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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 03:49:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I'm not a big fan of them having turned Kobolds into reptiles - I preferred them being dog-like goblins back in the day (closer to folklore - really they were gnomes/dwarves). However, at this point, its simpler just to 'go with the flow' then try to correct stuff that's been in place nearly 20 years now.
Of course, you could always say they were a gnome-like goblinoid that got a does of 'draconic' somewhere along the way (which blends the old lore into the new/3e stuff).
Nomadic Orcs.
I initially didn't like the idea, but they really ran with it in 3E, building on it a lot and turning the kobolds into something interesting, instead of just short mobs. That's what sold me on the change.
It may not adhere to folklore too closely, but D&D has played fast and loose with folklore for years... This is a game where some iconic monsters are based on cheap plastic toys, and where the Gorgons of Greek mythology somehow became mechanical bulls. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 03:51:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
New Detail:
The Orcworld of Ekur will not be a planet; but a moon.
Circling a gigantic gas giant at the closest edge of the Goldilocks Zone, the world of Ekur will be one of the moons of "Gruumsh's Eye" which is a massive gas giant with a titanic red storm swirling on the surface.
Will both explain why Ekur is so hot and why it has so much volcanic activity...gravitational pull and all.
Originally being a heavily watered world it was a volcanic jungle world where Sauroids lived for ages. Its seas also held intelligent life.
When the Sauroids made the mistake of bringing orcs to Ekur, it led to their downfall.
More to come...
EDIT: I needed a reason why these orcs were so much more religious than others...well, a huge Ball in the Sky that looks like your God's Eye could well do the trick!
I like this idea.  |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 03:54:44
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
So, I was just looking through all the races that I listed or that I see listed:
orcs,ogres, giants, elves, orogs, tanarukk - live birth
lizard folk, firenewts, dragonborn, dragonkin, kobold, crocodilians, crabmen, tortles, aarakocra, vulchlings, grippli, yuan-ti - eggs
It made me think that these brutish mammalian humanoids (i.e. orc and ogre kin) might be known for taking eggs and eating them. There might be some kind of "bad name" related to egg eaters or some such.
Well, orcs, ogres, orogs, giants and etc are known to eat just about ANYTHING...so a raid by orcs on a Lizardman Lair to steal eggs and take the meat of fallen foes wouldn't be uncommon for sure.
Kobold eggs are probably a delicacy to be sure  |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 04:04:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
New Detail:
The Orcworld of Ekur will not be a planet; but a moon.
Circling a gigantic gas giant at the closest edge of the Goldilocks Zone, the world of Ekur will be one of the moons of "Gruumsh's Eye" which is a massive gas giant with a titanic red storm swirling on the surface.
Will both explain why Ekur is so hot and why it has so much volcanic activity...gravitational pull and all.
Originally being a heavily watered world it was a volcanic jungle world where Sauroids lived for ages. Its seas also held intelligent life.
When the Sauroids made the mistake of bringing orcs to Ekur, it led to their downfall.
More to come...
EDIT: I needed a reason why these orcs were so much more religious than others...well, a huge Ball in the Sky that looks like your God's Eye could well do the trick!
I like this idea.
As Ekur turns and its dark side faces "Gruumsh's Eye" the shadow of the moon Ekur would cast its shadow into the center of the Red Storm...making it truly look like an eye. I haven't figured out the rotation of the planet vs. the rotation of the moon both around the planet and its own day/night cycle to see how often this "Grand Conjunction" would take place yet.
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Storyteller Hero
Learned Scribe
USA
329 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 05:12:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Obould's mama was brought to the moon to be sold as slavestock when some Scro visited.... then someone started playing "Let's Get it On" by Marvin Gaye.... afterward she got mouthy and the spelljammer skimmed the top of the spine of the world just long enough to boot her out (literally he used his boot to kick her butt out).... and thus Obould was always told by his Mama that he was born as a result of a "booty call".... it's true... I read it somewhere... I think it was on some cave wall....
Oh, and then those scro happened across an illithid vessel who boarded them and ate their brains.
I'd be tempted to say that Obould was full-on scro, on a mission to cause as much trouble for elves on the ground as he could, as well as lead orcs down a more scro-like path.
Sure, it's not canon... But scro Obould raising a kingdom to civilize orcs makes a hell of a lot more sense than orc Obould raising a kingdom that treats peacefully with its neighbors on behalf of a god of conquest.
Peace is not necessarily unrelated to the cause of conquest. Taking time to regroup and rebuild forces is a big part of the long game of war.
Gruumsh does have a lieutenant named Ilneval (orc god of war) who is a thinker and strategist - Ilneval's dogma includes "Train hard and think craftily in preparations for war, for all life is an endless battle." so it may not be too strange for an orc leader to sue for peace (in order to ensure future victories for orckind).
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 07:42:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I'm going to be compiling a list of information (open to discussion of course...) about the world the Gray Orcs came from.
It looks like ALL orcs (edit: of Faerun...not all the multi-verse) can come from this world according to what I've found so far (as in there may be all sorts there and not just Gray Orcs).
[...]
If the Gray Orcs came from their world in –1076 DR; what might their world be like at 2,500+ years later?
This may be Borka. In which case it's now a spherical asteroid cluster with common atmosphere (from 201 CY, or 983 DR, according to this timeline). |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 10:10:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Storyteller Hero
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Obould's mama was brought to the moon to be sold as slavestock when some Scro visited.... then someone started playing "Let's Get it On" by Marvin Gaye.... afterward she got mouthy and the spelljammer skimmed the top of the spine of the world just long enough to boot her out (literally he used his boot to kick her butt out).... and thus Obould was always told by his Mama that he was born as a result of a "booty call".... it's true... I read it somewhere... I think it was on some cave wall....
Oh, and then those scro happened across an illithid vessel who boarded them and ate their brains.
I'd be tempted to say that Obould was full-on scro, on a mission to cause as much trouble for elves on the ground as he could, as well as lead orcs down a more scro-like path.
Sure, it's not canon... But scro Obould raising a kingdom to civilize orcs makes a hell of a lot more sense than orc Obould raising a kingdom that treats peacefully with its neighbors on behalf of a god of conquest.
Peace is not necessarily unrelated to the cause of conquest. Taking time to regroup and rebuild forces is a big part of the long game of war.
Gruumsh does have a lieutenant named Ilneval (orc god of war) who is a thinker and strategist - Ilneval's dogma includes "Train hard and think craftily in preparations for war, for all life is an endless battle." so it may not be too strange for an orc leader to sue for peace (in order to ensure future victories for orckind).
No, but putting yourself in the middle of potential enemies, suing for peace, and then not attacking them for generations is not a conquest thing. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 15:28:34
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I'm going to be compiling a list of information (open to discussion of course...) about the world the Gray Orcs came from.
It looks like ALL orcs (edit: of Faerun...not all the multi-verse) can come from this world according to what I've found so far (as in there may be all sorts there and not just Gray Orcs).
[...]
If the Gray Orcs came from their world in –1076 DR; what might their world be like at 2,500+ years later?
This may be Borka. In which case it's now a spherical asteroid cluster with common atmosphere (from 201 CY, or 983 DR, according to this timeline).
What makes you think it is Borka? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 18:12:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I'm going to be compiling a list of information (open to discussion of course...) about the world the Gray Orcs came from.
It looks like ALL orcs (edit: of Faerun...not all the multi-verse) can come from this world according to what I've found so far (as in there may be all sorts there and not just Gray Orcs).
[...]
If the Gray Orcs came from their world in –1076 DR; what might their world be like at 2,500+ years later?
This may be Borka. In which case it's now a spherical asteroid cluster with common atmosphere (from 201 CY, or 983 DR, according to this timeline).
What makes you think it is Borka?
I'd guess it had something to do with the elves destroying it. It was an orc world, destroyed by the Greyspace branch of the Elven Imperial Navy, through unknown magics, during the first Unhuman War. See the Greyspace Spelljammer supplement for more info. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 12 Jan 2018 18:13:38 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 18:22:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'd guess it had something to do with the elves destroying it. It was an orc world, destroyed by the Greyspace branch of the Elven Imperial Navy, through unknown magics, during the first Unhuman War. See the Greyspace Spelljammer supplement for more info.
I remember reading about it...I was just asking what connection he may have made that I hadn't thought about.
Borka was a world that belonged to Spelljamming critters...so I was curious about why they thought it was the same world the Gray Orcs came from. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 19:22:55
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While Borka does seem to be the perfect fit for the planet Dalor envisions, it is sadly 'gone' now. There is no way its the Orcish homeworld, though, because the lore about it even states the Goblinoids there evolved without ever seeing other races, or even other orcs (from sace), until after the first disastrous meeting with Elves (and if you read that entry in the Greyspace source, you will once-again see how elves are the most violent, racist, xenophobic, disgustingly evil race in the universe... but I digress). That is the moment in time when they decided - AS A RACE -the destroying entire planets was 'okay', because it was the most 'expedient' way of eliminating a threat. Not too much different than how groundling Elves behave - just on a grander scale.
But Borka is destroyed now, and even before it was, its history clearly states that Spelljamming came to them late, after they were visited by other races, including other, spacefaring orcs. The only way you could possibly rectify that is to say that at one time Borka had a highly sophisticated culture that reached and spread through space, and then the homeworld culture itself fell (probably some virus the elves sent over {grumble grumble}). That would be a nifty way to turn Borka into the world Dalor envisions, except for the very major problem that its gone now.
I like Borka a lot - I wish it was in Realmspace. If they conjoined GH and FR (like I've always dreamed), they could rearrange the solar system and we could get some cool new toys (like the drow sage I use when I am writing for the Elven Netbook, and other things - he is from Kule).
And when I went looking for stuff about Borka on SJ sites, I found that FR has had a LOT more to do with SJ than I thought - A LOT more. The birth of Elminster is even in their chronology (all of which only contain SJ-relevant entries). Like the comet K'Thoutek that passes by Toril every 237 years and 'announces' the arrival a new, powerful entity into Realmspace (the last time it was the birth of The Simbul). And then there is the Rock of Bral, which was supposed to remain 'place anywhere', but then it got officially placed in Realmspace.
I really hate the entry about the Tears of Selûne only appearing about a thousand years ago - it screws-up quite a lot of my theories. Did anyone ever ask Ed about it? It doesn't really make much sense.
EDIT: Somewhat more on-topic
You could even have continents that have similar cultures to RW, but with orcs/goblinoids, like an OA region.
Oriental Orc (from Eberron)
There's also the OA Goblin Rat.
Kilmoulis are like a cross between a goblin and a brownie. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 12 Jan 2018 19:27:33 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 22:21:59
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So, the first step of making Ekur as it is in the Current Year:
Orcworld of Ekur in color.
Orcworld of Ekur in black and white.
That is the preliminary globe view, and I've started on a mercator projection as well as a hex map.
I got so interested in this I've temporarily put other projects on hold and even shifted my "art team" to making orc art.
Looks like it is going to be pretty fun to work on. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2018 : 00:43:18
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| Where are the islands? This looks like one contiguous land mass with large lakes. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2018 : 02:31:54
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Where are the islands? This looks like one contiguous land mass with large lakes.
Using a Transverse Mercator Map at the 146 degree you get:
Red Circles are where the Islands are.
So, there are LOTS of islands. Remember too, this is a Global Picture and not the close up. Many smaller islands are literally single pixels at this scale. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2018 : 03:00:12
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I plan to use these maps to determine where the more ancient civilizations stood...and where their ruins are today.
Many of the Old Orc Empires that have fallen, their most powerful cities probably sit now far away from water...and so have fallen into ruin usually. Some will still be near water (usually along rivers)...but the most ancient ruins of races before the orcs will be in places where riverbeds are dry because it never rains.
I've started developing the cultural trait of Orc Adventurers...it is coming along pretty nicely.
Orcs don't adventure for JUST treasure, but for glory, powerful magic AND treasure to become powerful orcs. Actually, Orc Adventurers make WAY more sense than your typical "Good" adventurers. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
Edited by - Dalor Darden on 13 Jan 2018 03:00:40 |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2018 : 06:08:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
What makes you think it is Borka?
It not necessarily is Borka, but seems best fit of the known worlds. Also, why not.
Borka used to be full of orcs (and goblinoids in general).
And there's at least one precedent for gates to Greyspace: Sschindylryn - Erelhei-Cinlu, used by the drow. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
Edited by - TBeholder on 13 Jan 2018 15:44:58 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2018 : 14:52:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Where are the islands? This looks like one contiguous land mass with large lakes.
Using a Transverse Mercator Map at the 146 degree you get:
Red Circles are where the Islands are.
So, there are LOTS of islands. Remember too, this is a Global Picture and not the close up. Many smaller islands are literally single pixels at this scale.
Ok, that's a lot more clear. It was hard to see on the other with it spinning. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2018 : 00:16:27
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I feel like I missed an important point along the way - were the gates underwater, and the reason why the water levels dropped was because it went through the gates? They were only functional while submerged?  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 14 Jan 2018 00:17:15 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2018 : 02:09:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I feel like I missed an important point along the way - were the gates underwater, and the reason why the water levels dropped was because it went through the gates? They were only functional while submerged?
There were portals used by the Orcs (and maybe another race before) to drop the water level so that the islands of their foes could be laid waste.
Many were found and destroyed...but some were left that simply don't "do their job" now because they are no longer submerged due to the dropping of the water levels. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2018 : 19:31:05
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
so let me see. the scro want to kill the elves because their forebears the Orcs suffered heavy losses during the unhuman wars?
Losses as such are not very important for the orcs.
Ultimate defeat, and also elves were jerks about it (even by the orc standards). 
quote:
and the orcs believed to survive they must expand and conquer?
More of the traditional enmity. Also, in wildspace goblinoids mostly act as disorganised random raiders, while elves tend toward Children of Gods rightful owners of the Universe control freaks.
So of course they clashed here and there, and then the elves (after drooling deliberating for a few centuries) started a total war.
quote:
maybe the orcs and thus the scro too should learn how to manage resources and not go out for conquer ..oh well.
They can when they really want to (e.g. Oscray). |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2018 : 19:50:08
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So the Water Portals:
They would have been created in long ages past by the Empire of Fire.
The Salamen have little need for water...and their foes in the most ancient times would have been perhaps races that DID need lots of water (Bullywugs and etc.).
So the portals used in the Water Wars were probably created long before the orcs came to the world...and in fact the orcs were probably brought to the world by the water loving Reptoids to make war against the Salamen in the hot/dry climate that the other races couldn't live in.
The Firenewts/Salamen were then the creators of the Water Portals originally under the direction of someone capable of directing their creation. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2018 : 22:27:00
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That makes sense. So, the "fire races" were the ones to destroy the water, not necessarily the orcs. So, firenewts and flame salamanders.... might be interesting to include Ibrandlin amongst those numbers with maybe Ibrandul having been imported from here.
In looking up fire monsters, I also just came across something that might be interesting. There's a creature in the 3.5 Monster Manual 3 called the Phoelarch. This creature is a humanoid with feathers, but it looks like an elf kind of with feathers.... somewhat like native american'ish with golden or rusty colored skin and apparently tattoos. When they die, they explode with fire and leave behind an egg that hatches into a phoenix like bird (a Phoera). When the Phoera dies, it explodes and leaves behind an egg that creates a Phoelarch. Anyway, harkening back to something I was talking about the other day.... I'm betting orcs would love eating eggs. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2018 : 22:53:52
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| Its all fun & games until the Fire Nation shows up. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2018 : 01:44:04
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| Orcs can survive in desert wastelands, apparently better than humans. But it seems to me that most orcs tend to dwell in places where water is at least somewhat abundant, arctic and subarctic and temperate and mountainous and underground sorts of places. They do need fairly copious water for their ironmongery. Although I suppose an orc can survive (at least for a while) on water the civilized races would consider too unpalatable or too polluted for consumption. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2018 : 03:39:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Orcs can survive in desert wastelands, apparently better than humans. But it seems to me that most orcs tend to dwell in places where water is at least somewhat abundant, arctic and subarctic and temperate and mountainous and underground sorts of places. They do need fairly copious water for their ironmongery. Although I suppose an orc can survive (at least for a while) on water the civilized races would consider too unpalatable or too polluted for consumption.
I envisioned the orcs being brought to Ekur by water-dwelling sauroids because they couldn't sustain campaigns against the Firenewts in the inhospitable environments the fire-lovers dwell in.
Once the Firenewts were defeated (though not destroyed) the orcs turned on their "benefactors" and also crushed them.
That being the long story made very short... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2018 : 23:18:53
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So I've made a map for the Orc-World of Ekur.
I've decided on a change of scale (pulling back from the world-spanning idea to focus on a smaller area) and with that the map I'm working with right now is far smaller in scope.
As you can see the area is still extensive.
Naming Orc locations is pretty fun...but some of them will likely be changed as I go along. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2018 : 23:55:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
So I've made a map for the Orc-World of Ekur.
I've decided on a change of scale (pulling back from the world-spanning idea to focus on a smaller area) and with that the map I'm working with right now is far smaller in scope.
As you can see the area is still extensive.
Naming Orc locations is pretty fun...but some of them will likely be changed as I go along.
Lol, you have two Rok's... one should be New Rok.... or the other should be Old-Style Rok. Oh, and next to one of the Rok's should be Roal.
Also, what do the elves name the islands. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 18 Jan 2018 23:57:00 |
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The Orc World
