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The Silver Sage
Seeker

17 Posts

Posted - 14 Mar 2018 :  13:56:27  Show Profile Send The Silver Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KanzenAU
I've considered telling my players that the multitude of high-level wizards in the Realms just don't know the spell, but that seems a bit like cheating considering its in the Player's Handbook.



Don't forget that in 5e, each time someone casts the wish spell to non-duplicate a spell, they have a 33% chance of never being able to cast wish again.

Look at it this way: if you were a powerful long-lived arch-mage you're bound to fail that roll eventually. I've encountered it has a High level PC. Every time the party runs into a problem they can't solve, they think "it's ok, we can just solve this problem with a wish." And that works... for a while. But eventually, the wizard fails his roll and now he's stuck casting timestop the rest of his career. So it's hardly a stretch to say NPC mages can't cast wish anymore.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5240 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2018 :  01:03:25  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Which now suddenly makes rings of wishes understandable.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7375 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2018 :  11:30:15  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hmmm, hadn't really read the 5e version of wish. I'll give it to them, they've made it definitely something where I'd have to be in a very very very serious situation before I'd use a wish in any non-standard way (which I've only done once anyway, but I've heard the stories from people). Honestly, my take for wish is that "the act of wishing or thoroughly dreaming some fact or action into reality" should be some kind of component within a higher type of spellcasting. Now, there may be multiple different "methodologies" of this higher type of casting, and it may be something that gets periodically rediscovered by single or small groups of archmages. Some call it Epic Magic. Others call it High Magic. Others call it Great Dream Magic. Some call it TrueName Magic. Some might call it Great Rune Magic. But essentially the concept of each "wish" (in the classic form that we hear of in fairy tales) should be the culmination of research into creating a specific effect.... and those beings who can "grant" wishes on a whim do so by trying a shortcut to said magic that is "encouraged" to twist or literally interpret the wording of things in the easiest way possible for it to make things come into effect.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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nblanton
Seeker

USA
35 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2018 :  13:53:47  Show Profile Send nblanton a Private Message  Reply with Quote
3e really fixed the wish spell, by delineated its uses and gave concrete examples of the functions and powers a wish is able to provide. Most of the changes that The Silver Sage pointed out were put into the 3e Player's Handbook.

Honestly, this whole discussion shows the problems with the older 1/2e wish spells. As a DM and an academic exercise solely, I suppose its fun to try to thwart the game-breaking nature of such spells, artifacts, and items. In reality, at the gaming table when you realize that your players are about to derail the entire campaign and you are stuck trying to salvage the situation it is amazingly frustrating.
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LordofBones
Senior Scribe

821 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2018 :  15:10:36  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Pretty much. The best use of wish is to access spells not on your class spell list.
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nblanton
Seeker

USA
35 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2018 :  16:45:33  Show Profile Send nblanton a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, using M:tG as an example, the wish spell would be effectively a token that you start with that says:

quote:
Cast any known spell. No mana is used to cast the spell. Use this anytime you can use a Sorcery


It isn't an automatic win button, but pretty dang close. Add in the other effects that you can do with the associated stresses and potential loss of wish forever and you can get a really good idea of the amount of power that is available.
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6670 Posts

Posted - 16 Mar 2018 :  02:26:02  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Don't forget the downside of casting wish in 1E/2E ... the caster ages 5 years. Or more for longer-lived races (35 years for an elf).

To be sure, there are longevity magics of many sorts. But they invariably have some sort of limitation or are exceedingly rare and precious finds. So access to extended years is something the DM can control. And "ageless" spellcasters (like liches) can be fearsomely powerful.

And to be sure, there are methods of using others in your place when suffering permanent aging or stat reductions. Evil methods. Or, if not Evil then certainly not easily obtained - few NPCs would trade away 5 years of their life cheaply. So access to countervailed years is again something the DM can control.

Remember that taken for what they were in their intended contexts, the 1E/2E wish rules were not really broken. They are only broken in the context of prevailing attitudes towards magic in 3E onwards.

[/Ayrik]
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nblanton
Seeker

USA
35 Posts

Posted - 16 Mar 2018 :  02:50:05  Show Profile Send nblanton a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The best use of a wish was in the older editions.

You had to cast it on a incapacitated tarrasque to actually kill the thing. That requirement was removed in 5e.
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