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 Who is this "new" Durnan
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2043 Posts

Posted - 07 Jan 2018 :  23:16:57  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah - she was much better than Vangy's goofyspider-head thing.
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Cyrinishad
Learned Scribe

300 Posts

Posted - 08 Jan 2018 :  20:24:34  Show Profile Send Cyrinishad a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Okay, any Doctor Who fans here? There must be. Did you see the episode with the library (Silence in the Library) - very important episode; we have the Vashta Nerada, and more importantly, it introduces us to River Song (and only in DW you can meet a series-prominent character in the same episode she dies).

But the point I want to make here is what happened to the people in the library (and if you haven't seen the episode, TOO BAD - too late for me to care about spoilers years later!!!) One of my favorite lines of the show: "Donna Noble Has Been Saved". they were stored. Why couldn't we have something like that - when the 'Blue Wave of death' passes over people and places, how about instead of just dying or going to Abeir, they are 'stored' in some sort of interdimensional limbo - erased from the real world (The Prime material), but their 'essence' and all the information about their physicality gets stored in some sort of 'cosmic data dump' (The Cloudlands? LOL!) We know mortal memories are saved like this - the Astral plane becomes a huge 'filing cabinet' for all those memories (which is why souls don't remember their lives - the 'intellect' goes somewhere else). Or like how the transporter in ST can store people and stuff.

And then when Ao does the Sunder-reset, people simply reappear from a hundred years in the past. Those folks didn't die, they got scooped-up by the disintegrating Weave and became part of the raw magical fabric around Toril. Its may be hokey, but no more hokey than anything canon we've seen.



I really like the Halaster/Durnan concept, it fits on a lot of levels for me... But, I also like the idea you're presenting in the quote above, it is very much along the lines of what I was trying to achieve by preserving many of the "classic" villains for my current campaign... and the question as to "who is the storer?"... I would suggest that the "Storer" would be Zalathorm... He is a logical choice to preserve characters for re-introduction after the Spellplague, since he should have seen the Spellplague coming... Considering the lore that the deity Savras may have "stored" himself for later within the Scepter of Savras, it stands to reason that Zalathorm, OR the Benign Order of the Third Eye (whose members were known as "Archivists") could have implemented a similar plan to "store" people so that they weren't wiped out in the Spellplague.

Disclaimer: In my campaign Zalathorm is in league with Bane, and has been since the beginning (he foresaw both Bane's return & the Spellplague)... So, he made extensive preparations to ensure that both Bane & Halruua would avoid destruction during the Spellplague, and emerge stronger than ever in its wake... One of the preparations was to find a way to bring as many classic BBEGs into the post-Spellplague realms as possible (perhaps a now heartless Durnan could be one of them)...

However, considering that members of the Benign Order of the Third Eye received a vision from Savras (prior to the Spellplague) informing them of the need to accumulate knowledge from ALL possible sources in order to be prepared for an upcoming battle with Cyric... Perhaps their way of "fighting" Cyric was to find a way to "store" all the knowledge & people of the Realms, so that they could re-emerge after the Spellplague?

To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge. -Socrates

Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. -Dr. Seuss

Edited by - Cyrinishad on 08 Jan 2018 20:40:12
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
588 Posts

Posted - 08 Jan 2018 :  22:50:26  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Interesting Cyrinishad. I like the idea of adding a little darkness to Zalathorm.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 08 Jan 2018 :  23:40:15  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I had to look up who Zalathorm was... people aren't my specialty.

Well, my idea above was more of an 'as-is' save, with no differences. if someone was drinking a steaming cup of tea, they reappear post-Sundering still holding the hot tea. I didn't really picture anyone controlling it (it may have even been some sort of 'fail-safe' Mystra added after the ToT fiasco, or even something Ao himself added after the first Sundering (in other places around here I've discussed how parts of Abeir may have been used to place the people 'erased' by the Elven tampering with the Sundering).

Thus, as the 'short circuit' passes over an area, all those people and things go into a 'backup file'. You know what would be funny? If the 'Restore point' was actually a few minutes before the Spellplague stuck (Auto-Save? ), and someone managed to teleport out just as the Cerulean Wave washed over them. Then a hundred years later, they run into their younger self (they got 'duped', in game terms). I wouldn't do that more than once, though.

As for Durnam, I think he even had a bit of interaction with Halaster in Elminster in Hell - wasn't it Durnam who went down there to talk to him? If anyone would be down in Undermountain looking for (and perhaps finding a piece of) Halaster, it would have been him.

Thus, while I do like the idea of being able to save whomever - and whatever - I want (a great McGuffin allowing DMs to still cherry-pick the old sources), I think it might be more fun giving Durnam some interesting backstory, since he did change. Maybe even a short story (Ed? Are you listening?) where the guy is walking around mumbling to himself (literally talking to himself - he's got a shard of pure crazy in there with him now).

With Bane, I keep wanting to tie him to Asmodeus - its a great fit. It just stomps all over previous lore. Old Bane is even closer to Asmodeus, theme-wise, then the 4e/5e version, and now we have actual Asmodeus, so there might be something to do with all that. Too bad 4e Core had both, otherwise I could have spun it where our Bane was really Asmodeus the whole time. Maybe use some old 3e rules - those 'aspect of' things - like, "Bane, the Herald of Asmodeus". Something like that. Except one 'Bane' got too big for his britches (FR's, of course, thus we get to keep our own continuity intact). If anyone would be using aliases to invade Crystal Spheres, it would be a dude who is said, "His name is Legion'.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 08 Jan 2018 23:46:18
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2043 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2018 :  00:48:44  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Bane and Asmodeus are not similar in my mind. Bane is a conquering tyrant. Asmodeus is the manipulator at the heart of people who are turned to evil. One is brute force - one is elegant control. Similar result but very different method.
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Balmar Foghaven
Learned Scribe

Canada
103 Posts

Posted - 10 Jan 2018 :  18:24:21  Show Profile Send Balmar Foghaven a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I personally always liked the idea of Durnan having some sort of agreement with Halaster ever since he emerged from Undermountain with his riches. Something along the lines of allowing adventurers to enter into Undermountain to brave its depths at their Peril - which Halaster clearly wanted to satsify his own
mad agendas - in return for Halaster keeping a tight rein on his creatures and/or preventing incursions into the city from the Underdark. Considering Durnan's tavern makes most of its profit from adventurers seeking to go dungeon-delving, it's a win-win scenario. It also would have made Halaster a necessary evil, since his presence would actually benefit the city's safety.

"Despair not, for in the end all things shall work out for the best - in at least one timeline."
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
588 Posts

Posted - 10 Jan 2018 :  22:10:15  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Possible Balmar, also with Durnan as a secret Lord of Waterdeep and leader of the vigilante Red Sashes, this would have made protecting the city easier.
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Gelcur
Learned Scribe

296 Posts

Posted - 25 Sep 2018 :  20:47:46  Show Profile  Visit Gelcur's Homepage Send Gelcur a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A little late to this thread, I didn't bother with Tales of the Yawning Portal since it didn't really have any realms adventures. But Dragon Heist has an entry for Durnan, lists him as True Neutral now.

I was looking for images of Durnan when I stumbled on this thread. I always imagined him looking something like this but seems 5E has chosen to depict him like this, very hipster if you ask me. The only 2E images I could find were in the Heroes' Lorebook, not a big fan of either his or Mirt's picture there.

Anyway something interesting in Dragon Heist is he has a greatsword named Grimvault, from the stats sounds like vorpal?, maybe this has something to do with his change in alignment? Also I haven't seen any mention of the Red Sashes in 5E which Durnan used to run.

P.S. If anyone knows where I can find some good pictures of Durnan or Mirt that would be great, I could swear some 2E source had a full page amazing picture of Mirt.

The party come to a town befallen by hysteria

Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good.

Edited by - Gelcur on 25 Sep 2018 20:50:19
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
588 Posts

Posted - 25 Sep 2018 :  22:29:50  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's quite possible the Red Sashes disbanded when Durnan disappeared for 100 years. Also possible, despite statements to the contrary, that this returned Durnan is not in fact Durnan, but a member of the Unseen or a Malaugrym or something else entirely, perhaps even an avatar of Tymora or Tyche. Who knows.
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Fineva
Seeker

Canada
68 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2018 :  05:31:25  Show Profile Send Fineva a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wait...Khelben return?

I"
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
588 Posts

Posted - 29 Sep 2018 :  13:55:11  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Khelben is still dead. His spirit remains attached to the Blackstaff.
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe

USA
486 Posts

Posted - 29 Sep 2018 :  15:43:30  Show Profile Send moonbeast a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Having drunk gnomes come into my bar every day asking for a mug of "Hardbuckler Flamethrower" would drive me bitter and crazy too.

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Storyteller Hero
Learned Scribe

USA
134 Posts

Posted - 29 Sep 2018 :  19:48:27  Show Profile  Visit Storyteller Hero's Homepage Send Storyteller Hero a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What if Durnan fell in love with an adventurer while traipsing around Undermountain, and lost his love in a cruel situation that he could not prevent or stop?

It could make for an interesting fetch quest - to gather the remains for resurrection or if that's not possible, to find a keepsake that was carried/worn by the deceased lover.






My Blog: https://www.facebook.com/Johnnys-Tabletop-RPG-Design-Blog-1697026710539149/?ref=aymt_homepage_panel

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Gelcur
Learned Scribe

296 Posts

Posted - 29 Sep 2018 :  21:09:26  Show Profile  Visit Gelcur's Homepage Send Gelcur a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Durnan had been married with children at one point.

I'll take a mix and match please, the Durnan we see in 5E is actually a member of the Unseen and the real Durnan is in the sword Grimvault. Some sort of cursed "good" sword haunting an "evil" character. Maybe there is a battle of wills going on hence the Neutral alignment. Maybe the sword is feeding him false memories, explaining the different look, to try to hit to people something isn't right here.

The party come to a town befallen by hysteria

Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good.
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
3031 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2018 :  23:04:13  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

A doppleganger of the Unseen?

-- George Krashos


Now that is interesting. George quietly dropping ideas...

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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