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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
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Posted - 09 Jan 2018 :  17:03:30  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The most important resource to the Scro are 'bodies' - more orcs they can use as fodder. You wouldn't have to conquer a world to get what you want.

And it doesn't have to be detrimental to Faerūn/Toril either - Hordes form-up all the time. What if their purpose is to redirect the hordes? Every time one starts to form, they're like, "C'mon guys! I know where there are TONS of elves we can slaughter! lets go!"

You'd actually be able to get human and other non-elven communities to help with your efforts. "Can you guys spare some supplies? We are trying to move a million orcs - who were going to head in your direction - off-planet."

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
31515 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2018 :  21:48:48  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

OK

The Scro would have no reason to use Faerun at all. They were just being nice to the humanoids and giving them weapons...



I didn't say that. I said they wouldn't have a need to use it as a base, and that it would be more costly than it was worth.

Establishing a base and riling up the natives are two very, very different things.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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31515 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2018 :  21:52:24  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

The most important resource to the Scro are 'bodies' - more orcs they can use as fodder. You wouldn't have to conquer a world to get what you want.

And it doesn't have to be detrimental to Faerūn/Toril either - Hordes form-up all the time. What if their purpose is to redirect the hordes? Every time one starts to form, they're like, "C'mon guys! I know where there are TONS of elves we can slaughter! lets go!"

You'd actually be able to get human and other non-elven communities to help with your efforts. "Can you guys spare some supplies? We are trying to move a million orcs - who were going to head in your direction - off-planet."



There's still the issue of transport, and the fact that those orcs are only going to be useful against groundling elves.

A witchlight marauder -- which they did try to get, in canon -- would be far more effective for the ground battles.

But again, the scro are a space-borne force, and their primary focus is space-borne elves. Groundling orcs are not going to be useful, there.

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Dalor Darden
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3594 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2018 :  22:03:55  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

OK

The Scro would have no reason to use Faerun at all. They were just being nice to the humanoids and giving them weapons...



I didn't say that. I said they wouldn't have a need to use it as a base, and that it would be more costly than it was worth.

Establishing a base and riling up the natives are two very, very different things.




I don't feel you are thinking about the implications of what "riling up the natives" would actually accomplish for the Scro.

For example: the Netherese were HORRID to everyone they met and amassed such a horrible reputation that they were chased out of "space" for their deeds. They were hated by EVERYONE for their actions...and they only held a relatively small area of Faerun as their "base" to operate from.

Now imagine an orc realm in Faerun...even much larger than Many Arrows. Or hell...actually Many Arrows! The Scro, having a central "supply" of ready and willing orcs to kill elves, would have minimal input and maximum benefit from such a situation.

"You boys want to kill elves?"

"YAAAAAAA!!!"

"Just board here!"

That simply for the benefit of opening a portal...I'd say that would be a huge benefit for them.

If the Orc World the Orcs that invaded Faerun came from was still inhabited by hordes of orcs, simply opening the portal would be all it takes for them to pour through and cause havoc at least. If the Scro could open the Portal in The North and have them pour out, there are several realms that could be imperiled.

This is only a side effect of the desires *I* would be looking for as a Scro Leader. The primary result would be a ready force of at least "mercenary" reserves to be used in battle. Cramming a Spelljammer full of orcs as the first wave against enemy ships in boarding actions would be a HUGE benefit...even if the idiots had no idea how to operate in space they would draw fire at the least.

Standard Orc tactics might suck...but when directed by able leaders who use better tactics they can be a focused horde...as Obould proved in his forging of Many Arrows.

If we go by the premise that Obould IS a Scro...then what I'm saying is obvious: the Scro sent agents to Faerun to forge an Orcish Realm they could draw soldiers from for the Second Unhuman War. Many Arrows having "stabilized" into a realm of relative peace only means that the orcs are being taken into Realmspace by Scro to be used elsewhere maybe?

The line of Orc Kings are more than likely the more intelligent Scro perhaps? Keeping the realm stable as an unwitting "vassal state" of the Scro efforts to defeat the IEN...

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 09 Jan 2018 :  22:38:54  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And you're not going with what I'm saying: the scro are primarily concerned with space-borne elves. Not elves on the ground -- those are a secondary concern. Riling up the groundling orcs helps keep groundling elves focused on the ground, but it doesn't do a damn thing for fighting the elves already in space.

The scro already have their warships, and they're already crewed with scro marines and soldiers that know exactly what to do, when and how to do it, and that won't be in the way before they're needed.

The scro have rejected just about everything about orcish culture. They'd rather have the honor of killing elves themselves rather than rely on the very orcs they have risen above.

Hell, according to the Complete Spacefarer's Handbook, the scro want to be the only race in space -- they don't even want orcs there.

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Dalor Darden
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USA
3594 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2018 :  22:48:21  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

And you're not going with what I'm saying: the scro are primarily concerned with space-borne elves. Not elves on the ground -- those are a secondary concern. Riling up the groundling orcs helps keep groundling elves focused on the ground, but it doesn't do a damn thing for fighting the elves already in space.

The scro already have their warships, and they're already crewed with scro marines and soldiers that know exactly what to do, when and how to do it, and that won't be in the way before they're needed.

The scro have rejected just about everything about orcish culture. They'd rather have the honor of killing elves themselves rather than rely on the very orcs they have risen above.

Hell, according to the Complete Spacefarer's Handbook, the scro want to be the only race in space -- they don't even want orcs there.




Wooly, here is what I have found regarding the 2nd Unhuman War instigated by the Scro:

quote:
The scro Tarantula Fleet, under the command of Admiral Halker and General Kobas Hamarka Vorr invades and conquers the elven world of Spiral. The scro employed large numbers of goblins and orcs in addition to their scro and ogre marines, but the elves fought back fiercely, even employing zwarths. The scro suffered heavy losses but captured all the elven cities. Despite this, the elven, dwarven, and human natives of Spiral continued to resist the Scro, fighting a guerilla war from the mountains and deep forests of the planet.
{The Maelstrom's Eye, pp 16-29}
[SJ] General Grimnosh of the scro launches an audacious campaign in Winterspace. Commanding the dinotherium ELFBANE, the Sky Shark battalion of scro marines, and a squadron of four bionoid shrikeships Grimnosh's official orders are to disrupt IEN traffic in the Flow outside Winterspace. But Grimnosh and the instectare K'tide plot instead to arm the humanoids of Armistice with spelljamming vessels and destroy the elven presence on Radole within Winterspace before moving on to Realmspace.


quote:
[SJ] The Cloak of the First Pilot Campaign. The scro Tarantula Fleet is approached by the undead Neogi mage Skarkesh, who forms an alliance with them to recover the Cloak of the First Pilot from the Cloakmaster, Teldin Moore. This attempt encompasses four battles, as the Imperial Elven Fleet squadron stationed at the Rock of Bral (previously unaware of the Scro conquest of Spiral) fights to gain the Cloak for its commander, Admiral Uliananon Cirathorn.
The Battle of Ironpiece. The Scro fleet (27 ships strong), along with Skarkesh's pyramid ship, intercepts Teldin Moore aboard the hammership PROBE as it is about to make planetfall on the gnome colony world of Ironpiece. The Imperial Elven squadron (five ships strong) intervenes, and a gnomish fleet from Ironpiece arrives as well, leading to a confusing, three-way battle. When the hours long contest is over, the scro have lost two viperships, three scorpionships, two waspships, and one mammothship. The Elves lost one man-o-war, and had another damaged, and the gnomes lost a sidewheeler and several small spellfighters. This battle is generally seen as a gnomish victory as they drive the other two fleets from their colony world.
{The Maelstrom's Eye, pp89-112}
The Raid on Port Walkaway. Still determined to acquire the Cloak of the First Pilot, the Scro launch a raid on the gnomish naval base of Port Walkaway. The attack is a disaster, as the elves had warned the gnomes of it in advance (hoping to patch up relations after accidentally firing on gnomish vessels in the previous battle). Of the twelve vessels the Scro dispatched on the raid, only five survived. The gnomes lost seven small craft and had two large ships destroyed on the ground, as well as some buildings burned. Teldin Moore fled during the battle on the gnomish experimental vessel PERILOUS HALIBUT, heading for Herdspace.
{The Maelstrom's Eye, 143-156}
The Battle of the Cloaked Ships. Realizing the elves were employing cloaking helms, the scro and Skarkesh developed a powder they could jettison to reveal the men-o-war. When two of the elven men-o-war crept in close to investigate the Tarantula Fleet, this technique was used. One of the men-o-war was destroyed, the other damaged but the scro suffered no losses.
{The Maelstrom's Eye, p158}
The Battle of Herdspace. A final battle is fought in Herdspace as the Imperial Elven squadron and the Tarantula fleets fight over the Cloak of the First Pilot. Losses are severe on all sides. The elves lose two men-o-war and an armada, only one man-o-war of the squadron survives the campaign to return to the Rock of Bral. The Tarantula fleet loses the pyramidship, a squidship, and a scorpionship. Only ten of the original 27 Tarantula fleet vessels survive the campaign to return to Spiral. Admiral Cirathorn of the IEN, as well as the scro commanders Admiral Halker and General Vorr, all perish as well. Teldin Moore and the Cloak of the First Pilot survive to continue his quest.
{The Maelstrom's Eye, pp280-294}
[SJ] Lar, an elven world in a remote crystal sphere, is destroyed by the scro. In the battles around Lar the Elven armada ECLIPSE is destroyed and the elves lose ten vessels for every goblinoid vessel destroyed.
{SJS1 Goblin's Return, p5}
[SJ] A Scro fleet of 75 mantis ships enters Greyspace and teams with the Borka Retribution Fleet. The Imperial Elven Fleet presses the ships of the Sindiath Line into service and intercepts this massive humanoid armada at Borka, giving the battle the title 'The Borka Maneuver'. A prolonged, massive battle ends in the humanoid's defeat and the destruction of all but fifteen of the mantis ships. (582 CY)
{Dragon Annual #1 'Campaign Classics: The Scro', p46}
{War Captain's Companion: Book 1, p20}
[SJ] An IEN Armada is found abandoned in Winterspace by Captain Sirion Windharp of the dolphinship STARFOAM. Its crew had been destroyed by tertiary Witchlight Marauders.
{The Radiant Dragon, pp25, 52}
[SJ] The Battle of Armistice. Grimnosh's squadron of orcish allies escapes the Armistice blockade, destroying the IEN man-o-war WINDWALKER in the process. Their escape is short lived, however, as a brief, brutal battle with the IEN swanship TRUMPETER, an IEN man-o-war, and two Radiant dragons destroys all the ships of the orcish fleet as well as the scro dinotherium ELFBANE. The man-o-war and the TRUMPETER are destroyed as well, and one of the Radiant dragons is slain. Shortly after the battle, a primary Witchlight Marauder is released on Armistice.
{Dragon Annual #1 'Campaign Classics: The Scro', p46}


quote:
[SJ] A Scro fleet secretly enters Realmspace and begins contacting humanoids on Toril, they provide firearms and smokepowder to the humanoids. (1368 DR)
{Dragon Annual #1 'Campaign Classics: The Scro', p46}


quote:
[FR/SJ] Arborianna, a world of elves similar to the gold elves of Toril, is destroyed by the scro. The gods Malar and Lloth rescue a man-o-war full of refugees from Arborianna and present them to Kymil Nimesin as allies against Evermeet. (1369 DR)
{Evermeet: Island of the Elves, p87}


From this it is OBVIOUS that the Scro think strongly about "ground matters" in their war. No Navy can hope to win a war without doing so...and the Scro see this clearly. They use humanoids and ogres CONSTANTLY in their efforts.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 10 Jan 2018 :  02:27:30  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
But it's not their primary goal. Their goal is the domination of space. Going out of their way to get groundling enemies involved does not accomplish winning in space.

All of the stuff you quoted includes exactly one reference to worrying about groundling elves -- giving smoke powder to orcs on Faerūn. This is obviously something to occupy the elves, keeping their eyes firmly on the ground, and away from anything that might be going on over their heads. All the other stuff you mention refers to elves with an established presence in space -- the ones that are a direct threat to the scro.

So they let an already present bunch of groundling orcs keep groundling elves on the ground, and then turned their attention elsewhere.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 10 Jan 2018 :  02:53:06  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
HOWEVER, The Forgotten Realms is known to be a world prolific with Portals/Gates to other worlds (and planes), and THAT could prove very useful - a hell of a lot more efficient than flying through Arcane Space (which is why I never understood why anyone would).

Suppose the Scro wanted to lay a trap for the EIN - just attack Evermeet and let a message get out (or send the message yourself). There are dozens of ways in which I can think having Toril (or a piece of Toril, or at least have established relations with Torillian Orcs) would be very beneficial to Space Orcs (then shouldn't they be Orks, or 'Orkboyz')

As to what you can do with regular orcs in space? Well now, as a very devious DM, I can have tons of fun with THAT. Shrink them down, then tie them to arrows, Fire hundreds of arrows at enemy ship (their are even RW weapons designed to do this all by themselves, without archers, if you like). Magic wears off, enemy has a shipload of very angry orcs to contend with. You could even develop specialized spells to shrink entire groups and encase them in magical balls, which you lob onto the enemy ship (slingers, or mini-catapults, etc - even attached to the front of a ballista). The globe hits and shatters, and you have a boarding party. You don't need to know how to fly spaceships to wreak havoc on one.

Or even just normal boarding actions, which I am sure the Scro prefer over whatever tactics the elves like. Or manning bases (you don't need to know much to stand guard duty, etc.) Why would every single orc in their military need to be a Scro? Seriously, you'd only need the commanders to be. Granted, there is some canon saying they prefer to avoid working with normal orcs, but in a war to the death (genocide), people tend to stop being picky about who their allies are, after awhile. I distinctly recall us and Russia being on the same side once. AND China.

And someone has to build all those ships - you think gnomes are doing it for them? Why waste good Scro when you could have Orcish peons doing the manual labor? Supply lines/trains? You think Scro are growing crops or manning their own pig farms? And other camp followers... like prostitutes. Every army/war has 'em. I'm just not picturing the Scro putting cute little dresses and lipstick on goblins... not when Orcish females will do just fine. I doubt Scro are nearly so picky they won't rut with orc girls. That would mean Scro are pickier than humans.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 11 Jan 2018 02:47:02
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3594 Posts

Posted - 10 Jan 2018 :  06:07:20  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

But it's not their primary goal. Their goal is the domination of space. Going out of their way to get groundling enemies involved does not accomplish winning in space.

All of the stuff you quoted includes exactly one reference to worrying about groundling elves -- giving smoke powder to orcs on Faerūn. This is obviously something to occupy the elves, keeping their eyes firmly on the ground, and away from anything that might be going on over their heads. All the other stuff you mention refers to elves with an established presence in space -- the ones that are a direct threat to the scro.

So they let an already present bunch of groundling orcs keep groundling elves on the ground, and then turned their attention elsewhere.



My give up...

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Ayrik
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Canada
6683 Posts

Posted - 10 Jan 2018 :  13:20:48  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I do regret having mentioned the scro at all in this scroll, sorry.

[/Ayrik]
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3594 Posts

Posted - 10 Jan 2018 :  17:51:05  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Getting back to the original idea.

A world dominated by orcs COULD be an ideal place to adventure if some of the following are the case there:

1) The Orcs weren't originally the only major sentient race; and so there are numerous ruins of other people now gone. Based on this, orcs in this world may not have had enemies such as elves or dwarves; but may have had enemies that were non-traditional such as Lizardfolk, Bullywugs and so on. I picture one race, the Firenewts (from ye ol' Fiend Folio) that would be awesome foes to orcs. They could dominate volcanic areas.

2) Even though the orcs managed to create empires, they have warred so long and hard against ancient foes now gone and each other that these empires have shattered since the Gray Orcs came to Faerun. The land itself may not have been able to support their numbers and so smaller localized "Realms" may be in existence such as City-States or such in small pockets separated by wasteland that orcs can't live in but can travel through.

3) Other races, perhaps once slaves of the orcs, have broken free and are now either independent of the orcs all together; or at least in a stagnant stalemate against them. The Firenewts, able to live in the hottest extreme climes, could dominate areas now that the orcs can't swarm for lack of food? Other races might be strong on islands with fleets that the orcs can't counter because they can no longer build ships in their lands for lack of timber...it was stripped and no typical forest remains. Whereas on the Islands other races could allow forest growth and use it to create ships to sail the seas and even support "colonies" on/near the mainland (built in defensive coastal positions) in fortresses able to withstand orc attack.

4) The Orc Pantheon may not control all orcs on the world. Some may in fact worship other powers: demons, devils, even non-evil entities of war, power, strength and so on. When the Gray Orcs continued to summon Avatars of the Orc Gods in the Orcgate War, it could have proven to be a distraction that enabled other entities to gain a foothold that then grew later. I can see Devils (such as Moloch) appealing to Orcs who resorted to summoning them to fight their foes when an Orc God favored their enemy over them. A desperate group of Orcs might even summon a Titan (or even a Solar) via a gate to spite a foe even if it meant their own destruction. Such summoning might be intentional or might be an accident. There is no end to Evil creatures fooling Good Casters to summon them so they can gain a foothold in a world...why wouldn't Good entities want a chance to fight and exterminate evil? Perhaps the Mulan even sent beings to the Orc World to summon Good creatures to help shut the Orcgate?

5) Portals TO the Orc World were opened and spilled into the world creatures opposed to the orcs that lessened their power and helped then shape the world. Perhaps races never seen on the world could be very new there and they have established a foothold. So, if we follow the end of "4)" above, what if say a Titan opened a gateway and brought in its own followers. Titans in AD&D could have up to TWENTY psionic powers as could be had by Clerics (except Levitation?!); so it could easily possess Probability Travel so that it could continue to bring others to the orc world. I just see a group of Titans bringing many Greek-Like people to the Orc World and establishing City-States on Islands...

I see numerous possibilities for this world...and a Portal in the Forgotten Realms dropping a group of adventurers into the world with no immediate way to leave...

AD&D for me!
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Ayrik
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Canada
6683 Posts

Posted - 10 Jan 2018 :  18:16:39  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The orcs (along with collective goblinkind) weren't placed on the Realms by the Creator races. So they could only have come from elsewhere.

The obvious questions are then "where is this place?" and "who were the Creator races there?". I stand by my previous answer, that the "homeworld" of the orcs is now a destroyed and defiled place, probably become merged within the essence of Acheron (on the Outer Planes), and their "Creator" was Gruumsh himself. Gruumsh arrived in the Realms from Acheron/Nishrek (along with the other surviving deities of the orc pantheon), at about the same time as Corellon arrived (along with his Seldarines) from Arvandor - the Realms mythologies explain that elves were formed from drops of Corellon's blood when he and Gruumsh battled for dominance, and they explain Gruumsh's method of claiming which parts of the world would be inhabited by orcs after all the other deities had already divided up the world for their own races (elves and dwarves and humans, etc). So, if both these tales are "true", then Gruumsh has been present in the Realms since before orcs, elves, or the other races walked the land ... and orcs were probably among these first races inhabiting the world.

[/Ayrik]
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sleyvas
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Posted - 11 Jan 2018 :  03:33:37  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like your island idea, and I WOULD place elves on this world. However, I would place at least some elves in Faerun as having fled to Faerun FROM this world via portal. I'd make these islands the last bastions of elven freedom, and yes, they'd be forested.

As to other races, yes, lizard folk and firenewts. I'd also say throw in scorpion men, and maybe a tauric boar folk?

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Dalor Darden
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Posted - 11 Jan 2018 :  03:59:36  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

I like your island idea, and I WOULD place elves on this world. However, I would place at least some elves in Faerun as having fled to Faerun FROM this world via portal. I'd make these islands the last bastions of elven freedom, and yes, they'd be forested.

As to other races, yes, lizard folk and firenewts. I'd also say throw in scorpion men, and maybe a tauric boar folk?



Is there any history of Elves having dealings with Titans?

I had this flash of inspiration where the Elves on this world might live in an idyllic "Greek-Like" paradise (as Grey Elves) where they are "protected" by Titans.

It reminded me of the movie Lord of the Rings where the elves were tall and fair, but had a decidedly bronze age look to them.

EDIT: Titans (in AD&D) are Chaotic Good as are Elves...so that is what got me thinking about it.

AD&D for me!

Edited by - Dalor Darden on 11 Jan 2018 04:00:13
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sleyvas
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Posted - 11 Jan 2018 :  13:27:28  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

I like your island idea, and I WOULD place elves on this world. However, I would place at least some elves in Faerun as having fled to Faerun FROM this world via portal. I'd make these islands the last bastions of elven freedom, and yes, they'd be forested.

As to other races, yes, lizard folk and firenewts. I'd also say throw in scorpion men, and maybe a tauric boar folk?



Is there any history of Elves having dealings with Titans?

I had this flash of inspiration where the Elves on this world might live in an idyllic "Greek-Like" paradise (as Grey Elves) where they are "protected" by Titans.

It reminded me of the movie Lord of the Rings where the elves were tall and fair, but had a decidedly bronze age look to them.

EDIT: Titans (in AD&D) are Chaotic Good as are Elves...so that is what got me thinking about it.



Not that I know of, but I like the imagery. Having this world having giant/fey involvement could be interesting.... but specific giants... for instance, maybe some wood elves and forest giants work together. So different islands, different elves.

Oh, and those elves with the titans.... definitely do a "flying hunt" motif with elves on pegasi guarding it... maybe some elves on giant eagles. I'd also say those elves should be a mix of gold, moon, and star all living in harmony. Picturing harps and lutes... You could also include storm giants, both in the sea and in the air, and it would fit the motif. You could even include sea elves.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Dalor Darden
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Posted - 11 Jan 2018 :  16:33:19  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

Is there any history of Elves having dealings with Titans?

I had this flash of inspiration where the Elves on this world might live in an idyllic "Greek-Like" paradise (as Grey Elves) where they are "protected" by Titans.

It reminded me of the movie Lord of the Rings where the elves were tall and fair, but had a decidedly bronze age look to them.

EDIT: Titans (in AD&D) are Chaotic Good as are Elves...so that is what got me thinking about it.



Not that I know of, but I like the imagery. Having this world having giant/fey involvement could be interesting.... but specific giants... for instance, maybe some wood elves and forest giants work together. So different islands, different elves.

Oh, and those elves with the titans.... definitely do a "flying hunt" motif with elves on pegasi guarding it... maybe some elves on giant eagles. I'd also say those elves should be a mix of gold, moon, and star all living in harmony. Picturing harps and lutes... You could also include storm giants, both in the sea and in the air, and it would fit the motif. You could even include sea elves.



I was thinking Pegasi too. Usually Griffons are associated with Grey Elves; but Pegasi for sure in a Greek style.

I thought about the Sea Elves being the "Marines" of the Elven Navy that kept the islands safe from invasion. Small groups on patrol in the water; while larger groups working in concert with ships in battle.

I thought about the orcs "working" with some giants...the giants being great towering brutes that serve as war machines for the orcs. Instead of Hill Giants or such, I was going to go with the rarely mentioned Mountain Giants (page 42 of the Fiend Folio) which would fit well with the mountainous motif I was thinking of for this world.

Something that JUST occurred to me as I was thinking about this all: the Elves could have Gated the Titans to help them due to the elves numbers being so heavily diminished and their nobles having been nearly exterminated in war against the hordes of orcs. The Titans then began to act as somewhat detached nobility for the elves...only guiding them in defense and otherwise leaving the elves to their own decisions. That would result in a rather loosely organized defensive structure where elven "city-states" that sat on the shores of islands existed.

The picture of the Titan on page 94 of the Monster Manual I is how I see them. Sitting in a great hall where they while away their days as revered defenders who accept occasional audiences. Acting more like benevolent seers/nobles who use their Psionic abilities to communicate via Telepathy to other Titans and then keeping all the city-states connected and their Probability Travel to go at need to the defense of other city-states with select heroes from among the population of their own city-state.

As for the Orcs again:

I picture them as inhabiting a limited number of domains now. Their empires mostly shattered due to their own faults. Because the resources of the lands are exhausted, they delved deep underground in their search for raw materials. They keep goblins as slave miners who are not allowed armor or weapons. The goblins have so long been slaves of the orcs that they know no other life.

I can see the orcs, at their height, possessing magic which they used to nearly destroy the elves. One thing I pictured was them trying to drain the seas that protected the elven islands; but failing completely and essentially only giving the elves LARGER islands and drying up much of their own lands instead.

This lowering of the seas actually created larger marshy areas too where the coasts receded into sea bottoms that became swampland, and then the Lizardfolk were forced from traditional homes into these new lands.

Where did all the water go? Another plane likely. Large gates created and sent into the sea where they sank and then large whirlpools formed above them and began draining the seas. The elves were finally able to stop the draining of course; but it has made the world much drier and caused expansion of desert areas. The short-sighted thinking of the orcs once again causing their own destruction despite their magical power.

Lots of ideas flowing...more later.

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Markustay
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Posted - 11 Jan 2018 :  17:04:18  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
First off,talking about Titans makes me think of Attack on Titan, and although I love that anime (who wouldn't?), there really is no easy way to borrow from it.

Second, if there are 'Bullywugs', shouldn't there be 'friendlywugs'?
(or would the opposite of that be 'Inclusivitywugs', which is a mouthful).

Asabi are another race you can use alongside firenewts. I like the idea of having nearly all of the 'lost kingdoms' be reptilian. Maybe have those mostly gone because of an ancient war with another group, a'la the Giants vs Dragons in most other settings? Like reptilians vs amphibians? That sort of thing? (or flyers could work, and say the flyers are all gone now - maybe stick a 'lost tribe' in a jungle somewhere). Hmmmmm... flying orcs... that could be a thing...

I would NOT put elves there (and probably not dwarves, gnomes, or halflings - I would replace ALL of those with goblinoids filling the same exact niches that the humankin races do). In fact, you could have the hobgoblins be just like elves, goblins be just like dwarves, kobolds be just like gnomes, etc. I guess Bugbears would be like the Orcs on a such a world (although it might be more fun to spin those like primitive elves, and use the hobgoblins like half-orcs; half-orc and half goblins, which is how I think that race originated).

quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

I do regret having mentioned the scro at all in this scroll, sorry.

The first rule of Scro club is we don't talk about Scro club.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 11 Jan 2018 17:27:53
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Markustay
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Posted - 11 Jan 2018 :  17:25:57  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Planet-wise (because I know a teensy-tiny bit about geography ), I love the idea the planet is not as conducive to life as an Earth-like world would be - it should be a world of harsh extremes, which would be an ideal planet for a race of not-Scro superior orcs. Perhaps a binary system (no-one really does those... too much work?), with the planet going into century-long climatic shifts - that sort of thing (100 year winters, etc.).

Volcanoes, extreme weather, entire seas that just disappear for decades at a time, jungles that completely burn-away (or dry up and get sand-blasted away), just to come back super-fast (ALL life, in fact, on such a world should be high-speed - things maturing at an incredibly rate... and I happen to know that would really work for you).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 11 Jan 2018 17:26:44
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Dalor Darden
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Posted - 11 Jan 2018 :  17:26:05  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

First off,talking about Titans makes me think of Attack on Titan, and although I love that anime (who wouldn't?), there really is no easy way to borrow from it.

Second, if there are 'Bullywugs', shouldn't there be 'friendlywugs'?
(or would the opposite of that be 'Inclusivitywugs', which is a mouthful).

Asabi are another race you can use alongside firenewts. I like the idea of having nearly all of the 'lost kingdoms' be reptilian. Maybe have those mstly gone because of an ancient war with another group, a'la the Giants vs Dragons in ost other settings? Like reptilians vs amphibians? that sort of thing? (or flyers could work, and say the flyers are all gone now (maybe stick a 'lost tribe' in a jungle somewhere). Hmmmmm... flying orcs... that could be a thing...

I would NOT put elves there (and probably not dwarves, gnomes, or halflings - I would replace ALL of those with goblinoids filling the same exact niches that the humankin races do). In fact, you could have the hobgoblins be just like elves, goblins be just like dwarves, kobolds be just like gnomes, etc. I guess Bugbears would be like the Orcs on a such a world (although it might be more fun to spin those like primitive elves, and use the hobgoblins like half-orcs; half-orc and half goblins, which is how I think that race originated).

quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

I do regret having mentioned the scro at all in this scroll, sorry.

The first rule of Scro club is we don't talk about Scro club.



I've thought about not having elves...but what race could I use that is so diametrically opposed to orcs that are as beautiful as orcs are hideous?

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Markustay
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Posted - 11 Jan 2018 :  17:47:14  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
On such a world, ORCS would be beautiful. They (and probably all the 'lesser' goblinoids) would look at them as the 'perfect race'.

In fact, maybe when they first encountered humans (who fought back much better than they anticipated), they named them something like 'soft orcs' in their own language, which would be a compliment, to their way of thinking.

For example, maybe their word for non-orcs is Thūl-Kra, meaning 'NOT Orc', and they'd use it the way we use the word 'animal'. However, humans might be referred to as Ba'Kra, meaning 'Soft* Orcs' which would be one of the nicest things they could say about someone (not orcish).

*'Soft' itself would take-on the full spectrum of meanings connected to that term, which would be 'cute, cuddly, emotional, etc, etc... anything that normally would be considered 'un-orcish'). They would cherish strength and hardness, which is why humans would confuse them ("How can such a soft race be so tough?") Their architecture would also reflect this, with harsh angles, rather then soft contours. Everything in such a culture should almost be a 'trial' of sorts, even walking down a hallway (NEVER smooth walls - always rough jagged surfaces - if you are clumsy enough to trip, or stupid enough to be intoxicated, and fall against the walls, other orcs would find it funny that you scraped your face off).

"Life is hard, so live it to the fullest, because at any moment Yurtrus can come for you." (and death by any means other than battle is dishonorable)

Come to think of it, you should use an extended version of an Orcish Pantheon, and get rid of any non-Orc deities (maybe the remaining reptilians have have some demi-powers left, struggling to survive in the Sphere). Strong/brutal/savage gods from other pantheons 'might' be acceptable, but they'd have an orcish aspect in that setting.

I would not replace the elves with another elf-like (pretty) race. Thats not flavorful - thats just 'more of the same'. The idea is to take this place in a completely different direction than other D&D worlds. The Klingon culture from Star Trek would probably be a great inspiration (tNG basically turned them into 'space orcs', right down to their look).

And I am really liking the idea of flying orcs - maybe Gruumsh made some sort of deal with Tiamat (she seems to like making deals), and there could be a group of 'blessed' half-dragons?

I want Batorcs!

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 11 Jan 2018 17:52:41
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Dalor Darden
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Posted - 11 Jan 2018 :  17:55:55  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Planet-wise (because I know a teensy-tiny bit about geography ), I love the idea the planet is not as conducive to life as an Earth-like world would be - it should be a world of harsh extremes, which would be an ideal planet for a race of not-Scro superior orcs. Perhaps a binary system (no-one really does those... too much work?), with the planet going into century-long climatic shifts - that sort of thing (100 year winters, etc.).

Volcanoes, extreme weather, entire seas that just disappear for decades at a time, jungles that completely burn-away (or dry up and get sand-blasted away), just to come back super-fast (ALL life, in fact, on such a world should be high-speed - things maturing at an incredibly rate... and I happen to know that would really work for you).



Instead of any sort of winter...instead have horribly hot "long summers" that happen when the second star comes closer for a while to the world.

The few seas (I don't picture many oceans surrounding land...but land surrounding a few seas instead) would recede quite a bit; perhaps not vanish.

Lizardfolk would be a prime example of a species that can survive in this sort of climate...and I'm probably going to go with the "fact" that reptile types were the First People of this world. Which is why the Firenewts are one of the surviving members of this original species. They are able to live very well in a harsh world that gets really damn hot at times.

quote:

These distant relatives of the lizard men live in sun-baked rocky hills, volcanic regions or any other locale which tends to be hot, dry and sometimes sulphurous, whether above or below ground...



I'll probably focus though on a "northern" area that still has more water than the equatorial areas. A place where the two stars wouldn't bake as badly...and so the orcs and other races are more dominant there; whereas the fiery creatures would dominate the equatorial lands.

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Ayrik
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Posted - 11 Jan 2018 :  18:00:40  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder, of course.

If beauty is not superficial, if the standard of beauty is not form but is instead essence and function, then orcs are indeed beautiful creatures. Inhumanly efficient at what they are meant to do. Nobody likes orcs, even other orcs don't like orcs, but it cannot be denied that as a race they're damned good at what they do, they're everywhere, and once they've been installed they're nigh-impossible to remove - many have tried, few have succeeded.

Elves ... well elves might be pretty to look at. But when the measure of beauty becomes the substance instead of the cosmetic then it turns out some elves are sublime and heavenly, some elves are awesome and terrifying, and some are utterly repulsive and monstrous. And many must be quite ordinary. All regardless of their physical appearance.

Not saying that I think I'd ever fall in love with an orc or easily reject an elven temptress, just saying that "beauty" is too vague and too subjective to properly judge orcs. They are like a machine made to perform a task, simple and robust and efficient, elegant and beautiful and cleverly fashioned in their own way, the perfect instrument for the job.

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 11 Jan 2018 18:06:44
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Dalor Darden
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Posted - 11 Jan 2018 :  18:04:21  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One thing for sure I'm putting in this world is a dusty plain with a huge Adamantine Fortress protruding from it filled with Githzerai.

At LEAST one of their fortresses anyway, if not more.

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Dalor Darden
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Posted - 11 Jan 2018 :  19:12:20  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So far I have the following places:

Orc Realms: small areas obviously dominated by the savage remnants of orcish empires. Based likely in resource rich areas (resources meaning iron primarily) that raid each other and other areas of non-orc dominated species. They subsist primarily on subterranean herds of Rothe that feed on fungal fields as well as eating their own slave stock when needed; but of course feast on fallen enemies too.

Island Realms: I'm undecided on what races will dominate these islands. I'd originally thought elves would be good; but now I'm leaning more toward idyllic "paradises" dominated by demon cults. Deceptively beautiful, they are ruled by single demons each (powerful unique "demons" that may simply be horrid monsters instead of demons) that are served by very evil mortals. What those mortals are, I haven't decided. I still like the idea of "Elves" but this could simply be a mask for horrible monsters. It is possible to trade with these places (as in visit briefly) but they have a fell reputation even among the orcs.

Rust Plains: a place dominated by monkish Githzerai who search the ruins of the world for artifacts. The plains would have purple worms and such monsters.

Empire of Fire: small inter-connected domains of the Firenewts. Each clan dominated by its own "King" which is a Lizard King (page 61 of the Fiend Folio, but with Firenewt Traits). Ultimately this "Empire" is ruled by some fire being. I don't want it to be a dragon, so I'm still thinking on this.

Qullan Jungles: a forested/jungle island that has come to be dominated by the Qullan (page 74 of the Fiend Folio) which are able to repel invasions of their land due to their "Chaos" aura.

"Empire" of Ruin: a ruined land where an empire of orcs once held sway. I think I'm going to make this the empire the Gray Orcs once held. When the hordes went to Faerun it was too weak to withstand its enemies who pressed it on all sides. In defiance, they tried to summon the Orc Gods; but they were no longer favored because of their failure in Faerun. Since the Orc Gods would not help, they instead summoned other powers. The result is a desolate waste of ruined cities inhabited by undead of the spectral/dark variety (shadows, wraiths, spectres, etc.) as well as beasts like death dogs, packs of rust monsters and insectoid creatures in the plains. The cities will be religious ruins where the High Orc culture entombed their Priests; so Mummies and such might be present with other undead as well.

The Icereach: a far north land of mountains dominated by clans of fierce Bugbear Barbarians.

The Dead Sea Lands: a horribly alkaline sea surrounded by orc-cities perched high up on the sides of cliffs that surround the sea. There are now dead islands in the center of the sea filled with ruined cities. Around the exterior the orcs live in greatly diminished numbers. In caves around the cliffsides are monsters in plenty that slither up to feed on the orcs when they can.

The Phantom Waste: a land dominated by the remnants of an orc city's "secret weapon" which were bound Phantom Stalkers (page 72 of the FF). The Phantom Stalkers can't leave because they are bound to Undead Orcs which summoned them. The Phantom Stalkers aren't the only creatures here; but they tend to be vicious after hundreds of years of "imprisonment" on the Prime. The Orcs which summoned them are likely residing as Mummies/Liches in the city at the center of the Waste.

The "Monsters" of the world will be based on orcs instead of humans. I don't see humans having ever been a "part" of the world I'm imagining. So none of the classic were-creatures or vampires and such.

Instead of Werewolf stories, I'd use Gibbering Mouthers in orcish "horror tales" told to orc children and so on. The worst stories would be of Horribly Pretties! Angels and the like would take the place of Demons.

Still working...


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Ayrik
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Posted - 11 Jan 2018 :  20:19:13  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I can't recall any monster entries based on orcs affected by lycanthropy or vampirism ... maybe goblinoids are actually immune to these things?

[/Ayrik]
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