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Icelander
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Posted - 05 Apr 2018 :  21:32:13  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
As far as I can tell, there are a lot fewer Orcish words in fictional dictionaries for the Forgotten Realms than there are Drow or Elven. I'm trying to come up with some words that I can't find on the wiki article for FR Orcish dictionary.

I'm looking for words like:

Dragon
Dragon's Bane
Rage
Priest
Sect, cult or order
Son
Prince
Lord, baron or duke
Undying
Farseer
Prophet
Prophecy
Court
Throne
Sword
Polearm, glaive, bill or halberd
Ancestor/s
Descendant of

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Edited by - Icelander on 05 Apr 2018 21:34:14

Markustay
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Posted - 06 Apr 2018 :  00:19:45  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I know somewhere in the lore there is either a dwarf word for excrement, or an orcish one, and they both the use the word to describe members of the other race. I can never remember where it was though, and I've even come across it in stories.

There are a bunch of 'orcish' words in the novel Sentinelspire, as well as Lythari/Elvish ones. The only problem is is that you don't know if the Orc is actually speaking orcish, or Vassan (where he is from), or a dialect of Orcish from Vassa. And the reason why its so hard to figure out where the author was going with all that is because the Lythari elves seem to have their own language as well, that doesn't appear to be related to Elven elsewhere (so is that a Lythari dialect, or is it a Taan regional language?) Its a shame, because the author did a great job of making his characters flavorful by adding all that language in, but we just can't tell its roots.

Unfortunately, we've never gotten a sourcebook on goblinoids/Orcs, which would have been cool. And the author who uses orcs the most - RAS - doesn't really seem all that interesting in making up language (thus, in his books, a 'son' would just be called 'son' in English). On the other hand, we should probably thank our lucky stars we don't have an orcish language written by RAS.

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Edited by - Markustay on 06 Apr 2018 15:21:19
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Storyteller Hero
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Posted - 06 Apr 2018 :  01:19:28  Show Profile  Visit Storyteller Hero's Homepage Send Storyteller Hero a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dragon Magazine #75, page 54 has an article that includes a long list of words in Orcish.


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sleyvas
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Posted - 06 Apr 2018 :  02:53:08  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
zug zug

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LordofBones
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Posted - 06 Apr 2018 :  02:58:28  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Lok'tar Ogar.
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

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Posted - 06 Apr 2018 :  10:51:25  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I know somewhere in the lore there is either a dwarf word for excrement, or an orcish one, and they both the use the word to describe members of the other race. I can never remember where it was though, and I've even come across it in stories.

You might be thinking of the dwarven term 'sargh', which means 'disgusting thing' and is used to mean 'orcs' and 'orcish work'. From Dwarves Deep.

Orcs apparently call dwarves 'dglinkarz', which is definitely derogatory, but unfortunately, I don't know the exact meaning or the etymology. It's from James Lowder's Crusade.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

There are a bunch of 'orcish' words in the novel Sentinelspire, as well as Lythari/Elvish ones. The only problem is is that you don't know if the Orc is actually speaking orcish, or Vassan (where he is from), or a dialect of Orcish from Vassa. And the reason why its so hard to figure out where the author was going with all that is because the Lythari elves seem to have their own language as well, that doesn't appear to be related to Elven elsewhere (so is that a Lythari dialect, or is it a Taan regional language?) Its a shame, because the author did a great job of making his characters flavorful by adding all that language in, but we just can't tell its roots.

Well, while we haven't got any other orcish words, I'll use the ones from Sentinelspire as general orcish terms, as long as they don't contradict other lore.

They seem fine to me. I'd just like a much wider selection of words.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Unfortunately, we've never gotten a sourcebook on goblnoids/Orcs, which would have been cool. And the author who uses orcs the most - RAS - doesn't really seem all that interesting in making up language (thus, in his books, a 'son' would just be called 'son' in English). On the other hand, we should probably thank our lucky stars we don't have an orcish language written by RAS.

Ah, well, at I'm not demanding Tolkien-esque linguistic lore. Just flavourful words that can be used to pepper the speech of important orcish NPCs. As far as I can recall, when Salvatore was world-building in an exotic, non-human society, in Homeland, for instance, his uses of fictional languages were perfectly fine.

It's in societies that are closer to 'normal' for D&D he puts in eyesores like Heliogabalus (a Hellenic/Latinised transliteration of a Semitic name) the capital of Damaran-speaking Damara (which seems to have few or no connections to any culture where Latin, Greek or Semitic languages would make sense), Ambergris/Amber Gristle O'Maul, Pasha 'Pook' and suchlike.

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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 06 Apr 2018 :  13:44:29  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd say grab a Klingon dictionary and go from there. I'd expect orcish and Klingon to have a similar sound, to non-speakers.

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Icelander
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Posted - 06 Apr 2018 :  13:59:11  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I'd say grab a Klingon dictionary and go from there. I'd expect orcish and Klingon to have a similar sound, to non-speakers.


You would rather use Klingon than Tolkien's Black Speech, for example?

What about Warhammer or Warcraft orcish?

Would adopting words from that sound right?

To give a sense of what they are like, Black Speech for Dragon is 'kuldodar', Rage can be 'gnyja', 'sharohom' or 'tarbohom' and Lord is 'goth'.

Warcraft orcs seem to indicate 'Son/s of' as Mok', but oddly, even less dictionary material exists on WoW orcs than Realmsian ones.

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Icelander
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Posted - 06 Apr 2018 :  14:11:39  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Storyteller Hero

Dragon Magazine #75, page 54 has an article that includes a long list of words in Orcish.


Cool, thanks!

Of my list, I found Sword = 'dotak'.

Order = 'jendad' might be used, but I get the sense from the article that it refers to an 'order' in the sense of 'command, instruction' rather than a religious order.

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Markustay
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Posted - 06 Apr 2018 :  15:18:39  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not exactly FR (but then again, neither is that Dragon article) - you can probably find some words in the Mystara Gazeteer Orcs of Thar.

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I'd say grab a Klingon dictionary and go from there. I'd expect orcish and Klingon to have a similar sound, to non-speakers.

Well, given the connections Orcs have to Elves now, I'd say Romulan was probably closer to what we'd want (given THEIR connection to Vulcans).

However, there is no Romulan language (AFAIK), so yeah, Klingon will do.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 06 Apr 2018 15:20:45
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 06 Apr 2018 :  15:22:19  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I'd say grab a Klingon dictionary and go from there. I'd expect orcish and Klingon to have a similar sound, to non-speakers.


You would rather use Klingon than Tolkien's Black Speech, for example?



Not really... But if Shakespeare has been translated into Klingon, then there has to be a dictionary out there. I'm not aware of a Black Speech dictionary.

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Icelander
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Posted - 09 Apr 2018 :  00:45:39  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Icelander

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I'd say grab a Klingon dictionary and go from there. I'd expect orcish and Klingon to have a similar sound, to non-speakers.


You would rather use Klingon than Tolkien's Black Speech, for example?



Not really... But if Shakespeare has been translated into Klingon, then there has to be a dictionary out there. I'm not aware of a Black Speech dictionary.


Googling reveals an abundance.

I am concerned, however, whether Realmsian orcs ought to sound exactly like Tolkien's. Their names are not always similar sounding.

What might Obould mean in Orcish?

For that matter, to use names that EBON spits out as FR Orc and Goblinoid, what do the following names sound like they might mean in Orcish?

Urbakh
Yuraurgh
Kuuragh
Gharr
Othrag
Huthraug
Thaurl
Khurgh
Ughtrog

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sleyvas
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Posted - 09 Apr 2018 :  12:06:58  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander

For that matter, to use names that EBON spits out as FR Orc and Goblinoid, what do the following names sound like they might mean in Orcish?

Urbakh
Yuraurgh
Kuuragh
Gharr
Othrag
Huthraug
Thaurl
Khurgh
Ughtrog




Best to put it in a sentence for what it sounds like to me.

Wow, I think that goblin may have been sick. After I ate that roast leg of goblin, I had to go Ughtrog in the forest for an hour.

Yes, Thaurl Obudobin, I will do as you command.

Look at the Othrag on her, I'd like to drag her by the hair into the back of the cave and Gharr her for hours; but it would be my luck Thaurl Obudobin would find out.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

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Icelander
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Posted - 09 Apr 2018 :  15:07:28  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Best to put it in a sentence for what it sounds like to me.

Good idea.

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Wow, I think that goblin may have been sick. After I ate that roast leg of goblin, I had to go Ughtrog in the forest for an hour.

Yes, Thaurl Obudobin, I will do as you command.

Ughtrog is actually a half-orc, but his name is Orcish. He spent his first years in an orcish warren, the child of a female orcish smith and her human slave, who was a battle captive whose blacksmithing talents made him too valuable to kill.

When Ughtrog was a young child, his father managed to escape (possibly with the connivance of Ughtrog's mother) and take the child with him. Ughtrog's father died only a few years later, but Ughtrog was allowed to live at the temple where his father had sought healing for the illness that killed him, the Temple of Torm's Coming in Tantras. Ughtrog speaks fluent Orcish and has even visited his orcish family, but he's mostly the product of human society and is even a worshipper of Torm.

Gharr is a stolid, bulky orc sergeant who is usually gruff and harsh, but may be concealing some softer side, as he is known to be very attached to his mate, a priestess of Luthic, and utterly uninterested in any other females, even when away on campaign.

Thaurl is a young, tall, strong orc who is called Thaurl the Athlete for his endurance and running ability. He is an enthusiastic hunter and archer, somewhat of a pupil of Huthraug Skinwalker, the druid/shaman/ranger/something wilderness oriented and faintly mystical, who travels with the small band.

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Look at the Othrag on her, I'd like to drag her by the hair into the back of the cave and Gharr her for hours; but it would be my luck Thaurl Obudobin would find out.


Interesting that you should say that...

In my campaign, the eponymous Othrag is a young orcish warrior, born to Urbakh the Undying, a tribal chief who now claims to be a King of the orcs in the Earthfast Mountains (and perhaps he'll soon claim a title of King over the lands of ancient Vastar). He's travelling on a divine quest to Mount Grimmerfang, accompanied by his teacher, Yuraurgh Farseer, and a small group of scouts to act as his retinue and protection.

The PCs are travelling with them*, but Othrag's status was not made clear to them at the beginning. It was clear that he was extremely rich and well-fed for such a young warrior, given his gear and highly developed musculature, and he was better spoken and apparently more educated than many orcs, but it is only recently that it's been revealed that he is not only one of the many sons of Urbakh (in itself not that remarkable), but also being groomed as his eventual successor.

Othrag is unusual among orcs in that his features are fairly symmetrical and almost attractive, from a human point of view. Certainly harsh and intimidating features, like a person-shaped predator, but softened, at least for now, by being very young and away from home for the first time.

Among orcs, Othrag is viewed as an Adonis, being built like pulp Conan the Barbarian and having inherited a measure of his father's authority and charisma. While relatively sensitive and diplomatic for an orc**, that means that Othrag is about as subtle and sensible about mating rituals and his own appeal as a typical naturally gifted, handsome and successful high school football star in a small town where everyone has always treated him as semi-divine.

So, when some deft diplomacy and the payment of a huge sum of gold had allowed the mixed party of PCs and orcs to stay at the Inn of the Nine Swords in Swords Pool, in the Vast, and there were some very attractive human females there, some of them not wearing very much...

Well, the morning after, one PC strongly suspected that the severe bruising of the human female who had been acting somewhat flirtatiously toward several people in the inn common room, including, it must be said, Othrag, had something to do with exactly what you describe.

Where we ended the session, Othrag claims that nothing happened 'except what she wanted me to do'. To his credit, Othrag seems genuinely worried that he somehow failed to please the human female and wonders if 'flowers or baked goods' might improve her disposition.

The human female has not actually made any complaint and while she has obviously been crying, Othrag was actually seen consoling her at one point, with her not showing any signs that she minded his clumsy attempts to show support. Of course, the lack of any complaint and/or the crying might be because of another tragedy which occurred over the night, where a young apprentice magic-user seems to have overdosed on mordayn vapour and only saved from death by placing her in magical suspended animation.

All in all, sex, drugs and rock-and-roll seems to be endangering the encountered adventurers more than their adventures did.

*One PC has allies and friends among dwarves and elves, as well as his native humans, and has managed to retain the respect of orcish warriors despite years of fighting them. He has now started to build long-term relationships with selected orcish chiefs and influential men, among them Yuraurgh Farseer.
**He even reads Chondathan, inluding Sembian ballads and adventure novels, a case of which was in the cargo of a ship that stranded in a cove near his tribal homeland when he was a youth.

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Edited by - Icelander on 09 Apr 2018 15:15:43
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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 09 Apr 2018 :  15:35:00  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Your recent topics are orcish words, bras, and musical instruments... Are you forming an orc boy band?

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Icelander
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Posted - 09 Apr 2018 :  16:57:10  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Your recent topics are orcish words, bras, and musical instruments... Are you forming an orc boy band?


No...

But I was wondering whether any of the orcs travelling with the PCs and staying at the Inn of the Nine Swords in Swords Pool, the Vast, could plausibly have skill with a musical instrument to help them overcome some of the distrust and prejudice that the human adventurers staying there felt toward them.*

Also, as the frenetic pace of action that had been ongoing for the past months of real-time play had finally come to a quiet part, I wanted to be able to pepper the speech of the orcs with words in their own language, related to the subject of the adventure or important stuff to them.

Finally, well, the PCs had earlier on rescued a female adventurer, the lone survivor of a band of Impilturan adventurers killed by a cult of tribal wereboars in the High Country. Random rolls indicated that Atheen Lesjan, the sole survivor, was improbably attractive. As in, Elizabeth Taylor at the height of her fame attractive.

During their adventures, the PCs also encountered a mercenary band of drow and some other races, which included a human shadow mage and his young female apprentice, both from Tantras. As things turned out, these two accompanied the PCs to Swords Pool. Not that Bhaermus and Salue were relevant to the question about breast support during athletic activity, neither being very athletic, but they were the reason for the presence of the mordayn vapour at the Inn and the overdose that Salue suffered.

Finally, I noted that according to Eytan Bernstein, the Nine Swords Company was being reconstituted at the Inn of the Nine Swords, by 'young blade magicians from the Vast'. So I made nine young blade magicians from the Vast. Rolling for various things randomly, there were four females and five males.

The fact that these NPCs were not just a new adventuring party (and therefore not necessarily rich or successful), but also dedicated martial artists, led to my wondering what athletic wear looked like in the Realms and how much work it was to keep it clean and fresh if you trained six hours or more per day.

And the fact that one of the female martial artists, the Selunite cleric/crusaders Peryta Ghossil, was not only well-endowed, but also apparently favoured quite revealing clothing, well, that led to my wondering how she would dress during acrobatic swordsmanship training.

Especially if she were trying to catch the eye of one of the PCs' company, the handsome Knight of the Rooster from Ravens Bluff, Sir Michael Carragher. Or, you know, anyone who was new, interesting and attractive, because she had been a long time away from civilisation (aside from a rather small village around the Inn) and had a rule about no erotic sport with her fellow adventurers.

That being said, there was some music made by orcs. Two of the Nine Swords Company played instruments (a violin and some kind of flute or pipes) and two of them sang, and they managed to get one orc chieftain, Khurgh the Hammerer, and an orc scout, Thaurl, to play improvised drums, and Ughtrog (a half-orc) to sing.

Unfortunately, the PCs missed it. One, Bolg mac Uther, a dwarven warrior, had gone early to 'bed', sleeping outside in the wagon shed with his war-hog, Skair Bloodtusk, a dire boar mount trained for battle. Another, Sir Michael, was, erm, otherwise occupied at the time, failing to resist temptation unjustly thrown into his path by fickle Fate.

*Not all that unreasonably, as orcs are historical enemies of human farmers in the Vast, their society is violent and esteems raids on neighbours as a way to gather wealth and orcs appear to be innately more prone to savagery, violence and bad temper than even humans (who are already pretty monstrous to each other through all of real-life recorded history).

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sleyvas
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Posted - 10 Apr 2018 :  12:54:32  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
oh, I totally missed that those were all names. I thought you wanted what they might mean as words. Yeah, those all work well as orc names.

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Icelander
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Posted - 10 Apr 2018 :  12:57:31  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

oh, I totally missed that those were all names. I thought you wanted what they might mean as words. Yeah, those all work well as orc names.


They are names, but names in real-world languages often have meaning, whether a daily one that everyone who hears it might recognise, or an older etymology that might not occur to all daily speakers, but might be interesting to scholars (and the person with the name, perhaps).

And as I'm trying to collect or come up with some words in Orcish, I thought I'd ruminate on if any of the characters were named something significant, amusing or interesting, to those who understand Orcish and/or use magical means of understanding it.

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Edited by - Icelander on 10 Apr 2018 12:58:42
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Dalor Darden
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Posted - 18 Apr 2018 :  16:00:41  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I almost universally use Tolkien's Black Speech to make my FR Orc words...

http://www.angelfire.com/ia/orcishnations/orcishphrases.html

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Icelander
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Posted - 15 Aug 2018 :  01:17:13  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander

I'm looking for words like:

[...]
Son


I've learned from the 3e Forgotten Realms Campaign Campaign Setting p. 16 that orcs may append a patronymic to the sons of lords or great champions and that this is done using the term 'sug' ('son of').

Thus, we get such hukrym ('bold tusks', i.e. champions or heroes) as the chieftains Foalorr sug Fael and Torlor sug Klevven.

And, in my campaign, the young prince Othrag Urbakhson is properly referred to as Othrag sug Urbakh, as he is the son of Urbakh Zozdeztrag ('the Undying'), the chief of Ilneval's Horde, who now claims to be King of the Gogker Daraka ('West Orcs'), i.e. the orcs of the Earthfast Mountains.

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Edited by - Icelander on 15 Aug 2018 02:00:50
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Icelander
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Posted - 15 Aug 2018 :  01:53:32  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yuraurgh Farseer could be Yuraurgh Jajgak Gotrak Gontad ('Great Distant/Far Scout', i.e. Farseer).

Prophecy could be Gaktar Gon ('Future Scouting').
Prophet would then be Gaktar Gontag ('Future Scout').

Sword is dotak.

Jegdan would be an orc sergeant, i.e. a sub-unit commander or the leader of a small jok ('squad') on behalf of a greater leader.
Jeddar is a general term for leader, commander or chief.
They probably exist in grades (when there isn't some regional or tribal specific term for them, which will be common).

Darak jeddar ('Orc Chieftain').
Jeddar zejdad daraka ('Chief of Many Orcs').
Jajgak jeddar ('Great Chief').

Jeddar og kejar ('Leader of Formation').
Jeddar og roktor ('Captain of Company').
Jeddar og togtad ('Commander of Flank').
Jeddar og joktar ('General of Army or Warband').
Jeddar og joktara ('General of Warhosts').


This is all from 'Language Lessons I: Even Orcish is Logical' in Dragon #75, with some interpretation required to construct complex concepts from simple root words.

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sleyvas
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Posted - 15 Aug 2018 :  13:48:58  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander

quote:
Originally posted by Icelander

I'm looking for words like:

[...]
Son


I've learned from the 3e Forgotten Realms Campaign Campaign Setting p. 16 that orcs may append a patronymic to the sons of lords or great champions and that this is done using the term 'sug' ('son of').

Thus, we get such hukrym ('bold tusks', i.e. champions or heroes) as the chieftains Foalorr sug Fael and Torlor sug Klevven.

And, in my campaign, the young prince Othrag Urbakhson is properly referred to as Othrag sug Urbakh, as he is the son of Urbakh Zozdeztrag ('the Undying'), the chief of Ilneval's Horde, who now claims to be King of the Gogker Daraka ('West Orcs'), i.e. the orcs of the Earthfast Mountains.



Hmmmm, just for grins... no canon nature to it...

Bauwr or Pauwg= father of
Sauw or Mauwg= mother of
Sugblud = brother or sister by the same father
Mugblud = brother or sister by the same mother
Gra'sug = grandchild

Just throwing it out there, because even if you don't like the sounds of the above, it might be worth developing words for it.




Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 15 Aug 2018 13:51:27
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

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Posted - 15 Aug 2018 :  20:29:29  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
At least in Vaasa, the root word for 'brother' is 'wun'. It's used in a metaphorical sense as part of the compound word 'malwun', literally 'oathbrother', but in the absence of any lore to the contrary, I'll use either 'wun' or 'wunun' as the general Daraktan (Orcish) word for 'brother'.

The Vaasan orcs also use 'dam' or 'damun' for 'blood'. Blood for blood is "Dam ul dam" in the language of orcs from Vaasa.

That means that I can use 'dam' or 'damog' as 'blood of', i.e. the Daraktan way to indicate that an orc is descended from a departed hukrym or shaman, when the relationship is more distant than direct parentage.

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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

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Posted - 28 Aug 2018 :  17:38:20  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm looking for the ancient Gray Orc terms that would have been used in Vastar for rulership and throne.

No doubt orcs have a bewildering number of regional and dialectal terms for 'great chief' or the equivalent, but I want to come up with the orcish word that they used as the root for 'Overking'. I can append an orcish prefix for 'over-', but I still need the term that everyone from elves, dwarves, hobgoblins to humans translated as 'king' of the orcs.

I'd also like an ancient Gray Orc word for 'throne'.

Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!

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