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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
31390 Posts

Posted - 30 Nov 2017 :  04:25:47  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
After backing a couple of their Kickstarters, I've got a small buttload of coins from Fantasy Coin LLC -- including these "Water Helm" coins, clearly inspired by Waterdhavian coins.

We know that Waterdeep has two unique coins, the taol/toal, and the harbor moon. And we know some of the details of these coins. From the FR Wiki, we know that the harbor moon is "shaped like a crescent moon and made of platinum with an electrum inlay. It had a central hole to allow it to be strung on a string." And the taol is "a square brass coin with a hole in the center to allow it to be strung on a string." (Pretty much every source that mentions the coins describes them the same way, in some cases directly copying a prior source)

Looking at the pseudo-harbor moon I have on my desk at work*, this day, I found myself wondering (not for the first time) what is actually on the Waterdhavian coins? Some of the other coins of the Realms, we have descriptions of what's on the faces of the coins -- but for the Waterdhavian ones, we don't have that. At least, so far as I can tell.

So before I reach out to Ed, is there some reference somewhere that I have missed, describing the obverse and reverse of these coins?

*(I actually made a point of getting an extra ten pack of the harbor moons, so I could do things like that with them. One is on my desk at work, one is in the dice bag I take to Gen Con, one resides in the pockets of whatever pants I wear when I go out and about, one is hanging from a suede cord from the rearview mirror of my car, and I've given a couple away, too)

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moonbeast
Senior Scribe

USA
467 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2017 :  06:51:09  Show Profile Send moonbeast a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I bought "gold bars" from them a while back…. used as a prop in my games. Of course, when you need larger denominations, it doesn't make sense for the Noble NPC to reward the adventurers (for slaying a local giant chieftain) with several chests of coins…. when a few gold bars will do. So the gold bars makes a great prop for a DM.

But avoid accidentally dropping it on your Player's foot. It's quite painful that way.

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7374 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2017 :  12:08:39  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

After backing a couple of their Kickstarters, I've got a small buttload of coins from Fantasy Coin LLC -- including these "Water Helm" coins, clearly inspired by Waterdhavian coins.

We know that Waterdeep has two unique coins, the taol/toal, and the harbor moon. And we know some of the details of these coins. From the FR Wiki, we know that the harbor moon is "shaped like a crescent moon and made of platinum with an electrum inlay. It had a central hole to allow it to be strung on a string." And the taol is "a square brass coin with a hole in the center to allow it to be strung on a string." (Pretty much every source that mentions the coins describes them the same way, in some cases directly copying a prior source)

Looking at the pseudo-harbor moon I have on my desk at work*, this day, I found myself wondering (not for the first time) what is actually on the Waterdhavian coins? Some of the other coins of the Realms, we have descriptions of what's on the faces of the coins -- but for the Waterdhavian ones, we don't have that. At least, so far as I can tell.

So before I reach out to Ed, is there some reference somewhere that I have missed, describing the obverse and reverse of these coins?

*(I actually made a point of getting an extra ten pack of the harbor moons, so I could do things like that with them. One is on my desk at work, one is in the dice bag I take to Gen Con, one resides in the pockets of whatever pants I wear when I go out and about, one is hanging from a suede cord from the rearview mirror of my car, and I've given a couple away, too)



Yes, look at the Lords of Waterdeep game. They specifically have Taols and harbor moons as cardboard cutouts. Pictures of them at this site.

http://carpegm.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/LOWcoins.jpg

There's also some other unofficial coins as well. 10 harbor moons and 50 taols for $60 (kinda pricey, but they are pretty). In fact, just like how our quarters have different pictures on them, there may be different versions of the harbor moons struck every three decades or so (although I guess with things like a mending spell, they don't need to make new stamps periodically like we do in real world... unless of course we say that gradual wear and tear through use isn't something mending repairs (it makes repairs but not fine details)... which is easy to believe).

Honkin' big link

Mod edit: Shortened the honkin' big link with a URL tag.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 19 Dec 2017 15:03:48
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7374 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2017 :  12:27:04  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
By the way Wooly, what are you planning to do with your coins? Personally, I've been playing with the idea of taking them all and displaying two of each coin to show both sides. I was going to put them in a shadow box with names printed below each and assigning them as if they were specific to certain parts of the realms. Then, I was thinking about making smaller similar collections to give to friends.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31390 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2017 :  19:51:21  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

After backing a couple of their Kickstarters, I've got a small buttload of coins from Fantasy Coin LLC -- including these "Water Helm" coins, clearly inspired by Waterdhavian coins.

We know that Waterdeep has two unique coins, the taol/toal, and the harbor moon. And we know some of the details of these coins. From the FR Wiki, we know that the harbor moon is "shaped like a crescent moon and made of platinum with an electrum inlay. It had a central hole to allow it to be strung on a string." And the taol is "a square brass coin with a hole in the center to allow it to be strung on a string." (Pretty much every source that mentions the coins describes them the same way, in some cases directly copying a prior source)

Looking at the pseudo-harbor moon I have on my desk at work*, this day, I found myself wondering (not for the first time) what is actually on the Waterdhavian coins? Some of the other coins of the Realms, we have descriptions of what's on the faces of the coins -- but for the Waterdhavian ones, we don't have that. At least, so far as I can tell.

So before I reach out to Ed, is there some reference somewhere that I have missed, describing the obverse and reverse of these coins?

*(I actually made a point of getting an extra ten pack of the harbor moons, so I could do things like that with them. One is on my desk at work, one is in the dice bag I take to Gen Con, one resides in the pockets of whatever pants I wear when I go out and about, one is hanging from a suede cord from the rearview mirror of my car, and I've given a couple away, too)



Yes, look at the Lords of Waterdeep game. They specifically have Taols and harbor moons as cardboard cutouts. Pictures of them at this site.

http://carpegm.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/LOWcoins.jpg

There's also some other unofficial coins as well. 10 harbor moons and 50 taols for $60 (kinda pricey, but they are pretty). In fact, just like how our quarters have different pictures on them, there may be different versions of the harbor moons struck every three decades or so (although I guess with things like a mending spell, they don't need to make new stamps periodically like we do in real world... unless of course we say that gradual wear and tear through use isn't something mending repairs (it makes repairs but not fine details)... which is easy to believe).

Honkin' big link





Considering that some of the artwork for that game is not all that great -- if not flat out wrong* -- I'm not going to assume that the depiction of the coins is accurate. I don't even recognize the script on the coins... And what's with the tentacles?

(The Broken Token coins don't look like the ones in the game, either!)

*Kyriani came from the comics. Her appearance is quite well established and very easy to look up. She may be a half-drow, but she looks like a regular half-elf. She does not look like a drow, and originally didn't even know she was a half-drow!

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 19 Dec 2017 15:04:17
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31390 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2017 :  19:54:39  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

By the way Wooly, what are you planning to do with your coins? Personally, I've been playing with the idea of taking them all and displaying two of each coin to show both sides. I was going to put them in a shadow box with names printed below each and assigning them as if they were specific to certain parts of the realms. Then, I was thinking about making smaller similar collections to give to friends.



At the moment, I just have them because they are cool.

I've gotten several sets of those coins from Fantasy Coin, and I have no real use for them. I just think well-done fantasy-style coins are really nifty.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
31390 Posts

Posted - 19 Dec 2017 :  15:00:36  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So I decided to ping Ed directly, and much to my surprise, had a response within minutes.

In addition to wondering what was on the faces, it occurred to me to ask how the faces were referenced -- heads/tails or obverse/reverse, etc.

quote:
Here's my root lore on Sword Coast mintings:

Silverymoon:
Copper: glint
Silver: shield
Electrum: sword (older term: bluesword [[electrum coins of Silver Marches minting always have, and have had, a blue tint]])
Gold: dragon
Platinum: unicorn
“Specials”:
Moon: worth 2 gp in Silverymoon and throughout the Silver Marches, valued at 1 gp elsewhere; gold crescentiform coin stamped with the wavy line of the river (that bisects the city) on one side, and three many-pointed stars on the other.
Moon (older sort): worth 1 gp in Silverymoon and throughout the Silver Marches, but half that elsewhere; shiny blue crescentiform coin stamped the same as the newer moon; no longer officially minted, but it’s rumored that someone in the city is quietly producing them.

Waterdeep:
Copper: nib
Silver: shard
Electrum: sambar (older terms: sandar, serpent)
Gold: dragon
Platinum: sun
“Specials”:
Toal (or “Taol” in earlier centuries): worth 2gp in the city but practically worthless elsewhere; a square brass coin with a hole in the center to allow it to be strung on a string.
Harbor moon: worth 50gp in the city but 2 gp elsewhere; a crescentiform coin of platinum inset with an oval of electrum stamped with the arms of Waterdeep (used for bulk purchases as an alternative to heavier and bulkier tradebars, and more fragile gems).

SILVERYMOON (all coins are pierced by a small round hole in the center, so coins can be strung together on wire or cord):
Copper: glint (arrowhead-shaped, copper-hued triangle with two many-pointed stars in a line down one side, and a wavy line of the river down the other, crossed by an arch [representing the Moonbridge])

Silver: shield (a shield-shaped silver-hued coin [point in center of bottom, “flat” top, matching curved sides] with the same stamped markings as a glint, except that it bears a line of three many-pointed stars down the center of the shield)

Electrum: sword (an oval, shiny blue-tinted coin bearing the same stamped markings as a glint, except that one of its sides bears an arc-shaped curve of four many-pointed stars)

Gold: dragon (a gold-hued coin shaped like a stylized dragon’s head [side-on shape of open six-fanged jaws-alligator head with a row of seven small points along its “top”] bearing the same stamped markings as a glint)

Platinum: unicorn (a bright-silver-hued coin shaped like the head of a unicorn [horn-in-forehead horse’s head, side-on] bearing the same stamped markings as a glint)

WATERDEEP (no coins of current minting, except the specials, are pierced):
Copper: nib (large slender oval with a tail [tall, narrow, filled-in letter “Q,” so, a thinnish oval with a curving “ell” at one end] stamped on one side with the arms of Waterdeep, and on the other with a stylized Mount Waterdeep [triangle rising from wavy line representing the sea])

Silver: shard (“thin, long” arrowhead-shaped silver-hued coin stamped with the same markings as a nib)

Electrum: sambar (tadpole-shaped [oval with a wide three-bend-wiggle serpentine tail] silvery-blue-hued coin stamped with the same markings as a nib)

Gold: dragon (oval with four in-curved talons protruding from one arc of its edge [curved back inwards to minimize catching on things] in shape, gold-hued coin stamped with the same markings as a nib)

Platinum: sun (large round shiny-metallic ale-brown-hued coin stamped with the same markings as nib)

NOTE: the “standard” (as opposed to “special”) coins of Silverymoon are all about the same size, whereas the nib and sun of Waterdeep are noticeably larger than other Waterdhavian coins.

Nib: arms of Waterdeep face (the “front”) is “the blazon” and the stylized Mount Waterdeep face is “the mountains”

Shard: faces and their names are the same as the nib

Sambar: faces and their names are the same as the nib

Dragon: faces and their names are the same as the nib

Platinum: faces and their names are the same as the nib

Taol: (varies by minting) any face that has the moons and stars around a central ring (around the central piercing) is the “front,” and known as “the worth” (it may or may not have a “one” numeral), and the obverse (“back”) usually has a pattern of parallel wavy lines (the waves in Waterdeep harbor) and is known as “the wet”

Harbor Moon: (varies by minting) the face that has two figures (which vary by minting, but are often two ships, of the heads of two walking statues) facing inwards, towards each other and the central piercing hole (and its ring surround), is the “front” and is known as “the splendor,” whereas the obverse or “back” face usually has a radiating-rays “sun” circle surrounding the central piercing hole and its ring, often with mint marks (writing) on it, the rest of the crescent being filled with a “50” marking and with either waves or tentacles to denote the sea, and is known as the “fair sailing” (Waterdeep’s prosperity being built on its harbor and shipping, and the sun shining on the sea denoting good conditions for voyaging)

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5235 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2017 :  02:56:45  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wow, how did it take so long to not know this lore. Thanks Ed, you're the best.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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The Masked Mage
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USA
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Posted - 20 Dec 2017 :  03:27:42  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Most of the Waterdeep coins have been pictured in old books over the years. Obviously these are slightly different than the descriptions from Ed there. Wooly - still not possible to put pictures here yes?
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
31390 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2017 :  03:34:21  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

Most of the Waterdeep coins have been pictured in old books over the years. Obviously these are slightly different than the descriptions from Ed there. Wooly - still not possible to put pictures here yes?



You can post links to pics, as Sleyvas did. The Lords of Waterdeep coins are not terribly far from what Ed described.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
31390 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2017 :  03:39:43  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Wow, how did it take so long to not know this lore. Thanks Ed, you're the best.

-- George Krashos



As much as I'm a Waterdeep junkie and have been for years, it didn't occur to me to even think about Waterdhavian coins until I was bored and had a Waterdeep-inspired coin in hand. Aside from gathering and spending them, most of us simply never think too much about coins whilst our minds are in the Realms.

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The Masked Mage
Master of Realmslore

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Posted - 20 Dec 2017 :  04:02:41  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Only time ever thought much about coinage possibilities was in an old Dragon article called Gem Of The North where he described some unique coins, like liquid ones and animated ones, etc.
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7374 Posts

Posted - 21 Dec 2017 :  15:18:22  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Animated coin constructs..... instilled with the ability to perform a single teleport per day, or the ability to roll themselves... returning to their masters.... Hell, this could make for an interesting use of the spell that animates items. They might leave a person's belt pouch in the middle of the night.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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