Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Forgotten Realms Journals
 General Forgotten Realms Chat
 Trobriand's Graveyard constructs spellcasting
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31500 Posts

Posted - 07 Aug 2018 :  20:59:41  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Squuch is a construct that can modify itself to whatever parameters it desires. It can create children in whatever form it wants. And yet despite searching and experimenting, it cannot cast spells, none of them can, because they are constructs and it says this is impossible.



Nowhere does it say this is impossible.

And simply because one known example is unable to learn to cast spells, that doesn't mean it's a global thing. Many people of a lot of races aren't capable of learning to cast spells -- that doesn't mean that their races are incapable of spellcasting.

quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

The only constructs that have ever been documented as casting spells are warforged and a few of alias' clones. Warforged arguably have souls because they can be resurrected. Alias clones do have a soul.




As I already pointed out, this was a rules artifact of 2E -- it wasn't something explicit, it was something simply never considered. Dragons couldn't be wizards, either, until TSR made special rules, late in 2E's reign, allowing such.

Races such as halflings couldn't be wizards at all, which means if there was an intended limitation, it was stated.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!

Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 07 Aug 2018 21:16:31
Go to Top of Page

Thraskir Skimper
Learned Scribe

195 Posts

Posted - 09 Aug 2018 :  00:57:31  Show Profile Send Thraskir Skimper a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

We can assume lots of complicated magic was involved as this kind of magic has not been seen before in the realms.



Since when? There are a lot of intelligent magical items in the Realms.



Is that true intelligence or artificial intelligence. Magic items are created with a pre programmed purpose and they always act to fulfil that purpose, are they capable of acting contrary to that purpose or evolving beyond it. AI for computers will soon become so sophisticated most will not be able to distinguish between that and real intelligence but it does not take away the fact that it is artificial and can be programmed.

Is squuch true intelligence or magically artificial intelligence. Is what stops the casting of spells a soul or true intelligence (and why awakened skeletons could cast spells even though they definitely do not have a soul or an anti version of one.



There is no difference between strong AI and Human type of Intelligence.

Thay Red
Go to Top of Page

Demzer
Senior Scribe

652 Posts

Posted - 09 Aug 2018 :  09:09:29  Show Profile Send Demzer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Squuch is a construct that can modify itself to whatever parameters it desires. It can create children in whatever form it wants. And yet despite searching and experimenting, it cannot cast spells, none of them can, because they are constructs and it says this is impossible.



This is incorrect, Squch can't modify himself or "create children" and actually he is not involved into any of this experimentation with magic, his drive is to conquer and for now it's overriding any curiosity to experiment with magic. Any breakthrough by the silversanns may cause him to reasses his stance and push him to be involved in the spell research and that would be a major improvement.

The silversanns are the ones restarting other constructs but it's more a feat of metallurgy and armorsmithing than actual magical creation. They are now (at the time of the writing of the boxed set) attempting something more complex by embedding magic items into one of their projects.

I've taken a look at the nitty gritty rules since I remembered from ages past and a few game experiences that in AD&D 2nd Ed a lot of things granted in later editions were way more difficult to obtain.

Case in point, the silversanns have the ability to detect magic and Int 11-12, going by the rules this means they are limited to 2-3 languages and have a chance to learn a new spell from a scroll or a spellbook of 45-50%. This means that, even if they can detect the magic of a scroll or spellbook they lack the means to properly identify and read the actual contents and even in the offchance of a very clear spellbook written in common for a dummy (which is basically impossible given the setting, as we know each mage develops his/her own style of writing encrypting his/her own spellbook to avoid easy appropriation by enemies) they have just 50% (or less) chance of actually learning the spell. After all this they need to actually be able to cast spells and, despite the fact they have appendages, they lack human hands which is a mess when trying to replicate somatic components of spells. Basically they have to come up with their own gestures using their own appendages and this is an enormous undertaking that may take them a long while.

Based on this I just see an awful lot of problems the silversanns have to work through before they can cast spells, but it's not impossible. Add to this the fact that they are not aware of the difference between divine and arcane magic and can spend up to half their time trying to do something (learning and casting divine spells) they really have no chance of succeeding at (well, unless some god decides to play with them, or Gond intervenes ...).
As soon as they get some results I can readily see Squch getting involved with its voicebox, 16 Int, 5 possible languages and 70% chance to learn new spells and speeding things up considerably.

To summarise, I see this endeavor as having to overcome a lot of problems just to start (but the silversanns are single minded and persistent enough that they can get through) and after the first successes the flood gates will open and the process will speed up quite a lot.

Edited by - Demzer on 09 Aug 2018 09:11:25
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2018 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000