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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7582 Posts

Posted - 15 Jul 2018 :  15:44:09  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Ah yes, both take a different path to lichdom through their patrons, Talos and Orcus. But why?

-- George Krashos



Yes, I half wonder if Zhengyi hadn't been trying to perform a variation on the ritual used by Mellifleur and ascend to something resembling godhood. One of the things I've also played with is the idea that Mellifleur was from Narfell, and that he performed his accidental ritual just before Karsus' Folly. Thus, his accident knocked a lot of things into action (Karsus thinking he could become a god, the Dark Three ascending, Mystryl being stripped of her power, eventually Velsharoon ascending, and even maybe things like Kozah and Bhaelros "becoming" Talos, the Dawn Cataclysm, etc...). IF this were the case, and part of my story would have Ythazz Buvarr (former Theurgist Adept), becoming part of Narfell... perhaps he heard of Mellifleur's rise and had information on it, and he relayed some of this information (perhaps even unwittingly) to both Zhengyi and Velsharoon.


Oh, and I do take back SOME of what I said earlier. It seems Zhengyi probably became a lich just AFTER the Thayan revolt. It says that he's been a lich for NEARLY four centuries. This would be in the late 1350's and the Thayan Revolt was in 922.

Hmmm, and in perusing GHotR, I see this entry... I wonder if this might not have involved Zhengyi? Maybe it was also when he died and became a lich. Anyone know the original source of this lore?

991 DR Year of the Breaking Ice
The kingdom of Sossal [331, 1319] is rocked by a series of earthquakes. The tremors create fissures in parts of the Great Glacier, unleashing several powerful demons trapped there since the fall of Narfell. Led by their ruler Londraeth, the warriors of Sossal manage to vanquish the rampaging fiends.



Below from Throne of Bloodstone where he is presented as a 30th level magic-user, just to show he was a wizard of Thay and his rough amount of time as a lich.

The lich Zhengyi has been dead for nearly four centuries, and it shows. His almost entirely skeletal visage is concealed beneath a deep hood, made from the skull of a dragon. His robes were formerly quite splendid, but they have rotted almost entirely away. Still, their former elegance is suggested by the remnants of gold thread that still hang about Zhengyi like a frail spiderweb. The Witch-King has been a devotee of Orcus throughout his death, and also through much of the life that preceeded his demise. He is dedicated to the principles of chaos and evil, and he seeks to spread both through the realms.

To this end, he has gathered the army of undead that now faces the armies of Damara across the Ford of Goliad. Although their might is not yet great enough to carry the invasion southward, Zhengyi knows that eventually, aided by the power of his demonlord manifested on the Prime plane, his forces will be ready to sweep the armies of law and justice from the land.

Formerly one of the wizards of Thay, Zhengyi has managed to retain his animation, at least in an undead form, by the force of his evil and powerful magic. His current state has bred within him an irrational hatred of all that is alive, such that he will seek to slay life whenever and wherever he encounters it. This is why he surrounds himself with undead, or with the denizens of the Abyss#151; they do not remind him of his former, and much more enjoyable, existence. (Well, yes#151; he was chaotic evil then, too, but that doesn#146;t mean that he didn#146;t know how to have a good time!)

But Zhengyi is a cautious and methodical character#151; four centuries of undeath will teach one patience, if nothing else!

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 15 Jul 2018 15:59:28
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5336 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2018 :  08:25:30  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Hmmm, and in perusing GHotR, I see this entry... I wonder if this might not have involved Zhengyi? Maybe it was also when he died and became a lich. Anyone know the original source of this lore?

991 DR Year of the Breaking Ice
The kingdom of Sossal [331, 1319] is rocked by a series of earthquakes. The tremors create fissures in parts of the Great Glacier, unleashing several powerful demons trapped there since the fall of Narfell. Led by their ruler Londraeth, the warriors of Sossal manage to vanquish the rampaging fiends.




The source is me. I was asked to provide some Sossal events for GHotR (due to there being bugger all) and so I came up with that one. It's swinging in the breeze, so make of it what you will.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Thraskir Skimper
Learned Scribe

200 Posts

Posted - 17 Jul 2018 :  02:05:59  Show Profile Send Thraskir Skimper a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Where are the Mulan from?

The Mulan were brought to Toril from Earth.

Do all Thayan shave their hair?

Red wizards when they travel outside typically shave their heads. Inside Thay they do whatever they want.

Other Thayans typically have a shaved appearance some for expressions of faith to the Red Wizards others for ease of maintainance but it is not necessary. Slaves cut their hair but almost never shave it completely unless ordered to do so.



Thay Red

Edited by - Thraskir Skimper on 17 Jul 2018 02:14:06
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Thraskir Skimper
Learned Scribe

200 Posts

Posted - 17 Jul 2018 :  02:23:15  Show Profile Send Thraskir Skimper a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Do only Red Wizards wear red or red robes?

Only Red Wizards wear red robes, anyone else doing so is put to death instantly.

Other Thayan wear some red just not full wizards robes.

Much like hair Red Wizards do what they want so officially and for ceremony they wear red robes
they don't have too wear red robes all the time though. But The red robes are a privilege so most do.

Outside Thay it depends where and why, etc...

Thay Red

Edited by - Thraskir Skimper on 17 Jul 2018 02:24:14
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7582 Posts

Posted - 18 Jul 2018 :  03:48:07  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Hmmm, and in perusing GHotR, I see this entry... I wonder if this might not have involved Zhengyi? Maybe it was also when he died and became a lich. Anyone know the original source of this lore?

991 DR Year of the Breaking Ice
The kingdom of Sossal [331, 1319] is rocked by a series of earthquakes. The tremors create fissures in parts of the Great Glacier, unleashing several powerful demons trapped there since the fall of Narfell. Led by their ruler Londraeth, the warriors of Sossal manage to vanquish the rampaging fiends.




The source is me. I was asked to provide some Sossal events for GHotR (due to there being bugger all) and so I came up with that one. It's swinging in the breeze, so make of it what you will.

-- George Krashos



Cool, thanks George.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7582 Posts

Posted - 18 Jul 2018 :  03:54:33  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thraskir Skimper

Where are the Mulan from?

The Mulan were brought to Toril from Earth.

Do all Thayan shave their hair?

Red wizards when they travel outside typically shave their heads. Inside Thay they do whatever they want.

Other Thayans typically have a shaved appearance some for expressions of faith to the Red Wizards others for ease of maintainance but it is not necessary. Slaves cut their hair but almost never shave it completely unless ordered to do so.






Possibly on the earth thing. Possibly not.

Thayan culture eschews body hair of all sorts. Slaves aren't allowed to cut their own hair, and its by this fact that slaves in Thay are easily spotted compared to the commoners. Lauzoril is an oddity for growing hair on his scalp, but it also comes from the fact that he's not from pure Mulan stock either. Also recent trends have women growing hair that they typically have groomed such that at least some portion of the scalp is clean shaven (thus, they may have a topknot/braid, etc..)

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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LordofBones
Senior Scribe

837 Posts

Posted - 18 Jul 2018 :  04:03:23  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great, now I have this mental picture of a thriving clandestine wig market in the Thayvian black market.
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2040 Posts

Posted - 18 Jul 2018 :  04:27:59  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Of course, the market's call Locks of Lov...itar

:P
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2040 Posts

Posted - 18 Jul 2018 :  04:38:35  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

I have to go back and look, but I do not think Zhengi ever became a Zulkir. I would also keep him separate from Velsharoon as he becomes devoted to another.



Cool, someone who wants to discuss ideas. I wouldn't have Zhengyi as a Zulkir. I would have him as one of many of the mages founding the country. That's not to say I would have him weak though. I'd place him on power levels though with Velsharoon, Jorgmacdon, etc... at that time.

However, I would have Jorgmacdon, and Zhengyi as allies of a sort. I see Zhengyi as a necromancer who delved into Narfell's history. I also see Jorgmacdon as a conjurer who delved into Narfell's history. For Zhengyi though, I think there may be a blood relationship to Narfell's LONG ago line of rulers. I believe at the time of the Thayan Revolt, Zhengyi was already a lich. I would also have Zhengyi and Velsharoon as allies of a sort, in that both delved in similar magics. In fact, for both Zhengyi and Velsharoon, I wouldn't make them necromancers. I would make them generalists who multi-classed into dread necromancer under 3.5 rules. I would have the two having very similar builds, but with Zhengyi having warlock/eldritch theurge and Velsharoon delving as a binder/anima mage. The big difference between the two being Zhengyi makes a pact with Orcus, and Velsharoon makes multiple short term pacts with multiple individuals as he needs.

As long as we're talking Zhengyi as well, he was designed in the 1e era, so a lot of concepts weren't around yet. I honestly picture Zhengyi working better as like a multi-classed wizard(generalist) 3rd/ dread necromancer 1st /warlock 1st with 10 levels of ultimate magus and 10 levels of eldritch theurge and 7 levels of other stuff (maybe archmage, maybe Nar demonbinder, maybe geometer, maybe even something like nightmare spinner giving him some focus on fear and illusions).

Note, I'm picturing this build involving using levels gained in ultimate magus going to warlock to later qualify for eldritch theurge (thus his entering said class with only 1 level of warlock).
Thus at level 20 it would have been something like 3 wiz/1 dread necro/1 warlock/10 ultimate magus/5 eldritch theurge ... but with 2 "lesser levels" of ultimate magus going to warlock, 1 "lesser level of spellcasting" going to dread necro, and 7 of the levels where both go up going to wizard and dread necro both. The levels of eldritch theurge would go to wizard and warlock. Thus, at level 20 character level his spellcasting levels ..NOT.. Character level would be 15th wiz//9th dread necro/8th warlock. This is about the power level I picture him during the Thayan Revolt. By level 25, his spellcasting levels would be 20th wiz/9th dread necro/13th warlock, and this is the power level I picture him when he leaves Thay around the time of the forming of the Zulkirate. I picture him gaining about 5 to 7 more levels in the intervening 300+ years. I picture his falling out in Thay having to do with the concept of being a warlock and forming pacts with other beings for power (which the red wizards of that era would equate to similar to divine power).

In 5e, not sure how I'd build him, but it would definitely be a mix of warlock and wizard and probably using rules I have in my red book of spell strategy for multi-classing.




I can't really talk about all the different special classes - I've read them but never used them and so can't see what would work.

In the end, I think Zhengi used some kind of cheat to power - like, a Narfell version of the Telmikarra Neshyr ritual from the Last Mythal books; perhaps even binding himself directly to Orcus.

In Thay, I imagine him as something of an upstart. More arrogant but less powerful than the others. That's why he leaves - to seek his means to outmatch these rivals he searches for ancient magics he heard of in Thay - perhaps in some ancient fell Tome of Magic.

Where my wondering goes wide is how he came to Orcus and not Eltab. To my knowledge this was Orcus' first big foothold in the Realms, all older references coming from Gary's Greyhawk/generic AD&D material.
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LordofBones
Senior Scribe

837 Posts

Posted - 18 Jul 2018 :  07:14:16  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The problem is that 1e Zhengyi already outclasses every other Thayvian wizard. He was 30th level back when Tam was 24th, IIRC.

As for Velsharoon, I'd just gestalt him rather than multiclass him, or multiclass one side of the gestalt (so he'd be a pure wizard build on one side, and binder/dread necro/anima mage/whatever on the other). In Pathfinder, I'd build him with a mix of wizard, pathfinder savant, cypher mage and agent of the grave levels, netting him 9 non-wizard spells of his choice and his Int mod of necromancy spells from any list to be added to his base spell list.

Zhengyi in Pathfinder is fairly straightforward: wizard (either my own red wizard archetype or the pact wizard archetype) 20/exalted 10 of Orcus.
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7582 Posts

Posted - 18 Jul 2018 :  13:37:27  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

Great, now I have this mental picture of a thriving clandestine wig market in the Thayvian black market.



Think.... lower... I imagine there are heated debates as to the "value" of "hair down there" in Thay. Many may consider it disgusting beyond belief, and others may consider it "exotic" on a Mulan female.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7582 Posts

Posted - 18 Jul 2018 :  14:03:59  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

I have to go back and look, but I do not think Zhengi ever became a Zulkir. I would also keep him separate from Velsharoon as he becomes devoted to another.



Cool, someone who wants to discuss ideas. I wouldn't have Zhengyi as a Zulkir. I would have him as one of many of the mages founding the country. That's not to say I would have him weak though. I'd place him on power levels though with Velsharoon, Jorgmacdon, etc... at that time.

However, I would have Jorgmacdon, and Zhengyi as allies of a sort. I see Zhengyi as a necromancer who delved into Narfell's history. I also see Jorgmacdon as a conjurer who delved into Narfell's history. For Zhengyi though, I think there may be a blood relationship to Narfell's LONG ago line of rulers. I believe at the time of the Thayan Revolt, Zhengyi was already a lich. I would also have Zhengyi and Velsharoon as allies of a sort, in that both delved in similar magics. In fact, for both Zhengyi and Velsharoon, I wouldn't make them necromancers. I would make them generalists who multi-classed into dread necromancer under 3.5 rules. I would have the two having very similar builds, but with Zhengyi having warlock/eldritch theurge and Velsharoon delving as a binder/anima mage. The big difference between the two being Zhengyi makes a pact with Orcus, and Velsharoon makes multiple short term pacts with multiple individuals as he needs.

As long as we're talking Zhengyi as well, he was designed in the 1e era, so a lot of concepts weren't around yet. I honestly picture Zhengyi working better as like a multi-classed wizard(generalist) 3rd/ dread necromancer 1st /warlock 1st with 10 levels of ultimate magus and 10 levels of eldritch theurge and 7 levels of other stuff (maybe archmage, maybe Nar demonbinder, maybe geometer, maybe even something like nightmare spinner giving him some focus on fear and illusions).

Note, I'm picturing this build involving using levels gained in ultimate magus going to warlock to later qualify for eldritch theurge (thus his entering said class with only 1 level of warlock).
Thus at level 20 it would have been something like 3 wiz/1 dread necro/1 warlock/10 ultimate magus/5 eldritch theurge ... but with 2 "lesser levels" of ultimate magus going to warlock, 1 "lesser level of spellcasting" going to dread necro, and 7 of the levels where both go up going to wizard and dread necro both. The levels of eldritch theurge would go to wizard and warlock. Thus, at level 20 character level his spellcasting levels ..NOT.. Character level would be 15th wiz//9th dread necro/8th warlock. This is about the power level I picture him during the Thayan Revolt. By level 25, his spellcasting levels would be 20th wiz/9th dread necro/13th warlock, and this is the power level I picture him when he leaves Thay around the time of the forming of the Zulkirate. I picture him gaining about 5 to 7 more levels in the intervening 300+ years. I picture his falling out in Thay having to do with the concept of being a warlock and forming pacts with other beings for power (which the red wizards of that era would equate to similar to divine power).

In 5e, not sure how I'd build him, but it would definitely be a mix of warlock and wizard and probably using rules I have in my red book of spell strategy for multi-classing.




I can't really talk about all the different special classes - I've read them but never used them and so can't see what would work.

In the end, I think Zhengi used some kind of cheat to power - like, a Narfell version of the Telmikarra Neshyr ritual from the Last Mythal books; perhaps even binding himself directly to Orcus.

In Thay, I imagine him as something of an upstart. More arrogant but less powerful than the others. That's why he leaves - to seek his means to outmatch these rivals he searches for ancient magics he heard of in Thay - perhaps in some ancient fell Tome of Magic.

Where my wondering goes wide is how he came to Orcus and not Eltab. To my knowledge this was Orcus' first big foothold in the Realms, all older references coming from Gary's Greyhawk/generic AD&D material.



Orcus from a product line standpoint has been a part of the realms since the product released, as the bloodstone pass adventures were some of the first ones for the realms. From a history standpoint, I think the first reference I've seen to Orcus was with the formation of Narfell. Ironically, this is RIGHT after the death of Nergal (an Untheric death deity) and the interrment of Nergal's dead body OUTSIDE of Unther and far to the north.... and very near to "The Dark Pit" of Dun-Tharos (formerly Narathmault, a drow culture involved with demons... and a dark place even before they arrived)... which would become the center of Narfell.

Now, why Nergal was buried outside of Unther... that's a bit of a mystery. Why a god of death was buried and relatively soon after a demon god of undeath becomes very relevant... a bit of a mystery that COULD be related. Anyone note how much Orcus looks like an orc? Would anyone be surprised if the orcs that came through the orcgate brought the worship of Orcus with them? Would anyone be surprised if the being that killed Nergal on the orc side of the Orcgate Wars was Orcus? Would anyone be surprised if Nergal had been infused with "undeath", changing his very nature from being a being who "warden of the dead" to some kind of "reborn as some god-lich" type being. This may very well be why Gilgeam entraps him far away from Unther.

Wow, and as I wrote that last sentence, something popped into my head. I've long thought that Mellifleur would make a perfect Narfellian (at least in the realms).... and before he rose, this realmsian caster may have had a different name as a mortal (see my previous ideas of a Mellifleur "collective"). Anyway, the timing of Bane/Bhaal/Myrkul's arising so that Mellifleur can have "stolen" his power from Bane puts him somewhere roughly just before Karsus'Folly and present day (with my preference being just before Karsus' Folly). If it were just before Karsus' Folly, it could explain Karsus, and it could explain Larloch having his enclave of Jiksidur above Narfell. It would be very fitting if the realmsian mortal that would become Mellifleur had entered the Great Barrow where Nergal and his family had been entombed and gathered something there that he used in the ritual that turns him into a god of liches.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7582 Posts

Posted - 18 Jul 2018 :  14:18:49  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

The problem is that 1e Zhengyi already outclasses every other Thayvian wizard. He was 30th level back when Tam was 24th, IIRC.

As for Velsharoon, I'd just gestalt him rather than multiclass him, or multiclass one side of the gestalt (so he'd be a pure wizard build on one side, and binder/dread necro/anima mage/whatever on the other). In Pathfinder, I'd build him with a mix of wizard, pathfinder savant, cypher mage and agent of the grave levels, netting him 9 non-wizard spells of his choice and his Int mod of necromancy spells from any list to be added to his base spell list.

Zhengyi in Pathfinder is fairly straightforward: wizard (either my own red wizard archetype or the pact wizard archetype) 20/exalted 10 of Orcus.



Zhengyi does NOW. However, four hundred years prior, he may have only been level 20 or even less. You are right though, in i.e. Zhengyi was level 30 and Tam was originally level 24. At that time, Sabass was the next powerful red wizard, and he wasn't even a Zulkir (he did become one after the death of the Zulkir of Conjuration after/during the salamander war, but they promptly show him as already dead and replaced by Nevron when they release the 2nd edition Spellbound, so we never see "screen time" with Sabass as a Zulkir). Also, by the time Spellbound is released, they jump Tam from level 24 to level 29. They also jump Lauzoril from level 18 to 22. Granted, the in game time passing for that is about 10 to 13 years.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Thraskir Skimper
Learned Scribe

200 Posts

Posted - 18 Jul 2018 :  20:57:11  Show Profile Send Thraskir Skimper a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Slaves aren't allowed to cut their own hair, and its by this fact that slaves in Thay are easily spotted compared to the commoners. (Fiction)

Slaves do cut their hair, non nobles also cut their hair. Some noble shave their heads but not everyone. No one tells a red wizard that they have to cut or shave their hair save protocol or a direct superior.


Thay Red
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Thraskir Skimper
Learned Scribe

200 Posts

Posted - 18 Jul 2018 :  21:04:26  Show Profile Send Thraskir Skimper a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

Great, now I have this mental picture of a thriving clandestine wig market in the Thayvian black market.



Magic or just time is used to add or subtract hair. The only wig market might be in the House of Curses in Eltabbar. And there are very few Wormlucks outside of that particular House inside Thay.

Thay Red
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7582 Posts

Posted - 19 Jul 2018 :  00:18:22  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thraskir Skimper

Slaves aren't allowed to cut their own hair, and its by this fact that slaves in Thay are easily spotted compared to the commoners. (Fiction)

Slaves do cut their hair, non nobles also cut their hair. Some noble shave their heads but not everyone. No one tells a red wizard that they have to cut or shave their hair save protocol or a direct superior.





If you're going to post things as if you're an authority, you might want to research them. You may also want to read more thoroughly before you respond. Yes some Mulans have slave barbers, but slaves cannot themselves cut their OWN hair. Also, on the statement that they shave their heads more on the outside of Thay than the inside, that's specifically called out as the opposite. By the way, I do love the roleplay aspect you're trying to do, as it reminds me of myself 20 years ago, but please understand I will always come back with research and if you expect to be taken seriously, you will be expected to do the same.

I stated
Slaves aren't allowed to cut their own hair, and its by this fact that slaves in Thay are easily spotted compared to the commoners.

Dreams of the Red Wizards, Page 12
Slaves who have been in Thay for more than a month can always be told apart from the peasantry because slaves are not allowed to cut their hair, no matter where on their bodies it grows.

Since the nobles of Thay are also very careful of cleanliness, this means that part of a slave's daily chores is washing an ever-growing head and, sometimes, body of hair. Under normal circumstances, the slave hair is piled up in masses on the head of the slave, but any slave who is not on his or her master's business must wear his or her hair down, so that they can be told as slaves immediately. It is possible for a slave to get permission to cut his hair, but it can never be cut to less than half way down the slave's back.

If a slave's hair must be cut for medical reasons, the first question is whether it would not be easier to let the slave die. If they decide to keep him alive, he is shaved where needed, then kept in seclusion until the hair grows out again.


On the non-slaves inside and outside of Thay

Traditionally, nobles of Thay disdain and abhor body hair (something of a trial for those of Rashemi descent). Men are known to grow facial hair even as they shave their heads. Women commonly shave their heads and decorate their shaved pates with artistic designs. Sometimes the designs are permanent tatoos, but most are just body paint, and frequently changed. This custom is mainly honored among the Tharchions and Tharchionesses, though most Red Wizards also follow the style when they have the time.

Presumed Red Wizards have been seen outside of Thay with beards and normal body hair. Most of these are obviously of Rashemi descent (part of a program of proving their worthiness by taking on missions to foreign lands), but even Mulani have been seen in such condition. It is thought that, without their specially-trained slave barbers, Red Wizards would rather grow their hair than risk cutting it by themselves or entrusting their heads to local barbers.



By the way, this has some very interesting psychological and cultural significance in how it can lead to controlling the population and making them law abiders. Picture yourself as a middle class Mulan female. You grow up, shaving your head, waxing the hair off your arms, leg, and nethers. You are considered beautiful amongst your people, especially with how you decorate your body with body paint. Then one day you help someone evade the law. You are caught and punished. As a result, within mere months, you are a shaggy haired "disgusting" person (and this may even be true if your punishment is to be a house slave). Mulans that themselves are forced into slavery (a common punishment for crimes) will gain a stigma somewhat similar to a person who is missing a hand in cultures that remove a hand for thievery.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 19 Jul 2018 00:32:55
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Thraskir Skimper
Learned Scribe

200 Posts

Posted - 19 Jul 2018 :  18:06:27  Show Profile Send Thraskir Skimper a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Believe what you want, there is a great deal of misinformation about Thay; Don't believe everything you read in a book

Thay Red

Edited by - Thraskir Skimper on 19 Jul 2018 18:11:54
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Thraskir Skimper
Learned Scribe

200 Posts

Posted - 19 Jul 2018 :  18:22:59  Show Profile Send Thraskir Skimper a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You've heard the rumor that our slaves can never cut their hair, just so we can tell who's a slave at a glance? That's Mulhorandi bullshit again. That's in their laws. They don't mind if their slaves are tripping all over themselves; everything is slower in Mulhorand, anyway. It's practically the land that time forgot. Hasn't changed much in thousands of years and they wonder why their empire is falling apart? But never mind that.

Thay Red
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Cyrinishad
Learned Scribe

300 Posts

Posted - 19 Jul 2018 :  19:43:34  Show Profile Send Cyrinishad a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have a few questions for Thraskir:

I've never bought into Elminster's flimsy claims as to why he wears Red Robes... So, is Elminster now, or has he ever been a Red Wizard? And/Or, is BANE a divine title or alias created by Elminster?

The esteemed Sages here at Candlekeep have all know about the existence of Red Wizards for many years... But, what can you tell us about the existence of Infra-Red Wizards?

I really liked reading about the esteemed Red Wizard, St. Nick... What is St. Nick's relation to the being known as Krampus? Is Krampus a pet, servant, familiar, apprentice? Or is he something more akin to a Demon or Vestige?

To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge. -Socrates

Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. -Dr. Seuss
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31630 Posts

Posted - 19 Jul 2018 :  20:33:55  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thraskir Skimper

Believe what you want, there is a great deal of misinformation about Thay; Don't believe everything you read in a book



And why are we to assume the book is wrong and that you are the authoritative source?

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7582 Posts

Posted - 20 Jul 2018 :  00:35:25  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cyrinishad

I have a few questions for Thraskir:

I've never bought into Elminster's flimsy claims as to why he wears Red Robes... So, is Elminster now, or has he ever been a Red Wizard? And/Or, is BANE a divine title or alias created by Elminster?

The esteemed Sages here at Candlekeep have all know about the existence of Red Wizards for many years... But, what can you tell us about the existence of Infra-Red Wizards?

I really liked reading about the esteemed Red Wizard, St. Nick... What is St. Nick's relation to the being known as Krampus? Is Krampus a pet, servant, familiar, apprentice? Or is he something more akin to a Demon or Vestige?



I heard the candy apple red wizards, crimson warlocks, and Scarlet Sorcerers were all making names for themselves too.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5336 Posts

Posted - 20 Jul 2018 :  01:45:37  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have a question: is Aumoaran the most powerful Red Wizard in Thay prior to Szass Tam's takeover?

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Thraskir Skimper
Learned Scribe

200 Posts

Posted - 20 Jul 2018 :  05:13:26  Show Profile Send Thraskir Skimper a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Who is Krampus

Krampus is either a version of or perhaps brother of St. Nick who operates outside of Thay. St. Nick is a Demi God or Lower plane denizen.

Elminster and being a Red Wizard he may have been a Mulhorandi Red Wizard maybe he left after the rebellion.

Why should you believe me? You shouldn't I'm a Chaotic Evil Red Wizard of Nar ancestory. However you are not stupid and must think before you believe that Thay follows Mulhorand historic traditions. We don't do the correct Mulhorandi thing, we do our own thing. Slaves with huge long hair makes them easy to identify? Thay is ruled by and with and through magic, if we want to hairy slaves they will be hairy with a cantrip. We don't need to have hairy slaves to know who a slave is. Think about it they could cut their hair and we wouldn't know who a slave is. We have other ways to mark slaves. Slaves, some slaves, are treated better in Thay than commoners are treated in other parts of Toril.



Thay Red
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2040 Posts

Posted - 20 Jul 2018 :  05:24:56  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You can role play in the forum as much as you like Thraskir, but that's not really the idea here so don't go back and forth with all those who aren't down with it.

As for slaves being treated well, I refer you to literally every reference to Thayan slaves in print as proof to the contrary.

Edited by - The Masked Mage on 20 Jul 2018 05:25:21
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Thraskir Skimper
Learned Scribe

200 Posts

Posted - 20 Jul 2018 :  05:34:06  Show Profile Send Thraskir Skimper a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I have a question: is Aumoaran the most powerful Red Wizard in Thay prior to Szass Tam's takeover?

-- George Krashos



I Don't Know, not if Elminster was a Red Wizard

Thay Red

Edited by - Thraskir Skimper on 20 Jul 2018 05:58:18
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