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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Dec 2017 : 18:27:51
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Hey, what all do we know about Mount Thulbane officially? I know that there was a competition held there for the rulership of Mourktar. At its base are the Fields of Pryollus, where every two years athletic competitions are held to determine Chessenta's finest athletes. It was also rumored to be a place where Assuran "lived" (which given the number of volcanos that are tied to primordials... and Assuran's role as the "god of three thunders".... makes me wonder... but it also could have been a manifestation). It was also an "extinct volcano".
We also have from dragons of Faerun that Jaxanaedegor the vampiric green dragon has been known to assume the form of Assuran to fool gullible worshippers of the Lord of the Three Thunders.
You know, as I write this.... I kind of wonder if Assuran isn't a draconic being... some kind of advanced bronze dragon ... the three thunders thing, given that dragons used to only be able to breathe 3 times a day... but maybe put a spin on it since that rule is long gone. Maybe he was a dragon who developed the ability to spit three lines of lightning at once, each of which followed with a rolling thunder. Maybe he picked up human worshippers in the aftermath of the death of their pantheon. Given that he's lawful but not evil and is interested in justice, it would seem he'd make a decent bronze dragon turned deity. He may have then later been run off by Gilgeam or Ramman, at which point he joined the Faerunian pantheon as Hoar the Doombringer, and later transcended to the outer planes.
This would of course mean that the Unther/Chessenta area is rife with dragons attempting to become deities. We have the blue dragon who is the "Millenium Dragon". We have Tchazzar. Then possibly Assuran. Given the ties of gods like Anu to dragons...
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2017 : 19:24:38
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| In 4e Mount Thulbane was Alasklebanbantos's (Al from now on) lair. That dragon vampire, Jaxanaedegor, had a lair there as well. The lair is visited in one of the Brotherhood of the Griffon novels, but nothing noteworthy happened (beyond Jezri got her fire magic staff there). While Al was destroyed and his phylactery is lost somewhere in Akanûl by the end of the novels, Jaxanaedegor is still living in Mount Thulbane, now cowering in fear because he betrayed Al, and he knows Al is not happy with that. With Tchazzar returning in Erebos, I see Jaxanaedegor pledging himself to the red dragon just to avoid being killed by Al, if not already dead, with Al again the master of Mount Thulbane. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2017 : 22:26:25
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He lives there, as well. But in 4e, he conquered Threskel (I remember he started this campaign in Dragons of Faerûn, but in 4e he was the ruler of Threskel). So, he has many lairs in the region, including one in Mt. Thulbane.
Then, Chessenta conquers Threskel in the Brotherhood of the Griffon novels. Now, I believe that between the dissolution of Chessenta as an organized nation and the return of Unther, Threskel is lost as well... |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 17 Dec 2017 22:28:56 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2017 : 00:50:58
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Yeah, for all we know, the Untheric gods had dragons as servants, and when the gods died, the dragons saw opportunity. Of course, I would only say that with metallic or gem dragons. Since their enemy for the pantheon was Tiamat, I don't see any member of the Untheric pantheon having a chromatic dragon as a servant. We already know that Marduk was a dragon. Nanna-Sin became a dragon turtle.
Heck, now that I think on it.... it might be interesting if the being portraying himself as Gilgeam weren't a dragon as well. Maybe a dragon overlord of Abeir who saw opportunity. Maybe he somehow infused himself with the power of Gilgeam (we know his godflesh was still around... or at least I believe so... I forget what happened to the flesh that was animated in Alabaster staff). Maybe its even some dragon overlord with a beef with Tymanther (and Karshimis). Hmmmm, one of the things I'm doing with the Red Mineral Forest of Shyr idea was that the Citadel of Burning Ice hold Karshimis' mount that betrayed him, and its blood is melting the ice constantly. However, what if Karshimis has a LOT of dragons in there and is bleeding them for power. What if the special fruit of the red mineral forest was meant for a primordial..... And playing with that concept of dragon blood feeding the earth.... IF this Gilgeam is a dragon overlord, maybe its mate was taken from him by Karshimis... |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2017 : 01:20:16
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| The Gilgeam-zombie? It seems it exploded. Disappeared in a flash of light, but nobody actually saw it disappear. So... you have a open opportunity here. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
401 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2017 : 01:28:27
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Mount Thulbane once also bore a mansion belonging to the mage Malanthus Stormstaern, who was Magister from 154 to 177 DR, though fighting giants later tore it apart. (From Secrets of the Magister.)
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Malanthus_Stormstaern
That might well predate Jaxanaedegor's arrival, however, and Malanthus had several homes. However, Malanthus's "Storm" name and nicknames kind of imply a link to Assuran, Lord of Three Thunders, or at a shared stormy theme. |
BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2017 : 13:09:49
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quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
Mount Thulbane once also bore a mansion belonging to the mage Malanthus Stormstaern, who was Magister from 154 to 177 DR, though fighting giants later tore it apart. (From Secrets of the Magister.)
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Malanthus_Stormstaern
That might well predate Jaxanaedegor's arrival, however, and Malanthus had several homes. However, Malanthus's "Storm" name and nicknames kind of imply a link to Assuran, Lord of Three Thunders, or at a shared stormy theme.
NICE, I like this. Especially since we know that Hoar/Assuran being allowed into the Faerunian pantheon was contingent upon Mystra being accepted into the Untheric one. Having Malanthus be an incarnation/child of Assuran and then picked up as a Magister (yeah, I know Azuth technically chooses the magisters), might have been a way to get Mystra "in" the area. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2017 : 18:00:14
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I thought Alasklerbanbastos lived in the northern most of the Riders to the Sky Mountains.
I'd never thought about Assuran being a dragon although its not a bad idea. It gives added depth to why Unther went on a dragon purge in its early years (assuran was stealing their hoard). Perhaps all the supposed gods were dragons in disguise; that's why they lived so long.
There were lots of dragons in the south. I definitely read a quote about the dragon overlords of the south in a sourcebook once upon a time. I don't know what happened to them but I'm thinking Unther and or Shoon wiped them out.
I'm not going down the dragon route personally but I definitely think there is more to be done with Mount Thulbane and Threskel. We have a possible Bane presence there before his ascension as well.
ALL gods ARE 'dragons'. It seems Athas (Dark Sun) got it right. 
On that world, once you hit a certain level (either 20 or 25 - I forgot), you begin your 'ascendance' (or transcendence... whatever) into a demigod, over the next 5-10 levels. It was in the book Dragon Kings, which I no longer have, sadly. Its where I got a lot of my 'mortals-can-become-gods' at a certain level ideas (It also harkens back to OD&D's 'Immortals'). If you can get your hands on that book, they have a great set of illustrations showing how a person becomes more and more dragon-like, until they actually become a full dragon (god, in that setting, or rather, demigod).
And in our D&D mythos, we have a lot of the most ancient powers being draconic, which is why I say another name for the groups I've dubbed 'Ordials' (Estelar & primordials from canon, and my Supernals & Eternals not from canon) is 'Drækons' - a very ancient word for 'God'. Since those most ancient beings wouldn't have looked 'human' (why would they, when humans didn't even exist?), or elvish, or anything else - they took whatever forms they wanted, when they manifested physically, and back in those days it would have been a fairly 'primitive' type of form - that of a reptile. Hence, dudes like Ubtao, who never 'got with the program'.
The problem I keep finding myself running into - and see everyone else running into - is this whole premise of 'dragon gods', 'human gods', Elven gods', etc... for these ANCIENT, primal beings. They may have aspects to that affect now, but that's NOT what THEY ARE. In the beginning, those early 'mortal' races - the Creators - would have seen all of these beings as 'draconic'. And thus that term 'Drækon' which I used to use means 'creature of vast & unimaginable power', and its where the modern word 'dragon' comes from (in my homebrew lore). Sages just get mixed-up (at least, human ones) when they translate ancient texts between the two different words and meanings.
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When someone transcends their mortal form, they become a spirit, and that spirit, if it has enough power, can become something else (we see this with MANY undead types). One thing an incredibly powerful person can become is a demipower. A demipower is a god - one with only one avatar. However, the rule for gods still applies - its Avatar can appear as anything it wants. The 'default' is to look the way the people you are manifesting for expect you to look (so in the case of demigods, like you did in life). However, as in the case of all Godly manifestations - including but not limited to Avatars - a god can change the default setting and appear any way they want... even as a turnip, if they so desire. That's just how it works.
Thus, EVERY god has a draconic form, simply because they can have any form they want. Elminster's taken dragon form tons of times, and I am sure other Chosen have as well. In fact, most creatures not bound to the Prime Material Plane (which means just about all forms of incorporeal undead... and dead) can change shape. Fiends can do it. So can celestials (they just don't like 'tricking' people so its not widely known). We are talking about beings (outsiders) who don't actually have forms in the Material plane - they are created on-the-fly when they manifest there. When outside the Material Plane(s), they are composed of the matter of the 'Plane Stuff' itself - that part is canon. This is why they just 'go back' when killed in the Prime - all you did was destroy their current 'shell'.
And what plane is a being's 'home plane'? Why, the one that most closely matches their alignment, of course. If an angel suddenly finds itself respawning in the Nine Hells, it knows it ****ed-up. This even applies to primes (mortals) - the material plane is just a 'temporary base of operations' for the soul. When you die, you respawn in the plane you are supposed to go to. However, the Gods (and fiends) messed with all of that, way back when, and now there is this whole 'waiting room' approach - an 'in-between' stage (weigh-station) where they get judged or whatever, and then move-on. That's just something that came about after the Dawn War, when the Gods all agreed to the 'Celestial Accords' (or whatever).
The 'default' setting for death is that you go to the plane of your alignment. Everything else is just another artificial layer put there by 'The gods'. You respawn on the layer you are supposed to, just like any other outsider. There really is no such thing as 'native' in regards to the prime - its a misconception. The physical world is temporary. Its a playground.
So go be that dragon... you have it in you. We all do.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 18 Dec 2017 18:10:25 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2017 : 18:31:39
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
Mount Thulbane once also bore a mansion belonging to the mage Malanthus Stormstaern, who was Magister from 154 to 177 DR, though fighting giants later tore it apart. (From Secrets of the Magister.)
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Malanthus_Stormstaern
That might well predate Jaxanaedegor's arrival, however, and Malanthus had several homes. However, Malanthus's "Storm" name and nicknames kind of imply a link to Assuran, Lord of Three Thunders, or at a shared stormy theme.
NICE, I like this. Especially since we know that Hoar/Assuran being allowed into the Faerunian pantheon was contingent upon Mystra being accepted into the Untheric one. Having Malanthus be an incarnation/child of Assuran and then picked up as a Magister (yeah, I know Azuth technically chooses the magisters), might have been a way to get Mystra "in" the area.
Hmmm, so Malanthus was found in at least 3 locations (Turmish, a keep in the earthfast mountains near the headwaters of the fire river... so roughly in Impiltur, and a mansion high on Mount Thulbane that was later torn apart by giants). His eyes were "liquid black flecked with gold", so maybe he was some kind of genasi or some other entity that's not strictly human. He produced a lot of children around the inner sea, and these children have "dark and flashing eyes"... even apparently cuckolding "rulers" (which that just opens some options too) who nickname him "the tireless" (guessing that was more the cuckoldees not the cuckolded... picturing some flustered queens chatting about his stamina while tittering...)...
Then the part that really made me go "hmmmmmmm"..... given recent talks about things bombarding the surface of Toril.... he died by being struck by a "falling star".... almost like he staged his own death as part of some ritual transcendence (maybe even on Mt. Thulbane?)
Not sure where to take that idea, but there's a seed there.... Assuran as a "primordial dragon".... falling star... magister of Azuth.... mortal meets primordial ... makes god.... |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2017 : 08:52:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Thus, EVERY god has a draconic form, simply because they can have any form they want. Elminster's taken dragon form tons of times, and I am sure other Chosen have as well.
Dragonshape - 9-th level. Was in Volo's guides and probably somewhere else. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2017 : 13:38:29
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| Yeah, we get that anyone can be any shape, but there's "what you started as" and "what you shape change into", and what you started as tends to have an effect on how your psyche works. Tchazzar for instance, despite possible good intentions to start, inevitably has his red dragon side come to the fore as time passes and "the marriage to humanity" comes more into fruition. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2017 : 16:25:27
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Yes, Tchazzar is an ascended mortal, albeit a dragon one. So he has a definite 'preferred' shape.
Where most of my logic applies is to those 'from the beginning' type entities. I don't believe Tiamat and Bahamut fall into that category. They're ancient, but not really Estelar/Primordial material. I am not really comfortable with ancient draconic deities like them being younger than powers like, say, Corellon and Moradin, but it is what it is. Anyhow, the point is, all those beings - even Tiamat and Bahamut - pre-exist (terrestrial) dragons. They even pre-exist reptiles, or anything else that would constitute a 'normal animal'.
So if Corellon looks like a pointy-eared, androgynous human(oid), or Io appears as a dragon, thats on their worshipers, not them. Unlike deities like Tchazzar, they never had a material form. It is just like wearing clothes to them. Technically, ALL those 'in the beginning' Gods (Estelar) are 'Dragons' (or as I like to spell it, Dræcons).
Now, how this applies to your topic - Ptah I have as a Supernal. In fact, I have it where he created Moradin (and Annam). Ioun may have created 'the written word', but it was Ptah who crafted the first Runes of Power, and gave them to his creations so that they could more easily build the world to the god's liking. Ptah is also a Drækon - one of the originals and most powerful. His 'domain' is an entire dimension - the 3rd dimension of 'space'. And after just reading Wikipedia on him, I think I am going to simply combine him with the Demiurge (since thats what he was to the Egyptians). Although usually depicted as a (deformed) dwarf, he is also depicted quite often with green skin ('little green men' in ancient Egypt? Hmmm....). Also, we see that all the Pharonic gods are pictured with the heads of beasts (although a couple are more-often shown with human features).. Its fairly easy to surmise that if Ptah created the Pharonic pantheon, that they are all of that 'truly ancient' category (with Tiamat, Bahamut, and the rest of the Babyl-Sumerian pantheon) and thus, originally dræconic. All of them should have a dragon-aspect, because anything even remotely 'mammalian' hadn't come about yet.
And as I was just reading up on Horus, I found that he had an eye gouged out. Hmmmmm... Odin? Gruumsh? He lost it battling Set - I could have a field-day turning Corellon into Set.
I have to wonder why so many of these ancient religions have a dude who lost an eye. And then there is the Greek myth about the Graeae, who share an EYE between them. They are similar to the Norns (probably the same group) - perhaps Odin went to them for the wisdom he sought, and that's the eye they use? They also shared a 'tooth' - the Dentures of Vecna?  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 19 Dec 2017 16:29:21 |
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Cyrinishad
Learned Scribe
300 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2017 : 17:58:37
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You're definitely onto something with this, Sleyvas...
Here are a few more musings about the Lore that I think tie into the connections you're making... This scroll makes me think that it is not a coincidence that it was a Green Dragon that was impersonating Assuran... When Assuran(Hoar) was linked to Bane(Xvim), Green was the color that pervading the Barrens of Doom and Despair, on the plane of Acheron... Assuran/Acheron?
Bane(Xvim) has already been shown to have temporarily exerted power and control over another dragon while she was on his plane, Tiamat... Then it would make a lot of sense that Bane(Xvim) would be able to exert power and control over Assuran(Hoar) if he was a type of Bronze Dragon... And the areas in the realms where Assuran was worshipped before he became Assuran(Hoar) are based on Bronze Age Civilizations...
All of this makes me realize the signifigance of the only description of Bane as a mortal warrior, which noted that his only relevant possession was an Iron Sword that rippled with Arcane Energy... This makes me think Bane is directly tied to Green Dragons, here's why:
The Lore about Green Dragons is clear... At birth, the dragon's scales are a Green so dark that it appears to be Black... It's favorite prey are Fey/Elves and it enjoys corrupting them (Fey are vulnerable to Iron)... The Fog that pervades their domain tortures the minds of its minions with Fear & Nightmares, and the Dragon's breath is Poison Gas (Loviatar & Talona are Bane's two favorite ladies)... In conflict, Green Dragons never slay all of their foes, and use Intimidation & Fear to control the survivors (Bane did this with the goblinoid deities)... The Green Dragon's favorite treasures are sentient creatures & legendary heroes that it has bent to its will...
The Green Dragon description above is Standard Operating Procedure for Bane(Xvim), and follows along with Black to Green evolution of his symbols, his use of Tyrant-Fog, and ... Oh, and Green Dragons are noted as good parents that foster loyalty in their children... Which makes Iyachtu Xvim's unshakeable loyalty to his father even more logical...
BTW, Green Dragons = Lawful Evil, Bronze Dragons = Lawful Good...
And we know Bane & Green Dragons both love fallen paladins |
To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge. -Socrates
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. -Dr. Seuss |
Edited by - Cyrinishad on 19 Dec 2017 18:09:02 |
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Cyrinishad
Learned Scribe
300 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2017 : 19:23:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
...I was just reading up on Horus, I found that he had an eye gouged out. Hmmmmm... Odin? Gruumsh? He lost it battling Set - I could have a field-day turning Corellon into Set.
Corellon's identity as a treacherous serpent god cannot be escaped, the body of evidence is insurmountable no matter what pantheon you perceive him in... |
To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge. -Socrates
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. -Dr. Seuss |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2017 : 19:26:25
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Thats all very interesting - also some fey (certain elves in FR and also in RW folklore concerning the dwarves, who WERE elves in those stories) can change into dragons, so there is something there between the two races - some ancient connection. My thoughts ATM are that maybe chromatic dragons were created from dwarves (the 'greed' thing plays into that), and metallic dragons were created out of elves (Gold and Silver Elves, and we also have Copper (and old name for the Sylvan/Wood group) and Mithril (Star) elves as well.
So are you saying that the Pharonic pantheon may have 'primordial' connections/leanings? If they had dragons for slaves/servants, that would make a lot of sense. I've already stated I think Ptah created Annam (the creator of the creators), so maybe the Pharonics, at least, were later-primordials (ones that were 'purpose-built', rather than ones that simply appeared 'at the beginning'). Basically, you could class them as a type of 'giant' (ancient religions, like the Norse, didn't differentiate all that much between the primordial giants and the gods; some, like Loki, were part of both groups).
Also, sometimes Gods are referred to as 'giants in the earth'. And if we connect the Pharonic pantheon to giants, it makes sense in regards to the Statues that Walk - maybe they are the remains of vacated incarnations. Lastly, we have the stuff about the Nephilim from The Book of Enoch (Biblical Apocryphal) - that 'giants of the heavens' (primordials?) came down and mated with mortals, and created a race of half-gods - the Nephilim. This would have occurred in Mesopotamia, right around where all three Mulan pantheons came from. This actually shoe-horns beautifully with our canon FR lore concerning those pantheons - that they are 'half human'.
And I believe that all of the Dark Three first arose 'in the east' (and I am going to include the OE in that because their cultures originated in the Hordelands, from Imaskar). Myrkul was definitely a Prince of Murhôm, and Bhaal was probably linked to Sentinalspire (IIRC, he was worshiped there, pre-ToT).
I always spun Bane as a half-orc, but he could have possibly been a Half-dragon Halforc? Or maybe the offspring of one of those half-dragon Nephilim and an orc? Maybe some of the 'violence' of the Orcgate Wars took a slightly different direction... Could Gruumsh have raped one of the female manifestations and created Bane?  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 19 Dec 2017 19:49:45 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2017 : 19:30:03
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Wait... did I just Hoar-shame the Egyptian Pantheon?
EDIT:
So maybe Bane actually looked more like THIS? (except Green) |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 19 Dec 2017 19:47:08 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2017 : 20:41:18
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Well after digging through some Unther lore I found an item known as the Banespear that is capable of killing Gilgeam. I figure if it can kill Gilgeam then it may have been used to kill a godking in the past.
Then I was thinking about Mount Thulbane. I looked up in my Mulhorandi lexicon and found words like Thul (mostly like thal actually but linguistic corruption is easily explained) and the word is close to a Mulhorandi word for "three" or "storm". Mulhorandi is close enough to Untheric to share words (albeit corrupted) If I mix the two words together I get "three storms" or more appropriately three thunders. Mount Thulbane = Three Thunders Bane
I have Assuran as fleeing Unther around 108 DR when Ramman arrives and I had him flee to Chessenta (before it was Chessenta). I also have Bane involved in the Chondathan region in the centuries after Jhaamdath's Fall. I peg the events of the Swords of the Iron Legion to take place sometime after 100 DR when civilisation is rebuilding and there are many robber barons in the region.
So sometime after that what if Bane (before godhood) slays Assuran in a battle atop Mount Thulbane. During the battle a series of lightning strikes also causes the death of Bane (hence the retribution aspect of Assuran). The cults that worship these demigods and the epic nature of their death mean that they attain true godhood after death.
Bane's cloak and spear are left behind (Maladraedior steals the spear for later) while the cloak is taken by Banites to Mourktar.
The question is why did they do battle. Well Chessenta was nothing more than warring city states but it is likely both demigods tried to take control of the region. Bane's spear is like the dagger used to slay Borem of the Boiling Mud and it steals power from the slain and channels it to the wielder. Its how the Dark Three were intending to gain godhood (by stealing it from others).
At least that's what I intend to do with Mount Thulbane. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2017 : 21:06:08
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Another coincidence - I just named something 'Thul' yesterday. How strange is that?
Maybe, before him becoming dominant in the Moonsea region, Bane had tried to control the 'Blade Kingdoms', which would have been ALL of Chessenta, pre-Chessenta. It would make sense that he had a few failures before eventually succeeding.
I still like my idea of attaching Kiputytto to the Dark Three, as a 4th 'party member' whom they betrayed and sealed-away. She would have wanted to re-attain godhood, and they would have been using her for her knowledge of 'all things divine'. I guess no-one else wanted to run with that. The party needed a healer (priest), dammit!  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
401 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2017 : 02:16:06
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I've sometimes thought of Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul as doing during the Dawn Cataclysm what Midnight, Kelemvor, and Cyric did during the Time of Troubles: great adventurers who arose at a time of divine crisis, journeyed across the land, slew some stray gods, and ascended to godhood themselves. Only the Dark Three were all evil, while only Cyric was evil, and the Time of Troubles was triggered by dark deeds, the Dawn Cataclysm by light. Mirroring it like that, repeating it in the past, makes Midnight's, Kelemvor's, and Cyric's ascensions seem less inexplicable.
The hypothetical fourth member in the party has to be a cleric, who, like Adon of Sune, already served a god and so couldn't become a god and stayed mortal. Continuing the mirroring, this would be the lone good member, and frankly the lone woman, who like Cyric turned against the other three to oppose their terrible rise to power and godhood. Hence it's the Dark Three Plus One. |
BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2017 : 21:04:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Another coincidence - I just named something 'Thul' yesterday. How strange is that?
Maybe, before him becoming dominant in the Moonsea region, Bane had tried to control the 'Blade Kingdoms', which would have been ALL of Chessenta, pre-Chessenta. It would make sense that he had a few failures before eventually succeeding.
I still like my idea of attaching Kiputytto to the Dark Three, as a 4th 'party member' whom they betrayed and sealed-away. She would have wanted to re-attain godhood, and they would have been using her for her knowledge of 'all things divine'. I guess no-one else wanted to run with that. The party needed a healer (priest), dammit!
LOL, I don't think I'm ever going to want the lady infatuated with disease as my party priest... just sayin' |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 21 Dec 2017 21:05:44 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2017 : 03:44:53
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Well, Nothing says she did a good job, LOL. Besides, plenty of parties have evil priests that aren't good at healing. Back before they made clerics halfway decent, people preferred evil priests because they could use spells to cause damage.
And I think Kiputytto was using them as much as they were using her. Both sides planned a double-cross when they got what they wanted, and the Dark Three just struck first. Of course, Bane & Co. would have to hide this fact from Loviatar... I hear she can get very unpleasant when she's angry.
"I swear, Lov, she was right there in the back of the car when we ascended... maybe she fell out?" |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 22 Dec 2017 20:41:47 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2017 : 21:04:40
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Unther's Gods are all spawn of Tiamat. The TRUE Tiamat.
This five headed critter is a pale imitation..
Tiamat (the REAL one) created all the dragons in Sumerian/Babylonian myth...and she also created the first gods. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Mount Thulbane / Assuran / Dragons
