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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3285 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Jun 2018 : 15:22:28
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http://comicbook.com/gaming/2018/06/04/dungeons-and-dragons-fifth-edition-campaign-settings/
More settings next year... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2018 : 18:28:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
http://comicbook.com/gaming/2018/06/04/dungeons-and-dragons-fifth-edition-campaign-settings/
More settings next year...
Hm. Even though they've mentioned Spelljammer, my money is on Greyhawk and Dark Sun. As much as I myself love the Spelljammer -- my username comes from there! -- I recognize that there were issues with the way the setting was presented and it was not the most popular of TSR's many settings.
Now if they surprise me and go for Spelljammer, I'll be the first in line to buy that book -- I am a Realms junkie, now, but Spelljammer was my first love of D&D settings.
Honestly, though, I'm surprised they've not gone back to the well with Greyhawk, yet. It's one of the oldest D&D settings* and I'd wager to say it's got more fans than the Realms does.
*(I think Blackmoor is older) |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2018 : 20:02:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
http://comicbook.com/gaming/2018/06/04/dungeons-and-dragons-fifth-edition-campaign-settings/
More settings next year...
so maybe Dark Sun and spelljammer? Can't say I'm enthused by dark sun, but I know plenty liked it. Spelljammer however, it always had untapped potential. I won't say I ever played it however, because at the time I didn't have the money for the numerous systems TSR was rolling out left and right. My knowledge of spelljammer has been the most basic, with more information learned in the last 5 years than ever before. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2018 : 21:33:42
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
http://comicbook.com/gaming/2018/06/04/dungeons-and-dragons-fifth-edition-campaign-settings/
More settings next year...
so maybe Dark Sun and spelljammer? Can't say I'm enthused by dark sun, but I know plenty liked it. Spelljammer however, it always had untapped potential. I won't say I ever played it however, because at the time I didn't have the money for the numerous systems TSR was rolling out left and right. My knowledge of spelljammer has been the most basic, with more information learned in the last 5 years than ever before.
Spelljammer is the only setting that I've gotten every single product for. Even for the Realms, I've disregarded some novels and ignored the Maztica stuff. (Though in both cases, I've built my collection twice. And my collection of Planescape stuff is pretty much as close to complete as can be reasonably expected) |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2018 : 23:07:04
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| When it comes to Planescape... the contradictions between the editions are so enormous (or at least they seem that way to me). Maybe 5e will make the difference that sticks. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
954 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2018 : 02:17:10
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| I could easily see them folding Spelljammer a bit into Planescape, giving us Spelljammer light -- some basic rules about the ships and spheres without really developing the "setting" as it were while opening the floodgates on DM's Guild. |
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Marco Volo
Learned Scribe
France
201 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2018 : 11:22:18
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quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
I could easily see them folding Spelljammer a bit into Planescape, giving us Spelljammer light -- some basic rules about the ships and spheres without really developing the "setting" as it were while opening the floodgates on DM's Guild.
And Chris Perkins just teased that Halaster will have something spelljamming in Dungeon of the Mad Mage... |
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Gelcur
Senior Scribe
502 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2018 : 16:02:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Marco Volo
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
I could easily see them folding Spelljammer a bit into Planescape, giving us Spelljammer light -- some basic rules about the ships and spheres without really developing the "setting" as it were while opening the floodgates on DM's Guild.
And Chris Perkins just teased that Halaster will have something spelljamming in Dungeon of the Mad Mage...
Just take my money already.
I've always loved how Spelljamming is teased (and just blatantly there) all over the Realms material. Makes it always seem like there is more secrets to unveil. |
The party come to a town befallen by hysteria
Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good. |
Edited by - Gelcur on 05 Jun 2018 16:02:52 |
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Balmar Foghaven
Learned Scribe
Canada
124 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2018 : 19:34:14
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| Here I was looking at the features included in the platinum box, then I notice the price tag... O_O |
"Despair not, for in the end all things shall work out for the best - in at least one timeline." |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2018 : 23:28:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Marco Volo
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
I could easily see them folding Spelljammer a bit into Planescape, giving us Spelljammer light -- some basic rules about the ships and spheres without really developing the "setting" as it were while opening the floodgates on DM's Guild.
And Chris Perkins just teased that Halaster will have something spelljamming in Dungeon of the Mad Mage...
Probably took it from stardock. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
768 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2018 : 23:20:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Halaster didn't blow himself. The Twisted Rune interfered with his spell to prevent the Spellplague at the end of 3e. Yeah, that crap was WotC's version of his death.
Yup. Because Halaster somehow foresaw the Spellplague, even though the gods didn't. 
Since when were the gods of the Realms the infallible all-seeing type of gods? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2018 : 23:55:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Caolin
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Halaster didn't blow himself. The Twisted Rune interfered with his spell to prevent the Spellplague at the end of 3e. Yeah, that crap was WotC's version of his death.
Yup. Because Halaster somehow foresaw the Spellplague, even though the gods didn't.
Since when were the gods of the Realms the infallible all-seeing type of gods?
Who said anything about infallible or all-seeing?
What I question is how a mortal can see what's going to happen to the gods, when those gods -- especially the god of divination -- are blind to what's coming. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 06 Jun 2018 23:56:58 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2018 : 00:52:26
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| iirc, Halaster survived the Spellplague thanks to his clones. I have to read that dragon article again... |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Gelcur
Senior Scribe
502 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2018 : 05:38:28
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| Oh I think I missed that dragon article. Link? Or magazine number? |
The party come to a town befallen by hysteria
Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good. |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2018 : 07:19:45
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Dragon 409, the article is named "Character Themes: Citizens of Splendor".
The article doesn't say what happened to Halaster, just that his essence scattered throughout the planes, and he could not return to one of his clones before the Spellplague. The Spellplague struck and Halaster was reduced to a consciousness within his clones. Most of the clones were altered as well (the clones have their own will now, and can be of any race and sex).
His clones are awake and active in the current year (one or more players can be a Halaster clone) and perhaps one of them is Halaster himself.
Well, we know Halaster has returned, so... |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 07 Jun 2018 07:26:34 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2018 : 22:40:32
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4 people meet
I'm Halaster...
No, I'm Halaster...
No, I'm the REAL Halaster...
Um, I'm Manshoon
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2018 : 07:19:53
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Agreed - TOOO SIMILAR TO THE MANSHOON WARS. Come up with an original plot please :)
Also, since when does Halaster have multiple clones waiting? He used projection magic to be in multiple places at once. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2018 : 16:32:40
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Agreed - TOOO SIMILAR TO THE MANSHOON WARS. Come up with an original plot please :)
Also, since when does Halaster have multiple clones waiting? He used projection magic to be in multiple places at once.
I don't have an issue with Halaster having clones, myself, but the way WotC handled it is just wrong. Clones that aren't the same race or gender? No, just no.
What I would have done, given what they did to Halaster in 3E (which I also disagreed with): they said that his soul basically fractured... So those new "Halaster clones" aren't really clones, they're shards of his soul that bonded to other souls, and/or were reborn. So these "Halaster clones" aren't copies of Halaster, but they might have some (not all!) of his memories or skills. One clone, for example, might not know how to create portals or even cast spells, but you put him in front of a portal and he can tell you how to activate it or where it goes.
And some of the soulshards stayed in Undermountain, and eventually drifted back to Halaster's actual prepared clone, awakening it and bringing back the Mad Mage.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 10 Jun 2018 16:33:45 |
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Lirdolin
Learned Scribe
Germany
194 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2018 : 18:08:34
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I have no problems with Halaster having clones (even The Ruins of Undermountain Campaign Guide on pg.106 already says that he probably stored clones of himself) even gender and racial changed ones (who knows what he transformed his body into when he created a clone, he is the Mad Mage after all). And being a clone 'kid'/ pc hero of Halaster bears probably as many problems as merits, now that 'Daddy' is home again.
I'm wondering if they will work in the changes brought about by the Spellplague (like the Walking Statues all over the City, or new locations mentioned in the novels). It would be sad if they presented a book that states something like "Everthing is back to Pre-Spellplague." |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2018 : 12:42:14
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Ed wrote a post-Spellplague Waterdeep “bible” for WotC for the Ed Greenwood Presents ... novel series. I’m assuming that forms the basis of this product.
— George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2018 : 14:48:13
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Ed wrote a post-Spellplague Waterdeep “bible” for WotC for the Ed Greenwood Presents ... novel series. I’m assuming that forms the basis of this product.
— George Krashos
I still want to get my hands on that, even though I know parts of it are no longer valid. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Gelcur
Senior Scribe
502 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2018 : 20:45:16
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So has anyone gotten their copy yet? Mine is still a few days out in the post. But online reviews seem promising.
Though I did notice they have a stylized Yawning Portal... bad picture. So now we have yet another layout, apparently there are 3 floors of bar? Maybe they did renovations. |
The party come to a town befallen by hysteria
Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2018 : 00:50:09
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| ah, it had been over 100 years.... I can see renovations. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3285 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2018 : 02:26:30
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| I got a copy on Wednesday. It was fun putting names to faces! |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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farinal
Learned Scribe
Turkey
270 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2018 : 16:27:43
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| Mine is still on the way ! |
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Gelcur
Senior Scribe
502 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2018 : 06:42:21
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Alright I have mine in hand. Take everything with a grain of salt since I haven't read every page yet. The text description of the Yawning Portal and the more realistic art in the book still have the bar/well as only on the first floor. So I'm guessing the cartoony art was just to be able to fit all those NPCs.
Overall the book has a lot of good content and some interesting Waterdeep info. All the walking statues are named and described, I think that is a first. 20+ holidays are listed and described, many of which I'm sure we have info on already but they are all gathered in one place and there may be a new one or two in there. Coinage has been updated a bit and has some nice pictures. The book is full of great art throughout, a few double page spreads.
Secret Lords and noble houses are left out mostly, aside from one noble house that can be chosen as the main villain. The book does focus on the current power struggles in the city with several groups of influence. Even the Lord's Alliance is used in the adventure a bit which I always thought was an underused/underrepresented in the past. And the guilds do play some minor roles here and there.
The adventure, not a heist at all but a treasure hunt, seems like it will be fun. But after the first chapter you need a good DM to pull all the content together. Picking one of four villains and each villain getting their own season is nice. I really wish we got to play out an adventure over the course of a year and see ALL the seasons and thwart multiple villains. The adventure isn't replayable but it does leave you with extra content you can use for other things.
Overall the book has a lot of details but the lore seems a bit shallow, there is a lot packed into these pages but it is by no means a must have book for Waterdeep. If you would like to run the quest, the updated info on the city is nice. If you don't care for the quest you are probably better off buying Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide and getting most the same updated info, without stats (who needs those), plus info for many other areas. |
The party come to a town befallen by hysteria
Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good. |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2018 : 20:32:35
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
ah, it had been over 100 years.... I can see renovations.
There is not much really. The FRCG says besides they new four Wards, the old maps are useful for current Waterdeep. It seems that hasn't changed in 5e ¨—well, is only ten years since 4e, so... plus, most NPCs from 3.x are still alive, so not even changes in NPCs... |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2018 : 01:39:36
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Here's my two nibs worth, since I've been browsing my copy today.
If you're getting Dragon Heist for lore, I'd wait for a sale. I'm having fun with the product, but it's so lore light it's borderline disappointing for me, which probably means it'll be a major disappointment to many here. I've found things that are new to me, but that could very well be because I've not processed all the other Waterdhavian stuff to the point I can look at anything "new" and go, "that's recycled from the boxed set" or "from Volo's Guide."
I did like the DM's map for the fact it laid out some of the outlying farms, I don't recall that being a prominent feature before. I could be wrong. I'm not sure what new material the map was supposed to bring without changing the street layout altogether aside from that, though.
I do like that we got stats for Jarlaxle and a few other characters. I almost laughed when I saw Volo's CR, I find it fitting and amusing, as a sort of snide joke.
On a positive note, being lore lite as it is, it helps me, honestly. As much as I do thoroughly enjoy Waterdeep, with the Volo's Guides and Boxed Sets of the past, I find myself sitting and staring at a huge smorgasboard and not reading anything simply because I'm overwhelmed with delightful choices. As comical as it may seem, I feel like a dehydrated man coming out of the desert, finding water in abundance, and passing out from just sheer delight.
This lore light gives me a starting point, it's the kind soul bringing the desert dweller a cup of water and a straw. It narrows things down for me to where I can pick something from the Volo's Enchiridion in the back, and then start perusing the indexes and tables of contents of prior books for more details. It makes the old stuff still relevant, if I want it to be, as well as keeps things simple if I need to strip it down.
It's not for everyone, but it has its fun moments.
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- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
Edited by - Delwa on 21 Sep 2018 01:53:36 |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2018 : 03:05:57
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Good evening Great Reader Irennan,
I hope you're amenable to my reply to this within the framework of business analysis. If not, please let me know, and I will delete my post. I really feel that sadly in this case, it all comes down to the bottom line, though I do share your zeal for the idea of fresh, untapped areas of the Realms. Some caveats though regarding my analysis, first: though I am a marketer and economist by education and practice in business, I do not have access to anything internal to WotC, so my assumptions are just that: assumptions.
As many have eluded to in the past, there were reported beliefs from marketing analysis conducted, that in order to prepare for development of the next market segment of customers into the future, they had to appeal to them. As many came to believe, 4th edition had a powerful sense of a tabletop RPG with a strong angle towards appealing to MMORPG'ers, as much as possible (I'm not saying that is good or bad, just neutrally commenting, and again just making assumptions here: no first hand knowledge). One of the chief complaints, supposedly, from that market cohort of 13 to 20 year olds from interviews and focus groups, was that they felt the Realms material had too high of a buy-in to assimilate due to the vast knowledge base of the existing Realms. In effect, that market segment, demographically and psychographically, did not want to feel like "noobs." Not a judgment again, rather, just an assumption that the marketing department was analyzing and trying to make what they believed were informed decisions in how to place their products in front of that up and coming generation of potential new customers.
If that assumption is correct based on market research they may have conducted, it would stand to reason that any additional development of 'fluff' material would only stand to increase the divide between current and potential, new future users. Since WotC wants to know that they are going to sell those printed assets, they want to make sure they are accurate in advance. The issue though is that us Realms lovers, didn't respond well to that production response for 4th (as evidenced by their sales records) and they had to go into emergency mode.
My interpretation of things now is, they are still slow walking things. They are producing the same material in 5th, that is effectively on par with what was printed in 3/3.5 (though they are even still deficit when compared to things such as 'The Lost Empires of Faerun', etc.). I honestly feel that WotC is reticent to print materials that are comprehensive, and even more engrossing, when they likely have other product lines that they have in the pipeline for future production. Anything that they see as a potential barrier to enter is going to make them leery to produce those items.
I completely agree with you though man: I would love to see them dive into relatively not discussed areas such as Lapaliiya, Thar, Nelanther Isles, or fill-in the blank location.
Heck, I think it would be fantastic if they would generate even greater depth and breadth of material on the soft sciences such as economics, sociological studies, philosophy, and even some more hard science material for flora/fauna and more. Who could ever tire of such a thing?!
Thank you for your post Great Reader Irennan: I love discussions like this, and the freedom to post on things that some may even see as a sensitive subject, potentially.
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Hey, at least the world's not exploding for the 743668734th time. That aside, the Sword Coast has been overdone, true, but I'm a huge Waterdeep fan, I loved Death Masks (current time Waterdeep), and Ed seems to be involved in this, so I'll keep an eye on it.
I only hope it won't end like the MToF. I was so excited for that book, and it ended up being an immense letdown. I hope they don't warp Waterdeep.
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2018 : 03:17:57
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Re: your point about appealing to future customer bases, and 4e being marketed to MMORPGers, a TTRPG will never offer the same kind of immediate satisfaction that a VG does, and between playing a VG and D&D, someone who wants a VG-like experience will play a VG. Emulating VGs is not something that TTRPGs do well, their strength is the kind of freedom and story/world depth that it can offer.
I was supposedly part of the target audience for 4e FR, but I was not attracted by it in the slightest. In fact, I was turned away and led to seek previous FR products. Then again, the approach of 5e is different: both rule-wise, and Realms-wise, and 5e is as popular as D&D has ever got, so I guess that--unlike 4e--they're doing things right, from a business standpoint. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Waterdeep: Dragon Heist & Dungeon of the Mad Mage
