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 Which of FR main heroes have been raised?
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Grisix
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Posted - 29 Apr 2018 :  21:09:30  Show Profile  Visit Grisix's Homepage Send Grisix a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
I know of Bruenor being raised from the dead.

Which of the others main realms heroes have been raised from the dead at one point or another?


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Storyteller Hero
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Posted - 29 Apr 2018 :  21:12:23  Show Profile  Visit Storyteller Hero's Homepage Send Storyteller Hero a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Pharaun Myzzrym, who perished in the War of the Spider Queen, and was brought back during the Empyrean Odyssey.







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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 29 Apr 2018 :  22:26:30  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I believe it was Volo's Guide to Waterdeep that said that Nain Keenwhistler had a record for the most times being brought back from the dead. Our lovely Hooded One once said

quote:
Gelcur, I believe it's over 20 (the number of Nain's resurrections). The character, played by Ken Woods (co-founder and -owner of the increasingly famous Black Oak microbrewery, of Oakville, Ontario), had an unfortunate habit of getting killed in company adventures. A lot.
This "habit" became something of a black humour standing joke amongst Ed's players at the time (before my time). Ed kept detailed written play-by-play logbooks in those days, written out in longhand DURING PLAY. I've seen some of them, and one recurring phrase is ". . . killing Nain. Again."
love,
THO

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Lord Karsus
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Posted - 30 Apr 2018 :  02:12:15  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-Captain Fflar was "famously" resurrected in the Last Mythal books.

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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

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Posted - 30 Apr 2018 :  02:23:28  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Isis resurrected Osiris after the Orcgate Wars in -1048 following a powers struggle with Horus (who becomes Horus-Re).

Quenthal Baenre of Menzoberranzan was killed by Drizzt only to be resurrected 4 years later in 1361 DR.

Duke Eltan and Scar of Baldur's Gate are killed by the Bhaalspawn and resurrected in 1368 DR.

Zalathorm, leader of Halruaa, is resurrected in 1371 DR.

Flar the hero of the Fall of Myth Drannor is resurrected in 1373 DR.

All, but the first take place as a result of books or video games involving the Realms.

Scyulla Drakhope dies in 1375 DR and it is noted that Fzoul comments she will never be resurrected again. For that matter, I believe Fzoul was resurrected more than once, while Manshoon had all of his clones.

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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

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Posted - 30 Apr 2018 :  06:01:47  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Farideh, Havilar and Dumuzi, from the Brimstone Angels saga, got dead and resurrected in the last book.

Wasn't Elminster resurrected as well? I mean, all the plot with his many times grand-daughther.




Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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Grisix
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Posted - 30 Apr 2018 :  23:38:31  Show Profile  Visit Grisix's Homepage Send Grisix a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for all the info! Really curious now about Elminster himself... Was he ever resurrected, or Taern Hornblade or Lady or Lady Alustriel?

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sleyvas
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Posted - 01 May 2018 :  12:47:54  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
They are all dead now due to the occurrences down in Chult.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Grisix
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Posted - 01 May 2018 :  21:51:32  Show Profile  Visit Grisix's Homepage Send Grisix a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

They are all dead now due to the occurrences down in Chult.


This is where I am going with this question, but my campaign is set at the start of the effects from Tomb of Annihilation, so I am trying to build a timeline of dying heroes...

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sleyvas
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Posted - 01 May 2018 :  23:37:32  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, I figured as much from the phrasing.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sfdragon
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2218 Posts

Posted - 02 May 2018 :  00:51:28  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd like to point out that elminster was not resurrected, he hada new body reconstituted by mystra.

so the death curse is not going to affect the old sage of shadowdale and some odd ranked man of waterdeep

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


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sleyvas
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Posted - 02 May 2018 :  08:48:01  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So Elminster was never raised? After all we don't know the full aspect of how the mechanics of what went down in Chult works. Does it follow the soul or the physical body? If someone died and came back in a clone body does that stop it? What about resurrection which creates a new body whole cloth if the old body is gone?

That being said, the mechanics of what went down in Chult are so vastly reaching that in my viewpoint if we were to REALLY sit down and see its affects on the realms we'd be looking at another RSE equivalent to the changes in the spellplague. I didn't raise an outcry here because for the most part half the people here would be "ah, that's 5e, what do I care". Honestly, it was a stupid thing done by the designers to make it so overarching of a storyline. Therefore, I sit here with my blinders on and choose to think to myself that the effects were somehow selective and not all encompassing. Maybe it was anyone returned to life by a certain reading of raise dead (because they may all be the same level, but there are bound to be different variations on the casting performed by different religions or pantheons or regions of the realms). This would mean that I could select how and who I want affected, and not care about having to figure out everyone.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sfdragon
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Posted - 02 May 2018 :  09:56:28  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
the death curse only effects those who were brought back to life via raise dead or resurrection.
clone ressuerection and divine intervention is not under the curse.. or atleast how I make it out

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


My FR fan fiction
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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1110 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2018 :  01:45:05  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It also affects liches (they cannot resurrect when destroyed during the Death Curse event), that's why Tam is interested in the Soulmonger.

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

That being said, the mechanics of what went down in Chult are so vastly reaching that in my viewpoint if we were to REALLY sit down and see its affects on the realms we'd be looking at another RSE equivalent to the changes in the spellplague.


All 5e adventures have been RSEs, however. I guess the only not RSE adventure is Tales.

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

I didn't raise an outcry here because for the most part half the people here would be "ah, that's 5e, what do I care". Honestly, it was a stupid thing done by the designers to make it so overarching of a storyline. Therefore, I sit here with my blinders on and choose to think to myself that the effects were somehow selective and not all encompassing. Maybe it was anyone returned to life by a certain reading of raise dead (because they may all be the same level, but there are bound to be different variations on the casting performed by different religions or pantheons or regions of the realms). This would mean that I could select how and who I want affected, and not care about having to figure out everyone.



AFAIK, at the start of the story you have many days to save people. So, if you want to save people, you technically can.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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sleyvas
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Posted - 03 May 2018 :  13:00:07  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Its good in these kinds of situations where we're discussing stuff like this to have the actual text on hand. So, here's what I see "Any humanoid on the planet that has been brought back from the dead begins to waste away". By literal translation, that would mean if Elminster had EVER been raised, he would be being affected. Also, clones would be affected, because in order to transfer to another body, you have to die and "be willing to return from the dead".

From the 5e Clone spell
At any time after the clone matures, if the original creature dies, its soul transfers to the clone, provided that the soul is free and willing to return.

Understanding how Acererak’s death curse works is vital to running the adventure smoothly.

The Soulmonger was activated 20 days ago and remains active until it is destroyed. While the Soulmonger is active, the following effects are in play: Any humanoid on the planet that has been brought back from the dead begins to waste away. Its hit point maximum is reduced by 20 (1 for each day the Soulmonger has been active) and decreases by 1 every midnight until the Soulmonger is destroyed. If a humanoid’s hit point maximum drops to 0, it dies. Traveling to another world or plane does nothing to halt the wasting effect once it has begun.

A humanoid whose hit point maximum is reduced can’t increase or restore it. This is true whether the creature’s hit point maximum is reduced by the Soulmonger or by some other life-draining effect, such as the touch of a wight, wraith, or similar creature. If a humanoid dies anywhere on the planet, its soul becomes trapped inside the Soulmonger. Only the destruction of the Soulmonger can free the trapped soul.

Any spell that breathes life into the dead (including revivify, raise dead, resurrection, and true resurrection) automatically fails if cast on a humanoid whose soul is either trapped in the Soulmonger or has been devoured by the atropal (see “Soul Devouring” below). The Soulmonger does not affect the workings of speak with dead spells or similar magic. The death curse has no effect on preexisting ghosts or spirits.


@ZeroMaru X - Yeah, I have to admit the first umpteen modules, I only recently bought due to hearing of bad plots. The only one that I actually got and really looked at was Storm King's Thunder (still haven't read it all the way through), but I really liked it for its realmslore section. I want to actually look at the out of the abyss stuff, though I am a little less jazzed because it sounds like maybe they through a lot of demon lords into the underdark.... maybe not... I can buy one. I did read through the Chult module as well. I think they've finally found their format to get and keep people like me. I did pick up the earlier dragon and elemental evil stuff. I've skimmed them. How much of an RSE they are... dunno.... but the Chult thing means any NPC with less than 20 hit points is dead automatically, and I'd figure on any adventuring group solving said adventure would be spending weeks to achieve it, because days might be spent travelling, searching, etc... I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up taking say 40 days... which means anyone with 60 hit points or less is toast (and anyone who had their hit point maximum reduced by some kind of assault during that time, such as level draining, might also be affected). So, let's assume for a second that the average 5e wizard has 4.5 hit points per level.... we're basically saying that most mages of say 13th level or less who have ever been brought back from the dead are gone.... and I would be surprised to find any wizard of 13th level who HASN'T been brought back at least once somehow in true gameplay, but even in the unrealistic game world, I'd still bet at least 1/2 have been brought back via revivify or something more powerful.

This is why I choose to say that "the explanation above is flawed somehow, and its only some individuals" and I leave said explanation fluid such that individual DM's can explain it how they want. For instance, maybe its only someone who was raised in the past year, past decade, or past century. Maybe its only someone who was raised using rituals created by a priest of Myrkul, Velsharoon, Bhaal, Kiaransalee, Jergal, Ereshkigal, Nergal, Orcus, and/or similar deities.... or conversely only those raised by gods of light or somesuch. Maybe its only individuals who were raised within a certain area.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 03 May 2018 13:06:00
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Grisix
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Posted - 03 May 2018 :  15:50:24  Show Profile  Visit Grisix's Homepage Send Grisix a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"Both Manshoon and Fzoul were killed many times. Manshoon returns to life by the means of a secret spell-"Stasis clone". Manshoon is known to have many clones hidden in secret places. Fzoul was resurrected by the Zhentarim/Bane because he is such a "valuable" person. Even Sememmon was resurrected by Manshoon a couple of times.

To Conclude this:

All Three leaders of the Zhentarim(The inner circle)returned from death by various means."
FAQ candlekeep.com (added for reference on this topic)

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Grisix
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Posted - 03 May 2018 :  16:19:52  Show Profile  Visit Grisix's Homepage Send Grisix a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Any spell that breathes life into the dead (including revivify, raise dead, resurrection, and true resurrection) automatically fails if cast on a humanoid whose soul is either trapped in the Soulmonger or has been devoured by the atropal (see “Soul Devouring” below)...



is there some kind of interpretation possible about the length of time between the death event and the soul becoming trapped in the Soulmonger?


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sfdragon
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Posted - 04 May 2018 :  03:42:56  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
ummm also I don't remember bruenor batlehammer dying in battle.

old age yes, but not dying of battle,

he like the rest of the companions of the hall were reincarnated by mielikki and were done b4 the accerak era

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234
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sleyvas
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Posted - 04 May 2018 :  13:46:34  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon

ummm also I don't remember bruenor batlehammer dying in battle.

old age yes, but not dying of battle,

he like the rest of the companions of the hall were reincarnated by mielikki and were done b4 the accerak era



Any humanoid who has been brought back from the dead. According to the statements made, it doesn't matter if its a clone, a deity recreated body, etc... If they died and they came back... it affects them.

Interestingly enough though... note the statement... any HUMANOID... so dragons... unaffected... aberrations, beasts, giants, celestials, constructs, elementals, fey, fiends, monstrosities, oozes, plants ... unaffected. So, things like centaurs, wemics, and various giants that we don't necessarily think of as "giants" and certain fey that we might think of as humanoids normally.

I wouldn't be surprised if in fact the story gets circulated that Kiaransalee/Ereshkigal/The Raven Queen isn't behind all of this. After all, no one needs to know the truth.

However, despite the loophole above, the RSE factor would be for humanoids. I still think that creating some kind of loophole in it would be what works best for the game world.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
581 Posts

Posted - 04 May 2018 :  18:06:22  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I thought Bruenor died in the Two Swords. It's not completely clear if he actually died or not though. But he definitely died in Gauntlgrym with Pwent. Nevertheless, I don't know if any of the companions would be affected as they weren't really resurrected so much as reborn.


Also we know the from the pseudo-official Guild Adept adventure Return of the Lizard King that the Death Curse extended into the Feywild and affected fey.
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sleyvas
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Posted - 04 May 2018 :  23:02:59  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta

I thought Bruenor died in the Two Swords. It's not completely clear if he actually died or not though. But he definitely died in Gauntlgrym with Pwent. Nevertheless, I don't know if any of the companions would be affected as they weren't really resurrected so much as reborn.


Also we know the from the pseudo-official Guild Adept adventure Return of the Lizard King that the Death Curse extended into the Feywild and affected fey.




I will add the addendum that I haven't gotten all that far to the point that I would have read of the return of the Companions. However, its my basic understanding that they did die, and they were "returned from the dead" possibly by Mielikki.

The statement in the module doesn't say "raised". It doesn't say "resurrected". It doesn't say "revived". Basically, it doesn't specify the "how" required for someone having returned. It says:

Any humanoid on the planet that has been brought back from the dead begins to waste away.

Now, granted depending on how many days passed, higher level folks probably had enough hit points to resist things. However, that being said, many high level characters may have found themselves suddenly very weak, and some of their enemies who were unaffected by this "drain" (say a tribe of giants, or a dragon, or a beholder they pissed off) may have taken advantage and killed them off.

Again, I don't LIKE this concept, but this is what was written. I'd much rather there be some more "parameters" around this drain. Something like only those who were returned from the dead in the last year or even decade. Maybe only those affected by revivify and raise dead in the last hundred years, but resurrection, cloning, etc.. is unaffected.

Guild Adept adventure?? So, something on DM's Guild? That stuff isn't supposed to be canon as I understood it. That being said, so you say it spanned planes? Even the current wording above confined it to Toril and not the other worlds in realmspace. Also, are we sure it affected fey (for instance, elves aren't fey, they're humanoids)? Now, some of it I do take as semi-canon (such as the work Seethyr's doing in Maztica). By semi-canon, I mean I respect the work and TRY to work around it such that what I do won't make his work untrue. However, that purely comes down to

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 04 May 2018 23:09:34
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
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Posted - 05 May 2018 :  01:11:32  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Companions weren't really brought back though. They were reborn into new bodies. Their cognizant souls placed within babies at or before birth by Mielikki, which doesn't mean they aren't affected by the Death Curse. I think they clearly fall into some gray area.
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sfdragon
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Posted - 05 May 2018 :  02:01:59  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
that is what I was saying or trying to. they died of an accident or 2 , in battle or by old age.


why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234
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Balmar Foghaven
Learned Scribe

Canada
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Posted - 09 May 2018 :  16:13:55  Show Profile Send Balmar Foghaven a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I imagine that even if the likes of Elminster were to be killed as a result of the death curse, they would be subsequently restored to life by magic once it was over. Not a big deal for our main heroes, mostly a thorn in the side of PCs and a definite threat to the nameless masses of low level NPCs.

"Despair not, for in the end all things shall work out for the best - in at least one timeline."
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Mirtek
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Posted - 09 May 2018 :  19:19:38  Show Profile Send Mirtek a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Frankly, if Accerak can whip up the soul monger, a lot of similiar knowledgable wizards can surely whip up some anti soul monger protection (or at least extension) for at least themselves. The just don't go around sharing it.

Then there are certainly some deities who simply object Accerak messing up their favorite toys and simply block the influence of the soul monger on certain servants.


Edited by - Mirtek on 09 May 2018 19:20:35
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sleyvas
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Posted - 09 May 2018 :  21:27:23  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The big names aren't necessarily the problem. So, let's say there's 1 "Elminster" type for every 5000 wizards of level 13 or less (and yes, I pulled that number out of the air). Now, let's assume that half of those wizards have AT LEAST had revivify used on them where they dropped in combat and were brought back right away (but many have had raise dead or resurrection or something else similar). All of a sudden 2500 of those wizards are dead due to the soulmonger. However, the monsters of the world aren't affected in a similar way (including giants, fey, undead, aberrations, monstrosities, etc...). What happens to the balance of power in the world. Its not like Elminster's going to just pick up the workload of 2500 other wizards. To further add fuel to this fire, with a rise in monster power will also come a loss of those surviving wizards. In the end, it results in mass death throughout the world in all societies.

Again, that's with this AS WRITTEN. There really should be some caveats.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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