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Thraskir Skimper
Learned Scribe

191 Posts

Posted - 04 Jul 2018 :  04:12:05  Show Profile Send Thraskir Skimper a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Poll Question:
Which is the best way to live on after old age death?

Become a Lich and carry on not fearing death by age.

Become a Vampire and carry on for ever more.

Take over a new younger body.

Choices:

Become a Lich
Become a Vampire
Switch to a Younger body (Magic Jar or Sarmin''s Eye)

(Anonymous Vote)

Thay Red

Edited by - Thraskir Skimper on 04 Jul 2018 04:12:41

LordofBones
Senior Scribe

821 Posts

Posted - 04 Jul 2018 :  04:22:18  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Vampires have a bevy of crippling weaknesses and dietary needs that make isolation inconvenient. Magic jar requires recasting and range (though scrying helps) and making sure someone doesn't shank your squishy body.

Ritual suicide and clone should work, but lichdom is the best choice of the three.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
31402 Posts

Posted - 04 Jul 2018 :  04:39:28  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Of the three, a younger body.

Vampiric vulnerabilities (sunlight, holy symbols, teenage girls that can't act, etc) are pretty serious, and vampires are often portrayed as being totally vulnerable and unconscious when the sun is up, even if they're deep underground.

Becoming a lich means you get to watch your fingers fall off, eventually, and that seriously complicates spellcasting. Plus, few housekeepers are willing to keep cleaning up the trail of decaying organs you leave as you move about. Death dandruff is a messy thing.

But the best option isn't listed here: some sort of artificial body. Give yourself a shiny new steel body, for example, and you've not got the vampiric weaknesses, your fingers aren't going to fall off in a few centuries, you've not got a soft squishy body that needs to be replaced every few decades, and you don't have the need to eat or rest that vampires and off-the-shelf mortals have. The right mix of protection spells or a simple blueshine treatment, and you could tap dance on a rust monster without worry.

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LordofBones
Senior Scribe

821 Posts

Posted - 04 Jul 2018 :  06:07:47  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:


Becoming a lich means you get to watch your fingers fall off, eventually, and that seriously complicates spellcasting. Plus, few housekeepers are willing to keep cleaning up the trail of decaying organs you leave as you move about. Death dandruff is a messy thing.



Liches don't have vocal chords, yet are still able to cast spells with verbal components. I don't really think it's an issue; Larloch and Rhangaun are still going strong, and they're each over a thousand years old, at minimum.

Hell, there are Sarrukh liches, which leads me to suspect that the decay of a lich's form isn't really tied to age so much as it's tied to the lich's own personality and goals. Shoon VII, for instance, is a demilich, but he's younger than Larloch and Rhangaun.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31402 Posts

Posted - 04 Jul 2018 :  09:57:08  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

quote:


Becoming a lich means you get to watch your fingers fall off, eventually, and that seriously complicates spellcasting. Plus, few housekeepers are willing to keep cleaning up the trail of decaying organs you leave as you move about. Death dandruff is a messy thing.



Liches don't have vocal chords, yet are still able to cast spells with verbal components. I don't really think it's an issue; Larloch and Rhangaun are still going strong, and they're each over a thousand years old, at minimum.

Hell, there are Sarrukh liches, which leads me to suspect that the decay of a lich's form isn't really tied to age so much as it's tied to the lich's own personality and goals. Shoon VII, for instance, is a demilich, but he's younger than Larloch and Rhangaun.



Almost every depiction we have of liches is either a skeleton or a decaying corpse, so death dandruff is a thing. And it's canon that liches eventually become demiliches, with just a skull and no body. So unless the body is crumbling to dust all at once, then pieces are going to be falling off, eventually. Thus, despite any exceptions that may exist, it's canon that the physical form of a lich is going to fail.


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Thraskir Skimper
Learned Scribe

191 Posts

Posted - 04 Jul 2018 :  13:09:17  Show Profile Send Thraskir Skimper a Private Message  Reply with Quote
4 comments no votes. seems if you peek you can't vote.

Thay Red

Edited by - Thraskir Skimper on 04 Jul 2018 13:10:36
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Kentinal
Great Reader

4350 Posts

Posted - 04 Jul 2018 :  13:59:21  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes that is feature of polls here. You forfet your vote if you want to know how the voting is going. Basically secret ballot design. Vote before you know what the others have voted.

I have not yet voted, not sure I like the options.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7379 Posts

Posted - 04 Jul 2018 :  15:09:22  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
cloning a younger body... its the best because you still have other options available. Still there's other options. Portrait of Longevity, etc...

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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LordofBones
Senior Scribe

821 Posts

Posted - 04 Jul 2018 :  16:08:32  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cloning a younger body works if you go the ritual suicide route. Clones fail if you die of natural causes.
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1310 Posts

Posted - 04 Jul 2018 :  21:03:26  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Of those 3 options I picked :
Vampire as the least objectionable, you don't have steal bodies or devour souls, he don't have to brevil, it's a hard path, but possible.
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Thraskir Skimper
Learned Scribe

191 Posts

Posted - 05 Jul 2018 :  02:38:10  Show Profile Send Thraskir Skimper a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You could always make a clone then flesh to stone your original body, after Magic jar switching with the clone. Your original body never ages. You live out in your clone body then when you die again you set off a contingency spell teleport no error back, switching with the clone after, stone to flesh. You are standing where your prized statue was, holding the scroll it was holding. No one really dies just a magic clone. Of course you could just use a slave. Doesn't even need be 100% Mulani. 25-50% Succubus/Incubus 50-75% Mulani that way you don't really age anymore either. Your original body is safe secure and undying. Of course my original body is now a Demilich on another plane / realm so I don't really care about all that. But you might.

Thay Red
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7379 Posts

Posted - 05 Jul 2018 :  13:40:55  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thraskir Skimper

You could always make a clone then flesh to stone your original body, after Magic jar switching with the clone. Your original body never ages. You live out in your clone body then when you die again you set off a contingency spell teleport no error back, switching with the clone after, stone to flesh. You are standing where your prized statue was, holding the scroll it was holding. No one really dies just a magic clone. Of course you could just use a slave. Doesn't even need be 100% Mulani. 25-50% Succubus/Incubus 50-75% Mulani that way you don't really age anymore either. Your original body is safe secure and undying. Of course my original body is now a Demilich on another plane / realm so I don't really care about all that. But you might.



Unless someone drops a spell which prevents you teleporting, or you're in an area that prevents teleporting, or you're on a plane which doesn't allow instant transport between planes, or someone uses a spell that forces possessing souls out of a body.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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LordofBones
Senior Scribe

821 Posts

Posted - 05 Jul 2018 :  16:31:00  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There's always ensul's soultheft. Deals Int damage, if the target dies you don't age for a number of days equal to the Int damage dealt, if the target is a spellcaster you don't age for a number of days equal to the sum of the spell levels prepared by/available to the caster, if the target is a psion you don't age for a number of days equal to the psion's power point reserve.
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Balmar Foghaven
Learned Scribe

Canada
95 Posts

Posted - 05 Jul 2018 :  21:59:06  Show Profile Send Balmar Foghaven a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

But the best option isn't listed here: some sort of artificial body. Give yourself a shiny new steel body, for example, and you've not got the vampiric weaknesses, your fingers aren't going to fall off in a few centuries, you've not got a soft squishy body that needs to be replaced every few decades, and you don't have the need to eat or rest that vampires and off-the-shelf mortals have. The right mix of protection spells or a simple blueshine treatment, and you could tap dance on a rust monster without worry.



In one of my more recent campaigns, one of my NPCs was a sentient skeletal mage - not quite a lich, but a sentient undead wizard - who sought to escape the frailty of his own decomposing body (the players decided to call him Darwin for kicks, and the name stuck). My players actually sympathized with him and helped him construct a quite expensive golem body out of adamantine, into which he carved arcane runes with similar effects to the magic tattoos. His consciousness now resides within the construct, making effectively ageless.

"Despair not, for in the end all things shall work out for the best - in at least one timeline."
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Kentinal
Great Reader

4350 Posts

Posted - 05 Jul 2018 :  22:13:51  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Thraskir Skimper

You could always make a clone then flesh to stone your original body, after Magic jar switching with the clone. Your original body never ages. You live out in your clone body then when you die again you set off a contingency spell teleport no error back, switching with the clone after, stone to flesh. You are standing where your prized statue was, holding the scroll it was holding. No one really dies just a magic clone. Of course you could just use a slave. Doesn't even need be 100% Mulani. 25-50% Succubus/Incubus 50-75% Mulani that way you don't really age anymore either. Your original body is safe secure and undying. Of course my original body is now a Demilich on another plane / realm so I don't really care about all that. But you might.



Unless someone drops a spell which prevents you teleporting, or you're in an area that prevents teleporting, or you're on a plane which doesn't allow instant transport between planes, or someone uses a spell that forces possessing souls out of a body.



Well you run into the same problem of death no matter which option selected. All that any life extended does is prevent death from old age. It does not prevent death from successful hostile attack.

Basically the poll is asking for a vote of way one might choose o try to live forever. None of the options insure using any path, will live forever.

Side thought. Becoming a Chosen clearly appears to extend life.
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Thraskir Skimper
Learned Scribe

191 Posts

Posted - 06 Jul 2018 :  01:30:31  Show Profile Send Thraskir Skimper a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Thraskir Skimper

You could always make a clone then flesh to stone your original body, after Magic jar switching with the clone. Your original body never ages. You live out in your clone body then when you die again you set off a contingency spell teleport no error back, switching with the clone after, stone to flesh. You are standing where your prized statue was, holding the scroll it was holding. No one really dies just a magic clone. Of course you could just use a slave. Doesn't even need be 100% Mulani. 25-50% Succubus/Incubus 50-75% Mulani that way you don't really age anymore either. Your original body is safe secure and undying. Of course my original body is now a Demilich on another plane / realm so I don't really care about all that. But you might.



Unless someone drops a spell which prevents you teleporting, or you're in an area that prevents teleporting, or you're on a plane which doesn't allow instant transport between planes, or someone uses a spell that forces possessing souls out of a body.



Well you run into the same problem of death no matter which option selected. All that any life extended does is prevent death from old age. It does not prevent death from successful hostile attack.

Basically the poll is asking for a vote of way one might choose o try to live forever. None of the options insure using any path, will live forever.

Side thought. Becoming a Chosen clearly appears to extend life.



That is why you carry a Staff of the Eye, see Sarmin's Eye Spell.

Thay Red
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Thraskir Skimper
Learned Scribe

191 Posts

Posted - 06 Jul 2018 :  01:34:55  Show Profile Send Thraskir Skimper a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sarmin's Eye, This is a spell / cursed item that is one of those things that is just so much fun to play. Sarmin was a Wizard and later Lich and even after that Demi Lich in my Sea of Dust Oearth adventures. In his final battle Sarmin devastated an attacking army killing himself and turning a central Oasis in the Sea of Dust into yet more dust. He escaped his demise by magic Jaring into his Staff and flinging it into the Forgotten Realms. Skimper my Red Wizard found the broken staff and suddenly all went black. Skimper woke up in a strange ghostly body invisible if there at all. Unable to hear or touch or taste Skimper found he could float / fly about. He couldn't speak but he could see and could detect thoughts as per the spell. Skimper woke at night and spent a while floating flying around in circles trying to figure out what happened. Eventually with sun rise he found he could see better but when looking into a pool of water found out he wasn't looking back at himself.

Through experiments Skimper found he could touch but it was wierd and only right around where he could see from. He didn't blink and deduced that somehow he was in an Arcane eye or Wizards eye spell form. Invisible but not just a ghost. He could bump into things. Skimper also realized that he could see his tracks in the dirt where he came upon the broken staff. And even more astonishingly he could see his tracks leading off further down the path. Skimper was stuck in a Magic Jar. A flying invisible Arcane Eye Magic Jar. One that could hear birds think. Luckily Skimper as a divination specialist used the Detect thoughts spell enough to recognize it.

With nothing else to do Skimper started following his tracks. While doing so he happened upon a pair of Goblins. It was then that Skimper found he could not only hear the Goblin thoughts but could send a thought to a Goblin. This resulted in a Goblin fight when one Goblin could hear his suggestion that the other has stolen the gold coin they found. The one surviving Goblin celebrated his victory and learned that a ghost, Skimper, was here to help this Goblin become a master Goblin Mage. it seemed that Skimper remembered his spells but was unable to cast any while in the Magic Jar, but could cast spells using the Goblin.

Eventually the Goblin Mage attacked a group of Human but suddenly no spells came. The Goblin was dispatched and a pretty young female fighter became the next vessel of Skimper. Skimpers form before he found the staff was that of a very old Red Wizard. A plan was hatched. it took many days and weeks and the fighter commander slowly started to change, distrust broke among her subordinates as she spend many a day locked in her tower ranting and talking to herself. One day she picked up her new books, a carry case and walked away. provisions and a wooden tree branch walking staff, wearing a travel robe, with hooded cloak.

Long story short, Skimper transformed the Young Lady Commander into a Junior Mage and apprentice. Then with supplies and crafting materials She made a new Staff, the Staff of the Eye. It is a Wizards Staff lets the owner contain a 1" gem in the tip that sees for the maker. It can be prepped with a Magic Jar and a few other spells detect thoughts, Arcane Eye, Invisibility, Comprehend Languages, cause blindness. These spells with the prep and magic process allows one to direct all sight through the gem at the end of the Staff. With Skimpers prodding our slightly insane Mage used the Gem that just appeared next to the Staff one day. When resting the Magic Jar Wizards / Arcane Eye trans forms back into the Gem of the Magic Jar, available for all to see.

Using the Staff of the Eye causes permanent Blindness as long as the staff is owned. But the Gem / Eye on the staff allows one to see through it. One can look over walls, around corners, inside containers etc... One is also immune to all sight based attacks even gaze attacks like the Medusa. Because the Gem has the invisibility cast upon it it is unseeable by others not able to see the invisible. Those that can would see a 1" inch eye without a lid gazing about. Staff owner gains Dark vision and has 120 foot range normal and dark vision.

However the Staff owner is only seeing through one eye and suffers a -4 ranged attack penalty. Finally the Gem is a prepared Magic Jar and one can use it as such. but upon using it to escape, like Sarmin did with Skimpers body and Skimper with his new young body. The staff shatters and a whole new Adventure starts for the new Possessor of the Eye of Sarmin.

Skimper was most pleased with his new body and frequently jumps into younger bodies using his newly constructed Staff of the Eye and deposits Crazy floating Ghosts all about. The Staff of the Eye will warp the Detect thoughts spell into a cursed item like a medallion of ESP. with thought projection as well.

Sarmins Eye. 6th level Spell. Used to create the Staff which will allow for storing and even taking over others bodies. The possessed host wholly loses their body and either must take a new, or float around as a crazy invisible Arcane eye.

Thoughts and Memories are kept by the mind / eye and transfered to the new body, these however need to replenish and one starts out with a levels of the 'befriended' subject/victim. This new victim needs to develop to a point of gaining a new level every month through conversation training added to adventuring until able to make a new Staff of the eye. Once mounted the Staff blinds the maker and if a magic jar or Eye of Sarmin possessed gem is used then the Arcane eye ghost can trade places with the new victim.

While in 'ghost' form the possessor is able to cast spells through the 'victim' at 3 levels higher than the possessors level. For non spell casters this means as a 3rd level wizard. This process will see the intelligence of the spell caster enhanced by 1/4 the 'ghost' intelligence, in Skimpers case 20/4= +5 intelligence boost, to allow a fighter intelligence 8 to be 13. Further enhancement magic will increase the base level of the 'victim'. If already a spell caster this will further enhance the 'victim' with additional caster levels. The 'ghost' can usually find and pick put a higher intelligence 'victim' to communicate with. The goblin was a 7 intelligence the other was a 5. A Circlet of intelligence +4 would enhance the goblin 7 + 4 = 11 + 5 = 16. High enough to cast the Sarmins Eye spell, make a new staff and live possess the body of the Goblin, who gets to live as a ghost possibly going insane. Upon possession the caster takes over at the unmodified level and at the Casters full Mental abilities. ie Intelligence.

One will look like the new form even possess its Strength Dexterity and Constitution even Charisma. Wisdom is possessors increased by +1 if new form had a higher Wisdom score as some of that the wisdom is imparted. Creating a Staff eliminates the 'victims' saving throw vs the magic jar. Of course the 'victim' doesn't know this. The new 'ghost' is now a 8th plus level spell caster with enough knowledge to figure out what is going on and repeat the process. Taking a body is not a 'good' act, but you are not actually killing the body so it isn't necessarily an 'evil' act. Without the Staff the Magic Jar gem can attempt once per week to get its body back by Magic Jar but only with its own body. This is why the gem is not taken, very often, by the new 'possessor' of the body. Unless one is able to spend the 1000 gpv gem right away. And even then one needs to be careful. In 'ghost' form one is knocked out for 12 hours and while unconscious one is in gem form. The gem is considered magical and highly resistant to destruction +10 save. Detect magic will detect magic of enchantment form. If the spell is used to create a possessed staff it immediately attacks the 'victim' and the staff is destroyed. If a non possessed gem is used and a staff is created it lasts as long as it is possessed or until used to transfer to a new body or if the possessor of the staff is killed and the staff blows apart with the death.

This is not a reincarnation spell. It is similar but a slow process taking months to complete the transformation avoiding death and getting a new body. Even if the Staff of the Eye is used in empty form to attack a new 'victim' stealing their body, the new body has a recovery time. While one can assume the identity immediately one is limited to new bodies original spell casters level +3 regaining new levels up to original level at one per month or while adventuring at half normal experience costs. If used with an original live body the new form will seem to have killed the old body or perhaps the old form died when his/her staff exploded. External attacks are treated like the Magic Jar spell.

Some think the Magic Jar happens when the Staff of the Eye is created even if 'empty' and the body is slaved to the staff as some form of living zombie. Maybe maybe not...


Skimper did catch up with Sarmin after he become a Lich. While getting a few of his belongings back, Sarmin returned to The Sea of Dust with Skimper and Sarmin on good terms. Out somewhere in the hills around Thay is a portal to the Sea of Dust and a very powerful Demi Lich.

Thay Red
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Thraskir Skimper
Learned Scribe

191 Posts

Posted - 06 Jul 2018 :  01:41:38  Show Profile Send Thraskir Skimper a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I do wonder if you end up at your own level or at the attackers level or if you have to build your levels up again. Might be an option to just switching bodies all the time.

Thay Red
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The Masked Mage
Master of Realmslore

USA
1977 Posts

Posted - 06 Jul 2018 :  02:33:23  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As a DM I'd never allow any to work. They have become mundane and fail to add anything to a campaign in my mind. At the very least such a character would become NPC. However, if a player character works long and hard at some other way of cheating death that involves some creativity (or at least draws on something literary they just read - Dorian Grey for example), then I'd play along - at least for a while.
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The Masked Mage
Master of Realmslore

USA
1977 Posts

Posted - 06 Jul 2018 :  06:20:18  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There are literally dozens of examples on how to extend one's life beyond game norms. For the most part, none are needed unless you are a big fan of rapidly advancing timelines. A gaming session should never advance more than 1 week in time - allowing for non rp'd rest periods (how could you roleplay that time any faster and still be legitimate?). That means if you have a weekly game all year long, the campaign will only advance time 1 year. Even figuring in magical aging, as long as magical restoration is an option there should never be a problem.

This means characters that seek immortality are in it for the "power" and have failed to learn the lessons taught by almost every such story - both in the FR and in other literature: that immortality is a curse rather than a prize to attain. I'd hope every DM works long and hard to hammer that lesson home to any "immortal" character. The simplest way would be to make the magic fail or go wild in some way - immortal but curse. Lich but can't recall basic spells, etc.
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LordofBones
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821 Posts

Posted - 06 Jul 2018 :  08:26:57  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That's kind of difficult to do when we have many ancient creatures retaining their mental faculties. Larloch and Rhangaun come to mind; Qysar Shoon VII; Telamont Tanthul; numerous ancient dragons; the Terraseer; Ioulaum; Aumvor; etc all come to mind. The crazy ones all have mitigating circumstances; Halaster is only nuts in Undermountain, for instance, while Sammaster had problems loooong before lichdom.
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Archmage of Nowhere
Seeker

USA
47 Posts

Posted - 06 Jul 2018 :  18:57:34  Show Profile Send Archmage of Nowhere a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think the general lesson of Immortality is simply a battle for purpose. All long lived creatures and characters eventually boil down to the battle to maintain purpose for themselves.

Elves, Dragons, and those like them with natural millennia spanning lifespans have a temperament to match but often times will eventually devolve into idleness.

Characters who have achieved immortality through ambition don't always have a matching purpose for when they attain it. That is the general failure state of immortal characters.
Its the purpose that is captivating not the Immortality itself. Ultimately not every character has a burning eternal purpose and the will to see it done. That's why I'm partial to vampirism as the Hunger itself is like a poor man's obsession. Hunger will drive anyone to do the unthinkable so having that be the eternal driving force of a character kind of just writes itself, at the cost of a slew of weaknesses.

So if we are just talking about methods, really vampirism is the only one that comes with a implicit driving force to survive, without them having to have lofty or unattainable goals. Without that you are doomed to death by melancholy or idleness really.

Although I have used all of these methods and more for various NPCs over the years lol.
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The Masked Mage
Master of Realmslore

USA
1977 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2018 :  02:42:09  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

That's kind of difficult to do when we have many ancient creatures retaining their mental faculties. Larloch and Rhangaun come to mind; Qysar Shoon VII; Telamont Tanthul; numerous ancient dragons; the Terraseer; Ioulaum; Aumvor; etc all come to mind. The crazy ones all have mitigating circumstances; Halaster is only nuts in Undermountain, for instance, while Sammaster had problems loooong before lichdom.



All fine examples of NPCs; none of which need to be roleplayed like a PC. Apples and oranges I'd say. Note that while each of those are "active" in the realms - they basically don't do anything noticeable for centuries on end. Aside from Halaster, the others are pretty much stories told to frighten children, if they've not been forgotten altogether.
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LordofBones
Senior Scribe

821 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2018 :  05:08:21  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

That's kind of difficult to do when we have many ancient creatures retaining their mental faculties. Larloch and Rhangaun come to mind; Qysar Shoon VII; Telamont Tanthul; numerous ancient dragons; the Terraseer; Ioulaum; Aumvor; etc all come to mind. The crazy ones all have mitigating circumstances; Halaster is only nuts in Undermountain, for instance, while Sammaster had problems loooong before lichdom.



All fine examples of NPCs; none of which need to be roleplayed like a PC. Apples and oranges I'd say. Note that while each of those are "active" in the realms - they basically don't do anything noticeable for centuries on end. Aside from Halaster, the others are pretty much stories told to frighten children, if they've not been forgotten altogether.



Which doesn't really matter. By the time you're pulling off immortality shenanigans, you've gone far beyond mortal concerns and are involved in far higher theaters.

I find that arbitrary limits being imposed on the PC while NPCs get off scot free doesn't particularly make it fun for the players. Why would a lich, whose transformation sharpens and hones his mind and will, suddenly forget spells? They've transcended petty mortal limitations, after all.

Bored immortals being driven nuts by their own boredom isn't an uncommon trope, but from what we've seen in the Realms, the 'immortals' are carrying on just fine. Even that lich Larloch keeps as a scribe isn't bored, he's just depressed (and with good reason).
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The Masked Mage
Master of Realmslore

USA
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Posted - 07 Jul 2018 :  05:38:01  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My point is a campaign where a PC attains that level of "far higher concerns" should end. Time to roll new characters and retire the old.

Super powerful characters have been toyed with several times but never really successfully if you ask me. The best try was the old D&D immortal rules, but even that had problems - namely that things became very hack and slash with gods and such. The Bloodstone attempt didn't really make any sense at all to me. the 3rd+ edition attempts I thought were the worst and just created super powerful PCs with no good explanation of how low level beings hold their own and thrive among all the countless super powerful beings needed to make a super powerful "epic" campaign fun.
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Thraskir Skimper
Learned Scribe

191 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2018 :  04:00:34  Show Profile Send Thraskir Skimper a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Of the three, a younger body.

Vampiric vulnerabilities (sunlight, holy symbols, teenage girls that can't act, etc) are pretty serious, and vampires are often portrayed as being totally vulnerable and unconscious when the sun is up, even if they're deep underground.

Becoming a lich means you get to watch your fingers fall off, eventually, and that seriously complicates spellcasting. Plus, few housekeepers are willing to keep cleaning up the trail of decaying organs you leave as you move about. Death dandruff is a messy thing.

But the best option isn't listed here: some sort of artificial body. Give yourself a shiny new steel body, for example, and you've not got the vampiric weaknesses, your fingers aren't going to fall off in a few centuries, you've not got a soft squishy body that needs to be replaced every few decades, and you don't have the need to eat or rest that vampires and off-the-shelf mortals have. The right mix of protection spells or a simple blueshine treatment, and you could tap dance on a rust monster without worry.



There are other leap frog options to time travel into the future. A Timer spell and a flesh to stone to make you a statue to turn back after a year with a timed Stone to flesh spell. Guess I should include that in the spell list.

Imprisonment works good albeit hard to reverse.

My Skimper's compartment spell can lock you away but you still age. Unless you drink a stone to flesh potion that wears off after a set time.

Again not ideal but makes for an interesting way to time travel one way to the future.

Sarmin's Eye Spell lets you turn into a 'ghost' of sorts. Even cast spells and remain ageless. In Gem form.

Thay Red
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