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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Jan 2018 : 09:24:04
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Reading through the old Spellbound boxed set and came across something interesting:
High priestess Dienje Xavarri (NE hf P14)... is a true fanatic, dedicating every aspect of her life to the Godson. Dark rumors hint that she has even enjoyed an intimate relationship with Iyachtu himself and borne him at least one child, though no one is certain whether such progeny would be divine or not. The consequences of a living grandson of Bane are unknown, although none of them are likely to be pleasant should the child prove to be real and manifest divine powers.
I'm curious what all the Xvim / Bane lovers here at Candlekeep think about the possibilities this presents.
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2018 : 11:32:17
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| Probably turned into Xvim flambe by dear ol' gramps. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2018 : 13:07:19
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Oh, I'm loving that. So, that would be around 1368 DR for that entry in Spellbound. If Wooly is indeed right, and Xvim is the "reborn Bane".... I'd love for Dienje Xavarri to be a Mulan blooded woman who can trace her ancestry back to ancient Unther.... possibly a line of the god-kings that has died out. My first thought went to Gilgeam, but Inanna also fits. Having Bane => Xvim => the rebirth of some power hungry Untheric entity just smacks of fun to me. That or having Bane have actually cruelly used Xvim, and use this as a vehicle to bring back Xvim. Having Dienje die during the Thayan civil war and the child be taken to Mourktar's temple, "The Black Lord's Cloak", might be fun. Around the time of the spellplague, he'd most likely JUST be hitting adulthood.
By the way, this from Faiths and Avatars COULD possibly be fun to mix into this:
The Xvimlar are busily roaming Faerūn, inspired by the coming out of their Cruel Master into open godhood. Wherever they go they are challenging and slaying clergy of Cyric (their acknowledged enemy) and urging still-faithful Banite priests to join in worship of Xvim#151;or perish at their hands. For the most part, they have been successful at converting the remaining ultra-orthodox Banite, who see Xvim as holding the most valid claim to succeed Bane.
The leaders and spies in this #147;conversion#148; work are the authlims#151; whose primary mission, though, is to kidnap especially ruthless and powerful people (tyrants) to take their spirits to Xvim for him to feed upon.
Both sorts of priests of Xvim have as their secondary missions the slaughter of the priests and clergy members of all other faiths than Xvim#146;s, the spreading of fear, and the enhancement of Xvim#146;s reputation by acts of cruelty and tyranny. Eliminating other priests must be done covertly, however, lest all faiths rise up together against the church of Xvim and overwhelm it.
Wouldn't it be interesting if the new Gilgeam were Iyachtu Xvim reborn in a body with blood links back to Gilgeam, wearing the Black Lord's Cloak, and attempting to kill the tyrant primordial Karshimis to draw in his power to become a god again. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2018 : 14:58:19
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Iyachtu Xvim has been described as a cambion, so I'd expect any little Xvimlings to be tieflings.
My first thought would be a tiefling with the powers of a Banelich.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 08 Jan 2018 15:23:49 |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2018 : 15:00:29
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| I miss Baneliches. I always thought they were deadly. |
Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2018 : 15:21:20
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| Mmm I do like the idea of a tiefling lineage descending from Bane. Even more so, the Ritual of the Asmodeus wouldn't have affected this specific lineage, as I really doubt Bryseis and her pal warlocks were even aware of its existence, or were able to get a sample blood from Iyachtu (though, they could have got one of his descendants). |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2018 : 15:29:53
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Here's another thought... Iyachtu Xvim's mother is sometimes said to be a demon -- but it's also said she was a paladin. (I did figure out a way to reconcile that, too!)
What if there was more than one Xvimling, and one rejected their fell heritage and became a paladin of Torm?
I used a very similar idea for a Hook, back in the day:
Dark eyes are watching Jalyk Bluefeather.
A young tiefling with intense, glowing green eyes, Jalyk Bluefeather presented himself to the temple of Torm two years ago, hoping to enter the service of the True as a paladin. Though some within the church were wary of Jalyks obviously infernal heritage, they could find no fault with the hopeful young man. He passed every test that could be given, and succeeded at every challenge set before him. His dedication and sense of duty was such that Jalyk was an inspiration to his fellow aspirants.
Just three months ago, Jalyk was accepted into Torms service. His glowing eyes now shining with zeal, Jalyk immediately volunteered for whatever mission his superiors wanted him to take. To further accentuate his devotion to duty, the tiefling was temporarily assigned to the city watch.
His time among the watch was well-spent. He dedicated himself to being as useful as possible, so much so that the watch commander asked Jalyk if he wanted to join the watch on a permanent basis. Jalyk declined, but he continued to offer exemplary service to the city.
However, another member of the church, Nalgrym of Scornubel, has noticed that Jalyk is often watched by shadowy figures. Nalgrym was a thief before entering Torms service, so he is often used by his superiors to secretly observe prospective or new church members. The former thief has noted that at least one cloaked figure can usually be found trailing Jalyk; sometimes the tiefling is followed by as many as three other individuals. Worse still, one of the skulkers, Connel Shatterhand, is known to be a devout follower of Bane.
Jalyk is being sent out of town on a mission, and the church elders fear that his shadowy watchers may attempt to capture the young paladin for some nefarious purpose. They want the PCs to follow Jalyk on his mission, and to ensure that he is allowed to carry out his assigned tasks. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Cyrinishad
Learned Scribe
300 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2018 : 19:58:48
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Oh, I'm loving that. So, that would be around 1368 DR for that entry in Spellbound. If Wooly is indeed right, and Xvim is the "reborn Bane".... I'd love for Dienje Xavarri to be a Mulan blooded woman who can trace her ancestry back to ancient Unther.... possibly a line of the god-kings that has died out. My first thought went to Gilgeam, but Inanna also fits. Having Bane => Xvim => the rebirth of some power hungry Untheric entity just smacks of fun to me. That or having Bane have actually cruelly used Xvim, and use this as a vehicle to bring back Xvim. Having Dienje die during the Thayan civil war and the child be taken to Mourktar's temple, "The Black Lord's Cloak", might be fun. Around the time of the spellplague, he'd most likely JUST be hitting adulthood.
By the way, this from Faiths and Avatars COULD possibly be fun to mix into this:
The Xvimlar are busily roaming Faerūn, inspired by the coming out of their Cruel Master into open godhood. Wherever they go they are challenging and slaying clergy of Cyric (their acknowledged enemy) and urging still-faithful Banite priests to join in worship of Xvim#151;or perish at their hands. For the most part, they have been successful at converting the remaining ultra-orthodox Banite, who see Xvim as holding the most valid claim to succeed Bane.
The leaders and spies in this #147;conversion#148; work are the authlims#151; whose primary mission, though, is to kidnap especially ruthless and powerful people (tyrants) to take their spirits to Xvim for him to feed upon.
Both sorts of priests of Xvim have as their secondary missions the slaughter of the priests and clergy members of all other faiths than Xvim#146;s, the spreading of fear, and the enhancement of Xvim#146;s reputation by acts of cruelty and tyranny. Eliminating other priests must be done covertly, however, lest all faiths rise up together against the church of Xvim and overwhelm it.
Wouldn't it be interesting if the new Gilgeam were Iyachtu Xvim reborn in a body with blood links back to Gilgeam, wearing the Black Lord's Cloak, and attempting to kill the tyrant primordial Karshimis to draw in his power to become a god again.
Wow!  Talk about coming full circle... Great stuff. Especially since one of my earliest musings here on the Keep was about drawing parallels between Bane & Gilgamesh... One of these possible links between the two is that in Sumerian the name Gilgamesh is pronounced "Bilgamesh", and "ANE" is an acronym commonly used to refer to the "Ancient Near East"... so, theoretically "BANE" could itself be an acronym title combining his true name and origin... Hats off to the Masked Mage for bringing up the possibility of the "Grandson"... |
To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge. -Socrates
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. -Dr. Seuss |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2018 : 22:12:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Could see this character as being "insurance" for Xvim, a la the Bhaalspawn.
This is more along the lines of what i was thinking... although given the time frame, it served instead as Banespawn. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2018 : 12:22:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Iyachtu Xvim has been described as a cambion, so I'd expect any little Xvimlings to be tieflings.
My first thought would be a tiefling with the powers of a Banelich.
Good point. I had forgotten that piece, and the part about the mother being listed as both a paladin and a fiend.
Along those lines, I wonder if his mother is still alive. Having been a demoness, I could see something where she was impregnated and then someone determines that the best way to turn the situation around is to put a helm of opposite alignment on her. Would it be interesting if Xvim were actually raised amongst the beautiful celestials.... some of whom feared him... or resented him... or "secretly" told their fellows that they should just kill the evil before it grows up.... and that's how he became a lord of fear and hatred.
I had never thought much about it either, but the fact that the first time he appeared in the world was over Westgate... the city with the hills of the seven lost gods which supposedly the dark three conquered to take their divine sparks. Not sure of that significance, but there must be some.
Hmmm, speaking of that..... Savras was one of those "lost gods".... I wonder if he LET Azuth entrap him so that he wouldn't be forced to face against the dark three. Being a god of divination, it would definitely be within his purview to have that foresight, and it was hinted at that maybe he allowed it to happen. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2018 : 14:32:55
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Iyachtu Xvim has been described as a cambion, so I'd expect any little Xvimlings to be tieflings.
My first thought would be a tiefling with the powers of a Banelich.
Good point. I had forgotten that piece, and the part about the mother being listed as both a paladin and a fiend.
Along those lines, I wonder if his mother is still alive. Having been a demoness, I could see something where she was impregnated and then someone determines that the best way to turn the situation around is to put a helm of opposite alignment on her. Would it be interesting if Xvim were actually raised amongst the beautiful celestials.... some of whom feared him... or resented him... or "secretly" told their fellows that they should just kill the evil before it grows up.... and that's how he became a lord of fear and hatred.
I had never thought much about it either, but the fact that the first time he appeared in the world was over Westgate... the city with the hills of the seven lost gods which supposedly the dark three conquered to take their divine sparks. Not sure of that significance, but there must be some.
Hmmm, speaking of that..... Savras was one of those "lost gods".... I wonder if he LET Azuth entrap him so that he wouldn't be forced to face against the dark three. Being a god of divination, it would definitely be within his purview to have that foresight, and it was hinted at that maybe he allowed it to happen.
My thought is that his mother was a tiefling paladin, encouraged to fall and then impregnated by Bane. Carrying the spawn of Bane inside her wound up warping her all the way to full demon. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2018 : 14:33:49
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Iyarch Teu-Xvim, first born of the godking Teu-Nabasu, Great Lord of Mourktar and first Iyarch of the Temple of the Black Lords Cloak.
Im just musing on an alternative origin for Iyachtu Xvim.
Iyachtu Xvim has appeared in Westgate and Thay which both have historic links with Unther. Im just looking at timings since i know Xvim appeared in Westgatr but i cant remember the year.
710 DR Year of the Toppled Throne
A gate to the Abyss opens above the palace of Westgate, and a large host of tiefling warriors flee through it, hotly pursued by a small company of tanarri. Much of the royal palace is destroyed in the resulting conflict, and King Thartryn Ilistar I perishes under mysterious circumstances during a fiery blaze. Although the fiends are eventually banished back to the Abyss and the gate closed, the bulk of the tiefling army survives the battle, in far better shape than the citys own forces. Within a fortnight, the leader of the tieflings, Iyachtu Xvim, seizes the throne of Westgate and the surviving scions of the royal house of Ilistar are driven into exile. Once the throne is his, the Fiend King imposes his draconian rule over the entire city, a reign of tyranny in keeping with his claim to be the Son of Bane.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2018 : 14:48:12
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| Also, I would think that the "Godson" of Bane would be threatened by a true "son" of bane. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2018 : 17:14:16
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So I have a new idea from all this: Baneseeds
So what If 'The Bane' is something some other Gods started - could be an archtype (ancient, multispheric deity), or it could be Asmodeus. It actually doesn't matter who started it. But start it they did, by putting a shard of themselves inside another being - a mortal - they were able to create a potential demigod (basically, it would be like one of those OE 'Manifestations', or even 'aspects'). But its almost like a genetic disease - it can be passed on. So once you create the first 'Baneson', that person can go on and create more. Evil Godhood starts to become something akin to a multispheric virus.
In fact, now that I am thinking on this, there is a TON of evidence that lots of gods do this - basically 'seed' (quite literally) themselves (and their pantheons) all over the multiverse. Could explain the horn... errr... fecundity... of the Olympians, amongst others. Having mortal mothers 'pop-out' minnie-me's. Female Gods would have it rougher... maybe... then again, probably not. A female goddess could take male form, impregnate a human female, and then have a female baby born to her. Lord knows the gods can switch gender (they do all the time in the myths... Loki's even into bestiality).
Great way to bypass Godwalls - have a mortal female brought before you in your realm, impregnate her, and then send her home. Weaponized sex. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2018 : 17:50:13
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Not canon at all:
I have Xvim's mother being a Queen of Ixinos named Iya who was taken by a follower of Bane.
Xvim later attempted to conquer Ixinos (as was his "right" he claimed) which failed; which led to his prestige among the pirates lessening and the loss of most of his own army and this was the reason he lost Westgate later.
Again, not Canon at all... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2018 : 21:10:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
So I have a new idea from all this: Baneseeds
So what If 'The Bane' is something some other Gods started - could be an archtype (ancient, multispheric deity), or it could be Asmodeus. It actually doesn't matter who started it. But start it they did, by putting a shard of themselves inside another being - a mortal - they were able to create a potential demigod (basically, it would be like one of those OE 'Manifestations', or even 'aspects'). But its almost like a genetic disease - it can be passed on. So once you create the first 'Baneson', that person can go on and create more. Evil Godhood starts to become something akin to a multispheric virus.
In fact, now that I am thinking on this, there is a TON of evidence that lots of gods do this - basically 'seed' (quite literally) themselves (and their pantheons) all over the multiverse. Could explain the horn... errr... fecundity... of the Olympians, amongst others. Having mortal mothers 'pop-out' minnie-me's. Female Gods would have it rougher... maybe... then again, probably not. A female goddess could take male form, impregnate a human female, and then have a female baby born to her. Lord knows the gods can switch gender (they do all the time in the myths... Loki's even into bestiality).
Great way to bypass Godwalls - have a mortal female brought before you in your realm, impregnate her, and then send her home. Weaponized sex.
-That's basically Aasimar/Tieflings, with a dash of Chosen |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2018 : 22:12:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Great way to bypass Godwalls - have a mortal female brought before you in your realm, impregnate her, and then send her home. Weaponized sex.
It's actually EXACTLY what the gods of Unther and Mulhorand did long term...their manifestations HAD to be the descendants of their first Avatars sent to Faerun right? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2018 : 02:41:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Great way to bypass Godwalls - have a mortal female brought before you in your realm, impregnate her, and then send her home. Weaponized sex.
It's actually EXACTLY what the gods of Unther and Mulhorand did long term...their manifestations HAD to be the descendants of their first Avatars sent to Faerun right?
No, their incarnations were born of the manifestations. The manifestations were some kind of god construct. Now whether this is a "godly creation via magic" or them possessing a priest/worshipper/child as if its an avatar like that used in the Time of Troubles, that's unknown. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2018 : 03:46:59
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I think the Manifestations of what I refer to as an 'Ubertar' - a self-aware, fully autonomous Avatar. Basically an aspect, but created whole-cloth, unlike Incarnations, which are also aspects, but require a mortal 'vessel'.
I think part of the reason why deities may want to do this is so that they become 'native Outsiders', and thus, can't be banished for any reason (a ton of different magics no longer affect you when you go 'native'). Also, all of the Incarnations would have been Pharonic (God) 'Seeds', so YEAH, exactly how I picture things working with Bane, Xvim, 'Core' Bane, grandbaby Bane, etc, etc. It also pretty-much sticks to Greek mythology canon - the child of a god is a demigod (which can then become more powerful and eventually be a full god). Basically, you gain the template 'God-Blooded', and are automatically an Exarch at age 13 (puberty - for whatever reasons, the 'laws of the universe' apply differently to children).
EDIT:
NOW, why don't gods run around scr... errr... 'having relations' with everything that moves? After all, it seems to be a VERY effective way to spread their religion. Its actually very simple, and very elegant, and comes to us straight out of mythology (ALL of them) - the children of gods eventually tire of 'serving' their parents, and rebel. The more of these mini-me's you create, the greater the risk you run of one of them turning around and killing you someday (because the easiest 'divine spark' to absorb, apparently, is a close relation).
Last thing you want (as a god) is one of these kids showing up at your door and wanting back child-support... or drag you onto the Maury show. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 10 Jan 2018 03:52:15 |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2018 : 12:09:11
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Why Greek mythology? The Norse, Babylonian, Sumerian, Chinese, Japanese, Vedic, Finnish and Celtic pantheons have been around for just as long as the Greeks, and all have their marks on the planes.
I mean, the Greeks are in a class all on their own, but 90% of the time it's because Zeus can't keep it in his pants and the only one to ascend was Heracles. The other divine-blooded kids had some quirks, but that was pretty much it. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 22:36:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
EDIT:
NOW, why don't gods run around scr... errr... 'having relations' with everything that moves? After all, it seems to be a VERY effective way to spread their religion. Its actually very simple, and very elegant, and comes to us straight out of mythology (ALL of them) - the children of gods eventually tire of 'serving' their parents, and rebel. The more of these mini-me's you create, the greater the risk you run of one of them turning around and killing you someday (because the easiest 'divine spark' to absorb, apparently, is a close relation).
Last thing you want (as a god) is one of these kids showing up at your door and wanting back child-support... or drag you onto the Maury show.
-Going by "D&D rules", it probably has an impact on their 'divine rank'. Even if a tiny, tiny, tiny, little, minuscule sliver of its divinity is in those kids (A) that's still a tiny, tiny, little, minuscule sliver of its divinity that is gone and. Sure, the benefits could outweigh that, as said divine progeny could organize his/her/its parent church, and empower the god that way, but that's just could. You know how kids are, you make a little godling out of a sliver of your divinity, and next thing you know, they're leading the church of your rival, being angsty rebels. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2018 : 16:49:59
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| Gods having children that are also gods, or are demi-gods is not unique to the Greeks. Its actually kind of ubiquitous |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2018 : 18:53:20
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Well, yeah, but in any discussion about 'gods' boinking mortals, the Greek pantheon always jumps to mind, first and foremost.
Thats what they get for having a horndog like Pan in their Pantheon. Hmmmmm.... Pan-theon... thats also a Greek word. Pan's peons?
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
My thought is that his mother was a tiefling paladin, encouraged to fall and then impregnated by Bane. Carrying the spawn of Bane inside her wound up warping her all the way to full demon.
Except, I think, all 'tieflings' are now devil-blooded (which is annoying, but it is what it is). Thus, I think the proper term for someone fiend-blooded and NOT a tiefling is Cambion... which was the original (1e) term anyway.
Cambion also at one point (2e? Late 1e?) meant the offspring of a Succubus, specifically, but not only do we have Alufiend for that now, but thanks to 4e we know that Succubi are their own type of fiend, and are neither devils or demons (although they side with both, as individuals).
As a side-note, while I was typing this, I couldn't help but recall that demons theselves were all turned into 'fallen (corrupted) elementals in 4e (which is actually one of the things I liked), so I think thats why they felt they needed to move the succubi out of the 'demon' category (that, and they were never a great fit - demons have more monstrous visages, usually). But here's a thought - what if Succubi were original noble elementals - ya know... GENIES. That might make some sense. The truly powerful among their kind would have become archfiends after being corrupted, but I think the more common Dgen may have become Succubi (which also includes the males - Incubi). That fixes any weirdness with making them elementals, originally.
And we all know 'Genie Babes' are HOT.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 13 Jan 2018 18:54:12 |
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the Grandson of Bane
