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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3666 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2017 :  21:13:33  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
So I read George's writeup of Dude on a Horse again looking for some stray Unther lore and of course got to the bit everyone finds most interesting - the gods.

I did wonder whether the naming of Ahorz was deliberate. It sounds remarkably like Hoar. I'm wondering if the church of Assuran in Chessenta didn't mix with the church of Ahorz in the Vilhon (the Coramshite and Jhaamdath pantheons having merged long before Jhaamdath's destruction) to create the name "Hoar".

I also note that after the Shoon Empire fell there was an attempt by the Mulan to colonise Calimshan somewhat (its in the Calimshan sourcebook and is mentioned at the large number of mulan temples in the city). I'm thinking that after Assuran and Ahorz churches merged in Chessenta then the merged church went to Calimshan to convert them to the new order (of Hoar).

Now why is the symbol of Ahorz a five pointed star. Does this have some meaning in Calimshan/Shoon.




Also Emestas in the Unapproachable East - another member of the pantheon perhaps (I forget the name of it) which is most represented by the Yuirwood gods. Or perhaps an old Arthraen Nar deity.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30647 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2017 :  22:12:45  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The name "Ahorz" comes from the original creation of the NPC. The artwork was a guy on horseback, and the fandom eventually dubbed him Dūd Onahorz -- "dude on a horse."

There's a whole discussion on him from a few years ago, here: Cover of Old Gray Box; this was obviously well before we go Krash's treatment of him.

(And man, I'd forgotten about The Hidden Lord. Must forget him again as soon as possible! )

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 20 Dec 2017 22:20:56
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The Masked Mage
Master of Realmslore

USA
1612 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2017 :  22:43:31  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just putting this lil response to that thread Wooly linked to here so as not to resurrect it fully:

It was noted his stats seemed overblown, but assuming he had 18 Con then he'd only have to average 5 or 6 on his nine d8 rolls for those HP, once you add in the bonus. Not shabby but also not amazing. :)
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4967 Posts

Posted - 21 Dec 2017 :  01:40:00  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I did like the synergy between Ahorz and Hoar which is why he got made a priest of that deity and a shades of grey, anti-hero, might help the PCs or not guy. Originally he was going to be an all out priest of Talos baddie, but as with all such things, as you dive in, things ... change.

As for the five-pointed star, my illustrator is to blame for that!

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14885 Posts

Posted - 21 Dec 2017 :  07:36:08  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
He was 'named' on the old WotC boards - I recall the conversation well.

I said his name was 'Dood Onahorz' as a joke, and Lord Karsus then sugested "Dūd Onahorz" was more 'Realmsian'. We never knew how it would catch on.

He has a somewhat official 'other name' from the old Spellfire(?) card game, but I can't recall what that was.

Another we were toying with was the woman on the cover of Forgotten Realms Adventures. She also has a somewhat official name (the name of the artwork I believe was something like "Alissa of the Mists"), but nowhere in FR canon does it say who she is, and a lot of us thought it was Alusair.

EDIT:
I found the card, but it just says "Adventures!", so I guess thats NOT where Dūd had a real name. I also found a card 'Alissa of the Mists', just like the name of the painting itself, so I would have to say that was indeed Alissa... whoever the hell that is.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 21 Dec 2017 08:02:19
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4967 Posts

Posted - 21 Dec 2017 :  09:31:05  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Daoud was given a real name in the Ral Partha miniatures set - "Thunderstorm". I tied that in as his Tethyrian secret agent name.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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BadCatMan
Learned Scribe

Australia
299 Posts

Posted - 21 Dec 2017 :  10:19:21  Show Profile Send BadCatMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here he is!
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Thunderstorm

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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3666 Posts

Posted - 21 Dec 2017 :  10:56:02  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Alissa of the mists.

I thought about changing Alissa to Mahlissa, then a random thought occured - what about Amahlissa. A relative to the shoom dynasty perhaps.

How fitting that she rides a unicorn given her ancestors past. Then i remembered that Amahl Shoon was trapped in the tome of the unicorn and swapped bodies with a woman.

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BadCatMan
Learned Scribe

Australia
299 Posts

Posted - 21 Dec 2017 :  13:28:18  Show Profile Send BadCatMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I spoke too soon, I got hooked and compiled all that was known about the guy:
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Thunderstorm

Intriguingly, he was first named Thunderstorm in the Ral Partha miniatures in 1989. Like the Magister, he appeared alongside iconic characters, when a dozen better known NPCs could have filled his spot, indicating he was considered to have iconic character status by TSR. "Iconic" like the familiar iconic characters representing each class in 3.x editions, that is, not in being famous. He's a stand-in for the Realms. I wonder if someone at TSR suggested and named him; however, the thunderclouds in the background of the artwork imply they didn't think very hard.

The AD&D Trading Cards card came a bit later, in 1991. Although many of these reproduced old artwork for some briefly sketched characters, someone at TSR evidently remembered Thunderstorm and attached his name, so he's more than one of the run-of-the-mill card characters.

The more I think about it, the more I think he's the perfect iconic character for the Realms. He is the generic adventurer, he is a placeholder for the PC. He isn't Greenwood's character, he isn't Salvatore's character, he is your character and he is our character. Whether Thunderstorm or Dūd Onahorz, he is for us to tell stories about.

I want the upcoming movie to be about this guy.

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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3450 Posts

Posted - 21 Dec 2017 :  15:41:18  Show Profile  Visit Dalor Darden's Homepage Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Alissa of the Mists is a Ixinosan adventuress...

AD&D for me!

Ravenlore Publishing Group

Edited by - Dalor Darden on 21 Dec 2017 16:00:53
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14885 Posts

Posted - 23 Dec 2017 :  21:29:01  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ah, thats where I went wrong - I was looking at the Spellfire cards, where that pic is used and it just says, "Adventure!" I forgot all about the older AD&D Trading Cards.

Great write-up, BTW, BadCatMan.

One of those instances where the 'legends' are so much more fun than the truth.
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

Alissa of the Mists is a Ixinosan adventuress...
And one-time lover of Alusair Obarskyr... but then again, who wasn't.


"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 23 Dec 2017 21:30:14
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
2986 Posts

Posted - 24 Dec 2017 :  16:49:40  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-Until I read a link below and remembered the guy on the cover, I was thinking this was Dūd Onahorz:

https://i1.wp.com/michaelmay.us/09blog/10/1028_headlessdnd.jpg?zoom=2

-He's not, but now I'm trying to remember where he came from. A WotC article on something?

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

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Edited by - Lord Karsus on 24 Dec 2017 16:49:55
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30647 Posts

Posted - 24 Dec 2017 :  17:00:42  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

-Until I read a link below and remembered the guy on the cover, I was thinking this was Dūd Onahorz:

https://i1.wp.com/michaelmay.us/09blog/10/1028_headlessdnd.jpg?zoom=2

-He's not, but now I'm trying to remember where he came from. A WotC article on something?



Yes, it was a rather underwhelming bit of free Realmslore, which can no longer be found on their site. It was the Zhent Headless Horseman.

Really. It's not a joke.

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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
2986 Posts

Posted - 24 Dec 2017 :  19:10:48  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-That's what it was, I remember now!

-Wow, WotC did a number on their site. Forget the boards are gone, I don't really see any articles asides for playtest rules, and errata.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14885 Posts

Posted - 24 Dec 2017 :  19:26:52  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Its easy to forget the past when you erase the past.

Happens all the time... especially when you pull down... never mind.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 24 Dec 2017 19:27:12
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30647 Posts

Posted - 24 Dec 2017 :  20:11:34  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

-That's what it was, I remember now!

-Wow, WotC did a number on their site. Forget the boards are gone, I don't really see any articles asides for playtest rules, and errata.



For years, WotC has had a horrible habit of rearranging everything on their site without bothering to update any links. In most cases, I've found you can still find the content by monkeying with the old URL and whatever the new style is... I've also found older stuff that remains with no links at all; there are some files they posted in 2000 that can still be downloaded, if you have the direct URL.

I've always been reluctant to criticize WotC without what I considered to be good cause -- but for me, their web folks have amply provided that good cause.

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Lord Karsus
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USA
2986 Posts

Posted - 28 Dec 2017 :  23:04:25  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-That sounds pretty...wow. I know a lot of WotC's online presence was eliminated because it cost money to maintain servers and pay employees, and yada, yada, yada, but I wonder why some stuff is still stuck in the cracks of the internet.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30647 Posts

Posted - 29 Dec 2017 :  02:40:43  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

-That sounds pretty...wow. I know a lot of WotC's online presence was eliminated because it cost money to maintain servers and pay employees, and yada, yada, yada, but I wonder why some stuff is still stuck in the cracks of the internet.



I think part of it is that not even WotC's web people know where everything is. When I was looking for one of those files from 2000, I pinged the WotC customer service folks, and one promised to get the web folks involved... And I never heard back.

While that's not proof, there is also the fact that those old files from 2000 are still out there -- and so far as I know, the only links to them anywhere are in the old scroll where I was looking for them (and I had a hard time finding them, back in like 2006!) Since I can't fathom why they'd leave things like a 2E spell out there deliberately, I conclude that the web folks simply aren't aware it's there.

I think that the staff has probably been replaced multiple times, and documentation not updated or even lost, and that the focus has been keeping the site up and accessible rather than worrying about older content... While that does make a certain degree of business sense, it doesn't make sense the way they've moved stuff around multiple times without updating any links.

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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
2986 Posts

Posted - 30 Dec 2017 :  18:34:21  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-WotC dark money, being secretly funneled to keep 2e/3e alive, but only if you know where to look. We've stumbled on a conspiracy.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

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The Masked Mage
Master of Realmslore

USA
1612 Posts

Posted - 30 Dec 2017 :  19:20:08  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My guess is that at times they put things on free post sites to save money, and then just forgot them. Obviously it would have made more sense to have their own servers and then just shut them down but as we've seen time and again apparently WOTC doesn't like to make sense.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30647 Posts

Posted - 30 Dec 2017 :  19:47:28  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

My guess is that at times they put things on free post sites to save money, and then just forgot them. Obviously it would have made more sense to have their own servers and then just shut them down but as we've seen time and again apparently WOTC doesn't like to make sense.



The thing is, they have had content that was originally posted, with links pointing at it, and then they later went back and moved the content elsewhere -- but didn't update any links.

For a while, the WotC site was updating pretty much every weekday with something new, and sometimes it was multiple articles. For a while, Sage and I had an informal contest going on to see who could be the first to update a thread here with updates to a specific WotC feature.

So there is a buttload of stuff on their site... But most of it's inaccessible, because of the way they arbitrarily redesign the whole site every few years.

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