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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Apr 2018 : 20:27:36
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Okay Elves, Humans, Dwarves, Duegar, Dragons, Halflings, Gnomes, Orcs, Gobliniods, Kobolds, Drow, all have their pantheon and I'm been thinking based partly on MTOF previews and partly on the SCAG that perhaps a Tiefling Pantheon is involving.
In 4e the Archdevils are considered a part of the Faerun Pantheon, although except for Asmodeaus are not true full Gods, although they had a limited ability to grant divine magic via dark rites (the boss man as a true deity didn't need these rites to grant magic).
As if that wasn't enough some Mulhorandi Gods took Tieflings as hosts and all seem to have a mix of Aasimar, Tiefling, and Human blood relatives from interbreeding.
And in the SCAG it's mentioned some deities are appearing to Tieflings in their dreams in Tiefling forms with Tiefling names and titles.
Could this be the beginning of a Tiefling Pantheon?
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Spectralballoons
Acolyte
Pakistan
48 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2018 : 20:41:01
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| Tieflings don't really seem as much a distinct culture to me as much as having the culture of their host society. I wouldn't say that they'll end up with their own cohesive pantheon; that requires there to be a cohesive Tiefling society which can have a pantheon and its own interpretations of gods. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2018 : 20:41:14
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| For the Tieflings to have a pantheon, they'd need to define themselves as a culture/people first. To my understanding, they're more or less part of the various human cultures at this moment. I don't see a Tiefling pantheon being defined until they acquire a cultural identity, tbh. It might be that they're in the process of doing so, but it would take a long time to reach an *actual* Tiefling pantheon. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2018 : 00:02:03
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I'd thought 4E (and 5E) tieflings were a proper true-breeding race spawned by Asmodeus to worship him?
Whereas 3E (descended from 2E) tieflings were "planetouched" or "outsider" types, primarily "human" with noticeable Evil-aligned Lower Planes ancestry. Baatezu, Tanar'ri, Rakshasa, even deific bloodlines (such as Beshaba, Mask, Set, etc), although any sort of fiendish or generic (even unidentifiable) "evil" planar lineage was possible. Much the same thing as aasimar, whose nonhuman lineage was generally sired by Good-aligned Upper Planar entities. Not so much a proper race as an ongoing population of planar halfbreeds and mongrels, humans with a nonhuman "taint" or "corruption", no two tieflings were ever exactly alike.
And 1E only offered cambions (half-human / half-devil) and alu-fiends (half-human / half-succubus/fiend), along with a few of their demihuman variants.
But in any event, tiefling temperament is widely known - they tend to be arrogant, indomitable, proud, defiant, troublesome, often violent, they've got bad attitude and strong antipathy for "normal" (human) society. Maybe this does indeed run thick in their blood, or maybe it's simply the product of being feared, hated, and socially outcast ... but either way, there are few examples (exceptions) of polite and social tieflings, and there are actually more examples of tieflings who physically appear almost indistinguishable from "normal" humans but instead possess obviously fiendish minds and psychologies which profoundly mark their nonhuman origins.
All that being said, it seems to me that tieflings "bred" to serve a particular deity would more likely stubbornly insist on rejecting expectations and doing the exact opposite. They understand dominance and submission but they don't accept servitude to "higher" powers or authority, they're self-reliant, they're suspicious of "higher" powers or authorities - I can't easily imagine a tiefling worshipping any deity unless he is compelled (involuntarily) or he is genuinely convinced that he has a real rapport with a truly benevolent being he chooses (voluntarily) to serve. I get the impression that humans sort of balance choice vs fate, serving self vs serving others ... while tieflings have intrinsically stronger will (though not necessarily stronger willpower) and stronger sense of self-interest. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 03 Apr 2018 00:17:22 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2018 : 00:18:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I'd thought 4E (and 5e) tieflings were a proper true-breeding race spawned by Asmodeus to worship him?
Yeah, but he basically made anyone with some fiendish blood suddenly prominent show it.... which made a bunch of people get shunned..... so a lot of them considered Asmodeus to be a d*ck and refused to worship him. Or at least that's what one tiefling told me when I asked why he gave people the finger anytime they mentioned Asmodeus' name. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2443 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2018 : 02:57:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I'd thought 4E (and 5E) tieflings were a proper true-breeding race spawned by Asmodeus to worship him?
Yes and no. It's true that this was the aim of Asmodeus when he devised his corrupting ritual (a ritual that tainted many tiefling lineages across Toril to make their child to have Asmodean tieflings, and then make Asmodean tieflings' children always have Asmodean lineage regardless of the other parent's race/lineage). He wanted to be a racial god, as those tend to be more powerful.
This failed spectacularly. He gained tieflings converts, yes. As he gained humans or dwarves. But NOT all the tiefling race, as he was expecting. As Irennan already said, they lack a unified racial cultural background, and individuals adopt the one from the place they live, so they worship whatever god suits them.
So, mulhorandi tieflings can worship the mulhorandi gods, but I can expect a tiefling raised in Waterdeep worshiping Selune or Gond, or whatever other god. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 03 Apr 2018 02:58:43 |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2018 : 04:00:23
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| It was simply Asmo, but Tiefling incarnations of various Gods, that look like Tieflings. |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2018 : 06:33:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
And 1E only offered cambions (half-human / half-devil) and alu-fiends (half-human / half-succubus/fiend), along with a few of their demihuman variants.
Just to clarify, both of these were tanar'ri/demons. Alu-fiends were the offspring of human males and succubi, and cambions were male offspring of male tanar'ri/demons and human females. There were no devilish or daemonic halfbreeds or partbreeds in 1e (as a specific monster type, at least).
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2018 : 07:14:31
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| Hmm, correct, 1E cambions were half-human/half-demon, my mistake. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2018 : 10:49:33
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Almost every mortal look for a patron diety that he can most relate to with his world view, character and occupation. For example half-elves take mostly such patrons who exemplify outsiders, loners and exiles because that is what they are. That is because of their mixed heretige of two cultures. It should be a little worse for tieflings as their tie is towards lower planes. If some tiefling would be a respected member of some human village where he works as a gardener he would probably take Chauntea as his patron.
When there will be a large group of thieflings veneration some diety there is a possibility that such a diety will gain a domain of thieflings but that would be a long run. Also there is a possibility that some heroic tiefling will gain a divine spark himself and focus on his heretige as a powerbase thus creating a tiefling domain. |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2018 : 13:16:55
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| Tieflings aren't substantial enough to have a racial god. It would be like having a racial deity of aasimar, or a racial deity of one-eyed pirates who say 'yaaar!'. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2018 : 16:10:04
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Tieflings aren't substantial enough to have a racial god. It would be like having a racial deity of aasimar, or a racial deity of one-eyed pirates who say 'yaaar!'.
The Flying Spaghetti Monster favors pirates. They are touched by His Noodly Appendage.  |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2018 : 16:20:02
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| Overpowers aren't counted, O Master of Mischief. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2018 : 21:04:27
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Overpowers aren't counted, O Master of Mischief.
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2018 : 01:16:47
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| Tieflings don't have a set pantheon (other than 4e having ties to Asmodeus), and thus can probably choose whichever deity they want. Magadon Kest, for example, would sometimes say "Goddess", but it is unclear exactly whom he was referring to. Mielikki, perhaps. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2018 : 01:21:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley
Almost every mortal look for a patron diety that he can most relate to with his world view, character and occupation. For example half-elves take mostly such patrons who exemplify outsiders, loners and exiles because that is what they are. That is because of their mixed heretige of two cultures. It should be a little worse for tieflings as their tie is towards lower planes. If some tiefling would be a respected member of some human village where he works as a gardener he would probably take Chauntea as his patron.
Not necessarily. Half-elves have been known to worship a variety of deities, including members of the Seldarine. Some, of course, may worship deities exemplifying loners (some may even worship Fenmarel), but they are just as likely to worship a deity best aligning with their moral outlook, whichever part of the heritage they identify most strongly with, or the deity of their parent(s).
I will agree with you however about the tieflings. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2018 : 01:58:49
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Consider the daemonfey/fey'ri of the Realms ... they aren't proper cambions/tieflings and they have their own history detached from Asmodeus.
They do not seem to worship any particular deity/power. They only serve House Dlardrageth (and their leader, "Queen"/"Countess" Sarya Dlardrageth, along with her fiendish consorts). They also nominally serve the dream of reasserting their "noble" elven House in a rebuilt Aryvandaar (along with, probably, their burning desire to inflict their punishment/vengeance/dominance onto those who exiled and imprisoned them) - in effect, they have no "faith" but plenty of "idealism". |
[/Ayrik] |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2018 : 04:07:39
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| There are probably powers of the Hells that are venerated by the fey'ri (or at least some of them), but that is something I would have to look in to. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2018 : 04:09:30
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| likely malkazid.....( yeah I cant spell it) or the fiend who started the taint in the first place |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2018 : 11:38:50
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quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Not necessarily. Half-elves have been known to worship a variety of deities, including members of the Seldarine. Some, of course, may worship deities exemplifying loners (some may even worship Fenmarel), but they are just as likely to worship a deity best aligning with their moral outlook, whichever part of the heritage they identify most strongly with, or the deity of their parent(s).
I will agree with you however about the tieflings.
And I agree with you about half-elves as I thought that was what I wrote :-)
I do not know about deamonfey venerating any demon or even devil! As purists I believe they still venerate Seldarin althou probably without their blessing. |
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Elren_Wolfsbane
Learned Scribe
USA
111 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2018 : 14:42:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Consider the daemonfey/fey'ri of the Realms ... they aren't proper cambions/tieflings and they have their own history detached from Asmodeus.
They do not seem to worship any particular deity/power. They only serve House Dlardrageth (and their leader, "Queen"/"Countess" Sarya Dlardrageth, along with her fiendish consorts). They also nominally serve the dream of reasserting their "noble" elven House in a rebuilt Aryvandaar (along with, probably, their burning desire to inflict their punishment/vengeance/dominance onto those who exiled and imprisoned them) - in effect, they have no "faith" but plenty of "idealism".
I'm using Fey'ri and I'm curious to know how tieflings make fey'ri. Do they mate with fey? Or do they have a ritual to make fey'ri? |
Aa' lasser en`coialle n`natula brown.
(May the leaves of your life tree never turn brown)
-Elren Wolfsbane |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2018 : 15:33:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Elren_Wolfsbane
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Consider the daemonfey/fey'ri of the Realms ... they aren't proper cambions/tieflings and they have their own history detached from Asmodeus.
They do not seem to worship any particular deity/power. They only serve House Dlardrageth (and their leader, "Queen"/"Countess" Sarya Dlardrageth, along with her fiendish consorts). They also nominally serve the dream of reasserting their "noble" elven House in a rebuilt Aryvandaar (along with, probably, their burning desire to inflict their punishment/vengeance/dominance onto those who exiled and imprisoned them) - in effect, they have no "faith" but plenty of "idealism".
I'm using Fey'ri and I'm curious to know how tieflings make fey'ri. Do they mate with fey? Or do they have a ritual to make fey'ri?
The fey'ri are descended from gold elf/tanar'ri pairings. |
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Elren_Wolfsbane
Learned Scribe
USA
111 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2018 : 16:17:25
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| Ah,ok. After some reading all I have to do is slight adjustments,and this will work to my story. |
Aa' lasser en`coialle n`natula brown.
(May the leaves of your life tree never turn brown)
-Elren Wolfsbane |
Edited by - Elren_Wolfsbane on 04 Apr 2018 16:20:37 |
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2018 : 03:39:42
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| Gnomish tieflings? I've never seen a horned gnome. |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2018 : 08:09:14
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quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast
Gnomish tieflings? I've never seen a horned gnome.
they don't exist, or so the illusion is.
wild rumor is that they have their tails cut off and their horns removed and filed down to the skull....
yeah barbarians those gnomes
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why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2018 : 12:30:02
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Presumably, gnomes just aren't that interested in conjuration, much less sleeping with fiends. While humans have a diverse array of evil powers that include powers of seduction and lust, evil to the gnomes is best exemplified by Urdlen, who represents RAINS OF BLOOD THE EARTH SCREAMING IN AGONY PAIN TORMENT DEATH SLAUGHTER OH GARL MAKE IT STOP I BEG YOU-
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2018 : 12:37:12
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Tieflings aren't substantial enough to have a racial god. It would be like having a racial deity of aasimar, or a racial deity of one-eyed pirates who say 'yaaar!'.
The one-eyed pirates of the Iron Islands who say "yaar!" all worship Yara... I mean if worship consists of leering at her and thinking lewd thoughts.
http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Yara_Greyjoy
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2018 : 12:40:14
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Presumably, gnomes just aren't that interested in conjuration, much less sleeping with fiends. While humans have a diverse array of evil powers that include powers of seduction and lust, evil to the gnomes is best exemplified by Urdlen, who represents RAINS OF BLOOD THE EARTH SCREAMING IN AGONY PAIN TORMENT DEATH SLAUGHTER OH GARL MAKE IT STOP I BEG YOU-
I thought he represented NO! I didn't mean to put that furry thing down IN THERE! OWWWWW, IT'S BITING!!! OOWWWWW, Please take it out! Take it out! It's burrowing! |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2018 : 14:32:17
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Presumably, gnomes just aren't that interested in conjuration, much less sleeping with fiends. While humans have a diverse array of evil powers that include powers of seduction and lust, evil to the gnomes is best exemplified by Urdlen, who represents RAINS OF BLOOD THE EARTH SCREAMING IN AGONY PAIN TORMENT DEATH SLAUGHTER OH GARL MAKE IT STOP I BEG YOU-
I thought he represented NO! I didn't mean to put that furry thing down IN THERE! OWWWWW, IT'S BITING!!! OOWWWWW, Please take it out! Take it out! It's burrowing!
Nah, that's the Glutton, from Races of Stone. I'm going to quote Afroakuma from the GitP forums here:
The Glutton is a lesser deity, whereas Urdlen is an intermediate power. Maw vs. mole. Heavy mace vs. claw bracer. Destruction and Strength vs. Earth and Hatred. Giant badger vs. giant mutant albino mole. So the broad strokes are different.
The Glutton is a venal and petty deity of disaster and greed, blamed for rotten luck and serving as the gnome boogeyman. He takes gnomes as servants and is big into demons and general ruin and disorder.
Urdlen is something worse.
A nightmare force of sheer hate, Urdlen tears through its realm in the Abyss in maddened "patterns" that leave tunnels where his petitioners struggle, hoping not to get caught in the path of their god. No myths tell of his awakening; the truth is either unknown or - more likely - has been blotted out by the other gnomish deities, who do not comprehend the blind, alien malevolence Urdlen embodies. Urdlen is worshiped by spriggans and may have had a hand in their creation. It is obsessed with blood and the draining of vital forces, and to contact it (as a priest or otherwise) involves getting a minor hemorrhage (1d4 damage). Urdlen hates you.
So that's the basic setup. The Glutton's who you call upon if you're crazy or exiled, and want to break up communities or steal lots of gold or collapse a tunnel. Urdlen's the one you call if blood bubbling hot and crimson let it flood wash the cracked earth in the red rain seas arise and all shall yield their pitiful lot fluids spill into the ocean that makes whole the rock and when all consumed become then the egg splits and the great poison leaks forth |
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2018 : 12:36:23
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| I'm sure a gnome would experiment sleeping with a fiend…. just out of curiosity. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2018 : 13:27:56
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quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast
I'm sure a gnome would experiment sleeping with a fiend…. just out of curiosity.
Midgard's gnomes likely would. After breaking a deal with Baba Yaga, one of their royals made a deal with the Eleven Hells, to get some protection from Baba Yaga. So the gnomes are very much not to be trusted -- they've a habit of grabbing people to sacrifice to the Eleven Hells. |
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Tiefling Pantheon
