Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Forgotten Realms Journals
 General Forgotten Realms Chat
 A Bunch of Beholders
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2

Gelcur
Senior Scribe

499 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2018 :  05:36:17  Show Profile  Visit Gelcur's Homepage Send Gelcur a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
A few friends and I were discussing the proper term for groups of creatures, of course we quickly moved on to fantasy creatures.

We eventually got to Beholders... all our searching yielded nothing. Even dug up the old Ecology article from Dragon 76 that Ed had a hand in still nothing.

Anyone have any ideas or "definitive" source?

Our top two contenders were a Bunch of Beholders or, my favorite, a Bouquet of Beholders. We figured it would be amusing the compare them to flowers, beauty in the eye of and all, but also all the eye stock kind of reminded us of a bunch of flowers.

The party come to a town befallen by hysteria

Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good.

The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2420 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2018 :  06:59:17  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Beholders are hive-based, with a queen, so I'd base it off of insects.

Once you get past descriptors of the community (like "nation," "hive," "nest," "den," "brood," etc.) or military terms, options for the collective terms of groups would therefor include:

"swarm" (like many insects, including bees),
"intrusion" (like cockroaches - I like this as it alludes to their invasion of worlds), or even "plague" (like locusts)

Other possibilities could be "host," "pod" (like whales), a "descent" (like woodpeckers) or "hover" (like trout - both allude to their levitation), a "rout" (like wolves - referring to the result of their attacks).
Go to Top of Page

LordofBones
Master of Realmslore

1477 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2018 :  07:05:44  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The obvious answer is 'bordello'.
Go to Top of Page

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6641 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2018 :  08:51:17  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ed actually did a Realms terms of venery article for Dragon I think, but it was never published.

— George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
Go to Top of Page

TBeholder
Great Reader

2378 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2018 :  09:48:18  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gelcur

A few friends and I were discussing the proper term for groups of creatures, of course we quickly moved on to fantasy creatures.

We eventually got to Beholders... all our searching yielded nothing.

Hive or cluster, depending on the organization.
quote:
Anyone have any ideas or "definitive" source?

I, Tyrant.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
Go to Top of Page

Elren_Wolfsbane
Learned Scribe

USA
111 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2018 :  13:59:24  Show Profile Send Elren_Wolfsbane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Swatm sounds appropriate, though if Ed (or the other writers) had something else in mind, then go with that.

This is why I love this forum. Conversations like this

Aa' lasser en`coialle n`natula brown.

(May the leaves of your life tree never turn brown)

-Elren Wolfsbane
Go to Top of Page

Taleras
Seeker

75 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2018 :  14:04:15  Show Profile Send Taleras a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like a "murder of Beholders" personally!
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2018 :  16:23:23  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Many years ago, I saw a list someone did online that named groups of various D&D monsters... Unfortunately, if I saved it, I don't know what I saved it under, so I can't find it now.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2420 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2018 :  00:20:01  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Taleras

I like a "murder of Beholders" personally!



I had thought of that, but I like keeping that reserved for crows :)
Go to Top of Page

Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7966 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2018 :  08:46:56  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think I'd go with a "torment of tyrants" or a "spectrum of beholders".

[/Ayrik]
Go to Top of Page

Storyteller Hero
Learned Scribe

USA
329 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2018 :  11:17:25  Show Profile  Visit Storyteller Hero's Homepage Send Storyteller Hero a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A gaggle of beholders.


My Blog: https://www.facebook.com/Johnnys-Tabletop-RPG-Design-Blog-1697026710539149/?ref=aymt_homepage_panel

My DMG Shop: http://www.dmsguild.com/browse.php?x=0&y=0&author=Johnny%20Tek

Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2018 :  13:25:11  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just found two things, since I had some time for the Google-Fu:

A prior discussion, here in our halls: Terms of Venery - Names for groups of things

And a graphic:
The Stoakes-Whibley Natural Index of Supernatural Collective Nouns, some of which can be used for D&D critters.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2018 :  13:36:00  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Use the words you would say upon meetingnsuch a group of monsters.

So for example a group of adventurers encounters 5 beholders and the first thing they say is.

"Oh holy merciful mother of aaargh, the eyes, urrrrgh, the teeth, heeeelllllppppp . . . . . . . ."

And that is the term used to describe a group of beholders

Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site
Go to Top of Page

Starshade
Learned Scribe

Norway
279 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2018 :  15:23:52  Show Profile Send Starshade a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Like in a tower of giraffes, a cauldron of bats?
Tbh this is the first time 'hive' is mentioned related to beholders. Not sure it's a good match, but it is at least more meaningful than speaking of flying cauldrons.
Go to Top of Page

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2018 :  16:20:39  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Beholder hives are mentioned occasionally in realmslore, the alimir hive, etc.

Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site
Go to Top of Page

Elren_Wolfsbane
Learned Scribe

USA
111 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2018 :  18:26:39  Show Profile Send Elren_Wolfsbane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Beholder's have immense telepathic powers that could indicate hive mind (hell, they give birth by just thinking of another beholder

Take in consideration what a hive mind means. Here I will focus on the second meaning of the definition.


Hive mind:
Psychology, Sociology.
a collective consciousness, analogous to the behavior of social insects, in which a group of people become aware of their commonality and think and act as a community, sharing their knowledge, thoughts, and resources.

such a group mentality characterized by uncritical conformity and loss of a sense of individuality and personal accountability.


So, can you really say each individual Beholder is not their own being, with it's own personality, etc...

Aa' lasser en`coialle n`natula brown.

(May the leaves of your life tree never turn brown)

-Elren Wolfsbane
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2018 :  18:39:56  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Except we've seen plenty of example of independent beholders doing their own thing and pursuing their own ambitions, and I'm not recalling any examples of a beholder hive mind. Off the top of my head, I'm not really recalling any intelligent D&D critters that are part of a hive mind, though I'm sure that someone will come along and correct me on that.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2018 :  19:20:18  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I believe one of Eds forging the realms articles deals with how beholder operate (or at least one of them) I think it was entitled the xorlarrin (sp) but I could be making that up

Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site
Go to Top of Page

Elren_Wolfsbane
Learned Scribe

USA
111 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2018 :  19:50:38  Show Profile Send Elren_Wolfsbane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Except we've seen plenty of example of independent beholders doing their own thing and pursuing their own ambitions, and I'm not recalling any examples of a beholder hive mind. Off the top of my head, I'm not really recalling any intelligent D&D critters that are part of a hive mind, though I'm sure that someone will come along and correct me on that.



I agree that there is no one instance of a hive Beholders in lore, but this is D&D, you never know.

I was looking around, and Cranium Rats (and supposedly at one time) a group of Mind Flayers (but I'm unsure of that). I would also assume Insects fall in that hive mind category

Aa' lasser en`coialle n`natula brown.

(May the leaves of your life tree never turn brown)

-Elren Wolfsbane
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11686 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2018 :  22:35:03  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Just found two things, since I had some time for the Google-Fu:

A prior discussion, here in our halls: Terms of Venery - Names for groups of things

And a graphic:
The Stoakes-Whibley Natural Index of Supernatural Collective Nouns, some of which can be used for D&D critters.



Two Words

Holy Cr@p

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11686 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2018 :  22:38:41  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Except we've seen plenty of example of independent beholders doing their own thing and pursuing their own ambitions, and I'm not recalling any examples of a beholder hive mind. Off the top of my head, I'm not really recalling any intelligent D&D critters that are part of a hive mind, though I'm sure that someone will come along and correct me on that.



Worth discussing as a sidebar. I can think of Formians and Bacar (both are ants) and Abeil (bee people) and illithids.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

Elren_Wolfsbane
Learned Scribe

USA
111 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2018 :  23:22:16  Show Profile Send Elren_Wolfsbane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Just found two things, since I had some time for the Google-Fu:

A prior discussion, here in our halls: Terms of Venery - Names for groups of things

And a graphic:
The Stoakes-Whibley Natural Index of Supernatural Collective Nouns, some of which can be used for D&D critters.



Two Words

Holy Cr@p



Good link!
I was thinking, would you consider a Beholder almost alien like to the realms? (Also, now I think of it Mind Flayers Are infact alien to Toril)

Aa' lasser en`coialle n`natula brown.

(May the leaves of your life tree never turn brown)

-Elren Wolfsbane
Go to Top of Page

Elren_Wolfsbane
Learned Scribe

USA
111 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2018 :  23:27:06  Show Profile Send Elren_Wolfsbane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A pension of Beholders! ???

Aa' lasser en`coialle n`natula brown.

(May the leaves of your life tree never turn brown)

-Elren Wolfsbane
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 12 Jun 2018 :  03:24:42  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Except we've seen plenty of example of independent beholders doing their own thing and pursuing their own ambitions, and I'm not recalling any examples of a beholder hive mind. Off the top of my head, I'm not really recalling any intelligent D&D critters that are part of a hive mind, though I'm sure that someone will come along and correct me on that.



Worth discussing as a sidebar. I can think of Formians and Bacar (both are ants) and Abeil (bee people) and illithids.




I'm not sure that I'd include illithids, there... To me, a hive mind implies one mind controlling many bodies, with each body being either entirely dependent on that hive mind or greatly diminished when apart from it. Illithids gain from being part of the mental collective, but they can function perfectly well independently, and even when part of the collective are still independent entities.

My favorite hive minds from fantasy and sci-fi are the cho-ja from the Riftwar books, and Rook Gestalt from the book The Rook.

The cho-ja were much like the thri-kreen, physically. They lived in hives, and the Queen of each hive bred workers, soldiers, and other queens. And like many insects, the workers were specialized for one function, like feeding others, mating, providing ventilation, or crafting. The warriors had some independence, but the rest were fully part of the hive mind. And the Queen acted as a sort of node for the hive mind; the hive mind contained all the memories of all the cho-ja to have lived -- so it was a racial memory, as well as a hive mind. It also meant that the entire race was essentially one eternal consciousness.

Gestalt, from The Rook, was one human mind with four bodies: a brother and sister that were fraternal twins, and two other brothers. Gestalt could control any one or all four of his bodies simultaneously, to the point of having martial arts sparring matches with himself or acting as 4 members of a special forces unit. Gestalt could also withdraw from any of his bodies, leaving that body mindless and inactive. Other people, when discussing upcoming meetings with Gestalt or something, would have to ask which bodies were going to be in attendance.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!

Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 12 Jun 2018 03:29:44
Go to Top of Page

The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2420 Posts

Posted - 12 Jun 2018 :  03:29:54  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

I think I'd go with a "torment of tyrants" or a "spectrum of beholders".



I like torment, but spectrum alludes to a light... I'm guessing you're going for something about the eyes, but to me its more like spectrum means the source of light not its endpiont.
Go to Top of Page

The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2420 Posts

Posted - 12 Jun 2018 :  03:35:48  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Beholders living in "hives" has many sources in FR, the actual den of such a hive sometimes being called "warrens." It also comes from 1st & 2nd Ed AD&D sources and spelljammer... most likely there are a couple Dragon Mag articles as well but that's just a guess.
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 12 Jun 2018 :  04:44:59  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've suggested a goggle of beholders, in the past. Or maybe a glare.

Or flock. That is my general collective term for just about anything.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2420 Posts

Posted - 12 Jun 2018 :  05:51:47  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like goggle - like a gaggle with many eyes :P
Go to Top of Page

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6641 Posts

Posted - 12 Jun 2018 :  10:08:58  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A tyranny of beholders?

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 12 Jun 2018 :  10:47:54  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

A tyranny of beholders?

-- George Krashos



That's a good one.

But how about an eyeful of beholders?

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7966 Posts

Posted - 12 Jun 2018 :  13:08:40  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The "black cover" 2E Monster Manual (TSR 2140B) has a large section on beholders and beholder-kin. In which the plural is passingly referenced as a "cluster of beholders".

A "float of beholders" also sounds pretty good to me. Old Monster Manuals assert that "sphere of many eyes" and "eye tyrant" are (supposedly) more common names for these monsters than "beholder", although 2E later defined "eye tyrant" as a specific subspecies. So maybe a "globe of beholders". Or even an "orbit of beholders" (if you like double-entendres).

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 12 Jun 2018 13:09:35
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2024 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000