Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Forgotten Realms Journals
 General Forgotten Realms Chat
 The Orc World
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page | Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 6

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 12 Jan 2018 :  19:22:55  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
While Borka does seem to be the perfect fit for the planet Dalor envisions, it is sadly 'gone' now. There is no way its the Orcish homeworld, though, because the lore about it even states the Goblinoids there evolved without ever seeing other races, or even other orcs (from sace), until after the first disastrous meeting with Elves (and if you read that entry in the Greyspace source, you will once-again see how elves are the most violent, racist, xenophobic, disgustingly evil race in the universe... but I digress). That is the moment in time when they decided - AS A RACE -the destroying entire planets was 'okay', because it was the most 'expedient' way of eliminating a threat. Not too much different than how groundling Elves behave - just on a grander scale.

But Borka is destroyed now, and even before it was, its history clearly states that Spelljamming came to them late, after they were visited by other races, including other, spacefaring orcs. The only way you could possibly rectify that is to say that at one time Borka had a highly sophisticated culture that reached and spread through space, and then the homeworld culture itself fell (probably some virus the elves sent over {grumble grumble}). That would be a nifty way to turn Borka into the world Dalor envisions, except for the very major problem that its gone now.

I like Borka a lot - I wish it was in Realmspace. If they conjoined GH and FR (like I've always dreamed), they could rearrange the solar system and we could get some cool new toys (like the drow sage I use when I am writing for the Elven Netbook, and other things - he is from Kule).

And when I went looking for stuff about Borka on SJ sites, I found that FR has had a LOT more to do with SJ than I thought - A LOT more. The birth of Elminster is even in their chronology (all of which only contain SJ-relevant entries). Like the comet K'Thoutek that passes by Toril every 237 years and 'announces' the arrival a new, powerful entity into Realmspace (the last time it was the birth of The Simbul). And then there is the Rock of Bral, which was supposed to remain 'place anywhere', but then it got officially placed in Realmspace.

I really hate the entry about the Tears of Selūne only appearing about a thousand years ago - it screws-up quite a lot of my theories. Did anyone ever ask Ed about it? It doesn't really make much sense.

EDIT: Somewhat more on-topic
You could even have continents that have similar cultures to RW, but with orcs/goblinoids, like an OA region.

Oriental Orc (from Eberron)

There's also the OA Goblin Rat.

Kilmoulis are like a cross between a goblin and a brownie.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 12 Jan 2018 19:27:33
Go to Top of Page

Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3593 Posts

Posted - 12 Jan 2018 :  22:21:59  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So, the first step of making Ekur as it is in the Current Year:

Orcworld of Ekur in color.

Orcworld of Ekur in black and white.

That is the preliminary globe view, and I've started on a mercator projection as well as a hex map.

I got so interested in this I've temporarily put other projects on hold and even shifted my "art team" to making orc art.

Looks like it is going to be pretty fun to work on.

AD&D for me!
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
6988 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2018 :  00:43:18  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Where are the islands? This looks like one contiguous land mass with large lakes.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3593 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2018 :  02:31:54  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Where are the islands? This looks like one contiguous land mass with large lakes.



Using a Transverse Mercator Map at the 146 degree you get:

Red Circles are where the Islands are.

So, there are LOTS of islands. Remember too, this is a Global Picture and not the close up. Many smaller islands are literally single pixels at this scale.

AD&D for me!
Go to Top of Page

Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3593 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2018 :  02:37:11  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ekur Today.

Looking back in time on Ekur:

Ekur at the time of the Orcgate Wars.

Ekur in an "Elder Age" when orcs first came to the world.

EDIT: for comparison, the different "Ages" of Ekur are:

A Globe of Ekur in an "Elder Age" when orcs first came to the world.

A Globe of Ekur around the time of the Orcgate Wars.

Ekur Today after the Water War Portals have all been destroyed.

AD&D for me!

Edited by - Dalor Darden on 13 Jan 2018 02:52:53
Go to Top of Page

Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3593 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2018 :  03:00:12  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I plan to use these maps to determine where the more ancient civilizations stood...and where their ruins are today.

Many of the Old Orc Empires that have fallen, their most powerful cities probably sit now far away from water...and so have fallen into ruin usually. Some will still be near water (usually along rivers)...but the most ancient ruins of races before the orcs will be in places where riverbeds are dry because it never rains.

I've started developing the cultural trait of Orc Adventurers...it is coming along pretty nicely.

Orcs don't adventure for JUST treasure, but for glory, powerful magic AND treasure to become powerful orcs. Actually, Orc Adventurers make WAY more sense than your typical "Good" adventurers.

AD&D for me!

Edited by - Dalor Darden on 13 Jan 2018 03:00:40
Go to Top of Page

TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1621 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2018 :  06:08:57  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden


What makes you think it is Borka?

It not necessarily is Borka, but seems best fit of the known worlds. Also, why not.
Borka used to be full of orcs (and goblinoids in general).
And there's at least one precedent for gates to Greyspace: Sschindylryn - Erelhei-Cinlu, used by the drow.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch

Edited by - TBeholder on 13 Jan 2018 15:44:58
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
6988 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2018 :  14:52:52  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Where are the islands? This looks like one contiguous land mass with large lakes.



Using a Transverse Mercator Map at the 146 degree you get:

Red Circles are where the Islands are.

So, there are LOTS of islands. Remember too, this is a Global Picture and not the close up. Many smaller islands are literally single pixels at this scale.



Ok, that's a lot more clear. It was hard to see on the other with it spinning.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
6988 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2018 :  15:02:14  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

Ekur Today.

Looking back in time on Ekur:

Ekur at the time of the Orcgate Wars.

Ekur in an "Elder Age" when orcs first came to the world.

EDIT: for comparison, the different "Ages" of Ekur are:

A Globe of Ekur in an "Elder Age" when orcs first came to the world.

A Globe of Ekur around the time of the Orcgate Wars.

Ekur Today after the Water War Portals have all been destroyed.



Oh, wow, that water war was serious. It might be interesting if you involve earth elementals in with that in some form. For instance, we know that in the FR Cosmology, Luthic and Grumbar were involved in a romance behind Gruumsh's back. Just a thought, not sure if it works.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3593 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2018 :  21:21:39  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

Ekur Today.

Looking back in time on Ekur:

Ekur at the time of the Orcgate Wars.

Ekur in an "Elder Age" when orcs first came to the world.

EDIT: for comparison, the different "Ages" of Ekur are:

A Globe of Ekur in an "Elder Age" when orcs first came to the world.

A Globe of Ekur around the time of the Orcgate Wars.

Ekur Today after the Water War Portals have all been destroyed.



Oh, wow, that water war was serious. It might be interesting if you involve earth elementals in with that in some form. For instance, we know that in the FR Cosmology, Luthic and Grumbar were involved in a romance behind Gruumsh's back. Just a thought, not sure if it works.



Originally the surface of Ekur was 75% water. By the time the Water Wars were finished, the surface area was approaching the 46% coverage that was in existence when the Orcgate War started. It wasn't until much later that the last portals became either destroyed or simply ineffective simply because the portals were no longer under water. Today the surface of Ekur is only about 28% water.

AD&D for me!
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2018 :  00:16:27  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I feel like I missed an important point along the way - were the gates underwater, and the reason why the water levels dropped was because it went through the gates? They were only functional while submerged?

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 14 Jan 2018 00:17:15
Go to Top of Page

Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3593 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2018 :  02:09:02  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I feel like I missed an important point along the way - were the gates underwater, and the reason why the water levels dropped was because it went through the gates? They were only functional while submerged?



There were portals used by the Orcs (and maybe another race before) to drop the water level so that the islands of their foes could be laid waste.

Many were found and destroyed...but some were left that simply don't "do their job" now because they are no longer submerged due to the dropping of the water levels.

AD&D for me!
Go to Top of Page

sfdragon
Great Reader

2190 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2018 :  02:27:11  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
so let me see. the scro want to kill the elves because their forebears the Orcs suffered heavy losses during the unhuman wars?

and the orcs believed to survive they must expand and conquer?

maybe the orcs and thus the scro too should learn how to manage resources and not go out for conquer ..oh well.

btw... what elf subraces are in starjammer

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234
Go to Top of Page

TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1621 Posts

Posted - 15 Jan 2018 :  19:31:05  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon

so let me see. the scro want to kill the elves because their forebears the Orcs suffered heavy losses during the unhuman wars?

Losses as such are not very important for the orcs.
Ultimate defeat, and also elves were jerks about it (even by the orc standards).
quote:
and the orcs believed to survive they must expand and conquer?

More of the traditional enmity. Also, in wildspace goblinoids mostly act as disorganised random raiders, while elves tend toward Children of Gods rightful owners of the Universe control freaks.
So of course they clashed here and there, and then the elves (after drooling deliberating for a few centuries) started a total war.
quote:
maybe the orcs and thus the scro too should learn how to manage resources and not go out for conquer ..oh well.

They can when they really want to (e.g. Oscray).

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
Go to Top of Page

Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3593 Posts

Posted - 15 Jan 2018 :  19:50:08  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So the Water Portals:

They would have been created in long ages past by the Empire of Fire.

The Salamen have little need for water...and their foes in the most ancient times would have been perhaps races that DID need lots of water (Bullywugs and etc.).

So the portals used in the Water Wars were probably created long before the orcs came to the world...and in fact the orcs were probably brought to the world by the water loving Reptoids to make war against the Salamen in the hot/dry climate that the other races couldn't live in.

The Firenewts/Salamen were then the creators of the Water Portals originally under the direction of someone capable of directing their creation.

AD&D for me!
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
6988 Posts

Posted - 15 Jan 2018 :  22:27:00  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That makes sense. So, the "fire races" were the ones to destroy the water, not necessarily the orcs. So, firenewts and flame salamanders.... might be interesting to include Ibrandlin amongst those numbers with maybe Ibrandul having been imported from here.

In looking up fire monsters, I also just came across something that might be interesting. There's a creature in the 3.5 Monster Manual 3 called the Phoelarch. This creature is a humanoid with feathers, but it looks like an elf kind of with feathers.... somewhat like native american'ish with golden or rusty colored skin and apparently tattoos. When they die, they explode with fire and leave behind an egg that hatches into a phoenix like bird (a Phoera). When the Phoera dies, it explodes and leaves behind an egg that creates a Phoelarch. Anyway, harkening back to something I was talking about the other day.... I'm betting orcs would love eating eggs.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 15 Jan 2018 :  22:53:52  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Its all fun & games until the Fire Nation shows up.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

Go to Top of Page

Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6600 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2018 :  01:44:04  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Orcs can survive in desert wastelands, apparently better than humans. But it seems to me that most orcs tend to dwell in places where water is at least somewhat abundant, arctic and subarctic and temperate and mountainous and underground sorts of places. They do need fairly copious water for their ironmongery. Although I suppose an orc can survive (at least for a while) on water the civilized races would consider too unpalatable or too polluted for consumption.

[/Ayrik]
Go to Top of Page

Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3593 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2018 :  03:39:38  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

Orcs can survive in desert wastelands, apparently better than humans. But it seems to me that most orcs tend to dwell in places where water is at least somewhat abundant, arctic and subarctic and temperate and mountainous and underground sorts of places. They do need fairly copious water for their ironmongery. Although I suppose an orc can survive (at least for a while) on water the civilized races would consider too unpalatable or too polluted for consumption.



I envisioned the orcs being brought to Ekur by water-dwelling sauroids because they couldn't sustain campaigns against the Firenewts in the inhospitable environments the fire-lovers dwell in.

Once the Firenewts were defeated (though not destroyed) the orcs turned on their "benefactors" and also crushed them.

That being the long story made very short...

AD&D for me!
Go to Top of Page

sfdragon
Great Reader

2190 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2018 :  09:41:58  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
to tell more how they were being jerks tbeholder.

dont own that book and no real interest in getting it..

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234
Go to Top of Page

Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3593 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2018 :  23:18:53  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So I've made a map for the Orc-World of Ekur.

I've decided on a change of scale (pulling back from the world-spanning idea to focus on a smaller area) and with that the map I'm working with right now is far smaller in scope.

As you can see the area is still extensive.

Naming Orc locations is pretty fun...but some of them will likely be changed as I go along.

AD&D for me!
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
6988 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2018 :  23:55:49  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

So I've made a map for the Orc-World of Ekur.

I've decided on a change of scale (pulling back from the world-spanning idea to focus on a smaller area) and with that the map I'm working with right now is far smaller in scope.

As you can see the area is still extensive.

Naming Orc locations is pretty fun...but some of them will likely be changed as I go along.



Lol, you have two Rok's... one should be New Rok.... or the other should be Old-Style Rok. Oh, and next to one of the Rok's should be Roal.

Also, what do the elves name the islands.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 18 Jan 2018 23:57:00
Go to Top of Page

Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3593 Posts

Posted - 19 Jan 2018 :  01:13:23  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

So I've made a map for the Orc-World of Ekur.

I've decided on a change of scale (pulling back from the world-spanning idea to focus on a smaller area) and with that the map I'm working with right now is far smaller in scope.

As you can see the area is still extensive.

Naming Orc locations is pretty fun...but some of them will likely be changed as I go along.



Lol, you have two Rok's... one should be New Rok.... or the other should be Old-Style Rok. Oh, and next to one of the Rok's should be Roal.

Also, what do the elves name the islands.



In Orc/Black Speech "Rrok" means "Hold"...

Fha Jatagan Rrok = Great Scimitar Hold

Gijak Krahaun Rrok = Blood Coast Hold

The "Elf" land is "Ish" but they are not normal "Elves" at all...more on that later.

AD&D for me!
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 20 Jan 2018 :  21:35:42  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I didn't want to clog-up your other orc thread (the one with the alcohol), and this would be better-suited here anyway.

I think all Orcs should 'live' at double the human rate. That mean not only will an 8-year-old orc look like a 16-year-old (to a human), but also the pregnancies should reflect this - just 4½ months. This means the average adult orc should have only half the maturity of a human appearing around the same age (which makes a LOT of sense, when you think about it). It also means that 30 year old orc is VERY old by orc standards - like a sixty year old to humans (and most would not live that long - maybe some chiefs and shaman).

Furthermore, it means an orc of only 6 years of actual age will start having 'adult responsibilities' (training to be a warrior, etc), because they would be about the size of a human 12 year old.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31058 Posts

Posted - 20 Jan 2018 :  22:56:35  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I didn't want to clog-up your other orc thread (the one with the alcohol), and this would be better-suited here anyway.

I think all Orcs should 'live' at double the human rate. That mean not only will an 8-year-old orc look like a 16-year-old (to a human), but also the pregnancies should reflect this - just 4½ months. This means the average adult orc should have only half the maturity of a human appearing around the same age (which makes a LOT of sense, when you think about it). It also means that 30 year old orc is VERY old by orc standards - like a sixty year old to humans (and most would not live that long - maybe some chiefs and shaman).

Furthermore, it means an orc of only 6 years of actual age will start having 'adult responsibilities' (training to be a warrior, etc), because they would be about the size of a human 12 year old.



I'm not sure I like this idea... But I'm not aware of any particular reason it doesn't work.

I'm not up on 5E or half-orcs, in general -- how does their lifespan compare to humans?

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 6 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2018 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000