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Cards77
Senior Scribe

USA
557 Posts

Posted - 26 Nov 2017 :  01:15:27  Show Profile Send Cards77 a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
I'm very sad that the DMs guild seems to be useless to me.

I can't figure out if I'm totally missing the point, or it's all just 5e centric.

I'm one of those old grumpy nerds that can't get past 3e. All my games are in 1350 to 1370ish.

I thought when the DMs guild came out that our dreams had come true. Here is a platform for all of the old Grognards to release our dream sourcebooks (like Jeremy's High Forest material) and the countless amazing documents that George and others have hidden away.

But, that doesn't appear to have happened at all. Everything is post Sundering and Spellplauge.

I have found ZERO documents of use in the DMs Guild for Forgotten Realms.

Is it just me? What is wrong? Is this DMs guild thing working as intended?

Am I missing the point? I've frustrated by this for some time.

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30431 Posts

Posted - 26 Nov 2017 :  05:29:57  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You have two options:

1) Get over your grognardishness and look at the material that's there. There is a lot of good stuff, and most of it could be readily modified to another ruleset. And some of it does include stuff for earlier rulesets, alongside the stuff for the current ruleset.

2) Continue in your grognardishness and never again get anything Realms-related, because there's no way WotC is going to do anything other than keep moving forward with the current ruleset and timeline.

I do get where you're coming from -- my personal Realms, if I ever DM, is going to deviate from canon starting on 1 Hammer 1372 -- the day of the 3E FRCS. However, that's not going to stop me from mining from whatever I can, regardless of the intended era or ruleset.

The current Realms is not what I think the Realms should be, but I've stopped complaining because it won't accomplish anything productive.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 05 Dec 2017 09:49:54
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Cards77
Senior Scribe

USA
557 Posts

Posted - 27 Nov 2017 :  15:31:48  Show Profile Send Cards77 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

You have two options:

1) Get over your grognardishness and look at the material that's there. There is a lot of good stuff, and most of it could be readily modified to another ruleset. And some of it does include stuff for earlier rulesets, alongside the stuff for the current ruleset.

2) Continue in your grognardishness and never again get anything Realms-related, because there's no way WotC is going to do anything other than keep moving forward with the current ruleset and timeline.

I do get where your coming from -- my personal Realms, if I ever DM, is going to deviate from canon starting on 1 Hammer 1372 -- the day of the 3E FRCS. However, that's not going to stop me from mining from whatever I can, regardless of the intended era or ruleset.

The current Realms is not what I think the Realms should be, but I've stopped complaining because it won't accomplish anything productive.



I'm asking because I have been looking and I just can't find anything useful.

Could you mention a few things you've found particularly good/useful for 2/3e? I've yet to find anything but old reprints.

I'm not really sure what else you would be talking about since if the material is for 4/5e, by default any sourcebooks would be out of context in our games.

I asked because I genuinely do not know. When I look all I see is reprints of the 1/2/3e material.
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3602 Posts

Posted - 27 Nov 2017 :  15:53:05  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Never give up on your old grognardiness. Unfortunately you are not going to see anything for the old realms again because the old realms are only known to us grognards and the newbies only learn about nu-realms. As a result even people like George will have to do nu-realms in order to get newbies to buy whatever awesomeness he's making, thankfully the old grognards are resisting and clinging on to the good version of the realms.

Ill gladly stay an old grognard with you, im not going anywhere near nu-realms and will continue to make my little rewrites an alternate versions of the old realms.

Stay strong, stick to your old grognard ways and start making your own lore

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
6219 Posts

Posted - 27 Nov 2017 :  20:05:11  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As Wooly says, there is stuff there. I too favor 3e, but I have begun to see it has some serious flaws at a core level in the math it uses. That's the one thing that 5e has going for it in my book (not that there aren't others... having a limited number of magic items that you can have is a good thing). Unfortunately, also in my book there's a LOT of rules that are needed for 5e that haven't been built yet, and some of us have been trying to do that.... but real life gets in the way. However, the 3e FR campaign material is mostly fine (there were some discrepancies, but there always are).

Look for stuff by George Krashos, as I think he has a few things that are edition independent. I've also got up some waterdhavian heraldry that's edition independent.

BTW, what kind of stuff are you looking for for 3e? Candlekeep has some stuff some of the people here wrote up, such as prestige classes, etc.. that you may find of interest.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4949 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2017 :  09:36:02  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cards77

I'm very sad that the DMs guild seems to be useless to me.

I can't figure out if I'm totally missing the point, or it's all just 5e centric.

I'm one of those old grumpy nerds that can't get past 3e. All my games are in 1350 to 1370ish.

I thought when the DMs guild came out that our dreams had come true. Here is a platform for all of the old Grognards to release our dream sourcebooks (like Jeremy's High Forest material) and the countless amazing documents that George and others have hidden away.

But, that doesn't appear to have happened at all. Everything is post Sundering and Spellplauge.

I have found ZERO documents of use in the DMs Guild for Forgotten Realms.

Is it just me? What is wrong? Is this DMs guild thing working as intended?

Am I missing the point? I've frustrated by this for some time.



Hi Cards77

I just deleted three paragraphs of explaining why I haven't done much with the DMs Guild because it sounded like griping. Which it was.

The reasons are many, but in personal term, I lead a busy life and am time poor - like most people. My leisure time is devoted to a range of things, but chiefly the Realms. I am not Ed Greenwood-prolific. If anything I am a slogger in terms of output and flit from project to project oftentime. I'm also a perfectionist when it comes to this stuff and find that one path often takes my down a handful of others. Just the other day I was trying to sort out the Tethyrian royal line post-Spellplague and found myself backfilling holes in the lives of Khelben Arunsun, explaining bits of the existing Tethyrian lineage, touching base with the Mage Royals of Impiltur and then trying to work out just where the Red Wizards opened their portals during the Orcgates Affair in 955 DR.

Along the way I'm cataloguing bits of realmslore for rainy days on various topics, and keeping an eye out for references on a few secret, person FR projects I have on the go all at once.

I've found I don't get much of a kick out of putting stuff up at the DMs Guilld but have at least a dozen half-formed releases for the place. Maybe by early next year some will reach a publishable stage, but I'm not sure that more than 25 or so people really care. Whilst I like brightening up the day of those 25 people, it's a lot of effort for very little return.

Then again, I've released a special "something" for the last 4 or so Candlekeep Seminars at GENCON and received little back in the way of discussion, feedback etc. So I guess it's the prevailing trend.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 28 Nov 2017 09:38:08
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BrennonGoldeye
Acolyte

3 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2017 :  14:39:15  Show Profile Send BrennonGoldeye a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Cards77

I understand where you are coming from. Having been through all the boxes, variations and editions I have settled in 3.5. As much as I appreciate the continued work of WotC, my AD&D died when they decided to use the old chestnut of making all your books and products obsolete so you can spend another 100(or in my case about 600)on a reprint of the important stuff(lore) and new mechanics that a parsnip could follow. I've heard the long low moans of "Why do you need a character that's so complicated? It makes it much simpler and each character is unique. Once you reach 20th level your basically a God anyway so time to start over!" and it makes me wanna puke. There, I whined enough for me and George both.

As to your request for info that is before the Spellplague I know Lord Karsus and George have both put work in on Lore that would take weeks to read. Believe it or not just Google search a specific area in the realms and you will most likely come up with several sites with their lore. Stay strong in your grognardishness. Stranger Things has me running 2 groups of newbies and they were allowed to decide what edition they wanted. Both picked 3 because its simply the best and most workable version that allows full individualization and choice. I hope you find what you are looking for and always remember to ask for something specific, you never know when one of the Honored Sages here will have exactly what you need.
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Zeromaru X
Senior Scribe

Colombia
854 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2017 :  15:47:42  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I guess I have a terrible google-fu, then. Because its easier to find pre-Spellplague stuff (you just has to type "Forgotten Realms" in Google) than post-Spellplague stuff...

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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Cards77
Senior Scribe

USA
557 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2017 :  23:43:56  Show Profile Send Cards77 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the replies. I guess my problem isn't unique and it's not just about rules. It's about lore.

Part of my issue seems to be how DM's Guild deals (or doesn't deal) with edition/system. I'm not finding edition agnostic sourcebooks with FR lore.

Also, seems like what I'm looking for isn't going to happen (ie George, Jeremy and others releasing their awesome 3e lore).

I'm confused by that.

If you guys have valuable lore sitting there that you've spent work and time on, why not get something out of it?

I thought this was why they made the DMs Guild? To give designers and authors like you a venue to continue to produce lore for "your Realms".

I think you're underestimating your worth, and the response you may get.

Just charge what you need to charge to make it worth it. I know I would pay just about any price and I've said so before.

There are A LOT more DMs out there still in the 1/2/3 time line than you think. The DMs guild is the only means to reach them and get something for your talent and hard work.
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Zeromaru X
Senior Scribe

Colombia
854 Posts

Posted - 29 Nov 2017 :  01:34:47  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
IIRC, the DM's Guild only works with 5th edition rules. I remember having read that in the site's FAQ. So, while you can find edition agnostic lore in DM's Guild, you will not find any fan-stuff related to an earlier edition, because legally, you can only publish stuff related with 5e rules.

I have found some stuff that has nothing to do with the current timeline (ie. George's excellent Impiltur products), but as Dazzler said, people playing 5e wants lore of the current timeline. That's pretty normal, really. People who have their campaigns in the older timeline usually play with older edition's rules. So, most people playing 5e have their games in the post-Spellplague Realms. And DM's Guild is for people playing 5e.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 29 Nov 2017 01:45:08
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Martinsky
Seeker

Canada
34 Posts

Posted - 29 Nov 2017 :  05:34:07  Show Profile Send Martinsky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well I played first in 2ed but 3ed3.5ed are where I really begin. I wont talk of 4ed as I didnt read much and I just begin to have some interest to the new 5ed. Some of the book are real awesone like Volo guide to Monster. But that not the point I want bring, it more that even if timeline and edition going foreward it did not stop for going through previous edition. Some book in 2ed are hard to beat and even if I started and use mostly 3.5 I found some of 2ed real usefull.
They have to few book like Unaprochable-East, Silver-Marches and Shining south of 3ed. That bad they stopped the edition before convering more region. Lord of Darkness was pretty awesone too. But when I found EMpire of shining sea 2ed, I was like wow this one of best ever. It dont miss much and you have almost all you need or want for Calimshan before spell-plague.
I hope you understand my point, leaving behind those old edition may be I bad marketing image they project. Like past edition are dont worth much, so what to think of the present edition. That project some kind of marketing based on re-edition and remake. I know it have some good point to always going forward, mostly for history progression.
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Arivia
Great Reader

Canada
2887 Posts

Posted - 04 Dec 2017 :  18:39:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm in the same boat as most of this scroll: I'm most comfortable and familiar with the 3e Realms and ruleset there, so I'm not really interested in 5e stuff for 5e's sake. 5e is a really bad system, both from an objective design standpoint and a personal standpoint, so I don't run it.

That said, I do agree with the others - it's worth checking out some of the 5e content and DM's Guild stuff. I've bought George's releases, those were great; same for Ed's and so on. I can get plenty of use out of those even if I'm not playing in what is it now, 1481 DR?

I'm like Wooly, basically - I started my current Realms game on Shieldmeet 1372 DR, since that's the official starting date for the 3e Realms, and I'm knocking down a lot of stuff that I've wanted to use. I'm using Pathfinder because that's the most polished, best version of the 3e rules I like and my players enjoy. It's not the objectively best version of D&D, but it's what I'm comfortable with and that's fine.

I'm gradually building up a library of conversions and new content I've been creating to use in my game, and I've been debating sharing those conversions. Not sure how much interest there would be, and there's no commercial market for it, but that's fine.

I'm figuring out my prefered take on the rules and how I want to handle things, and my games run pretty close to soft broken-in gloves, just right how I want them to. I'm becoming that grognard with the house rules binder who's figured out specifically how they like running their games, and I'm okay with that!

One nice thing about running Pathfinder is that there's still new rules being released for it that are compatible with everything else I'm doing. Just in the middle of typing this post a delivery of Book of the Damned and Ultimate Wilderness arrived, and I can use those right-out in the game I'm already running.

So yes I wish there was more 3e Realms content, sure. I wish that kind of stuff could be on the DM's Guild, that would be nice. But it won't be, and that's fine because I have a lifetime's worth of stuff to play with already.
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R P Davis
Seeker

USA
17 Posts

Posted - 04 Dec 2017 :  22:02:18  Show Profile  Visit R P Davis's Homepage Send R P Davis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cards77Part of my issue seems to be how DM's Guild deals (or doesn't deal) with edition/system. I'm not finding edition agnostic sourcebooks with FR lore.


I'm commenting as someone who regularly releases content on DMs Guild.

Releasing content on DMs Guild is contingent on licensing. The Guild is run by OneBookShop, the same gang which run DriveThruRPG. They have a special relationship with Wizards to offer very relaxed licensing of Wizards IP. Simply put, you can use any Wizards IP to produce 5e content set in the Forgotten Realms or Ravenloft. Also, when you place something on the Guild, you agree that another Guild creator can use your content in their derivative work. It's a vibrant community building sometimes awesome (sometimes awful) content.

This makes sense. It gives Wizards and OBS an exclusive venue to offer community-created content to consumers of the Realms and 5e; they also use it to "audition" independent writers to develop more canonical work under the Wizards official banner.

Wizards' current focus is the Realms and 5e. Given that focus, it should come as no surprise that there's no room for anything else on the platform which gives easy, unfettered access to otherwise exclusive Wizards IP.

That said, you can place setting-agnostic material on the Guild, provided it can easily be dropped into the Realms and uses 5e mechanics. The Guild is more than Realms-centric; it's 5e-centric. That shouldn't be surprising. 5e is the current system. There's no reason on earth to imagine that Wizards would want to support old systems with easy licensing.

Interestingly, I make a significant fraction of my Guild income by converting grognard modules to 5e rules. I just finished a conversion guide for Castle Spulzeer.

quote:
Also, seems like what I'm looking for isn't going to happen (ie George, Jeremy and others releasing their awesome 3e lore).

I'm confused by that.

If you guys have valuable lore sitting there that you've spent work and time on, why not get something out of it?

I thought this was why they made the DMs Guild? To give designers and authors like you a venue to continue to produce lore for "your Realms".


That's not why they made the DMs Guild. They made the DMs Guild to make money, first of all. Any other reasoning is nice and all, but at the end of the day it's about making money.

Second of all, the venue you're thinking of already existed and still exists in DTRPG and other OGL-material distribution sites. As long as the material conforms to the OGL, whether it's a new setting using 5e rules, or bits of something else using the 3e OGL, it's legal. I don't know if "Forgotten Realms" and specific Realms-based IP are restricted in the grognard OGLs; if so, that makes releasing non-5e material problematic.

The difference is the Guild doesn't require conforming to any OGL and everywhere else (including the Guild's sister sites) does.

quote:
The DMs guild is the only means to reach them and get something for your talent and hard work.


Except that it isn't.

I think your gripe is based on slightly out-of-whack expectations of what you thought the Guild was supposed to be, more than any inherent fault in the Guild. If you went there expecting grognard content, that's on you, my friend. It has never, to my certain knowledge, been advertised as anything but 5e, and there is precisely zero reason to think there might be non-5e content on it.

Cheers,

Bob
www.r-p-davis.com
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R P Davis
Seeker

USA
17 Posts

Posted - 04 Dec 2017 :  22:23:35  Show Profile  Visit R P Davis's Homepage Send R P Davis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's also worth noting that nobody's stopping anyone from putting pre-Spellplague material on the Guild. The year DR is completely immaterial. If you want to write an adventure when Waterdeep was still called Nimoar's Hold, knock yourself out. It just has to use the 5e rules, per the Guild T&C.

Yeah, most Guild content is 5e. Makes sense, really, especially if you want approach it seriously as a revenue generator. You want to release content when Wizards drop the next hardback campaign. Chult has been the focus for the past six months or so, thanks to Tomb of Annihilation. Players and DMs want 3rd-party content to enhance their games.

And as I noted in my previous comment, there's a cadre of us who are creating 5e conversion guides for Olde Schole adventure content.

You're not finding "edition-agnostic sourcebooks with FR lore" because as Mr Krashos notes, there's precious little market for it. The amount of people who really care about FR lore is incredibly small, and they're all reading Candlekeep. They're certainly not willing to part with money to get it.

It's a shame, but there it is.

Now I have to get something off my chest, and this is directed at everyone who might read this. I don't understand the animosity toward 5e, or indeed any specific ruleset. Or period of Realms history. Does it make your favorite edition better to sneer at others? Does it make you feel superior to call lore after a certain arbitrary point "nu-realms" or some other insulting epithet? Those were rhetorical questions, by the by.

Cheers,

Bob
www.r-p-davis.com
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14555 Posts

Posted - 04 Dec 2017 :  23:09:52  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I hated 4e, because it didn't feel like D&D to me. However, 5e feels much more like (old school) D&D than 3e did, to me.

I guess people who are stuck in 3e like the world-juggling, 37-PrC, "I can do anything an NPC can" powerPCs. AS a DM, I am glad that monumental overhead of purposeless design is gone (NO, you are NOT allowed to create your own artifacts, etc, and I don't have to write-up a 3 page NPC baddie for a 10-minute encounter). 5e is more about the play, then the encounters, which 4e went way too heavy on, IMO. Like I said, it seems like the perfect mix, and it put most of the control back into the DMs hands, as it should be (and as it was, in OD&D, 1e, & 2e).

I want to tell a story, and I want my players to be able live-through and affect that story. As Gygax himself is credited with saying, "The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." 3e got away from that vision... ran amok, actually. 4e hacked a lot of the excessiveness out, but in the wrong direction (once again, IMO). Just give me a stage (my players are the actors), and I can write my own script. The dice rolling is just to give the players something physical they can hold on to*... we've never really needed it, and I've played in games where there wasn't ANY.


*the dice-rolling is a sham. Always was. I know thats going to annoy a lot of people, but NOTHING happens in a D&D game that a DM doesn't want to happen. Its a parlor trick - like what a magician does when he is trying to distract you from what he is really doing.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 04 Dec 2017 23:12:01
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Zeromaru X
Senior Scribe

Colombia
854 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2017 :  00:24:12  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In my table, pizza has more power than dice.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
473 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2017 :  01:24:36  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
All that said by those above, if you are still playing an early edition, you can find almost all of the old products (and likely eventually all of them) for sale digitally and sometimes in print format on DM's Guild, so if you are missing something from back in the day, it's available.
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Cards77
Senior Scribe

USA
557 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2017 :  03:31:33  Show Profile Send Cards77 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by R P Davis

quote:
Originally posted by Cards77Part of my issue seems to be how DM's Guild deals (or doesn't deal) with edition/system. I'm not finding edition agnostic sourcebooks with FR lore.


I'm commenting as someone who regularly releases content on DMs Guild.

Releasing content on DMs Guild is contingent on licensing. The Guild is run by OneBookShop, the same gang which run DriveThruRPG. They have a special relationship with Wizards to offer very relaxed licensing of Wizards IP. Simply put, you can use any Wizards IP to produce 5e content set in the Forgotten Realms or Ravenloft. Also, when you place something on the Guild, you agree that another Guild creator can use your content in their derivative work. It's a vibrant community building sometimes awesome (sometimes awful) content.

This makes sense. It gives Wizards and OBS an exclusive venue to offer community-created content to consumers of the Realms and 5e; they also use it to "audition" independent writers to develop more canonical work under the Wizards official banner.

Wizards' current focus is the Realms and 5e. Given that focus, it should come as no surprise that there's no room for anything else on the platform which gives easy, unfettered access to otherwise exclusive Wizards IP.

That said, you can place setting-agnostic material on the Guild, provided it can easily be dropped into the Realms and uses 5e mechanics. The Guild is more than Realms-centric; it's 5e-centric. That shouldn't be surprising. 5e is the current system. There's no reason on earth to imagine that Wizards would want to support old systems with easy licensing.

Interestingly, I make a significant fraction of my Guild income by converting grognard modules to 5e rules. I just finished a conversion guide for Castle Spulzeer.

quote:
Also, seems like what I'm looking for isn't going to happen (ie George, Jeremy and others releasing their awesome 3e lore).

I'm confused by that.

If you guys have valuable lore sitting there that you've spent work and time on, why not get something out of it?

I thought this was why they made the DMs Guild? To give designers and authors like you a venue to continue to produce lore for "your Realms".


That's not why they made the DMs Guild. They made the DMs Guild to make money, first of all. Any other reasoning is nice and all, but at the end of the day it's about making money.

Second of all, the venue you're thinking of already existed and still exists in DTRPG and other OGL-material distribution sites. As long as the material conforms to the OGL, whether it's a new setting using 5e rules, or bits of something else using the 3e OGL, it's legal. I don't know if "Forgotten Realms" and specific Realms-based IP are restricted in the grognard OGLs; if so, that makes releasing non-5e material problematic.

The difference is the Guild doesn't require conforming to any OGL and everywhere else (including the Guild's sister sites) does.

quote:
The DMs guild is the only means to reach them and get something for your talent and hard work.


Except that it isn't.

I think your gripe is based on slightly out-of-whack expectations of what you thought the Guild was supposed to be, more than any inherent fault in the Guild. If you went there expecting grognard content, that's on you, my friend. It has never, to my certain knowledge, been advertised as anything but 5e, and there is precisely zero reason to think there might be non-5e content on it.



That's why I posted here duh. Obviously the Guid wasn't what I thought it was. No I didn't dig into the T&Cs, why would I?

So I can't have any other perception other than what I had which was that the DM's Guild was sold to me as way for authors to "make their own Realms". I didn't know it was 5e only.

It's interesting you said it can only be 5e content on there, but that's false. There's tons of 3e content on there (reprints), and plenty of fan generated 3e rules content, it's just not Realms specific.

I see the real reason for the DMG now, except a few things don't make any sense.

1) If what you say is true that only 5e is allowed...why? What is the threat of people continuing to make 3e lore?

2) Because b) as you claim only a few of us nerds on here care right?

So what is the threat from a few nerds continuing to produce a few 3e or rules agnostic lorebooks for pocket change?

Why do they care about licensing for a few nerds still using old, dead rulesets?

You say this is what DTRPG is for?

Any examples you could share? I'd love to be able to find what I'm looking for. All I've been able to find on there is reprints and a few fan generated maps. I'm not finding any Pathfinder or OGL content or any lore really specific to the Realms.

I feel like we're talking past each other a bit. You seem to be talking about WotC branded material, while I'm talking about ..I guess fan generated lore? Not sure what the proper term is.




Edited by - Cards77 on 05 Dec 2017 03:34:05
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Cards77
Senior Scribe

USA
557 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2017 :  03:57:39  Show Profile Send Cards77 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I hated 4e, because it didn't feel like D&D to me. However, 5e feels much more like (old school) D&D than 3e did, to me.

I guess people who are stuck in 3e like the world-juggling, 37-PrC, "I can do anything an NPC can" powerPCs. AS a DM, I am glad that monumental overhead of purposeless design is gone (NO, you are NOT allowed to create your own artifacts, etc, and I don't have to write-up a 3 page NPC baddie for a 10-minute encounter). 5e is more about the play, then the encounters, which 4e went way too heavy on, IMO. Like I said, it seems like the perfect mix, and it put most of the control back into the DMs hands, as it should be (and as it was, in OD&D, 1e, & 2e).

I want to tell a story, and I want my players to be able live-through and affect that story. As Gygax himself is credited with saying, "The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." 3e got away from that vision... ran amok, actually. 4e hacked a lot of the excessiveness out, but in the wrong direction (once again, IMO). Just give me a stage (my players are the actors), and I can write my own script. The dice rolling is just to give the players something physical they can hold on to*... we've never really needed it, and I've played in games where there wasn't ANY.


*the dice-rolling is a sham. Always was. I know thats going to annoy a lot of people, but NOTHING happens in a D&D game that a DM doesn't want to happen. Its a parlor trick - like what a magician does when he is trying to distract you from what he is really doing.



That was a pretty above average troll. You almost got me to bite.
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R P Davis
Seeker

USA
17 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2017 :  12:10:05  Show Profile  Visit R P Davis's Homepage Send R P Davis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cards77


That's why I posted here duh. Obviously the Guid wasn't what I thought it was. No I didn't dig into the T&Cs, why would I?

Never said you should.

quote:
It's interesting you said it can only be 5e content on there, but that's false. There's tons of 3e content on there (reprints), and plenty of fan generated 3e rules content, it's just not Realms specific.

The Guild allows community-created content to be either

1. rules-agnostic Realms information -or-

2. setting-agnostic content with 5e mechanics which can be dropped into the Realms.

Any non-5e, setting-agnostic material is uploaded in defiance of the creator T&C.

While there is non-5e, non-Realms content on the Guild, it's not community-created or "fan-generated" content. It's WotC property, digital "reprints" of old material.

quote:
1) If what you say is true that only 5e is allowed...why? What is the threat of people continuing to make 3e lore?

It's not a matter of threat. Grognards aren't a threat to Wizards. If they were, Wizards would never have released an OGL in the first place, and would be aggressively pursuing those who use their IP without permission. They'd be attempting to suppress the OSR. They're not doing that. At all.

No, it's a matter of being specific. The Guild community is restricted to 5e and Realms/Ravenloft. That's the tradeoff for having such easy, unfettered access to really valuable IP. It's a massive community of talented individuals making content for a game they love.

As I pointed out, there are other sites - run by the same company which runs the Guild - which have oodles of OSR D&D material released under the pre-5e OGLs.

quote:
2) Because b) as you claim only a few of us nerds on here care right?

It wasn't my claim. It was George Krashos's. I agreed with it. Hell, I'm one of the few people who actually bought George's Guild offerings.

quote:
You say this is what DTRPG is for? Any examples you could share? I'd love to be able to find what I'm looking for. All I've been able to find on there is reprints and a few fan generated maps. I'm not finding any Pathfinder or OGL content or any lore really specific to the Realms.

I said DTRPG is for OGL content. And there's plenty of it:

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse.php?filters=1120_0_0_0_0

You're not going to find Realmslore there, though, because the OGLs only cover the game engine IP, not setting IP.

quote:
I feel like we're talking past each other a bit. You seem to be talking about WotC branded material, while I'm talking about ..I guess fan generated lore? Not sure what the proper term is.

If I'm understanding you, you want new Realms material specifically for your preferred ruleset. As the licensing currently exists, I don't think it's possible. The OGL does not release Realms IP for use by a third party, and Wizards (who own the Realms IP) aren't going to be releasing any new 3e content ever again. Such material is outside the special agreement available to Guild creators.

You might also be talking about new Realmslore written by third parties on the Guild. As far as I know, that's perfectly acceptable. There's no category specifically for "lore," so what's there is probably poorly organized, and the OBS search engine isn't the most robust. For all I know, there's a 200-page treatise on the history of the Crown Wars on the Guild and nobody can find it. Maybe George can tell us how he categorized his lore offerings so we can refine some keywords.

There are plenty of gray areas, too. It's worth pointing out that my best-selling item on the Guild is neither edition-specific nor Realms-specific, but rather a collection of advice for DMs.
http://www.dmsguild.com/product/190786/

One thing you will not find anywhere is a new Forgotten Realms adventure using the 3e ruleset. Not for legal sale, at least.

Cheers,

Bob
www.r-p-davis.com

Edited by - R P Davis on 05 Dec 2017 12:14:21
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idilippy
Senior Scribe

USA
413 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2017 :  15:40:59  Show Profile Send idilippy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One thing to make sure is that you get your websites right Cards, so you have your expectations correct.
One Book Shelf is the overall company that runs 8 different but related online stores that sell ebooks, comics, RPG, and Wargame material.

DriveThruRPG sells pdf and sometimes hard copy material from close enough to every RPG company and 3pp that makes digital goods. This includes a variety of 3rd party and small publishers who make material using the OGL for all the 3.5e and older editions of D&D, GSL for 4e, and 5e. It also includes all sorts of retro-clones, non-D&D games, and game neutral supplemental material like maps or random tables.

DM’s Guild is a separate website which has two purposes. First, it is the venue WotC uses to sell digital and print copies of older edition material. You can buy official old edition rules, modules, campaign guides, and more. Second, and relevant to this topic, it is a venue where fans can sell their own creations using some intellectual property that WotC retains the rights to, with two main restrictions. The material must contain 5th edition rules and the only currently allowed settings to use IP from are Ravenloft and the Forgotten Realms.

If you’re looking for a place where official fan 3.5e rules material set in the Forgotten Realms can be published, it doesn’t exist. There are edition neutral lore mixed in with 5e rules in the DMs Guild materials, and there are not-FR setting 3.5e materials available on DriveThruRPG from 3pps but there’s no combo of the two. What seems to sell best in DMs Guild is more mechanics and tie ins to whatever the current official adventure is. Also presumably their older edition official material sells but I have no idea how well.

So in the end you had a mistaken impression of what DMs Guild was, misunderstandings happen and if you are looking for mostly lore it does exist, just have to sift through all the other stuff to find it which isn’t always the easiest thing on an OBS site’s search engine. George Krashos has some really cool and free Impultir stuff, also a pay what you want and $1/$2 books which are great. I happily made the switch to 5e from Pathfinder though so the mechanics and lore are both useful to me, but the pure lore is nice too even without the rules. The Impultir timeline is great, and the Layla Maurshanta was a pure lore write up of an Elven organization as of 1372 DR.

Edited by - idilippy on 05 Dec 2017 15:46:57
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R P Davis
Seeker

USA
17 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2017 :  15:59:33  Show Profile  Visit R P Davis's Homepage Send R P Davis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by idilippy

Also presumably their older edition official material sells but I have no idea how well.

I do okay with AD&D to 5e conversions. In fact, I do as well with those as I do adventures of my own creation and the conversions take far less work!

Cheers,

Bob
www.r-p-davis.com
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idilippy
Senior Scribe

USA
413 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2017 :  16:59:02  Show Profile Send idilippy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by R P Davis

quote:
Originally posted by idilippy

Also presumably their older edition official material sells but I have no idea how well.

I do okay with AD&D to 5e conversions. In fact, I do as well with those as I do adventures of my own creation and the conversions take far less work!


I’ve bought a fair number of AD&D to 5e conversions, so glad to hear others are too! I was talking specifically about how well WotC does selling their own old edition material but it’s good to hear the classic module conversions are popular.
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Storyteller Hero
Seeker

USA
45 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2017 :  04:19:42  Show Profile  Visit Storyteller Hero's Homepage Send Storyteller Hero a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A lot of what I'm making on my channel is fluff-heavy, so there are parts of my projects that can be used for editions other than 5th.

For example, in my Bahamut lore pamphlet, I included gap-filling details about the seven dragons that serve directly under the deity, which can be useful lore for any era of Forgotten Realms in which Bahamut exists as a deity.

Even if the DMsGuild rules options aren't useful to your non-5e campaign, the projects with lore might be.


My Blog: https://www.facebook.com/Johnnys-Tabletop-RPG-Design-Blog-1697026710539149/?ref=aymt_homepage_panel

My DMG Shop: http://www.dmsguild.com/browse.php?x=0&y=0&author=Johnny%20Tek

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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3434 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2017 :  04:32:34  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Arivia

I'm most comfortable and familiar with the 3e Realms and ruleset there, so I'm not really interested in 5e stuff for 5e's sake. 5e is a really bad system, from an objective design



ah....no. Subjective til the cows come home through, sure we can work with that.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14555 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2017 :  05:19:54  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cards77

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I hated 4e, because it didn't feel like D&D to me. However, 5e feels much more like (old school) D&D than 3e did, to me. <snip>


That was a pretty above average troll. You almost got me to bite.

I wasn't intednding to be 'trollish'; I was merely relating my personal feelings - in retrospect - about certain editions. I LOVED 3e when it first came out, but then it became one huge cash-grab, with splat after splat of redundant, unoriginal content and steaming piles of *meh* monsters and NPCs. I ran 3e games, for several years, And when 4e came out, I switched to Pathfinder. Pathfinder... which is made by PAIZO... a completely different company than Hasbro...

And I stopped using Pathfinder a couple of years back. I'd like to say its because I started to see some of the 'bloat' I saw with 3e/3.5, and I had a feeling Paizo was going to make the same mistakes... eventually. But the truth is, my two older sons got TOO old, and they and their friends 'moved on' (they suddenly noticed girls were much more fun to play with than 'dear old dad'). My two younger boys were still too young at the time (I have played 5e with them since), so I simply stopped playing. However, I have heard some of my projections about Paizo's future came to pass (they had a couple of 'bombs' - I guess their 'rabid fanbois' weren't as rabid as they had assumed). History does tend to repeat itself. {sigh}

But you come here asking the question, "why isn't Hasbro allowing people to produce material for their competitor's system using THEIR IP?", and then accuse ME of trolling. Well, for that matter why isn't Walmart carrying some of Target's products? That's kinda unfair too. You may as well be going into an Apple store and asking if you can buy a computer with Windows on it.

As for 'old edition content', I haven't really used the DMsGuild (which is funny, because I actually have 'credits' on a couple of products there). I have no idea whats available, but from the stuff I've personally seen and worked on, it all looked edition-neutral (lore wise). If you want pre-5e lore you CAN get that, but you really can't expect most folks to produce mechanics for multiple editions (a few have - the Ixinos project I helped with has duel mechanics for 3e and 5e, and was originally set in 3e).

And then there's us - Candlekeep. Krash still participates here, but not as much as he used to. Eric is on hiatus - life made him busy. I see Tom Costa responding to you here, and Jeff Grubb has been working on a few things. Ed's insanely busy, poor guy. Between RW and (probably regrettable) prior commitments, he has no time for FR anymore. I haven't see Steven Schend on these boards in awhile - last I heard he was doing something with/for Ed, but I have no idea about any of that now. Hopefully we'll see something in that regard, eventually.

The sad things is, all of those guys were posting more stuff on here during the 4e era (about the previous era) than they are now. I feel The Forgotten Realms is in a renaissance, and for whatever reason, those luminaries aren't here to enjoy it, and for us to enjoy them. Had 5e and the DMsGuild happened just 3-5 years sooner, I feel like we'd be seeing a whole different ballgame right now. But it was too long, and/or too late. Its like trying to fix an old relationship. You've already moved on, so just keep walking. Thats what I think is happening here. A damn shame, because as I've just said, had this 'resurgence' occurred just a few years earlier, it would be like a new 'golden age'. IMO, of course.


Oh, and you should start playing 5e. 3e has had its heyday, and its finally on the decline. People are realizing how inefficient, bloated, and broken the rules truly are. Yessss, let the anger flow through you... come over to the Dark Side.


"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 06 Dec 2017 05:23:07
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