Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Forgotten Realms Journals
 General Forgotten Realms Chat
 Half Orc Rogues Guild
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

Corruption
Seeker

24 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2018 :  08:45:00  Show Profile Send Corruption a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Here is an idea I have in mind for a game I plan on running, and would like help developing:
Half Orcs are linked to just about every major criminal network as underlings.
They know the connections the different groups have.
Every such group trusts them, considering them to be too stupid to betray them.
They are outcasts and live in the ghettos and slums, often turning to crime to survive.
The orcs have their own god of rogues!

Why not have half orcs serving him go into business for themselves, using being part of these other groups to spy on them, and as a cover for their own actions?
That god would be using them to estend his influence over civilised areas.
He is also only subservent to Gruumish out of fear of him, but this could be a secret power base of his.

Oh, and I am hoping some of the players try to make Elf and Half Elf characters, considering the hatred Orcs and Half Orcs have for them

When all, even Gods, must die, then live a life worth living

Edited by - Corruption on 23 Feb 2018 08:47:33

sfdragon
Great Reader

2206 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2018 :  16:27:29  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
the shadow thieves of amn have control of pretty much the entire sword coast and they consist of several semi independent cells.

however your half orc guild could be a semi independent cell of a bigger guild.

that also said, no half orc character of mine would trust such a group... ( nor would any other non half orc for that matter)

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31142 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2018 :  17:36:25  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm not keen on the idea of a racially-based guild, myself. I've got no issue with the idea of a half-orc guild leader, but part of what a good thieves guild needs is anonymity. You need people that can move thru a crowd, lifting purses and picking pockets, and fade away, without anyone ever noticing them. Any non-human, in a crowd of humans, is going to be noticeable for being different. Half-elves are close enough to human that they'd have better odds of getting away unseen, but that's about it.

What might work is to have a group of half-orcs who are known to be thugs for hire, all brawn and no brains -- but one of them is the hidden guild leader of another group of rogues, one of the more traditional types consisting of mostly humans. And of course the humans wouldn't know that their hidden boss wasn't human, so no one would have a clue that the thuggish Krok the half-orc, who seems barely sentient, is actually the brilliant and enigmatic Scarlet Mask, the legendary thief who once stole the hoard out from under an angry red dragon.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2018 :  18:50:39  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It could work, if you ran it more like a cult. Bear in mind, many thieves' guilds in the Realms were run like that as they doubled as temples to various Roguish gods (mostly Mask, and Bhaal for assassins, but there were others).

Perhaps make it a heresy, combining Shargaas with Ilmater? It would be a 'false heresy', though, with the upper echelon knowing its false, and its really just Shargaas they're worshiping. Something along the lines of Meriadar (God of mongrelmen), but with more of a "god helps those who help themselves" attitude. A god of the downtrodden and oppressed (those who are 'looked down upon' because of their mixed heritage), who only wants 'his people' to get their fair due. So he'd come-off as a Robin Hood-type god, but really he'd just be more of the typical orcish, "if you don't have the power to keep me from taking your stuff, then you don't deserve your stuff" kind of god.

In that way, the cult could infiltrate civilized areas, and be especially popular in poor neighborhoods. They'd actively recruit half-orcs, but would let others join as well (no reason why any but the most racist god would want to deny themselves more power). Of course, non-half orcs would not be allowed to rise in the ranks very high. You could possibly find a half-elf or three among them, but they'd have to be just as rotten and vicious to survive all the abuse that would get heaped upon them from their fellows (in other words, it would be a hard-won respect). The beauty of that would be that most of the other Orcish gods would frown heavily upon that - most especially gruumsh, which is why this would have to be very low-key to work. If Shargras is suddenly becoming more powerful, he may even want to hide some of his divinity inside a Chosen, so that it would harder for Gruumsh to detect the power-increase.

And considering the first half of Shargass' name, he may very well be Mask all along, anyway.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 23 Feb 2018 18:52:28
Go to Top of Page

Corruption
Seeker

24 Posts

Posted - 24 Feb 2018 :  04:54:39  Show Profile Send Corruption a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon

the shadow thieves of amn have control of pretty much the entire sword coast and they consist of several semi independent cells.

however your half orc guild could be a semi independent cell of a bigger guild.

that also said, no half orc character of mine would trust such a group... ( nor would any other non half orc for that matter)


What if half-orcs in the different cells actually worked together?
Everyone thinks what they do is the fault of the shadow thieves, when it is not.

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I'm not keen on the idea of a racially-based guild, myself. I've got no issue with the idea of a half-orc guild leader, but part of what a good thieves guild needs is anonymity. You need people that can move thru a crowd, lifting purses and picking pockets, and fade away, without anyone ever noticing them. Any non-human, in a crowd of humans, is going to be noticeable for being different. Half-elves are close enough to human that they'd have better odds of getting away unseen, but that's about it.

What might work is to have a group of half-orcs who are known to be thugs for hire, all brawn and no brains -- but one of them is the hidden guild leader of another group of rogues, one of the more traditional types consisting of mostly humans. And of course the humans wouldn't know that their hidden boss wasn't human, so no one would have a clue that the thuggish Krok the half-orc, who seems barely sentient, is actually the brilliant and enigmatic Scarlet Mask, the legendary thief who once stole the hoard out from under an angry red dragon.


Interesting. I was thinking something like: Half Orcs are sent to destroy a village on orders of Black Network, and they do so, However, they do not kill everyone, but sell the survivors as slaves.
They sell the stolen goods in different places to avoid being detected. Some are good as Assassins and thieves, but travel as thugs working for different groups.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

It could work, if you ran it more like a cult. Bear in mind, many thieves' guilds in the Realms were run like that as they doubled as temples to various Roguish gods (mostly Mask, and Bhaal for assassins, but there were others).

Perhaps make it a heresy, combining Shargaas with Ilmater? It would be a 'false heresy', though, with the upper echelon knowing its false, and its really just Shargaas they're worshiping. Something along the lines of Meriadar (God of mongrelmen), but with more of a "god helps those who help themselves" attitude. A god of the downtrodden and oppressed (those who are 'looked down upon' because of their mixed heritage), who only wants 'his people' to get their fair due. So he'd come-off as a Robin Hood-type god, but really he'd just be more of the typical orcish, "if you don't have the power to keep me from taking your stuff, then you don't deserve your stuff" kind of god.

In that way, the cult could infiltrate civilized areas, and be especially popular in poor neighborhoods. They'd actively recruit half-orcs, but would let others join as well (no reason why any but the most racist god would want to deny themselves more power). Of course, non-half orcs would not be allowed to rise in the ranks very high. You could possibly find a half-elf or three among them, but they'd have to be just as rotten and vicious to survive all the abuse that would get heaped upon them from their fellows (in other words, it would be a hard-won respect). The beauty of that would be that most of the other Orcish gods would frown heavily upon that - most especially gruumsh, which is why this would have to be very low-key to work. If Shargras is suddenly becoming more powerful, he may even want to hide some of his divinity inside a Chosen, so that it would harder for Gruumsh to detect the power-increase.

And considering the first half of Shargass' name, he may very well be Mask all along, anyway.


I like this. It gives him a power base away from Orcs and Half Orcs.
I was planning on running it a bit cult-like, as Shargass would be in charge.
Hmm, maybe have him use it to make a mask for the mongrelmen.
He would not care about people being part Elf. Heck, the only reason for the hatred was the Elf chief God took out the Orc's chief God's eye in battle! Why would Shargass hold a grudge for that?
Having a few part Elves would throw suspision away from him.


Thanks for the ideas

When all, even Gods, must die, then live a life worth living
Go to Top of Page

moonbeast
Senior Scribe

USA
426 Posts

Posted - 24 Feb 2018 :  12:00:04  Show Profile Send moonbeast a Private Message  Reply with Quote
To OP:

Would there be an Orcish deity of theft and sneakiness in the Gruumshian pantheon? Does he tiptoe around to avoid notice? Does he hide in shadows which is viewed as cowardly in Orcish culture? I don't think he'd fit in.

Here's one idea: Take one of the mainstream Faerunian gods of theft/stealth/avarice, maybe Mask… and then (in your campaign) just create some "Aspect of Mask" that happens to resemble an Orc or Half-Orc. Or maybe in your campaign, there is an Half-Orcish "Chosen of Mask" …. who could be viewed as a sort of legendary hero or demigod among the Orcish rogues, he happens to be their role model.



Go to Top of Page

Corruption
Seeker

24 Posts

Posted - 24 Feb 2018 :  13:18:02  Show Profile Send Corruption a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There is such a God in that pantheon. He is Shargass.
Sure, he may be seen as cowardly, but also as too useful not to include. One thing his followers do is to cull the weak of the tribe. Runts and weakinglings are taking aside as children by the followers of the God o fthe dead, and left in dark caves for followers of Shargass to kill as offerings.
They will even kill chiefs if they believe they are letting weakness take root in them
This is official canon.

When all, even Gods, must die, then live a life worth living

Edited by - Corruption on 24 Feb 2018 13:19:27
Go to Top of Page

sfdragon
Great Reader

2206 Posts

Posted - 24 Feb 2018 :  23:04:04  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
you could do so, however it would be a bad idea.
the way the shadow thieves operate is that nobody knows the other cells so if one gets busted, they can not rat out the other cells; and the guild still has a foothold in the city,

how you choose to do your half orc guild, ( cannon guild) cell or banditry group is up to you,

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234
Go to Top of Page

sfdragon
Great Reader

2206 Posts

Posted - 24 Feb 2018 :  23:24:29  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
btw: it is not a complete half orc guild: http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Xanathar%27s_Thieves%27_Guild
but the xanathar might be worth looking at


http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Shadow_Thieves
the shadow thieves


why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2018 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000