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 Bringing back Auppenser in my Realms: Thoughts?
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe

Ireland
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Posted - 08 Feb 2018 :  00:06:17  Show Profile Send Shadowsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
I'm thinking about bringing back Auppenser in my version of the Realms and I was thinking about using the "Udoxias" to do it.

I was thinking that before Jhaamdath's destruction, Auppenser had a vision of what was going to happen and used a bit of his divine power to shield the Udoxias from destruction. He also used some of his power to shield key members of Jhaamdath who would be protected but put into a deep sleep.

The Udoxias would be uncovered and project it's psionic energy to awaken abilities in people thereby giving Auppenser the strength he needs in order to wake up and then wake up his sleeping followers.

Now that's just a summary of what I would like to do. I was also thinking of bringing back the old Psionic Lich from Ravenloft and incorporating it into the Realms.

What's your thoughts and opinions?

“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
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Edited by - Shadowsoul on 08 Feb 2018 00:06:51

Zeromaru X
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Posted - 08 Feb 2018 :  00:22:59  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Depends of the year you're playing, Ao may have done that for you.

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Ayrik
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Canada
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Posted - 08 Feb 2018 :  00:34:47  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"My Realms" already answers your question. Do whatever you like, explain (or don't explain) it any way you like, full consistency with "official" canon is not necessary.

[/Ayrik]
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
6674 Posts

Posted - 08 Feb 2018 :  00:59:27  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Who says he went away? He was pretty much a little known god anyway.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30811 Posts

Posted - 08 Feb 2018 :  02:59:15  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Who says he went away? He was pretty much a little known god anyway.



I think it was Lost Empires of Faerūn that had Mystra 1.0 putting Auppenser to sleep so that he'd not fade away entirely.

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Markustay
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Posted - 08 Feb 2018 :  03:08:03  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wow, its weird how these things work out - I was just trying to think of this guy's name like yesterday, or the day before.

I need a Supernal of pure reason, and if I make him a supernal (a type of Overgod), then its no problem he overlapped with Murdane. Murdane could have been his 'daughter' (a God he created).

Auppenser never 'died' in the Realms, he just became extremely non-active. After all, he had almost no worshipers left, so what would be the point? In other Crystal Spheres (or even on other planets within Realmspace, or EVEN in other places - continents, etc. ON Toril - where mentalism is big, he would still be active). He's just not gonna be around when no-one is doing the 'thing' his portfolio was all about.

Hmmmmm... although technically, he wasn't really about psionics - that was just a related subject. Still, all his faithful died in Jhaamdath, so he 'went dark', until there is a reason for him to come back. Now Murdane, on the other hand, was actually destroyed.

I had plans to use him in my India-like region I called Jambu-Dweepam, down below (south) Malatra. Psionics are big there, and they are ruled by these crazy little girls (Kumari).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 08 Feb 2018 03:12:32
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
30811 Posts

Posted - 08 Feb 2018 :  03:16:33  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul

I'm thinking about bringing back Auppenser in my version of the Realms and I was thinking about using the "Udoxias" to do it.

I was thinking that before Jhaamdath's destruction, Auppenser had a vision of what was going to happen and used a bit of his divine power to shield the Udoxias from destruction. He also used some of his power to shield key members of Jhaamdath who would be protected but put into a deep sleep.

The Udoxias would be uncovered and project it's psionic energy to awaken abilities in people thereby giving Auppenser the strength he needs in order to wake up and then wake up his sleeping followers.

Now that's just a summary of what I would like to do. I was also thinking of bringing back the old Psionic Lich from Ravenloft and incorporating it into the Realms.

What's your thoughts and opinions?



I don't like the angle of foreseeing a disaster and letting it happen, myself. Partially because it's been done, partially because it begs the question of why more wasn't done to either stop the disaster or save people from it.

When I was making Realmsified warforged, one of my ideas was to make psionic ones from Jhaamdath: Living Constructs of the Realms, part 3: Eidelar. One of these surviving eidelar was a priest of Auppenser, who remains around today, teaching new psionicists. And my article didn't name others, but gave some ideas for other surviving eidelar.

Off the top of my head, here's how I'd spin the return of Auppenser:

Something happens, and a major psionic evil emerges. Maybe a yuan-ti in Hlondeth manages to lay his claws on the remnants of an udoxias, and merges with it, becoming something nearly godlike in power. He swiftly gathers followers, and starts causing all sorts of problems, becoming a major threat. A convenient band of good-aligned psionicists comes along -- maybe it's an odd, all-psion adventuring party, or maybe it's a group of Auppenser worshippers, or maybe it's even some common adventurers who encountered a psionic artifact and walked away with psionic powers, or maybe they're regular adventurers wielding a powerful psionic artifact. Either way, these guys manage to put down the nastybad, which makes a lot of people pay more attention to psionics... Maybe something was released in the final combat, and random people all across the Realms felt themselves get hit by a bolt of "mindfire" -- leaving them psionically empowered, afterward.

Now, more eyes are on psionics, and there are more psionicists around... That's when some priests of Auppenser -- maybe some are my eidelar, maybe they're all human -- that's when his priesthood steps up and starts spreading the word. And now people are listening... With the end result being that Auppenser finally wakes up, and begins encouraging this new influx of worship, and begins to regain some of his lost power.

That's my idea. Run with it or discard it as you like.

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sfdragon
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Posted - 08 Feb 2018 :  05:34:17  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
jhaamdath blows. ( come now, did anyone actually not see me stating that?)

regardless, the only and only ones that I would see auppenser saving would be the last members of jhaamdath's royalty and those who opposed the military coup before the coup. after that, none of them. too warlike and arrogant. pride before the fall and all that and none of it was under the mindlord's domain. war would have been under tempus or the netherese deity or Bane(tyranny).( maybe cyric or jergal, my date fu is no good)

outside of that, any survivors of the elves' justified genocidal high magic spell, could have brought the teachings of auppenser and studied it for generations and a descendant became his chosen at the second sundering and have the deity wake up afterwards,

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


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Lord Karsus
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USA
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Posted - 08 Feb 2018 :  06:04:50  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-I vaguely remember a thread on this a long, long time ago (but since it was on the WotC boards, it's gone). The gist of what I remember was that someone came up with the idea of him placing his essence in psionic crystals, which I think were items in the Psionic Handbook. Not powerful ones like the Udoxias (though those would definitely work, too), but some other item.

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sleyvas
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USA
6674 Posts

Posted - 08 Feb 2018 :  12:29:32  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Who says he went away? He was pretty much a little known god anyway.



I think it was Lost Empires of Faerūn that had Mystra 1.0 putting Auppenser to sleep so that he'd not fade away entirely.



I thought it was the reverse... wasn't she waking him up?

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

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dazzlerdal
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United Kingdom
3721 Posts

Posted - 08 Feb 2018 :  12:35:18  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No need to brig Auppenser back, he never left.

Im thinking of making Auppenser into a dragon. Maybe a gold dragon or a unique dragon. That makes him a demigod so when his church was destroyed he carried on as a really powerful dragon. Like all really old dragons he sleeps for a long time and he has been asleep for over 1000 years now.

Im looking to make most of the jhaamdath pantheon be dragons with a propensity towards mind based magic. Their part human progeny founded jhaamdath and the talent for mind magic abilities has continued through the bloodline into impiltur and the heartlands.

But thats just me. I dont do psionics as any different to normal magic. Psionicists are just sorcerers that focus on mind related magic. But then i have a rule system that lets any sorcerer boost his spells with "points"

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sleyvas
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USA
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Posted - 08 Feb 2018 :  13:58:25  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

No need to brig Auppenser back, he never left.

Im thinking of making Auppenser into a dragon. Maybe a gold dragon or a unique dragon. That makes him a demigod so when his church was destroyed he carried on as a really powerful dragon. Like all really old dragons he sleeps for a long time and he has been asleep for over 1000 years now.

Im looking to make most of the jhaamdath pantheon be dragons with a propensity towards mind based magic. Their part human progeny founded jhaamdath and the talent for mind magic abilities has continued through the bloodline into impiltur and the heartlands.

But thats just me. I dont do psionics as any different to normal magic. Psionicists are just sorcerers that focus on mind related magic. But then i have a rule system that lets any sorcerer boost his spells with "points"



Yeah, like I was saying, he never left. He just wasn't mentioned because he was barely ever mentioned. Now, that being said, there is ONE thing that could lead people to say that he may have died. His domain was in dweomerheart. My take for that was to send him to Abeir during the spellplague, and to have him coming back like all the gods of magic from a sojourn in Abeir.

Regarding him as a dragon, yeah, about a year ago we were discussing him and the idea that he was an aspect of Sardior, the god of psionics, night, and secrets, amongst the gem dragons. He kept 5 thanes (would have been 6 but he banished the obsidian dragon thane).

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Sardior

Along those ideas, Kereska the Wonderbringer may also have lived in dweomerheart. Second edition has her in Limbo though.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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dazzlerdal
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United Kingdom
3721 Posts

Posted - 08 Feb 2018 :  14:16:26  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well given that dragons are material beings and for me demi-gods are material beings (not real gods) I don't need to worry about what plane they are on because they can go anywhere like regular mortals can but their home plane is the material plane.

There is some support for them being physical beings in canon as Tyr slew Valigorn during the procession of justice and that took place in what will become Turmish so that says to me Valigorn was actually in Turmish (and I don't allow true gods to be anywhere outside of their home plane).

A family of powerfully magic dragons that formed the basis for a pantheon. Each created their own church to grant them more power but they were still physical beings (making the leap from demigod to true god is probably quite daunting - you have to lose your physical body which to many may mean death). There were of course other religions in Jhaamdath - many of them imported from Coramshan/Mir.


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TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1565 Posts

Posted - 08 Feb 2018 :  16:20:53  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I think it was Lost Empires of Faerūn that had Mystra 1.0 putting Auppenser to sleep so that he'd not fade away entirely.

Then he probably was thawed when Savras was, for the same reason.

quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon

the only and only ones that I would see auppenser saving would be the last members of jhaamdath's royalty and those who opposed the military coup before the coup. after that, none of them. too warlike and arrogant.

What about those who didn't oppose the coup out of not being too warlike?
Or simply too far from it / too weak and isolated to matter.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
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Edited by - TBeholder on 08 Feb 2018 16:21:24
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
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Posted - 08 Feb 2018 :  23:42:15  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have a similar take, Dazzler - gods DON'T 'leave their realm' because they ARE their realm. You ever watch One Piece? How the guy that ate the Castle-Castle fruit (Capone Bege) could create a 'world' (pocket-plane in D&D) inside himself, and store people and things there, and then he could even create an avatar of himself and go inside (himself). Like that. From the outside, those 'Godly Domains' would probably look like great big pulsing organs with energy crackling all around it - the 'god' itself (in a form that mortals can comprehend, since its true form would be incomprehensible).

On the subject of 'draconic deities': When all is said and done, there is NO SUCH THING. Nearly all the draconic powers pre-existed dragons, and thus, were never dragons. They just appear in the most common shape their worshipers prefer. This means that a lot of them could actually be other gods from other pantheons (which is the assumption I make when writing my 'mono-Myth' overcosmology stuff). Corellon and Gruumsh are as much 'dragons' as are the draconic powers. This is why I prefer to use my homebrew term 'Drękons' to describe beings of that power level - its synonymous with 'Elder God' (one of the ones that have been around 'since the beginning' - The Estelar and Primordials, among others).

And terrestrial dragons probably know all this, and that is why they find humans and others so amusing. They know the truth about 'the gods', and how religions are nothing more than clever advertising campaigns.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 08 Feb 2018 23:44:02
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sfdragon
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Posted - 09 Feb 2018 :  01:02:16  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
and you know the isolated/out of the way of jhaamdath were likely the survivors. which would mean the villages, and hamlets. anyone in the 12 cities themselves would not have been saved. the warlike, brainwashed and the soldiers and corrupt. you buy into the elves are evil and wont let us lumber their woodlands garbage and murder whole families....


why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


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LordofBones
Senior Scribe

558 Posts

Posted - 09 Feb 2018 :  02:12:35  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Maybe some psion doesn't want to worship a god of magic, doesn't want to worship a draconic deity (assuming Sardior has influence in the Realms, considering his domain orbits Oerth) and then manages to find an ancient scrap of lore that details Auppenser?

If you're using Pathfinder (or Dreamscarred Press's Psionics), Auppenser could be a patron of psychic magic in the same way Mystra and friends rule over arcane magic.
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Ayrik
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Canada
6562 Posts

Posted - 09 Feb 2018 :  05:25:21  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And not just "some psion" but illithids and their elder brains, perhaps even acting on behalf of Ilsensine!

A "dead" faith (in an Intermediate Deity) which is "resurrected"/"reincarnated" as an agency of a living faith (in a Greater Deity from an "alien" pantheon) would be interesting.

Human pantheons have a recurring theme of ascendancy through killing or replacing an existing deity to seize its power - a reflection of the aggressive human instinct to remove competitors. Humans are accustomed to moving or advancing through hierarchies by displacing others.

But illithids might have a very different instinct, one which favours the "conversion" or "domination" of an existing deity, using it as a "host" which then serves their interests. Mind flayers are accustomed to advancing worthy or useful candidates by merging them into more of themselves - and what better target than a "dormant" god of psionics who also happens to have a biology suitable for illithid implantation?

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 09 Feb 2018 05:28:14
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LordofBones
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558 Posts

Posted - 09 Feb 2018 :  06:07:38  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think Ilsensine is a bit too alien to care much about Auppenser. He'd be more likely to attempt to resurrect Maanzecorian, who was murdered by Tenebrous.

From Ilsensine's point of view, Maanzecorian was a useful servant that was murdered by an out of context problem, while Auppenser is some pathetic single-sphere power who's in a coma because nobody cares about him.
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The Masked Mage
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USA
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Posted - 09 Feb 2018 :  06:57:08  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Was there ever much information about him in the first place?
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Starshade
Learned Scribe

Norway
174 Posts

Posted - 09 Feb 2018 :  10:05:54  Show Profile Send Starshade a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Isn't there a few, perhaps 3-5 unique coloured planar dragons with names, one off each kind? Seem to remember they mentioned, as one special colour for each, like a breed with only 1 in existence... Will see if i find it..
A good match for an avatar or progency or whatever holding a piece of the psion god's power, would be an old semi divine gem dragon, imho. But there might be some 'canon' dragons useful.

A way to kickstart a cult would be if some non-humans, as Blues, or psion creatures still remember the god, and actually do some worship on occasion.
Btw: great idea for a campaign.
Edit: the dragon god Sardior and his Court of 5 unique gem dragons. He is the "youngest" dragon god.

Edited by - Starshade on 10 Feb 2018 10:45:54
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BadCatMan
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Australia
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Posted - 09 Feb 2018 :  11:18:23  Show Profile Send BadCatMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
We awoke Auppenser in my campaign. By accident. I ran an adapted form of the "Hasken's Manor" mini-module on the WotC, which has a psionic artifact called the Manacles of Freedom (a pair of broken manacles with powers to break mind control), which I explained as being a relic of Auppenser's faith, long-unused and charged with power. The fey'ri trickster PC, a soon-to-be dedicated follower of Erevan Ilesere, got a hold of the manacles and used them to liberate the skum slaves of an aboleth, then became an avatar of Auppenser. Since it was a wildly unbalanced fey'ri, this was the metaphysical equivalent of smelling salts up Auppenser's nose, stirring him from his long sleep. A diviner/seer PC, who'd died in the fight and gone to Auppenser's realm, got to see the god awake before being resurrected by the avatar. Erevan Ilesere engineered all this for kicks and giggles and just shake things up.

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sleyvas
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USA
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Posted - 09 Feb 2018 :  12:45:37  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
you know, that made me play the "what if" game in my head for a second... as in "what if Auppenser is some other ascended type of mortal being". I know we were discussing Sardior and his Thanes, as if it was a dragon ascendant posing as Auppenser... and that works. But the instant I heard avatar and aboleth, my mind went "what if he's an ascended aboleth". I immediately tossed the idea out of my head, because I don't see Mystra helping a Far Realms entity. I'd think the same way with mind flayers. Duergar already have an ascended psionic in Deep Duerra. Thri-Kreen seem a bit to alien-minded and are less psionic in realmspace anyway, but other hive minded insect people might work (not big on it). Are there any other races? My mind drew to Vhostym, the githvyrik known as the sojourner, and it might be interesting if there had been a collection of them and they bred with humans in Jhaamdath and one of them ascended to godhood. Given that the githvyrik are a form of ascended human (like all Gith kind), they should be able to breed with them. Any other options jump out?

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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