gone (it was burned down in Death Masks).

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31638 Posts

Posted - 20 Sep 2018 :  03:17:42  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

Mistshore is also gone (it was burned down in Death Masks).



I'll not mourn that. I always thought that concept was preposterous, at best.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Dewaint
Learned Scribe

Germany
130 Posts

Posted - 20 Sep 2018 :  11:38:59  Show Profile Send Dewaint a Private Message  Reply with Quote
May I kindly ask if there is updated lore to some of Waterdeep's noble families?

cheers

Edited by - Dewaint on 20 Sep 2018 11:39:39
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2992 Posts

Posted - 20 Sep 2018 :  14:17:14  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
According to the other thread, there isn't. The book actually seems to be light on lore, according to that review.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 20 Sep 2018 14:18:39
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sno4wy
Learned Scribe

USA
305 Posts

Posted - 20 Sep 2018 :  18:32:02  Show Profile Send sno4wy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

According to the other thread, there isn't. The book actually seems to be light on lore, according to that review.



Boo. :( First the crummy maps, and now this? I was super stoked for this product but now I'm not sure when (or if) I'll buy it...
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31638 Posts

Posted - 20 Sep 2018 :  20:05:26  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sno4wy

quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

According to the other thread, there isn't. The book actually seems to be light on lore, according to that review.



Boo. :( First the crummy maps, and now this? I was super stoked for this product but now I'm not sure when (or if) I'll buy it...



Amazon has it for considerably less than cover price.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1132 Posts

Posted - 20 Sep 2018 :  22:25:40  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

Mistshore is also gone (it was burned down in Death Masks).



Mistshore and Downshadow... sadly. I don't care about Mistshore, but Downshadow was a lost that disrupted my suspension of disbelief. Without a shady ward Waterdeep seems way too utopian and idyllic, and loses "realism" (the city is now way too perfect). Heck, even Sigil has a shady ward.

But I was already aware of this from the SCAG.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 20 Sep 2018 22:26:27
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2992 Posts

Posted - 20 Sep 2018 :  23:16:55  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Downshadow was only temporarily closed and evacuated due to a plague, but it's not been destroyed that I recall.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/
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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1132 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2018 :  02:57:04  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, the SCAG says otherwise. And, for what in seems, Downshadow its not even mentioned in Dragon Heist.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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Gelcur
Learned Scribe

296 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2018 :  20:17:19  Show Profile  Visit Gelcur's Homepage Send Gelcur a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

Well, the SCAG says otherwise. And, for what in seems, Downshadow its not even mentioned in Dragon Heist.


Yep. Not only did the plague clear the Warrens and the Downshadow out the lords declared living and digging under the city illegal without approval.

The broken ships that were the basis for Mistshore were all cleared out of the harbor. Like it never happened.

The party come to a town befallen by hysteria

Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good.
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
589 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2018 :  23:43:49  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Field Ward and Dock Ward still exist, as does the remnants of Mistshadow, not to mention the sewers and Undermountain. Plenty of places for skullduggery.
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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1132 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2018 :  00:59:17  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta

The Field Ward and Dock Ward still exist, as does the remnants of Mistshadow, not to mention the sewers and Undermountain. Plenty of places for skullduggery.



Oh, sure. It's not places for skullduggery what Waterdeep loses without Downshadow, but a sense of dark fantasy. Now, Waterdeep is just like any other fantasy city in games or literature.

Don't mind me, tho. I'm just not a fan of Tolkienesque-kind of fantasy. I'm more of a World of Warcraft-kind of fantasy guy.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 23 Sep 2018 01:00:22
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31638 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2018 :  03:26:34  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta

The Field Ward and Dock Ward still exist, as does the remnants of Mistshadow, not to mention the sewers and Undermountain. Plenty of places for skullduggery.



Oh, sure. It's not places for skullduggery what Waterdeep loses without Downshadow, but a sense of dark fantasy. Now, Waterdeep is just like any other fantasy city in games or literature.

Don't mind me, tho. I'm just not a fan of Tolkienesque-kind of fantasy. I'm more of a World of Warcraft-kind of fantasy guy.



I think that the way Waterdeep is governed rather much sets it apart from any other fantasy city.

The Realms is not a dark fantasy setting. I really don't get how it detracts from a setting for not being something it never claimed to be.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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jdb1972
Acolyte

USA
6 Posts

Posted - 27 Sep 2018 :  00:37:39  Show Profile Send jdb1972 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A few tidbits (SPOILERS), especially around the nobility:

- There are now "well over a hundred noble families." This would seem to mean a few dozen new ones have been added in the past century. However, later in the book, it mentions "seventy eight noble lines." Nice to see the Realms continuity quality remains the same.

- Houses Amcathra, Margaster, Rosznar, Phylund, Belabranta, Thann, Urmbrusk, and Sultlue are confirmed to still exist.

- House Rosznar was exiled at some point during the 100 year gap due to slave trading. It has returned to Waterdeep, but is looked down on and at least one member has a sizable chip on her shoulder because of it.

- House Gralhund is collaborating with the Zhents. Family names for all 5 members are given, though 4 of them might not survive the adventure

- One new (?) noble house is Hornraven.

Also, it seems a very small fragment of Mistshore has survived.

Corylus Thann and Jelenn Urmbrusk are Masked Lords, but evidently Laeral did as bad a job in picking new Lords as Neverember did.

Oh, and there's a submarine in Waterdeep. Well, not in the city precisely...

Edited by - jdb1972 on 27 Sep 2018 00:51:31
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sfdragon
Great Reader

2219 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2018 :  02:36:52  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
and its owned by.....?

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234
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Gelcur
Learned Scribe

296 Posts

Posted - 24 Oct 2018 :  21:20:21  Show Profile  Visit Gelcur's Homepage Send Gelcur a Private Message  Reply with Quote
(Spoilers)
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The submarine is owned by Jarlaxle.

Another change I noticed, I'm pretty sure they renamed Slut Street to Zastrow Street or Old Xoblob Shop moved. Even more interesting is that Elliott Zastrow had created a very detailed Waterdeep PDF map, you can find it hosted here.

The party come to a town befallen by hysteria

Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good.

Edited by - Gelcur on 24 Oct 2018 21:21:02
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Wenin
Senior Scribe

549 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2018 :  17:38:45  Show Profile Send Wenin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Half of the book is devoted to lore. The first half of the book is devoted to the heist, and within it there is lore to be had.


I'm not familiar with the Downshadow and can't find anything on the net about it. Is that the gnome/Halfling (smallville) section of Waterdeep? Where is it located?

Session Reports posted at RPG Geek.
Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR.
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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1132 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2018 :  18:11:39  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It was a "ward" of sorts in 4e. It was built undergroud, near Undermountain. There a couple of novels whose events happen in the place, including one named "Downshadow" by Erik Scott de Bie.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7594 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2018 :  19:10:59  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What? They renamed slut street? That was by far my favorite street in the whole city. That's just wrong goodsir..... WRONG!!!

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1132 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2018 :  23:54:43  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The name was not family-friendly, it doesn't surprise me.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31638 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2018 :  01:33:51  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

The name was not family-friendly, it doesn't surprise me.



I'm kind of surprised. TSR was a lot more sensitive about such things, and they included that name on the map. I just checked the map from Volo's Guide to Waterdeep, and it's on there.

And there're a lot of things in this book that wouldn't be considered family-friendly -- like parents selling the souls of their children to dark powers or the PCs catching Jarlaxle in a threesome.

Compared to that, what's a name on a map?

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
3031 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2018 :  13:10:25  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It will ALWAYS be SLUT Street to me!!!!!

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1316 Posts

Posted - 03 Nov 2018 :  10:56:12  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone

It will ALWAYS be SLUT Street to me!!!!!



Slut street was named after the original meaning of the word slut, which wasn't sexual or crude. Going off memory it just meant working class woman or something.
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