Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Forgotten Realms Journals
 General Forgotten Realms Chat
 Eastern Chondath
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

Hawkfeather
Seeker

Brazil
58 Posts

Posted - 04 Apr 2018 :  00:37:37  Show Profile  Visit Hawkfeather's Homepage Send Hawkfeather a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Hello, fellow scribes!

Is there any official lore about the lands between the city of Shamph and the River Nun on Chondath? I can't find anything on the 2nd edition sourcebook The Vilhon Reach. The only spare information that I found is the name of 3 road villages along the Emerald Corridor (http://www.candlekeep.com/library/rumors/rumor5.htm). I think that at least there's a heavy traffic of merchant caravans along the road.

I'm curious because this area encompass most part of Chondath and there's no information about it. Is a lawless area full of monsters and brigands? Is a countryside dotted with hamlets and farms? Is a place full of ruins of cities of ancient Chondath? Is a land cursed by the remains of the plague magic from the Rotting War? Something else? All of the above?


ps:English is not my first language, so forgive me for any speelling or grammar errors and feel free to correct me.

Edited by - Hawkfeather on 04 Apr 2018 00:38:24

TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
559 Posts

Posted - 04 Apr 2018 :  01:07:50  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Pretty sure like most of the Realms its for you to play with. You could assume there are some villages, thorps, and other way stops between Shamph and Nun and Hlath, but other than that I think you could fill it in with whatever you like.
Go to Top of Page

Hawkfeather
Seeker

Brazil
58 Posts

Posted - 04 Apr 2018 :  01:31:32  Show Profile  Visit Hawkfeather's Homepage Send Hawkfeather a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello, Tom! Thank you for the answer!

To be true, I was thinking that this particular area would be kind of a "blank region" for each DM to fill in. And probably there's no official lore about it. But I just wanted to be sure that I was not missing something.

If really there's nothing official about it, I'd like to hear the thoughts of the Candlekeep scribes. What would you fill the region with?

Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 04 Apr 2018 :  06:11:54  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't see how I managed to be unaware of that scroll for so long, I had created a couple of settlements along that road, and now I can give them canon names.

There is a little bit more history there, but its kind of spread-out and not so defined (from two sources I can think of off the top of my head - Lords of Darkness & Pages from the Mages. There is also a novel set nearby in 'The Blade Kingdoms' (western end of The Akanamere). Its late here and I need to get to sleep - I'll look through my notes tomorrow.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 04 Apr 2018 06:12:14
Go to Top of Page

dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4014 Posts

Posted - 04 Apr 2018 :  09:24:13  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I haven't looked at it yet but I have been looking at chessenta and the history of a region is always intertwined with it's surrounding regions.

Jhaamdath spent a long time at war with it's easter neighbour. It's 12th city inixrien was occupied by unther for many centuries. I'm thinking inixrien was created to guard the border with Unther and so should be located at Reth or Nun.
This of course means you can put extensive ruins beneath the city and lost psionic magic (and maybe a udoxia) as well as a few psionic ghosts.

As for the people. The turami were driven out of chessenta when unther settled that land. They fled West into jhaamdath and it makes sense to me that they would settle on the eastern shores of the vilhon reach.

When the tsunami happened it swamped the east shore causing much death and disease. Then followed several centuries of oppression by bandit lords. This meant the turami mostly fled West to the nation founded by Tyr and rules by Torm in what is now Turmish.

This means the population of the eastern shore could have been an equal mix of jhaam and turami but then became chondathan as other refugees flooded into the region (netherese is one group).

I pegged Banes appearance in the ruins of Inixrien sometime between 100 and 300 DR (swords of the iron legion makes it seem modern day but it makes more sense to be in the distant past). He tried to acquire much power and Form an empire as well as grab a few hidden udoxia before he was beaten back and headed east where he tries to prey off the godkings of unther to drain their power to fuel his ascension to true godhood.

However I haven't studied the vilhon in any detail yet so they are just rough ideas.

Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 04 Apr 2018 :  17:19:13  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As for my two sources above - in Lords of Darkness (under the 'Shadows' entry) we have mention of Tor Mak & Meryn, and in the errata provided by Ed Greenwood, he had this to say:
quote:
As REF5 Lords of Darkness tells us, "Widden Valley is a broad expanse of grassy fields and tree-lined hills. The narrow Widden River bisects the valley. To the south of it is the village of Meryn. To the north of it is the ruined city of Tor Mak...once a prosperous place, a center of learning that was home to scholars and wizards. But the walled city was laid waste in the Goblin Wars, now long past." Like Daufin, this locale was created by Deborah Christian for REF5 Lords of Darkness, and the whereabouts of Tor Mak was kept nebulous therein so DMs could most easily transplant it into their own campaigns. At the time, I chose to make the Widden the middle tributary of the River Nun (the one that on the mapsheet for The Vilhon Reach rises closest to Colletro), and placed Tor Mak about three miles north of the river and about fifteen miles east of the headwaters of the Widden, and Meryn about ten miles south of the river and about sixteen miles from its rising (in other words, farther west than 'due south' from Tor Mak). I didn't develop any backstory for either Tor Mak or the Goblin Wars, because play in the 'home' Realms campaign didn't reach the ruins, and because I like to leave mysteries lying around for other folks to build Realmslore on. :}
Readers of my lore-screeds on Chondath will recall that all of this area is in the hands of various self-styled lordlings. The closest of these is Faelae Windthrarn, who calls himself 'Crowned Lord' of the Malander-which is the valley occupied by the main River Nun, that (if one navigates upriver from the sea in a very small boat) is the westernmost branch, and reaches farthest south. The Malander is a small realm of verdant barley and root-crops farms, policed by the swift-riding 'knights' of the Crowned Lord. Lord Windthrarn dines on and exports a constant supply of sheep, too plentiful in numbers to be supported by the small number of fields he gives over to grazing, and Elminster suspects that the Crowned Lord has a captured deepspawn in a cavern somewhere busily disgorging an endless stream of sheep. In the original 'home' Realms campaign, this law-of-the-sword region is very much like the Border Kingdoms: adventurer types are endlessly arriving, butchering or running off the resident lordlings, and setting themselves up with grand titles (such as "The Overking of All Crommador" and "The Exalted Lord of the Great Realm") to rule over a few cow pastures, a village, a mill, a keep, and a woodlot or two-until the next would-be ruler comes along. It makes for great adventuring, with running feuds, lurking Thayan agents making alliances with one lordling against another and then backstabbing their recent allies, intelligent undead and mages who want to cast experimental spells and practise monster-crafting running amok, outlaws rushing in (hotly pursued) with stolen treasure to hide, and the works. When PCs need a breather, they can always seek the Underdark or a big war elsewhere as a place to relax in.


And in Pages from the Mages, we have The Glandar's Grimoire...
quote:
The Glandar's Grimoire: The Glandar was a mage-king of long ago, whose lands were somewhere near the Vilhon Reach. "The Glandar" is actually a title; his real name has been forgotten. It is known that the Glandar was an intelligent, powerful mage whose Art was skilful enough to create aerial craft even in those dim days, and whose small kingdom boasted irrigation, medicine, and Art far more advanced than those of neighbouring lands.

The Glandar was also a cruel tyrant who permitted no other being beside himself to study Art in his lands - and this policy proved to be his undoing. He was alone when attacked by a group of young, ambitious mages of Unther. Although he slew many of them, he was overwhelmed and utterly destroyed. His grimoire (so named because its first page bears inly the inscription: "The Grimoire Most Perilous of the Immortal Glandar, Lord of the Undying, Scepter of Glandara") was seized by his slayers, whip battled each other for the spoils, wreaking much havoc in the fallen mage's land of Glandara. ("Scepter" was the title the Glandar ruled by; "Lord of the Undying" is believed to refer to his mastery of undead, through Dark Art).


Both George Krashos and I have surmised that 'Glandara' was most-likely located in this same region you are interested in, probably to the north, around Reth (so located on the peninsula jutting out toward the islands there). I've toyed with the idea of making Tor Mak The Glandar's capitol, but it doesn't really fit the lore, and to be honest, saying Reth is the former capitol (or rather, Reth is now built upon the ruins of the former unnamed capitol) is a better solution. In fact. I picture the original name being something like 'Glandareth', wich was just shortened after its fall to 'Reth'.

I still want to link the two stray bits of lore somehow, and probably the best way to do that is to say Tor Mak was a rival citystate of Glandareth, and it was The Glandar who incited the goblin Wars. Once the goblins were defeated, he himself fell soon after (all homebrew of course).


"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 04 Apr 2018 17:21:34
Go to Top of Page

dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4014 Posts

Posted - 04 Apr 2018 :  19:56:08  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thats a nice find and I like the changing of Malandreth to Glandreth.

I have noted from Eds postings that the Chondathan word for River is Raeth and Stream is Arraeth which is phonetically similar to Reth so I reckon Reth is from Malandreth which is a corrupted version of Malandarraeth which probably means Maland by the Stream.


Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site
Go to Top of Page

Hawkfeather
Seeker

Brazil
58 Posts

Posted - 04 Apr 2018 :  23:44:32  Show Profile  Visit Hawkfeather's Homepage Send Hawkfeather a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great lore and suggestions Markus and dazzlerdal.

So the official take / Ed's vision for the region is that it's a "Border Kingdoms like" area. This is what I was expecting this region to be if not a "blank state" anyway. I even thought to just "transport" the Border Kingdoms to this place. I don't know if I'll stick to it, but it's a start.

Can you share with us your map version for Chondath, Markus?

Edited by - Hawkfeather on 04 Apr 2018 23:46:20
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 05 Apr 2018 :  00:27:52  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The map showing that whole region was part of the Ixinos product that I did for Dalor Darden, so I'd really rather not post that separately, but now that I have this other info from that scroll, I may decide to update that map and post it anyway (since it won't be the same map - it will be an updated one.

Another map that shows a chunk of it is my old Shaareach map, which unfortunately cuts-off right in the middle of that area. I've been tempted to update that one as well (there are three spelling errors on that map), and with the new Chondath names I really should (and if I do, I will go slightly north to make sure I get the whole thing). I am currently mapping this area again, as well, but its for my main 5e mapping project, so completely different scale and art-style, and also somewhat different layout of terrain (because its 5e). The three mistakes are that I spelled 'Prastuil' wrong TWICE (as Rastuil) and 'The Akanal' I spelled wrong as well (did so on both those maps - I just realized that error had carried over to the Ixinos one). Also, in the newer project I've decide to move the Overlook material (from the Scales of War AP) to a location south, between the Misty Vale and the Bandit Wastes (lore-wise, its just a WAY better fit there, and since its only quasi-canonical anyway, it won't matter if I move it to a more logical location).

EDIT:
BTW, what era is your game set in? (setting date/rules edition)

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 05 Apr 2018 02:22:09
Go to Top of Page

Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1309 Posts

Posted - 05 Apr 2018 :  14:29:16  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
We have no idea about what happened to Chondath after the Sundering. It was shipped off to Abier during the spellplague, but it's one nation that has not been mentioned yet. It might be back, it might not
Go to Top of Page

Hawkfeather
Seeker

Brazil
58 Posts

Posted - 06 Apr 2018 :  00:39:42  Show Profile  Visit Hawkfeather's Homepage Send Hawkfeather a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I'm not currently gaming in the Realms. Nowadays my group are playing a GURPS Supers Campaing and I'm not the DM. But I'm practically the main DM of my gaming group and sooner or later I'll be back at the DM chair. We always play in the Realms circa 1370 and we're using the 5th edition ruleset since its release (and 2nd edition, 3rd edition and the Pathfinder ruleset previously).

I want my next campaing (can be in a couple of months, can be next year; problably something in between) to be around the Vilhon Reach, because we never really played there and I find the region fascinating. But I fail to see it with a Renaissance Italy inspiration as I read somewhere else on the Internet a couple of times. I don't know why exactly (maybe because of the slaves and the gladiatorial arenas), but I've always imagine the Vilhon Reach in a more Punic/Ancient Roman World style. For example, when I imagine the heavy cavalry of Sespech, I don't think in medieval knights, but in cataphracts. I know that's not canon, but I'm just more confortable with this feel.

Edited by - Hawkfeather on 06 Apr 2018 00:40:23
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 06 Apr 2018 :  01:05:00  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The 'Renaissance Italy' flavor was more in the Blade kingdoms, a little bit further south and East from where you're talking about (and Chondath's 'neighbor', although one can imagine they were once part of Chondath... and Chessenta). That was more about the names, technology, and genral flavor of that novel.

However, Sembia - reminds me the most of pre-unification Italy, politically. I think the DaVinci's Demons series on cable may have been canceled, but if you can catch any of that, its was a great inspiration for both the Blade Kingdoms AND Sembia ('Merchant Princes').

EDIT:
I just had weird thought... how serious is your group? It might be fun to have a kingdom of evil Tortles in the area, and they kidnap a princess. Since its supposed to be Italian-flavored, why not a little Mario?

'King Koopa' can be a Tortle half-dragon.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 06 Apr 2018 01:56:51
Go to Top of Page

Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1309 Posts

Posted - 06 Apr 2018 :  02:15:10  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You know I have no idea what happened to the Blade Kingdoms. They haven't been mentioned in ages so I see no reason for them not to still exist, the Spellplague was not mentioned as destroying them.
Go to Top of Page

Hawkfeather
Seeker

Brazil
58 Posts

Posted - 06 Apr 2018 :  04:49:11  Show Profile  Visit Hawkfeather's Homepage Send Hawkfeather a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I never heard about this Blade Kingdoms before... And I own a LOT of Realms stuff (1st, 2nd and 3rd editions). But I almost have no novels, so maybe this is the reason why (I use the Realms solely as a game setting). I see Sembia exactly the way you described, only a little bit more cutthroat than the pre-unification Italy.

Our group is a serious one. Sure that jokes abound, but we try to keep the setting serious most of the time. I don't think a kingdom of evil Tortles would be appreciated... but I think that fighting Ghouls'n Ghosts is always cool!

Edited by - Hawkfeather on 06 Apr 2018 04:51:03
Go to Top of Page

TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
559 Posts

Posted - 07 Apr 2018 :  14:20:11  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Blade Kingdoms were a bunch of independent city states between Chondath and Chessenta. They only appeared in one novel, which was widely panned as one of the worst Realms novels and then forgotten by all except the completest scribes of this forum.
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 07 Apr 2018 :  18:22:36  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Much like the Whamite islands, I fear there was some sort of 'Insanity Plague' released into the region (possibly even the same plague - I fear the Emerald Enclave may be to blame!) Somehow, this illness not only makes folks lose all common sense (and decency), but it makes them extremely belligerent (warlike) and it also cause mass delusions. Tales coming out of both regions not only report much bloodshed and strife, but also include wild stories concerning all sorts of 'bizarre teknulogee' (whatever that is). The region was put under official quarantine by both Chondath and Chessenta, but when the Spellplague hit it seems to have wiped out all traces of the 'mental illness'. In fact, the folks of the Whamite Islands have gone back to calling their lands the 'Rocks of Lontos' (the original name taken directly off of Ed Greenwood's maps), not that there are many survivors left.

There, all fixed. You could even roll some of the absurdity of Swords of the Iron Legion into the mix - its all places surrounding the Vilhon Reach (a possible 'leakage' from all those broken, sunken psionic Udoxias)?

Even bad lore... really bad lore... can be fixed if you know enough about the region.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 07 Apr 2018 20:56:53
Go to Top of Page

dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4014 Posts

Posted - 07 Apr 2018 :  19:25:23  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Pin it on the esahlbanr monolith. Aryselmar was very warlike before it got destroyed by a whopping great tidal wave which just happened to unearth this monolith sitting right underneath it's capital

Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 07 Apr 2018 :  21:04:49  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It doesn't even need to be that focused/detailed.

We have a region (Vilhon Reach) where a psionically powerful empire was utterly destroyed in a moment, and their uber-powerful (artifact) Udoxias (read: psionic Mythalar) were all submerged/lost in that same instant - the instant where over a hundred thousand minds all cried out in anguish, and despair. Their deaths were all imprinted on those semi-aware Udoxias... and they want revenge. The entire region seems steeped in it - we have THREE different bits of (terrible) lore all revolving around crazy-arse wars in that area. I have surmised that the Udoxias are causing a certain level of 'agitation' in the region, and the more psionically 'aware' one is, the worse it gets. People strong in the Arcane Arts seemed to also be greater affected (the same disciplines it takes to memorize complex 'patterns' {spells} of magical energy also open a pathway for this sort of intrusion).

The Turami, for whatever reason, seem completely unaffected.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

Go to Top of Page

Mapolq
Senior Scribe

Brazil
466 Posts

Posted - 04 May 2018 :  09:43:48  Show Profile Send Mapolq a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Swords of the Iron Legion mentions a village named River's Run on the river Nun, though it's much closer to the Blade Kingdoms than to any of Chondath's cities. It also mentions a town by the name of Orbesh which is supposed to be one day's ride west of River's Run across the fields of Nun. It's unclear whether that's supposed to be the same place as the town of Orbech/Orbrech which was once destroyed by elves, along with Timindar. I've made them two different towns in my Vilhon Reach campaign since there's so few named places to go around in those parts.

Note also that the town of Nun (called a village in The Vilhon Reach), on the main crossing of the river along the Emerald Corridor, is omitted from the 3e map, but it's there in the Vilhon Reach map and is mentioned in the article you linked as well.

Never sleep under the jackfruit tree.

Tales of Moonsea - A Neverwinter Nights 2 Persistent World. Check out our website at http://www.talesofmoonsea.com and our video trailer at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am304WqOAAo&feature=youtu.be, as well as our thread here at Candlekeep: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12955

My campaign thread: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16447

Edited by - Mapolq on 04 May 2018 09:47:56
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2018 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000