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The Masked Mage
Master of Realmslore

USA
1876 Posts

Posted - 25 Jan 2018 :  22:04:36  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I heard good things about Gargoyles, but I never got to watch any of them. Then again, I still haven't watched any of the D&D cartoon either. I guess I'm a Hanna-Barbera man, through-and-through. Go Herculoids!



Gargoyles was excellent, but Star Trek people like me will always have problems with the voices. Both Marina Sirtis (Counselor Deanna Troy) and Jonathan Frakes (Commander William Riker) voiced characters for the series and it was impossible to ignore.

Also one of the gargoyles was like a dog. Like gargoyles and gargoyle dog are from one evolutionary line and humand and our dogs are another - just strange.

That said, I liked the idea of Gargoyles being nocturnal creatures that guard over buildings while humans sleep and then turn to stone during the day.
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7253 Posts

Posted - 25 Jan 2018 :  22:44:03  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gargoyles was good. It delved into the concepts of Faerie as well as a lot of old mythologies.

Hmmm, and thank you for bringing that up. I had been playing with the idea of putting more classic trolls in Abeir (that turn to stone in sunlight). That reminded me of the gargoyles that do similar. I might have to compare ideas between a bunch of different resources.

Also, if you liked Thundercats, there was a redo of Thundercats that came out on cartoon network that was pretty good. Its probably available on Netflix or hulu or something, but you can also get the complete series for $25 on amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/ThunderCats-Complete-Artist-Not-Provided/dp/B00OWGP47C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1516920120&sr=8-1&keywords=thundercats+series

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 25 Jan 2018 22:46:45
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3170 Posts

Posted - 26 Jan 2018 :  02:52:37  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-Gargoyles was great, not just good!

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6626 Posts

Posted - 26 Jan 2018 :  14:29:20  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think I saw some Gargoyles. I was impressed ... catchy concept, fantastic imagery, neat cartoon ... but not impressed enough to keep tuning in for more.

The voices of Riker and Troi probably contributed greatly to my disinterest in the show. Never liked either of those characters on Star Trek, in fact I rather disliked them both quite a lot.

[/Ayrik]
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 26 Jan 2018 :  15:48:24  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm torn now. You guys have me half-convinced to try and find (and watch) the old series, but at the same time, I AM a Star Trek guy, and I think that would totally turn me off.

Ya know, I've been rewatching the ST:tNG series, because I thought it would hold up (unlike the original series), but its not nearly as good as I remembered it, and YEAH, a LOT of the characters are more annoying than interesting - Troi and Riker barely take a back seat to Wesley Crusher. Weird how I don't even remember them replacing his mother. I think the whole Pickard/Jordi/Data thing was all that held it together. Its so weird watching it now - the whole first season they had a different 'chief engineer' in every episode (the guy who would go on to have that job was just the guy who pushed the transporter levers up & down), and the captain only referred to Wesley as "The Boy". And don't even get me started on Whoopi Goldberg - she suddenly appears in season 2 and they act like the show revolves around her bar and everyone loves her? In my memory she didn't come around until much later in the series, but NOPE, there she is, season 2, 'space bartender'. *ugh*

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Gargoyles was good. It delved into the concepts of Faerie as well as a lot of old mythologies.

Hmmm, and thank you for bringing that up. I had been playing with the idea of putting more classic trolls in Abeir (that turn to stone in sunlight). That reminded me of the gargoyles that do similar. I might have to compare ideas between a bunch of different resources.

Also, if you liked Thundercats, there was a redo of Thundercats that came out on cartoon network that was pretty good. Its probably available on Netflix or hulu or something, but you can also get the complete series for $25 on amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/ThunderCats-Complete-Artist-Not-Provided/dp/B00OWGP47C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1516920120&sr=8-1&keywords=thundercats+series

I'm purposely avoiding the new Thundercat series - I heard it will make a fan's skin crawl (the two kids from the first series were turned into sex-slaves of Mumra? So, like pedophilia coupled with necrophilia? What sicko writer had that wetdream as a child?)

Agreed on trolls - I wish D&D had stuck closer to the folklore and Tolkien on that one.

But we DO have the folklore variety in D&D/FR canon - there was one of the small 'bridge trolls' in the Moonshaes novels, that came from Faerie (now the Feywild). For those, I just use the Runequest term, 'Trollkin' (except I say 'Trollkyn' so as to not step on their IP over-much). They look (and act) very much like the troll from the movie of the same name.

We could always say our (garden-variety D&D) trolls WERE due to experimentation - someone took a true troll (fairy troll) and crossed it with something else - probably an ogre. That would work. Instead of coming up with something roughly human-sized and resilient (a good soldier), the created an abomination. It also helps to marry the Ogre/Troll thing with Vaprak.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 26 Jan 2018 15:52:04
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3593 Posts

Posted - 26 Jan 2018 :  17:28:34  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Try these trolls:

Troll, Rock (Giant-Kin)
Frequency: Rare
No. Appearing: 1 (or 4-16)
Armor Class: 3
Move: 12”
Hit Dice: 7+7
% in Lair: 50%
Treasure Type: J, K, L, M (all x10; E in group lair only)
No. of Attacks: 2
Damage: 1-6+7 or by weapon +7
Special Attacks: See below
Special Defenses: See below
Magic Resistance: Standard
Intelligence: Low
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral (Evil)
Size: L (8’+)
Psionic Ability: Nil
S: 19 I: 6 W: 12 D: 10 C: 19 CH: 6 CO: 8
XP Value: 575 +9/hit point

Rock Trolls live all throughout Rivland; but usually only as solitary individuals. They prefer caves for their lair, but are just as much at home beneath the stony arch of a bridge (thus the many tales of trolls living beneath bridges); but will rarely live in heavily traveled areas at all due to the hostility of mankind.

They prefer to lay in wait for meals, having the ability to blend into natural and/or stony surroundings due to their stony hide and plant-like hair (that covers much of their body) as a 15th level thief might hide in shadows (99% of the time) gaining surprise on any who do not detect them; though Druids and Rangers can often spot Rock Trolls, deducting their own level from the “thief level” of the Troll hiding (thus a 10th level ranger or druid causes the Troll to hide as a 5th level thief, giving only a 31% chance of being undetected). On the island of Grundir or in the Kragg Spine Mountains, these trolls are so numerous that they live in large family groups; and only in the rarest instances will a solitary troll be found there.

Rock Trolls rarely enter combat with weapons, as their powerful fists are capable of crushing any foe. Those who do happen across a weapon of suitable size (pole-arms, two-handed swords and the like) will use such weapons in one hand while continuing to pound away with their off-hand; never using more than one weapon at a time. Any foe missed by a troll’s fist by only one point, must save versus crushing blow for their shield or it will be ruined; if they are not using a shield their armor must instead make a similar save or also be badly damaged, losing a point of armor class protection until repaired.

Trolls are so hardy, that they are immune to all natural poisons, diseases and mundane fire (it causes them no harm). They also regenerate 3 hit points each round so long as they are standing on the ground. When reduced to half or fewer hit points a Rock Troll goes into a berserk attack which lasts until the combat is over or they are reduced to zero hit points (even if they regenerate above half hit points, they remain berserk). This berserk fit causes them to drop any weapon they carry and attempt to wrestle any foe to the ground to be torn to pieces by them. If they succeed in hitting a foe with both fists, their target must save versus paralysis or be knocked prone with the Troll atop them and it will thereafter automatically hit with both attacks until the troll or its foe is dead. Each round the target of this attack can attempt to free itself from beneath the troll, but to do so they must succeed at a save versus paralysis with cumulative -2 each round. Large foes and those with a strength superior to the troll are immune to this form of attack. They sink like a rock and have no ability to swim; but can apparently breath under water, but dislike to cross water unless hard pressed.

Trolls never cease to grow (growing 1 foot per decade after maturity), and larger specimens (having 8+8 to 12+12 hit dice, gaining an additional point of strength and hit die with each 2 feet) are known to exist. They become far more lethargic the older they get; some sleeping for decades when of the largest size. Earl Agdi of Grundir uses only the youngest of trolls as his enforcers and battlefield heavy infantry; and such trolls will always carry weapons.

The Trolls of Grundir are accepting of the commands given them by their Master’s Mistresses, but any others would, likely as not, be eaten on the spot. Such a fate is often meted out as the Earl’s justice.


AD&D for me!
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The Masked Mage
Master of Realmslore

USA
1876 Posts

Posted - 26 Jan 2018 :  17:52:59  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I'm torn now. You guys have me half-convinced to try and find (and watch) the old series, but at the same time, I AM a Star Trek guy, and I think that would totally turn me off.

Ya know, I've been rewatching the ST:tNG series, because I thought it would hold up (unlike the original series), but its not nearly as good as I remembered it, and YEAH, a LOT of the characters are more annoying than interesting - Troi and Riker barely take a back seat to Wesley Crusher. Weird how I don't even remember them replacing his mother. I think the whole Pickard/Jordi/Data thing was all that held it together. Its so weird watching it now - the whole first season they had a different 'chief engineer' in every episode (the guy who would go on to have that job was just the guy who pushed the transporter levers up & down), and the captain only referred to Wesley as "The Boy". And don't even get me started on Whoopi Goldberg - she suddenly appears in season 2 and they act like the show revolves around her bar and everyone loves her? In my memory she didn't come around until much later in the series, but NOPE, there she is, season 2, 'space bartender'. *ugh*



I'm a big Star Trek guy - I'm even downloading Discovery to see how it goes.

TNG has some amazing episodes to it, and others that were downright hokey. Most people remember encounter at farpoint as excellent, but when you re-watch it it becomes laughable. Also, so many of the concepts introduced in TNG become second hand and are abused by later series... Hell, even the borg are turned into toothless by the insanity of Voyager.

Still, I'd argue that All Good Things is the single best fantasy episode (ok, its really 2 episodes) of any series ever, with the possible exception of a Twilight Zone episode or two. The writing was fantastic and the acting of good old Patrick Stewart was stellar.

Then came TNG movies which pretty much sucked. Even first contact, which again benefited from the acting had to fight bad writers. I mean seriously, who tries to re-write Moby Dick in a scene where you have the characters quoting Moby Dick - that's just fkn insane. How arrogant do you have to be to believe you're a better writer than Melville? But I digress :P

Of all the Star Trek series, by far my favorite is Deep Space Nine. If you remove a couple episodes it would have very few flaws.
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The Masked Mage
Master of Realmslore

USA
1876 Posts

Posted - 26 Jan 2018 :  17:55:58  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
PS - I always liked Guinan and still wish they would do something interesting with ElAurians.
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7253 Posts

Posted - 26 Jan 2018 :  21:13:35  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

Try these trolls:

Troll, Rock (Giant-Kin)
Frequency: Rare
No. Appearing: 1 (or 4-16)
Armor Class: 3
Move: 12”
Hit Dice: 7+7
% in Lair: 50%
Treasure Type: J, K, L, M (all x10; E in group lair only)
No. of Attacks: 2
Damage: 1-6+7 or by weapon +7
Special Attacks: See below
Special Defenses: See below
Magic Resistance: Standard
Intelligence: Low
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral (Evil)
Size: L (8’+)
Psionic Ability: Nil
S: 19 I: 6 W: 12 D: 10 C: 19 CH: 6 CO: 8
XP Value: 575 +9/hit point

Rock Trolls live all throughout Rivland; but usually only as solitary individuals. They prefer caves for their lair, but are just as much at home beneath the stony arch of a bridge (thus the many tales of trolls living beneath bridges); but will rarely live in heavily traveled areas at all due to the hostility of mankind.

They prefer to lay in wait for meals, having the ability to blend into natural and/or stony surroundings due to their stony hide and plant-like hair (that covers much of their body) as a 15th level thief might hide in shadows (99% of the time) gaining surprise on any who do not detect them; though Druids and Rangers can often spot Rock Trolls, deducting their own level from the “thief level” of the Troll hiding (thus a 10th level ranger or druid causes the Troll to hide as a 5th level thief, giving only a 31% chance of being undetected). On the island of Grundir or in the Kragg Spine Mountains, these trolls are so numerous that they live in large family groups; and only in the rarest instances will a solitary troll be found there.

Rock Trolls rarely enter combat with weapons, as their powerful fists are capable of crushing any foe. Those who do happen across a weapon of suitable size (pole-arms, two-handed swords and the like) will use such weapons in one hand while continuing to pound away with their off-hand; never using more than one weapon at a time. Any foe missed by a troll’s fist by only one point, must save versus crushing blow for their shield or it will be ruined; if they are not using a shield their armor must instead make a similar save or also be badly damaged, losing a point of armor class protection until repaired.

Trolls are so hardy, that they are immune to all natural poisons, diseases and mundane fire (it causes them no harm). They also regenerate 3 hit points each round so long as they are standing on the ground. When reduced to half or fewer hit points a Rock Troll goes into a berserk attack which lasts until the combat is over or they are reduced to zero hit points (even if they regenerate above half hit points, they remain berserk). This berserk fit causes them to drop any weapon they carry and attempt to wrestle any foe to the ground to be torn to pieces by them. If they succeed in hitting a foe with both fists, their target must save versus paralysis or be knocked prone with the Troll atop them and it will thereafter automatically hit with both attacks until the troll or its foe is dead. Each round the target of this attack can attempt to free itself from beneath the troll, but to do so they must succeed at a save versus paralysis with cumulative -2 each round. Large foes and those with a strength superior to the troll are immune to this form of attack. They sink like a rock and have no ability to swim; but can apparently breath under water, but dislike to cross water unless hard pressed.

Trolls never cease to grow (growing 1 foot per decade after maturity), and larger specimens (having 8+8 to 12+12 hit dice, gaining an additional point of strength and hit die with each 2 feet) are known to exist. They become far more lethargic the older they get; some sleeping for decades when of the largest size. Earl Agdi of Grundir uses only the youngest of trolls as his enforcers and battlefield heavy infantry; and such trolls will always carry weapons.

The Trolls of Grundir are accepting of the commands given them by their Master’s Mistresses, but any others would, likely as not, be eaten on the spot. Such a fate is often meted out as the Earl’s justice.





Hmmm, I do like some of the description of them being able to hide and especially the name. Also the part where they go berserk and maybe that they regenerate when touching stone (maybe an ability instead to use crushed stone to heal themselves). Just wondering, what was this from?

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7253 Posts

Posted - 26 Jan 2018 :  21:15:39  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I'm purposely avoiding the new Thundercat series - I heard it will make a fan's skin crawl (the two kids from the first series were turned into sex-slaves of Mumra? So, like pedophilia coupled with necrophilia? What sicko writer had that wetdream as a child?)



I honestly can't say I recall that.... maybe there was something I missed. It has probably been 5 years or more since I saw the series as well.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3593 Posts

Posted - 26 Jan 2018 :  21:31:54  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

Try these trolls:

Troll, Rock (Giant-Kin)


Hmmm, I do like some of the description of them being able to hide and especially the name. Also the part where they go berserk and maybe that they regenerate when touching stone (maybe an ability instead to use crushed stone to heal themselves). Just wondering, what was this from?



Rock Trolls are from the World of Ark setting from Ravenlore Publishing Group...but particularly from the Rivlands. They can be found in the book Midnight in Mogheim.

AD&D for me!
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6626 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2018 :  15:35:00  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I agree that re-watching TNG episodes makes it look very dated now. I recall the first time I ever saw the Borg - resistance is futile OMG! - and my father casually said "those guys will look really cheesy 25 years from now". Same applies to all those old cartoons once watched every Saturday morning with childlike worship and wonder.

Discovery is pretty slick and impressive, no expense spared, love the uniforms and badges and general tech stuff, all very awesome. The "canon" stuff's been argued to death in other warzones, I just take the show for what it is and accept that it's more like Abrams-Trek than like old-Trek, albeit darker. The eponymous ship is cool-looking but it is not really Federation-looking, the new klingons are also cool while also hard to equate with old klingons, reading subtitles while listening to harsh guttural gargling for twenty minutes at a time is a needless cruelty, trendy overkill lens flaring and "closed perspective" space shots are simply frustrating. The show's got political correctness and openly secret political agendas galore, which is a little objectionable but is also where all of the "canon" trek shows (especially TNG!) boldly went before. The title sequence looks like it was done on AutoCAD, which is a small thing but for me evokes strongly mixed feelings, lol.
All told, I think it's a "good" show but it's also "hard" to watch, going through the whole season actually felt like a chore but had a few very rewarding surprises (like the "new" Harry Mudd).
It also seems obvious to me that Discovery is going to constantly struggle for viewers/ratings, I honestly think it will die before the end of season 3, after too many heavy-handed blunders with ever-increasing auctorial inflation and cliffhangers and "up to 11" convolutions scare off all but the most fanatically hardcore Trekkies. Maybe it'll have enough momentum to keep moving forward, but I've seen too many other similar shows die this horrible death.
And that's especially sad, especially after the way CBS/Paramount killed Axanar and other fan-Trek, because a failed Discovery would burn the whole Trek "franchise" into ruin forever.

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 27 Jan 2018 15:52:23
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2018 :  20:09:30  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
See? I like Voyager. I didn't like DS9 - its the only one I didn't bother with (I watched some of it, but then it got too complicated and I gave-up on it). Whereas DS9 was a bit too 'cerebral' (it took itself way too seriously), Voyager was just a fun romp through space - like Lost in Space on steroids. I know that goes against everything I just said about liking ST over SW, but c'mon, even a Star trek fan likes explosions once in a while. And some of the stuff they did with 'time' and the whole alien vs predator thing (species 8472 vs Hirogen) was pretty cool. Plus, I loved the concept of 'The Doctor' (self-aware Holograms). Other parts were a mess, but I can say that about most ST series.

I still want to see the Collective (Borg) vs the Dominion (Changelings). An unstoppable Force meets an Unmovable object - it would be pretty epic (assuming, of course, the Changelings unique, adaptive biology would not allow the Borg virus to get a foothold).

I'm dying to see Discovery - it looks AMAZING, but I refuse to pay for a channel I will get no other use out of. Sooner or later it will be available somewhere else, and I'll see it then. I just hope it doesn't get canceled before it has a chance to really shine.

quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

Rock Trolls are from the World of Ark setting from Ravenlore Publishing Group...but particularly from the Rivlands. They can be found in the book Midnight in Mogheim.
Don't lie, they're from Frozen

I kid, I kid. That write-up is great! (so's that setting! You really need to consider porting the Rivlands into the Realms and putting it on the DMsGuild.)

But seriously, giving the ability to actual become rocks to hide isn't such a bad idea.

@Slevas - I wouldn't know either, have NOT watched it, but I did read an article about it just a couple of weeks ago. Sounded pretty creepy. I recall The Thundercats too fondly for me to go and ruin it now (I don't even want to watch old episodes - I did that with Thundarr and BOY, was THAT a mistake...)

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 28 Jan 2018 00:04:58
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The Masked Mage
Master of Realmslore

USA
1876 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2018 :  21:26:23  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My problem with Voyager was that the creator decided to say "Screw it, we're no longer going to worry about feasibility." The entirety of the Federation was not a match for 1 borg ship, but Voyager can take on the entire collective alone and win, over and over, and also beat the aliens that beat the borg AND EVERYONE ELSE. Also wee need to token indian to pray to spirit guides along the way because indians are cool. Also, Indians are actually aliens from the other side of the galaxy. And so are dinosaurs. Some of those episodes made me want to throw the TV through the wall :P
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2018 :  21:42:36  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You didn't like the multi-part storyline about the chronotons? Thats was amazing, IMO. Of course, being a 'time war', everything went back to the way it was. Still pretty cool, though.

And Native Americans ARE aliens! Didn't you see that episode of tOS where Kirk married Miramoni? "Behold! Kiroc, the god that bleeds!"

They need to do a spin-off where they go back and clone a bunch of women Kirk slept with, and then have a clone of him sending them off to solve crimes and do adventures! Kirk's Angels, starring Indian Chick, Green Catgirl, and Crackhead Ensign! (after the first season, we replace Yoeman Rand with a slew of nameless, scantily-clad, air-head blonde bimbos - no-one will know the difference). Harry Mudd definitely gets to be a recurring villain.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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The Masked Mage
Master of Realmslore

USA
1876 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2018 :  23:09:10  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't remember the "chronoton" thing tbh. I do remember they had some show about time cops that were mad at them for something. That's it.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 28 Jan 2018 :  00:04:15  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I didn't see the 'timecops' thing, but in another show they showed up, and Janeway knew them 'from before', so I assumed I had missed an episode (quite a few, actually - I think the original series is the only one I've seen every single episode of). Its probably the one where the Doctor got that wrist-thingy that let him leave the ship (talk about McGuffins!).

There was a multi-parter (it may have been a season cliff-hanger, extending into the premiere next season) where they discovered 'Chronoton technology' Basically, 'time particles'. The Federation was aware of them before, but that storyline took it to a whole 'nother level. Some race figured-out how to weaponize it, and they basically 'erased' entire species from the timeline. They had to invent 'chrono-shielding' just to keep from being erased by the enemy, and allied with many other nearby races... most of whom got erased during the storyline. It was pretty good - I like Time Stuff (also a DW fan, even though that show has ZERO consistency and is silly as hell... but its so BRITISH!) The best part about it - Voyager was somewhat immune, because the enemy had no idea where the ship came from (you have to fire a weapon at the homeworld if you want to eradicate a species). Instead, the ship kept changing - even the uniforms, crew (Kes made a cameo!), Chakotay haircuts, etc. It was fun. At one point, most of the crew was dead, even Chakotay. And how can you NOT like seven-of-Nine? Space-hotties! LOL

Then there was species 8472 - SO OP! 10 Borg Cubes go rushing by Voyager (one slows down to look at them, and then keeps going). Curious - and ABUNDANTLY stupid - Janeway decides to have a look at whatever has their panties in a bunch. A few minutes later, she comes across 10 completely destroyed Borg Cubes. I recall seeing that episode for the first time and was like, "what the ***k?" Who the hell can bitch-slap the BORG?" Too bad they were B-rate CGI.

Yeah, there was a lot of bad - I couldn't stand Neelix and Kes, but I loved that we had a female captain, and the basic premise was pretty cool (limping their way back home). Ultimately, The Doctor and Seven-of-Nine held it together for me (hey, if they did a crossover with Stranger Things, do you think they'd call it Seven-Eleven?)

Ummmm... Conan. Yeah. Muscles and stuff. LOL Where were we?

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 28 Jan 2018 00:05:39
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7253 Posts

Posted - 28 Jan 2018 :  14:22:09  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

I agree that re-watching TNG episodes makes it look very dated now. I recall the first time I ever saw the Borg - resistance is futile OMG! - and my father casually said "those guys will look really cheesy 25 years from now". Same applies to all those old cartoons once watched every Saturday morning with childlike worship and wonder.

Discovery is pretty slick and impressive, no expense spared, love the uniforms and badges and general tech stuff, all very awesome. The "canon" stuff's been argued to death in other warzones, I just take the show for what it is and accept that it's more like Abrams-Trek than like old-Trek, albeit darker. The eponymous ship is cool-looking but it is not really Federation-looking, the new klingons are also cool while also hard to equate with old klingons, reading subtitles while listening to harsh guttural gargling for twenty minutes at a time is a needless cruelty, trendy overkill lens flaring and "closed perspective" space shots are simply frustrating. The show's got political correctness and openly secret political agendas galore, which is a little objectionable but is also where all of the "canon" trek shows (especially TNG!) boldly went before. The title sequence looks like it was done on AutoCAD, which is a small thing but for me evokes strongly mixed feelings, lol.
All told, I think it's a "good" show but it's also "hard" to watch, going through the whole season actually felt like a chore but had a few very rewarding surprises (like the "new" Harry Mudd).
It also seems obvious to me that Discovery is going to constantly struggle for viewers/ratings, I honestly think it will die before the end of season 3, after too many heavy-handed blunders with ever-increasing auctorial inflation and cliffhangers and "up to 11" convolutions scare off all but the most fanatically hardcore Trekkies. Maybe it'll have enough momentum to keep moving forward, but I've seen too many other similar shows die this horrible death.
And that's especially sad, especially after the way CBS/Paramount killed Axanar and other fan-Trek, because a failed Discovery would burn the whole Trek "franchise" into ruin forever.



I've been interested in watching the new show, but honestly the price per month when I only want one show is what threw me. Is there anything else they're putting out there to make up for this fact? Bearing in mind, I have directv with hbo, showtime, starz, plus amazon prime and Netflix.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Gyor
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Posted - 29 Jan 2018 :  23:13:24  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

I agree that re-watching TNG episodes makes it look very dated now. I recall the first time I ever saw the Borg - resistance is futile OMG! - and my father casually said "those guys will look really cheesy 25 years from now". Same applies to all those old cartoons once watched every Saturday morning with childlike worship and wonder.

Discovery is pretty slick and impressive, no expense spared, love the uniforms and badges and general tech stuff, all very awesome. The "canon" stuff's been argued to death in other warzones, I just take the show for what it is and accept that it's more like Abrams-Trek than like old-Trek, albeit darker. The eponymous ship is cool-looking but it is not really Federation-looking, the new klingons are also cool while also hard to equate with old klingons, reading subtitles while listening to harsh guttural gargling for twenty minutes at a time is a needless cruelty, trendy overkill lens flaring and "closed perspective" space shots are simply frustrating. The show's got political correctness and openly secret political agendas galore, which is a little objectionable but is also where all of the "canon" trek shows (especially TNG!) boldly went before. The title sequence looks like it was done on AutoCAD, which is a small thing but for me evokes strongly mixed feelings, lol.
All told, I think it's a "good" show but it's also "hard" to watch, going through the whole season actually felt like a chore but had a few very rewarding surprises (like the "new" Harry Mudd).
It also seems obvious to me that Discovery is going to constantly struggle for viewers/ratings, I honestly think it will die before the end of season 3, after too many heavy-handed blunders with ever-increasing auctorial inflation and cliffhangers and "up to 11" convolutions scare off all but the most fanatically hardcore Trekkies. Maybe it'll have enough momentum to keep moving forward, but I've seen too many other similar shows die this horrible death.
And that's especially sad, especially after the way CBS/Paramount killed Axanar and other fan-Trek, because a failed Discovery would burn the whole Trek "franchise" into ruin forever.



I've been interested in watching the new show, but honestly the price per month when I only want one show is what threw me. Is there anything else they're putting out there to make up for this fact? Bearing in mind, I have directv with hbo, showtime, starz, plus amazon prime and Netflix.



What country are you in? In Canada you can get it on cravetv, but signing up you might get a free month.

In fact if you are American you might have the option to get a free month of the cbs streaming service when you sign up too

So if you wait till say the season finally is over, you can get your free trial month and watch all the eousides for free, plus see what else you like on CBS All Access.
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Ayrik
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Canada
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Posted - 30 Jan 2018 :  01:06:39  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm in Canada but have already seen the show (up to S01E09, they're at S01E15 now). Sleyvas is in USA and has not.
(The first episode is always available as a free download/stream at the CBS site, watchable from any browser, no cost, no signup, no survey, no annoyance, no obligation.)

How & Where To Watch Star Trek: Discovery
CBS site

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 30 Jan 2018 01:19:37
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sleyvas
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USA
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Posted - 30 Jan 2018 :  01:22:17  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, I've been playing with the idea of waiting for the season to finish then watching it as a binge session over a week. Honestly, I'd be willing to pick up another $8 or so a month bill, if only I knew there was SOMETHING else they're making to add. I mean, I keep paying for showtime, and I honestly can't think of anything I'm watching on it right now. I think everything I'm watching is Starz and HBO.... could be wrong.

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Markustay
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USA
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Posted - 30 Jan 2018 :  01:34:32  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The only thing I'm watching is Crunchy Roll... until GoT comes back.

Speaking of which - I am currently watching Log Horizon and digging it. Much better made than Swordart Online - they get into the 'nitty gritty' of the game mechanics, which I love.

I don't want to give anything away, but one character turned out to be neither a human (PC) or NPC ("people of the Land"), and I was like, what else is there? She was a farming-Bot! How amazing is that? In-game she says, "I am a cash farming-bot for a company out of China". I guess you'd have to see it and understand the basic premise to understand why stuff like that is significant - basically, she was no longer being controlled by her original app). The people are all stuck in a video game, and they are trying to hack their way out -the way they come up with 'cheats' and solutions for things is so gamer-based, and just as a D&D player you'd love the attention to detail.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 30 Jan 2018 01:45:18
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Lord Karsus
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USA
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Posted - 30 Jan 2018 :  21:21:39  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-I dunno, of all the things I've seen in that genre, Sword Art Online generally seems like the best. Overlord is another one that I started watching, and while I'm only like three episodes in, it's nowhere as...I dunno as Sword Art Online. Same genre but different subgenre, I guess. I added that one to my list now, though.

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Edited by - Lord Karsus on 30 Jan 2018 21:22:53
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Markustay
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USA
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Posted - 31 Jan 2018 :  07:35:29  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I actually stopped watching the 3rd (2nd?) season of Swordart - they solved the main plot in the second episode ("look for the murderer... there he is!"), and then after that it was just people playing a video game... it was meaningless.

I did like the first series a lot, and I like Alfheim, but that other one was just *meh*.

Have you tried Log Horizon? The way they call-out game stuff is done very well (it isn't jarring, and it also isn't stupid - there is a LOT of internal consistency there). SA just ignored world-stuff, like what food tasted like. LH digs into all that. And now they're getting into the mega-importance of 'flavor text' - history bits they attach to items. Its very cool.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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sfdragon
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Posted - 31 Jan 2018 :  09:53:55  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Netflix is supposed to get discovery.....

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


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