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 Borders of kingdoms, a youtubers views
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Starshade
Learned Scribe

Norway
186 Posts

Posted - 04 Dec 2017 :  15:23:13  Show Profile Send Starshade a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Just saw a youtube video by Matthew Colville, "Lore Vs Writing" 29:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJTGc3w93MU
On the question about what is enough prep:
quote:

- "it is different for different people"
- "As example. I tried to run the forgotten realms, a long time ago, but it did not seem a real place to me. Where is the national boundaries? Who is in charge? Is it a kingdom? Is it a Dutchy? Where is the knights the town people can complain to?


What do you guys think? Do the realms got "diffuse" borders and is a bit under developed? Or is his kind of fun just more suited different material?

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30973 Posts

Posted - 04 Dec 2017 :  19:26:09  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Forgotten Realms is a rather broad term -- it refers to a game setting, so it can be anything from the entire planet to the Heartlands/Dales/North areas that were originally detailed. And even in that more defined area, there is still a host of city-states, kingdoms, nations, and territories.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15626 Posts

Posted - 04 Dec 2017 :  19:51:30  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In the word's of our immortal orange leader - "Its HUGE!"

Thats what put people off. Instead of having a 'core' place to start your campaign (which we did, in 1e - Cormyr and/or The Dales), you can 'start anywhere', because there is enough information to do so on almost anyplace in the Realms. Now, depending on your 'style', different places fit different needs. We have Cormyr, which has all the rigid structure most folks want from a medieval kingdom, and then we have every shade in-between, to the Border Kingdoms ('robber barons') to the lawless Savage Frontier (The North). Unlike other settings that gives you a good "beginner's area" (a'la video games), every area can be adjusted to every level of play, so its a bit daunting when you are just starting out with The Forgotten Realms.

Obviously the designers recognized the problem, and tried to give us that 'start area' in 4e with putting Loudwater right at the beginning of the 4e FRCG. To many of us, Loudwater may have seemed like a weird choice, but it was for that reason - there was no preexisting 'feelings of entitlement' about that area - that allowed them to use it thusly. And in 5e, we got the SCAG. And Neverwinter.

When the maker of that video first tried to 'get into The Realms', it was probably right around the time FR was so 'messy', near the end of the 2e era, or perhaps just entering the 3e era. We weren't given a lot of 'direction' because it wasn't that kind of setting - it was the ultimate sandbox. People born in the age of video games expect a clear & precise 'path' - a linear route one is expected to take. FR has never had any such unrealistic device.

Where is the precise border of Cormyr? Why, at the end of YOUR sword, of course. Thats the part he just never got. FR is many different things to many different people, and the 'flavor' of the setting is what you mold it into.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 04 Dec 2017 19:53:07
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30973 Posts

Posted - 04 Dec 2017 :  20:43:32  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

In the word's of our immortal orange leader - "Its HUGE!"

Thats what put people off. Instead of having a 'core' place to start your campaign (which we did, in 1e - Cormyr and/or The Dales), you can 'start anywhere', because there is enough information to do so on almost anyplace in the Realms. Now, depending on your 'style', different places fit different needs. We have Cormyr, which has all the rigid structure most folks want from a medieval kingdom, and then we have every shade in-between, to the Border Kingdoms ('robber barons') to the lawless Savage Frontier (The North). Unlike other settings that gives you a good "beginner's area" (a'la video games), every area can be adjusted to every level of play, so its a bit daunting when you are just starting out with The Forgotten Realms.

Obviously the designers recognized the problem, and tried to give us that 'start area' in 4e with putting Loudwater right at the beginning of the 4e FRCG. To many of us, Loudwater may have seemed like a weird choice, but it was for that reason - there was no preexisting 'feelings of entitlement' about that area - that allowed them to use it thusly. And in 5e, we got the SCAG. And Neverwinter.

When the maker of that video first tried to 'get into The Realms', it was probably right around the time FR was so 'messy', near the end of the 2e era, or perhaps just entering the 3e era. We weren't given a lot of 'direction' because it wasn't that kind of setting - it was the ultimate sandbox. People born in the age of video games expect a clear & precise 'path' - a linear route one is expected to take. FR has never had any such unrealistic device.

Where is the precise border of Cormyr? Why, at the end of YOUR sword, of course. Thats the part he just never got. FR is many different things to many different people, and the 'flavor' of the setting is what you mold it into.



Indeed. Sharply-defined borders are more of a modern concept, and have considerably less importance in areas of sparse or no settlement.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore

Netherlands
1234 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2017 :  01:17:56  Show Profile Send Bladewind a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My campaigns in the realms have rarely had to deal with landownership or borders, just the occasional toll by bandits lords (who occasionally might be royalty or nobility).

Most settlements have clearly recognizable but generic guards, who might be drinking away their stress in the same tavern the pc's are in. Those have never proven insufficient for my needs as a DM and are a blast to roleplay.

Sometimes I admittedly try to avoid staying long in the cities, as trekking across the ruinous landscapes of Faerun and all the portals from Faerun into its beyond is the main attraction for me as a DM.

My campaign sketches

Druidic Groves

Creature Feature: Giant Spiders
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Starshade
Learned Scribe

Norway
186 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2017 :  23:41:09  Show Profile Send Starshade a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm sort of agreeing with you guys here, though I take a lot of such things for granted.
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3084 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2017 :  15:37:36  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

In the word's of our immortal orange leader - "Its HUGE!"




Interesting how instead of just saying "Trump" you decided to go with "Immortal Orange Leader."

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15626 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2017 :  16:31:50  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
When Doctor Strange and Doctor Fate visit the Realms (for the meeting of cross-time Khelbens), they are referred to as Doctors without Borders.

quote:
Originally posted by Artemas Entreri

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

In the word's of our immortal orange leader - "Its HUGE!"




Interesting how instead of just saying "Trump" you decided to go with "Immortal Orange Leader."
Interesting you find that interesting...

because my political stance is... interesting.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30973 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2017 :  18:17:15  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And let's not go any further down the political path, please.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3084 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2017 :  21:31:53  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

And let's not go any further down the political path, please.



Couldn't agree more. I get sick and tired of seeing that BS plastered everywhere else that I would prefer to not see it on Candlekeep of all places.

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
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