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Cyrinishad
Learned Scribe

300 Posts

Posted - 20 Jul 2018 :  16:42:22  Show Profile Send Cyrinishad a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thraskir Skimper

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I have a question: is Aumoaran the most powerful Red Wizard in Thay prior to Szass Tam's takeover?

-- George Krashos



I Don't Know, not if Elminster was a Red Wizard



Some sages may insist that a name is just a name, but I think that names always contain some sort of significance... nor do I think it a mere coincidence that the name Aumoaran so similar to Elminster's last name, Aumar... To me, Aumoaran sounds like a possible alias for Elminster.

To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge. -Socrates

Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. -Dr. Seuss
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Thraskir Skimper
Learned Scribe

200 Posts

Posted - 21 Jul 2018 :  04:24:08  Show Profile Send Thraskir Skimper a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Unless you meant Amaunator then Maybe but then Amaunator wasn't a Red Wizard.

Thay Red
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5336 Posts

Posted - 21 Jul 2018 :  11:14:02  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah I meant Amaunator. My bad.

ó George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7582 Posts

Posted - 21 Jul 2018 :  13:09:45  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thraskir Skimper

Who is Krampus

Krampus is either a version of or perhaps brother of St. Nick who operates outside of Thay. St. Nick is a Demi God or Lower plane denizen.





Sheesh, the disinformation in this thread is just horrid.

From the Tome of Blasdvian the Truthful, Nimbraii wizard at large

St. Nick is a druid/wizard mystic theurge with a fondness for reindeers and snow golems. He comes from Sossal. He lives in a community of snow elves and tinker gnomes known as the village of Saen'Taa. He's well known for his fondness for rum mixed with a concoction of reindeer milk, sugar, and penguin eggs, Crismus Cheer being his favorite brand, which often leaves him red nosed and rosy cheeked. He's especially noted for magically breeding reindeer to asperii, many of which he awakens. Its said he often shares his Crismus Cheer with his favorite animal companion, Rudolph, and its said that one bad batch left Rudolph with a strangely glowing red nose.

Krampus is a creation from a mirror of opposition created by the avatar of Auril from the reflection of a large chunk of ice during the time of troubles. She created it facing the village of Saen'Taa, causing a horde of redcaps, black skinned and black haired elves, and Krampus to form and charge the village. Luckily the villages mythal protect them from the invaders, transporting them to Toril's southern pole. In a strange twist of magic as a result of the time of troubles, Krampus and the other creations of this mirror of opposition turned sentient.

However, the giant mirror of opposition created on a glacier was not done after a single use. In fact, it appeared to function multiple times per day, resulting in multiple hordes appearing, assaulting the village of Saen'Taa and being transported to the south pole. This was quickly draining the mythal over the village of Saen'Taa of all its power, forming up somewhere around 143 such assaults. Finally, St. Nick was able to call in upon the aid of a Scarlet Sorcerer, a fire genasi calling himself the "Heat Miser", and this sorcerer destroyed the ice mirror of opposition, but not before it created his own counter, one of the only known "frost genasi, which took to calling himself "Snow Miser".

As a result of this creation of Auril's, there is now a community of Krampii, black elves, and redcaps at the south pole who openly plot to destroy the good name of St. Nick. Its said that some have opened trade negotiations with the arcane in the Wu Pi Te Shao mountains facility known as "The Dock". As a result, many Krampii have sleighs with rudders of propulsion attached. However, many of these sleighs are instead being pulled by animate skeletons of reindeer, elk, moose, polar bears, walruses, killer whales, and even narwhals. These skeletal animals have some kind of cheap knockoff to rudders of propulsion mounted to their spines. Its said the arcane sold these items to get rid of them as they were an embarrassment and periodically failed. However the Krampii use eight animals at any time with their sleigh, such that if one suddenly loses the ability to fly for a few moments it can be carried by its brothers.


Its further thought that a Tsunami of Wa was closing upon Nimbral at one point, over some confusion on their interactions with a Kara-Turan dragonship. As the Knights of the Flying Hunt rode out to deal with the interlopers, they were surprised to see dozens of the Krampii, as well as black elves and red caps mounted upon skeletal mounts. Its said that they were upset with the Arcane for giving them a bad trade deal. Its also said that the Arcane wouldn't budge on their price for a true helm, and the Krampii decided to simply acquire one by other means. Thus, they seized the tsunami and proceeded to explore realmspace. Its said that they soon came across the planet Anadia, near to the sun, where they encountered a strange, black skinned halfling race which were able to survive in a hazardous environment and were infatuated with the idea of water. The Krampii transported an entire colony of these Anadian halflings to Toril, under the premise that they could have as much water as they wanted. Over the past century these Anadian halflings have flourished in the arctic wastelands, having brought with them special "sunstones" from Anadia which have melted away much of the surrounding ice to reveal the earth below. With the help of the Krampii transporting them to other areas of Toril for trade purposes, these halflings, have acquired many herd beasts to bring to their new homeland, leaving behind suddenly dead villages in their wake.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 21 Jul 2018 14:08:31
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Thraskir Skimper
Learned Scribe

200 Posts

Posted - 22 Jul 2018 :  00:52:50  Show Profile Send Thraskir Skimper a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Looks like I haven't posted it here. Maybe I emailed it to Alaundo?

Anyhow I wasn't really thinking of your Druid as much as Santa the Red Wizard or ex Red Wizard.

Santa The Red

Ex-Wizard of Thay

Based in the northern reaches

Divination specialist

Common Saying: Santa, He knows when you are sleeping,
He knows when you are awake.
He knows when you have been bad or good
so be loyal to Thay, for your own sake.

Santa has a work camp in the icy North there he crafts multiple items used as a basis for magic items for sale and trade. Once a year Santa seeks out traitors spies and fools and sweeps down and captures them back carrying back to his work shop.

Santa commands a Sleigh with an extradimensional holding prison, it is shaped like a large sack.

The Sleigh can cross any kind of terrain and can fly long distances very fast, able to circle the world in a single hour.

For those that have been good, to Thay, Santa leaves prize magic items, wrapped in woven hair from his slaves. Often tied with a solid gold ribbon. 2 gpv. The hair packing can only be opened on the eve of Thay Mass the Solstice of Winter the longest coldest day of the North. Such gifts only appear to those who honor him with with a small or large decorated evergreen tree or any other tree decorated and wrapped in silver ribbon and decorations. It is topped with a shining orb of magic, a knot, some say an Eye of Santa. It is said that especially loyal Red Wizard Apprentice can receive their first Red Robe this way. Gifts or Presents can be anything. A wanted Staff or a Flying Carpet, a Young Mage may receive a first spell book or an Elder Wizard a potion of youth.

Those who scoff either hide away on Thay Mass or sometimes they just are not there in the morning. Some stories tell of Spies and Rogue Wizards carried off into the night by green clad flying elves. Vampiric Elves with Eagle Taloned Legs and feathered Wings of green with a velvet texture. They are said to have sickly sweet smiles and constantly be laughing even when sinking their talons into a future slaves shoulders and carrying them away into the night. The Screams of the damned can be heard throughout the night.

Those who honor Santa if deemed to be lacking are given cursed magical items or just a small pouch of Diamonds.

Presents for the faithful can be received at other times of great need a healing potion or a ring of teleport, to Santa's Workshop. One might need to serve in a Magical role till the next Thay Mass But the honor of returning to Thay alive, rescued with a New Staff of Santa and a pouch full of diamonds is well worth it, to most.

Santa is deemed to be an immortal Demigod or Demon Lord. He trades slaves and souls with the Demon Princes of the Abyss. He rides in a Red Flying Sleigh with a Large screaming squirming sack pulled by 12 Magically flying Antlered Sharp Demonic Night Mares. One is noted to be especially evil and dangerous as noted by his glowing Red Nose, Eyes and 6 inch long teeth. Known to eat small children often playing a gruesome game where they toss the child amoung the antlers between the other "Reign Deer" in a fearsome game of catch.

Santa appears to be a 7 foot jolly Red Wizard of Thay in Red Robes trimmed in Silver. Immune to Ageing, Cold, Heat and Fire, lightning and Sonic effects and ignores poisonous gases and sometimes seen drinking either a green Acid or Goblet of Blood. These as well as sliced Heart and Liver organs cooked are often left for him on Thay Mass. Whether he eats them or the "Deer" is anyones guess. Few have seen him as all who do have to save vs Death or die on the spot their soul taken by Santa for trading. Saved vs Death at DC 27. Those who save or are immune can have a brief conversation with Santa and if impressed Santa may 75% chance leave an extra Present 25% 2d10 Diamonds 90% small 50gpv, 5% medium small 300 GPV, 4% 1,000gpv or 1% chance 5,000 gpv diamonds. For those He likes he will recruit, no chance of refusal, for a years service; bestowing another level of experience, 30 years of age reduction and a Set of Santa Robes while he skips a year and goes on Holiday to one of the Lower planes.

Often after they are returned these Red Wizards will don their Robes and go to various Thay Towns Cities and Enclaves where they will be greeted to curry extra favour through a gift of Items Slaves or Souls. The Items are kept by the Lesser Santa's, the slaves are put to work cutting trees and selling trees and spinning Silver Ribbon. Souls are transfered to Santa through unknown means.

Staff of Santa, This 7 foot Staff is topped in a Gold Star that shines up to 120 feet of light in every direction. This is equal to Sunlight in Strength and will heat any area by 10 degree Celcius 18F over ambient. Cast one 3rd Level Fire, Lightning and Acid based spell 4th Level Sonic and Cold or Ice spell once each per day. The Owner does not age and has DR 1/-. It also acts as a broom of flying twice per night during the winter season for 1 hour duration.

Robes of Santa, These grant Fire, Ice, Electrical, Sonic and acid DR 15 and Regeneration of 1hp/ round The wearer is able to teleport no error once per night in winter and can walk on any surface including water as if it is dry ground. Each hip pocket is also a bag of holding 100 pounds. Any Souls in a bottle or container placed in one of these pockets automatically is teleported to Santa, the Big Guy.

Elves of Santa, LE 10 th level Fighter, S15 D15 CN16 Int9 Wis6 Chr10, Hitpoints 10d10+45. (55-145) AC 25. They appear to be wood elves with red curled boots wearing green felt feathered suits. They can walk as a forest elf even in deep snow as if it is dry ground. They can unfurl their wings and fly at 30 mph carrying up to 300 lbs in a clawed foot with a grasp strength of 25. When Flying their claws come out. They smile all the time and will snicker and laugh if talked to. They obey Santa without question and may come to lesser Santa's aid once per day (24hrs) 50% chance of Summoning plus 25% if at night and further 25% if in winter. They themselves may summon another 100% chance at will after one turn, once per day. Santa may summon any number at will. (up to 10,000). Elves will stay for One day for lesser Santas Unlimited for Santa himself.

Santa is a Seven foot ageless old Red Wizard. White Beard and hair, he wears Red Robes and carries a Huge Brown Sack of Holding. Santa has access to any non artifact magic item at will and is able to cast any elemental spell once per round. Santa's Stats are AC33, HP666, S30 D30 CN30 IN40 WS20 CH30. Immune to Death, Elemental effects, Age, Fear and cannot be held against his will. DR 30/- vs physical attacks. Santa is Evil or perhaps Neutral of unknown specific alignment. He is always a happy Jolly fellow. He will laugh off most attacks and only fight back if he has to. If he ever does die he will teleport back to his Workshop pocket dimension and reform next winter.

Happy Thay Mass best hope your plans for betrayal are not discovered or it may be your last.








Thay Red

Edited by - Thraskir Skimper on 22 Jul 2018 00:53:29
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7582 Posts

Posted - 22 Jul 2018 :  02:31:51  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
cute idea. Its good to see humor sometimes. It also makes me think it would be interesting to layout some traditional Thayan holidays and how they're actually conducted (I don't see there being one like you describe, as people tend to try to think of themselves as "good" or "noble" to some degree, even if they aren't).

One issue I see in the above is the idea that "apprentices get their first red robes". Granted, in 3rd edition you could become a "red wizard" by 6th level (however, you can't run your own circle until 10th level... and I personally don't consider someone a red wizard until they can run a circle), but in most other editions you couldn't gain the title until at least 9th level. Given also that all red wizards are both nobles and judge/jury, keeping it at 9th/10th level is where I'd put the title. The red robes are meant to inspire fear, and putting them on individuals less able to defend themselves lessens this fear. This of course means that the picture people have of apprentices running around in red robes all over Thay shouldn't be the case. Its also why I picture apprentices having a title of "bloodcowl" as I see them running around instead in robes dyed in blood (literally boiled in blood over a low heat for hours to make it soak in well and then an alchemical fixative applied, then slowly baking the cloth over a low level heat while the cloth hangs from multiple cloth lines inside of small warehouses filled with aromatic incenses to help cover the smell), leaving it a deeper browner red, whereas the red wizards have the more crimson/fiery/silky red robes. This method is problematic and tedious, raising the cost of this blood dyed cloth, but its also considered traditional by many red wizards, who consider the change in price a mere pittance. Having blood dyed cloth is also considered useful by the red wizards, as some consider it "lucky" or have even written up way to use torn off portions of cloth are replacement material components for some necromantic effects. Of course, some merchants have been found to be selling cheaper knockoffs of "blood dyed cloth" that were dyed using simpler methods, but such individuals, if uncovered, meet very nasty ends (usually at the hands oddly enough of followers of Kossuth, who often are the ones boiling and baking the cloth).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Thraskir Skimper
Learned Scribe

200 Posts

Posted - 22 Jul 2018 :  08:17:08  Show Profile Send Thraskir Skimper a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There are ranks of Red Wizards, There are prestige classes and there are schooled Red Wizards.

You don't know the holidays? I'll dig up a list of them.

Not all Red Wizards are Nobles, some aren't even Mulan.

Day / Dates

Details

Deity

Worshippers

Midsummer

Revels of destruction and rudeness

Beshaba

Thayans

Shieldmeet

Revels of destruction and rudeness

Beshaba

Thayans

Each Midwinter night

Unveiling, sacrifices

Gargauth

Thayans

Eve of the Feast of the Moon

Personal sacrifices made by clerics as they renew their contracts

Gargauth

Thayans

Twelve days after Greengrass

Called Ippensheir, time of revelry and showing inventions

Gond

Any

11 Eleint

Penultimate Thunder, feasts

Hoar

Slaves

11 Marpenoth

Impending Doom, daylong ceremonies with drums, oaths, purification

Hoar

Slaves

Last night of the year

Night of Another Year, reading of the names of the dead from the year, then rest

Jergal

Thayans

Shieldmeet

Clerics recount deeds of the dead

Kelemvor

Slaves

Feast of the Moon

Clerics recount deeds of the dead

Kelemvor

Slaves

Midsummer morn

Clerics perform Song of Dawn

Lathander

Slaves

Morns of vernal and autumn equinoxes

Clerics perform Song of Dawn

Lathander

Slaves

Highharvestide

Hunt before, invite even non-worshippers to feast, pledge to provide for the needy in winter

Malar

Thayans

High Hunt each season

Hunt a humanoid or slave who can win freedom by surviving a day and night

Malar

Thayans

15 Marpenoth

Ascension of current Mystra

Mystra

Slaves

Midsummer

Day of new pacts

Oghma

Thayans

Shieldmeet

Day of new pacts

Oghma

Thayans

Each Midwinter day

Retreat, clergy assemble to recount campaigns

Red Knight

Thayans

1 Tarsakh

Queen's Gambit, feasting and games

Red Knight

Thayans

25 Nightal

A celebration of dark side of wealth and pleasure

Samora

Thayans

Shieldmeet

Conjuring of the Second Moon, chant that summons female planetars to serve clergy for a night

Selune

Slaves

Mystery of the Night

Once a year, each cleric fly into air to commune with Selune

Selune

Slaves

Festival of the Moon

Rising of the Dark, service over a live sacrifice

Shar

Thayans

15 Tarsakh

Windride, clerics assume gaseous form or wind walk, set down in someplace new

Shaundakul

Slaves

Greengrass

Frolicking

Sune

Slaves

Midsummer

Frolicking

Sune

Slaves

Grand Revel

Once a month, gathering for dancing, music, poetry

Sune

Slaves

Every 12 days

Festivals to offer prayers, drums, chants

Talona

Thayans

Fast of the Moon

Honoring the dead

Tempus

Thayans

Once a tenday

Must shed blood

Tempus

Thayans

15 Hammer

Cold Counting Comfort, honors accounting

Waukeen

Thayans

20 Aluturiak

Great Weave, honors textiles

Waukeen

Thayans

30 Ches

High Coin, honors wealth

Waukeen

Thayans

10 Tarsakh

Spheres, honors generosity

Waukeen

Thayans

12 Mirtul

Sammardach, honors benefactors

Waukeen

Thayans

21 Kythorn

Brightbuckle, honors finery

Waukeen

Thayans

3-5 Flamerule

Sornyn, honors deal-making

Waukeen

Thayans

17 Eleasis

Huldark, honors bounty

Waukeen

Thayans

7 Eleint

Spryndalstar, honors magic

Waukeen

Thayans

1 Marpenoth

Marthoon, honors guards

Waukeen

Thayans

10 Uktar

Tehennteahan, honors crafts

Waukeen

Thayans

25 Nightal

Orbar, "a solemn remembrance" of the dark side of wealth

Waukeen

Thayans


Thay Red
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7582 Posts

Posted - 22 Jul 2018 :  14:00:03  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thraskir Skimper

There are ranks of Red Wizards, There are prestige classes and there are schooled Red Wizards.

You don't know the holidays? I'll dig up a list of them.

Not all Red Wizards are Nobles, some aren't even Mulan.



Again, while I love the roleplay, you may want to read more about the people that you propose to be an authority for. You're thinking of nobility in the same way that's presented in nearly every other feudal society where its handed down from one generation to the next. Thay is NOT that way. A red wizard ennobles his children, but not his grandchildren. It is incumbent upon his children to EITHER become a tharchion/autharch (or presumably an enclave leader, Khazark, a term which came later) OR a red wizard. Note that I stress here, red wizard... not just any wizard in Thay. Thus, the nobile families of Thay change as red wizards come and go. They do at least provide nobility for their immediate families, but then its on them to KEEP the family noble for future generations.

In fact, from this, if most red wizards don't become red wizards until say their mid twenties to early 30's, they may already have children who are nearing teenage years by the time they gain their own nobility. Thus, "grandfather" may have be in 50's/60's and have been a red wizard half his life, with his two sons having become "ennobled" between ten and 15 years old. Then, the 1st son becomes a red wizard at 28 and ennobles his 8 year old daughter and 10 year old son. The 2nd son however becomes a merchant and tries to become a Khazark, but he doesn't gain the leadership, and thus his children are never ennobled.
From Dreams of the Red Wizards

There are several noble families in Thay and, as a sign of the possible upward mobility in Thayvian society, new noble families are being started all the time.

In general, anyone appointed to the position of Tharchion (see Politics) or Autharch is automatically noble, and his immediate family (spouse[s], children) is also ennobled. Any other family
members including siblings are not ennobled, but, since nepotism is standard in Thay, can expect to become nobility soon.

Red Wizards are also automatically nobles, and they ennoble their immediate families as well.

If the children of a Tharchion do not become Tharchions or Autharches themselves, or children of Red Wizards do not become wizards, they are still nobility.
Once a Thayvian becomes a noble, it is almost impossible to take that status away from his family. Only the unanimous decision of the Zulkirs can remove the status of nobility; this is usually done by outlawing the family, arresting all accessible members, and turning the survivors of the arresting process into slaves.

It is not necessary to get all the Zulkirs upset with you to have a downward change in fortunes. Noble families also disappear because of the backstabbing politics of Thay. A family with many sons and siblings and with tentacles of power everywhere in the country can vanish overnight if the right collection of enemies decide the family is getting too powerful for the enemies#146; good.


Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 22 Jul 2018 15:14:50
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7582 Posts

Posted - 22 Jul 2018 :  17:19:09  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
On the idea of believable holidays that a sovereign nation like Thay might hold to, I'd look back at America, because the two nations are very similar in ways (I don't want to go into a comparison of America and Thay, other than to say we are becoming very factionalized and we were both founded on the idea of revolts for freedom).

So, with that being said

Freedom's Founding - This is a day to celebrate the revolt that led to the Priador being freed from Mulhorandi control. This is specifically a day of NON religious celebration. Temples are not visited unless needed desperately, EXCEPT for the church of Kossuth. The Church of Kossuth is heavily involved with this celebration, as they were involved with the freeing of Thay. In preparation for this day, the Kossuthan priests are known to use the raw alchemical substances used to extract bombard oil, along with simple sugars and manure, to make a low ignition explosive (for game purposes, this is similar to gunpowder but much weaker). This substance is then wrapped in bits of cotton and paper previously used for scrolls that have already been used. Given the number of scrolls that apprentice red wizards are forced to create in order to learn the craft, and the fact that a given scroll can make hundreds of small explosives, there is no shortage of this raw material. These wrapped explosives are then attached to small sticks of wood. Finally, a ritual is enacted over batches of these explosives which awakens some of the latent magic left in the scrolls, creating a mild pyrotechnic and illusory effect which is enacted with the remains of the scroll are destroyed. When they burst, they typically create short term illusory effects such as a symbol for a school of magic, a well known magical rune, an image of Kossuth's holy symbol, or even simple multi-colored sparks in simple shapes, etc... Some of these explosives however are imbued with programmed illusions which play out full scenes in the night sky through the bursting of multiple explosions in order. These explosives are known as Scroll Bursts and by order of the Zulkirs are a controlled substance and not sold outside of Thay.
This is also a day of great feasting, particularly in the form of charcoal roasted meats and vegetables, with the lay worshippers of Kossuth performing this barbequing splendor. In particular, small wooden skewers upon which small bits of questionably-sourced meat and locally grown produce are shared amongst the lower class populace. The richer commoners and nobles typically go for full pieces of chicken, beef, pork, goat, lamb, horse, duck, turkey, etc... and often hire entertainers such as fire dancers and gladiators to entertain visitors.
However, this day is not all about fire and Kossuth, and it is something of a wizard's holiday. Most apprentices are given this day off, so that they may use their talents to visit and impress their families and neighbors. It is a day to celebrate magical research, and thus wizards are expected to show off any new spells they've learned, whether they are well known to others or entirely new inventions of their own making. Many of them are expected to give away presents of magic freely to others, most of these being of minor make and value less than 10 gold each. Such things as a wand which can start a fire once a day without the need for lots of kindling, a broom which can be activated to sweep for ten minutes per day, a chamber pot which can float itself to a point within 200 feet and empty and clean itself, a key-knob-lock set which can float itself on command to open a door while the owner is carrying packages, etc... These items are often given away in the form of a lottery, in which commoners write their name on a piece of paper and place them into a special brazier with burning green fire. Upon command, these braziers release a name, and the lucky individual wins a prize.

Zulkirate's Day - This is a day to celebrate the founding of the Zulkirate and the formation of the modern Thayan government. This day is celebrated more by the Mulan nobility than the commoners within Thay. However, typically this is a day of rest and relaxation for the commoners in Thay, with the schools of magic providing free food to any commoners that show up at the gates of their school. Of course, these foods are prepared by slaves working with apprentices using unseen servants and animated objects which scoop food onto plates of anyone that shows up before the dish. While foods are free, alcoholic beverages are not, and many red wizards make up the majority of their expenses spent on this day by charging a small upcharge on simple ales and stronger spirits. In addition, local bards are often hired to distract the commoners with music and dancing.
The Mulan populace spends less time eating on this day and more time being entertained. The presentation of plays revolving around various fictional plots and historical stories are common. These plays always feature prominent use of magic, more often than not with illusion, but sometimes with spell effects of protection placed upon the audience and actual effects used. Actual fiend summonings (and subsequent slayings), use of undead, and evocation effects are not unheard of. Transmutation effects on slaves to create "monsters" are also not unheard of. At least one play reenacting the Council of the Black Star, portrayed in as positive of a light as the Zulkirate wants, is reenacted in every major Thayan town every year. However, these plays are not universal, and the school of magic most strong in a given area tends to have the Zulkir of their school take on more of a leading role in this decision making. The truth behind this story is little known and not well documented.
Gladiatorial combats against convicted felons of some combat skill are also common, with the dead typically being given to the school of necromancy for experimentation. Those that survive are typically given the choice of slavery, continued life as a gladiator, or submitting to becoming a Thayan Knight, an act which makes them incapable of resisting the mind control magics of their masters without magical aid. It is also commonly used as a day for mage duels between members of different schools of magic to be held for the entertainment of others, sometimes to the death.


Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 22 Jul 2018 17:40:32
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7582 Posts

Posted - 22 Jul 2018 :  18:18:10  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
These next two holidays I see fitting my personal campaigns, but not necessarily other people's

First, Day of Flame's Betrayal, which celebrates the victory in the Salamander War. While some would think that this holiday would be frowned upon by the church of Kossuth, they readily support it due to its portrayal of Kossuth as a savior to Thay. This celebration typically involves shows summoning of salamanders and forcing them to fight to the death against undead, soldiers and red wizards of obviously superior skill. Its said that the salamanders summoned are drawn by name of those who have upset Kossuth himself and are provided by the church. Similarly, efreeti are also summoned, with the names again provided by the Church of Kossuth, and similar to the lottery on Zulkirate's Day, the names of commoners are released from a flaming brazier. At least three individuals are chosen each year in every major city throughout the country. These random individuals are given the choice of asking a boon of a Zulkir, or receiving a wish from the efreeti. This celebration is a celebration which encourages the other major temples of Thay to participate, with the local Tharchion or Autharch providing funding to the various temples so that they can cover expenses used to attract the masses. Each temple tries to outdo the others in order to attract converts. Within modern day Thay, this celebration has been banned. It is still celebrated, oddly enough in the United Tharchs of Toril, despite the fact that they do not occupy the Priador.

Second, Treason's Reward, This is a day ONLY celebrated in modern Thay and instituted by Szass Tam to celebrate the day when the "treasonous Zulkirs" were routed out of Bezantur. It is not particularly popular and generally only celebrated by those red wizards in favor of Szass Tam's rulership. In fact, some rebel groups specifically use this day to meet up and plot against the lich.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 22 Jul 2018 18:19:55
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Thraskir Skimper
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Posted - 24 Jul 2018 :  17:30:54  Show Profile Send Thraskir Skimper a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thay doesn't restrict religions except Mulhorandi, Mystra or Velsharoon and most of these have been taken care of.

Thay is a very open restriction free society. Regardless of what you may have read, heard or been told.

Sure elders are often walked off to or buried in the undead grave yards, to be risen up for eternal Thayan service. It is quite the honour.

Religious freedom, outside Thaymount freedom of movement, changing profession, even adventuring in the restricted Tharks is encouraged. Racial freedom exists, while some think all Red Wizards are Mulani nobles, or even funnier that all nobles are based upon Red Wizards families. :)

Drow, Orcs, Gnolls, Orges and Trolls, Goblins and a few humans... Ha that is funny as well. Sure the other races do exist freely in Thay, often employed as guards or consultants. Drow are common in areas but so are all other Elves, Dwarves and Halflings. Gnomes of all types and they are not all Slaves. Sure some areas have Devils or Demons but they are almost always bound in service of a Red Wizard.

Red Wizards are all Specialist wizards and politically in command in Thay. They don't all work together and other than Arch Zulkir Tam no one commands all the others, even Zulkir Tam is mostly interested in Thay stability not in the affairs of 1000's of wizards.

Not all Wizards are Red Wizards in Thay. Red Wizards are generally Human or mostly so. A large number are Mulan but not all. Nobles not Red Wizards are concerned with who is or isn't a Mulani or how much of one. The notion that only Red Wizards are nobles is hilarious.

Politics in Thay.

Arch Zulkir Tam
Zulkirs of houses outside necromancy
The various other titles in the hierarchy, including Thraskir.

Thraskir are judges or investigators, it depends on Alignment to an extent. Not all Judges are Lawful nor Evil.
Nor are all Red Wizards.

There are other powers who may or may not be Red Wizards. They can order even to a certain extent Red Wizards around as long as their authority represents a Zulkir's.

Nobles who are not Red Wizards have authority usually through commerce or traditional power or force of will.

Commoners are free roam most lower levels of Thay. The Keeps of Red Wizards are usually off limits but lots of Red wizards live outside the seats of power.

Outside Thay enclaves exist but most of you understand them already.

In Thay Slaves are the lowest order but usually are well treated. Sure some get used up but even dead slaves from mining operations get "blessed" into undead ranks and armies.

Some Slaves are workers, some are intellectually involved in Thay, some are gardeners, yes there are gardens in Thay, some domestic servants, child rearing, wait staff etc... They are generally well treated. There are different kinds of slaves. Enemies captured tend to get used up. Civilians captured tend to have better lives, economic slaves are often those who pay off debt with service of a set duration, they have more rights and typically are not mistreated. Nobles who screw up can find themselves as slaves, it is typically a welfare like effect and as fortunes change, their lot in life can change too. Some beloved slaves are freed or earn their freedom. Then there are those who don't accept their captivity and they are weeded out with the ill and weak on the Slave Way march. But they keep the Guards and various mercenaries sharp.

Clerics and non red wizards are not uncommon. Clerics have reverence by many but will not be high ranking Red Wizards. All Red Wizards whether through a prestige class introduction, or working up through schools and or colleges. Even then Red Wizards are a political calling as well as an advancement in power. Most junior Red Wizards, novices, choose to be but not all. Advancement is then based on merit and orders from above.

A Red Wizard life is similar to a Clerical calling but is strictly Arcane and without dedication to a specific greater power. A Nishkir and a Draxkir are similar but different classes or ranks. Both are generally equal in influence but serve different purposes. As a Thraskir I will call upon both of their services. Draxkirs to set something up or arrange witnesses or accommodation or gathering of materials. Nishkirs to bring in someone or something or explain what something is or does. They make great bounty hunters or just hunters of things in general. Nishkirs are more action oriented. Typically the Red Wizard you end up in battle with will be a Nishkir more often than not. Novices typically are the lackeys, but it depends school or college novices fulfil this role. Prestige class Red Wizards are more the adventuring type of Novices. The Scribes are just above the Novices, the Barakirs, in rank. They tend to do scholarly duties or will join Novices or lead them on orders from Draxkirs or Nishkirs to find info on a creature or people or place or custom or even a law. Some Thraskirs spend all day studying laws. Some investigate things. Political intrigues, people or find stuff or things. (Think of it like a Judge investigator in France). We tend to root out people places or things. Being Divination based also helps in this. But all ranks are represented in all schools. All Novices are Raalkirs call them such and any other Red Wizard you don't know how to address. If they want you to know who they are they will tell you.

No one has successfully impersonated a Red Wizard of Thay. But it isn't true that only Red Wizards wear red in Thay. But if you are wearing red robes it is best that you clearly state that you are not a Red Wizard.

Wizards Marks, they exist, they are all different and most are known. But not everyone can know every Wizard Mark.

Temples most people are surprised to learn that Bane or Beshaba is not the main religion of Thay.

Beshaba is well revered and Bane is bold and present but

Kossuth is the main divinity in Thay!

Thay Red

Edited by - Thraskir Skimper on 24 Jul 2018 17:38:34
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7582 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2018 :  00:32:03  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thraskir Skimper

Thay doesn't restrict religions except Mulhorandi, Mystra or Velsharoon and most of these have been taken care of.

Thay is a very open restriction free society. Regardless of what you may have read, heard or been told.

Sure elders are often walked off to or buried in the undead grave yards, to be risen up for eternal Thayan service. It is quite the honour.

Religious freedom, outside Thaymount freedom of movement, changing profession, even adventuring in the restricted Tharks is encouraged. Racial freedom exists, while some think all Red Wizards are Mulani nobles, or even funnier that all nobles are based upon Red Wizards families. :)

Drow, Orcs, Gnolls, Orges and Trolls, Goblins and a few humans... Ha that is funny as well. Sure the other races do exist freely in Thay, often employed as guards or consultants. Drow are common in areas but so are all other Elves, Dwarves and Halflings. Gnomes of all types and they are not all Slaves. Sure some areas have Devils or Demons but they are almost always bound in service of a Red Wizard.

Red Wizards are all Specialist wizards and politically in command in Thay. They don't all work together and other than Arch Zulkir Tam no one commands all the others, even Zulkir Tam is mostly interested in Thay stability not in the affairs of 1000's of wizards.

Not all Wizards are Red Wizards in Thay. Red Wizards are generally Human or mostly so. A large number are Mulan but not all. Nobles not Red Wizards are concerned with who is or isn't a Mulani or how much of one. The notion that only Red Wizards are nobles is hilarious.

Politics in Thay.

Arch Zulkir Tam
Zulkirs of houses outside necromancy
The various other titles in the hierarchy, including Thraskir.

Thraskir are judges or investigators, it depends on Alignment to an extent. Not all Judges are Lawful nor Evil.
Nor are all Red Wizards.

There are other powers who may or may not be Red Wizards. They can order even to a certain extent Red Wizards around as long as their authority represents a Zulkir's.

Nobles who are not Red Wizards have authority usually through commerce or traditional power or force of will.

Commoners are free roam most lower levels of Thay. The Keeps of Red Wizards are usually off limits but lots of Red wizards live outside the seats of power.

Outside Thay enclaves exist but most of you understand them already.

In Thay Slaves are the lowest order but usually are well treated. Sure some get used up but even dead slaves from mining operations get "blessed" into undead ranks and armies.

Some Slaves are workers, some are intellectually involved in Thay, some are gardeners, yes there are gardens in Thay, some domestic servants, child rearing, wait staff etc... They are generally well treated. There are different kinds of slaves. Enemies captured tend to get used up. Civilians captured tend to have better lives, economic slaves are often those who pay off debt with service of a set duration, they have more rights and typically are not mistreated. Nobles who screw up can find themselves as slaves, it is typically a welfare like effect and as fortunes change, their lot in life can change too. Some beloved slaves are freed or earn their freedom. Then there are those who don't accept their captivity and they are weeded out with the ill and weak on the Slave Way march. But they keep the Guards and various mercenaries sharp.

Clerics and non red wizards are not uncommon. Clerics have reverence by many but will not be high ranking Red Wizards. All Red Wizards whether through a prestige class introduction, or working up through schools and or colleges. Even then Red Wizards are a political calling as well as an advancement in power. Most junior Red Wizards, novices, choose to be but not all. Advancement is then based on merit and orders from above.

A Red Wizard life is similar to a Clerical calling but is strictly Arcane and without dedication to a specific greater power. A Nishkir and a Draxkir are similar but different classes or ranks. Both are generally equal in influence but serve different purposes. As a Thraskir I will call upon both of their services. Draxkirs to set something up or arrange witnesses or accommodation or gathering of materials. Nishkirs to bring in someone or something or explain what something is or does. They make great bounty hunters or just hunters of things in general. Nishkirs are more action oriented. Typically the Red Wizard you end up in battle with will be a Nishkir more often than not. Novices typically are the lackeys, but it depends school or college novices fulfil this role. Prestige class Red Wizards are more the adventuring type of Novices. The Scribes are just above the Novices, the Barakirs, in rank. They tend to do scholarly duties or will join Novices or lead them on orders from Draxkirs or Nishkirs to find info on a creature or people or place or custom or even a law. Some Thraskirs spend all day studying laws. Some investigate things. Political intrigues, people or find stuff or things. (Think of it like a Judge investigator in France). We tend to root out people places or things. Being Divination based also helps in this. But all ranks are represented in all schools. All Novices are Raalkirs call them such and any other Red Wizard you don't know how to address. If they want you to know who they are they will tell you.

No one has successfully impersonated a Red Wizard of Thay. But it isn't true that only Red Wizards wear red in Thay. But if you are wearing red robes it is best that you clearly state that you are not a Red Wizard.

Wizards Marks, they exist, they are all different and most are known. But not everyone can know every Wizard Mark.

Temples most people are surprised to learn that Bane or Beshaba is not the main religion of Thay.

Beshaba is well revered and Bane is bold and present but

Kossuth is the main divinity in Thay!



I was wondering if you'd been to Kismet's site based upon your name (Thraskir). That was a title she created, much like I created the title of Aulkir for heads of some alternate magical traditions.

Slaves are NOT well treated. When you have to discuss whether its better to just let someone die versus cutting their hair, that's not good treatment of the slaves. Just sayin'

Kossuth is not the main divinity in Thay any longer. Szass Tam betrayed and killed many Kossuthan priests. He also told Bane that he would make Bane the official religion and banish all other religions. Since you keep talking about Tam as an Arch Zulkir, etc... I can only assume you're talking post the civil war.

Lol, no one has successfully impersonated a red wizard?

From the 4e Campaign setting
Burning Amruthar: Once an independent city within Thay, Amruthar bore the brunt of the landís devastation. Earthquakes splintered it, lava and mud wrecked some parts, and a rain of rock and
ash buried others. Deep chasms that formed within the city filled with molten rock that never cooled. Miraculously, the black ziggurat dedicated to Kossuth survived the ruin.

The high priest of that temple, the mummy lord Chon Vrael, maintains the place to this day and welcomes worshipers, defying the Thayan ban on deities other than Bane. Chon is a fierce enemy of Szass Tam. The priest commands a small army of fanatics and elemental creatures, including a tribe of fire giants, which helps him keep the city free of Thayan control for now. Some suspect that the Regent of Thay tolerates Burning Amruthar for his own reasons.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Thraskir Skimper
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Posted - 28 Jul 2018 :  15:04:01  Show Profile Send Thraskir Skimper a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Actually I do believe Kismet got it from else where as I found it in other places before visiting her various sites. But yes I've read her three sites, and many others.

Slaves are treated better in Thay than other places. They are not quite serfs but then serfs are not well treated either. It depends how they became slaves and what they are used for.

You are again confusing the Politics of a single Red Wizard with that of Thay as a whole.

Plus you assume to know Zulkir Tam's wishes. This is fool hardy.

As for 4e That is a little kid devolution of D'nD, best forgotten.

5e because 4e was so bad; reminds me of Basic and Expert and trying to compete with so called card games.

Advanced was the Adult game and from it developed 3.5+ with input from non Canon semi Canon sources.

Reading what a place might be gives you an opinion of a place. Maybe a glimpse of a thought of a character or an interpretation. Too many people think that everything written by a person is everything that that person thinks, rather than just an idea subject to change.

Presenting "god like" notions to know a "god" is just fool hardy or written for fools.

This is Sage 101. Not everything is true. Certainly not everything written and often there is no Valid or Invalid, true or not true. Truth doesn't affect Validity, directly.

Defying the Thayan ban should read a Thayan ban.

Finally time lines don't represent editions. You can play Advanced 1500 or 3.5 -2000 or Basic 1375.

Also 'god like' interactions are described in common folk ways, but that is methaphor used to make something not understandable, understandable by those who can't understand. Like explaining to a cave man a hand grenade as a really big rock that clips to your belt. It isn't a really big rock. 'gods' are not npc's, they don't pee, they don't eat they don't have legs...


Thay Red
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sleyvas
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USA
7582 Posts

Posted - 28 Jul 2018 :  15:57:20  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
totally agree that you should be able to play whatever edition you want for a given timeframe. For instance, I absolutely feel like specialist wizards didn't come about after the ToT. I believe they existed prior. I also figure warlocks and sorcerers to have existed prior to the ToT and thus we have to have some kind of revisionist history to a degree. I also really like the binder concept, though I've tried to blend it with the warlock rules for 5e to give the flavor of the concept without all the rules baggage that went with it.

Honestly, I like 5e, but its just missing so many rules that I find myself constantly going "man they don't have that". I flip flop between 3.5 and 5e. 3.5 has the depth I love, but it does have some things that are inherently broken mathematically. 5e has what appears to be better math, but lack of options.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 28 Jul 2018 :  19:59:31  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

I also figure warlocks and sorcerers to have existed prior to the ToT and thus we have to have some kind of revisionist history to a degree.


Officially, sorcerers did exist prior to the ToT. That was another of those "it's always been that way, but no one knew about it!" things WotC did with the advent of the 3E Realms.

I prefer them to be a new thing, since they weren't documented before, but that's not that big a quibble for me.

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Thraskir Skimper
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Posted - 29 Jul 2018 :  02:29:13  Show Profile Send Thraskir Skimper a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

I also figure warlocks and sorcerers to have existed prior to the ToT and thus we have to have some kind of revisionist history to a degree.


Officially, sorcerers did exist prior to the ToT. That was another of those "it's always been that way, but no one knew about it!" things WotC did with the advent of the 3E Realms.

I prefer them to be a new thing, since they weren't documented before, but that's not that big a quibble for me.



Do you think it could result like the Night of Madness from Lawrence Watt Evans, Suddenly having Warlocks or Sorcerers? A Something crashes and converts a bunch of people instantly into sorcerers and they go off the try and rescue whatever it is? I presume it is a 'god' or Alien or gods are aliens...

Thay Red
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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 29 Jul 2018 :  02:53:30  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My idea is to respin the return of Shade, having it result in such major disturbances to the Weave that previously unmagical races suddenly could access magic, and there were new ways to access it, as well.

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LordofBones
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837 Posts

Posted - 29 Jul 2018 :  03:30:52  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

My idea is to respin the return of Shade, having it result in such major disturbances to the Weave that previously unmagical races suddenly could access magic, and there were new ways to access it, as well.



Elf/Human arcane caster: "Those damn dorfs are takin' our JERBS!"

I'm sorry, I couldn't resist.

Edited by - LordofBones on 29 Jul 2018 04:21:34
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Thraskir Skimper
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200 Posts

Posted - 30 Jul 2018 :  23:46:38  Show Profile Send Thraskir Skimper a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Apportment School of magic offers the 9th level spell. Skycastle. It is Semi Canon.


Dragon Magazine #220.

Thay Red

Edited by - Thraskir Skimper on 30 Jul 2018 23:48:51
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Thraskir Skimper
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200 Posts

Posted - 05 Aug 2018 :  04:14:35  Show Profile Send Thraskir Skimper a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As for Slaves and Hair.

In Thay Slaves don't get to cut their own hair if they want but if an owner wants the hair cut it is cut, particularly if said owner is a Red Wizard.

Red Wizards are all wizards. Yes this is true but not all positions of authority are populated by Red Wizards, their are many positions of political power that those in power are not Red Wizards. However they usually rule with the backing of a specific Red Wizard

Not all wizards are Red Wizards. However if one can be a Red Wizard one becomes a Red Wizard even a Novice who has no real duties but still rules.

Red Wizard is a political position but also a Rank Task orientation. Not All Red Wizards are political. Thraskir or Judge or Investigator is more a task role than a political role. Also many Red Wizards are more interested in magic than politics. Power still rules but magic is more interesting.

A Thraskir isn't necessarily a lawful Mage but rather interested in or will judge a situation based upon will within the higher society.

A Red Wizard is like a member of a House of Lords or Parliament or both. They all have some say just the House Tam rules and we all agree somewhat to go along with such for now. House Tam does not tell us what to think but just brings guidance to Thay as a whole.

Yes we shave our heads, with magic, when we are not in Thay, generally. It keeps up the image we want to present to everyone else. Plus many of us are comfortable with it and it makes travel easy.

Thay Red
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