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Jaclyn
Acolyte

1 Posts

Posted - 19 Nov 2017 :  21:12:40  Show Profile Send Jaclyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Hello everyone, I'm new here. I found this place while doing a search of why Rai'gy's name changed between novels. I think I've found a new place on the net to frequent. I have quite a few D&D novels, Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, Ravenloft, I probably have at least some from all the various settings that have been released through the years. You see, my step-dad was friends with someone who owned a bookstore, and he wanted to open his own coffee-shop/book-swap type establishment, so he always got the old books the bookstore wanted to get rid of, or was able to buy them for very cheap. As a result, I have quite a few D&D novels at my disposal. I've just recently started reading through them — god only knows why, I've always loved D&D. As a result, my reading experience has been mostly contained to the Forgotten Realms setting, and more specifically, R.A. Salvatore's works. After I finish those in short order, I would like to continue reading around the Forgotten Realms setting before moving on to another setting, probably Dragonlance as I own more Dragonlance novels than I do Forgotten Realms. Maybe you guys can suggest what I should read next. I'm currently almost done with the Paths of Darkness series. Since I opened up with inconsistencies involving names, I will close with that. Ever notice how it used to be Lloth but now everywhere it's Lolth? In the old Salvatore books it's Lloth and even on this forum in the profile pictures it's Lloth, but recently everywhere it's Lolth. I very much preferr Lloth, since that's what I first encountered and I read it "loth" with a very long l sound. Not to mention that Lolth sounds like she would be the god of Imgur.

Jaclyn
Acolyte

1 Posts

Posted - 19 Nov 2017 :  21:24:11  Show Profile Send Jaclyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I just realized that I missed a prime opportunity to read some Ravenloft this October, especially since I heard that there is a fairly new campaign that was made involving Strahd. I know that that's more off-topic of these forums, but I do feel remiss that I missed the opportunity to enjoy some thematic D&D novels. I also forgot to mention in my welcome post that I have played a lot of Spellfire, and still have quite a collection of cards, in case anyone is interested in chatting about that. If you can't tell I am very excited to have found this place and look forward to frequenting these forums.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30431 Posts

Posted - 20 Nov 2017 :  00:28:32  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Welcome to Candlekeep!

Feel free to ask any questions you may have... A lot of us have been Realms fans for years, and we know a thing or three about the setting. Plus, we've got some of the authors and creators here!

As for the rest of us, we are friendly, mostly harmless, and occasionally strange... Enjoy your stay!

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30431 Posts

Posted - 20 Nov 2017 :  00:34:15  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jaclyn

Since I opened up with inconsistencies involving names, I will close with that. Ever notice how it used to be Lloth but now everywhere it's Lolth? In the old Salvatore books it's Lloth and even on this forum in the profile pictures it's Lloth, but recently everywhere it's Lolth. I very much preferr Lloth, since that's what I first encountered and I read it "loth" with a very long l sound. Not to mention that Lolth sounds like she would be the god of Imgur.



Unless I am mistaken, it has always been Lolth, since Gary Gygax created her in 1978 -- long before any FR novels inexplicably used "Lloth." I'm sure there's a reason the author used that spelling, but I'm not aware of it.


quote:
Originally posted by Jaclyn

I also forgot to mention in my welcome post that I have played a lot of Spellfire, and still have quite a collection of cards, in case anyone is interested in chatting about that. If you can't tell I am very excited to have found this place and look forward to frequenting these forums.



Oh, gods, Spellfire cards... I wasted a hell of a lot of money on those. At one point, I had two FR decks, a deck each for Dragonlance, Ravenloft, and Greyhawk, a generic deck, and one built towards psionics (that one proved to be a bad idea, since there's an event card that blocks all psionics).

I lost my cards in a fire several years ago... But I still kinda cringe every year, at GenCon, when I see Spellfire cards being used in Cardhalla. I spent all that money on them, and now they're useless...

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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Zeromaru X
Senior Scribe

Colombia
854 Posts

Posted - 20 Nov 2017 :  01:04:47  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi, Jaclyn. Welcome to the forums.

As for the Lloth stuff, RAS answered this in another forum:

quote:
That comes from the early days of the Realms, when people were running in a million different directions. Tempos or Tempus? Lolth or Lloth? TSR and now WotC have worked hard to minimize these, and have done a pretty good job of either settling on one spelling or explaining the variations as regional/racial/cultural dialect. (<RAS, 06/10/08 11:37 AM>)



So, basically Lloth its the local name Menzoberranites(?) use to name Lolth.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 20 Nov 2017 01:06:31
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Jaclyn
Acolyte

1 Posts

Posted - 20 Nov 2017 :  02:10:30  Show Profile Send Jaclyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Jaclyn

Since I opened up with inconsistencies involving names, I will close with that. Ever notice how it used to be Lloth but now everywhere it's Lolth? In the old Salvatore books it's Lloth and even on this forum in the profile pictures it's Lloth, but recently everywhere it's Lolth. I very much preferr Lloth, since that's what I first encountered and I read it "loth" with a very long l sound. Not to mention that Lolth sounds like she would be the god of Imgur.



Unless I am mistaken, it has always been Lolth, since Gary Gygax created her in 1978 -- long before any FR novels inexplicably used "Lloth." I'm sure there's a reason the author used that spelling, but I'm not aware of it.


quote:
Originally posted by Jaclyn

I also forgot to mention in my welcome post that I have played a lot of Spellfire, and still have quite a collection of cards, in case anyone is interested in chatting about that. If you can't tell I am very excited to have found this place and look forward to frequenting these forums.



Oh, gods, Spellfire cards... I wasted a hell of a lot of money on those. At one point, I had two FR decks, a deck each for Dragonlance, Ravenloft, and Greyhawk, a generic deck, and one built towards psionics (that one proved to be a bad idea, since there's an event card that blocks all psionics).

I lost my cards in a fire several years ago... But I still kinda cringe every year, at GenCon, when I see Spellfire cards being used in Cardhalla. I spent all that money on them, and now they're useless...



Yeah, I only ever played with my stepdad and my brother, and we never bothered to look up any tournament rules so we would just throw our entire pools of cards against each other and have 72+ hour games. Good times. I've played like two games using tournament rules with my cousin, and it is a lot more fun to be honest. Doesn't take an entire weekend with only breaks for bathroom and food. Lots of more strategy involved with deck-building too. Sucks that Spellfire will never make a big come-back since WotC owns Magic and Spellfire was a TSR property.

quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

Hi, Jaclyn. Welcome to the forums.

As for the Lloth stuff, RAS answered this in another forum:

quote:
That comes from the early days of the Realms, when people were running in a million different directions. Tempos or Tempus? Lolth or Lloth? TSR and now WotC have worked hard to minimize these, and have done a pretty good job of either settling on one spelling or explaining the variations as regional/racial/cultural dialect. (<RAS, 06/10/08 11:37 AM>)



So, basically Lloth its the local name Menzoberranites(?) use to name Lolth.



I've actually run into that post before. I know why the discrepancy is there, but I still find it amusing.
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6451 Posts

Posted - 20 Nov 2017 :  02:53:30  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Actually the 1979 TSR(UK) "first" printings of the 1E Fiend Folio had "Lloth (Demon Queen of Spiders)", changed in subsequent TSR(USA) printings to "Lolth (Demon Queen of Spiders) (Lesser Goddess)". Gygax used "Lloth" in TSR's 1978 Vault of the Drow and in TSR's 1980 Queen of the Demonweb Pits. Later revisions/printings of these products were also changed to "Lolth".

My understanding is that "Lloth" persisted intermittently and both names were used until at least circa 1992 (TSR/WotC 2E Menzoberranzan) ... and that the canon/fandom explanation (based largely on RAS's works) is now that "Lolth" is the goddess's common name but "Lloth" is an archaic form still used by the drow (at least the drow in Menzo) when naming her in the drow language.

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 20 Nov 2017 03:01:57
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30431 Posts

Posted - 20 Nov 2017 :  03:45:46  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

Actually the 1979 TSR(UK) "first" printings of the 1E Fiend Folio had "Lloth (Demon Queen of Spiders)", changed in subsequent TSR(USA) printings to "Lolth (Demon Queen of Spiders) (Lesser Goddess)". Gygax used "Lloth" in TSR's 1978 Vault of the Drow and in TSR's 1980 Queen of the Demonweb Pits. Later revisions/printings of these products were also changed to "Lolth".

My understanding is that "Lloth" persisted intermittently and both names were used until at least circa 1992 (TSR/WotC 2E Menzoberranzan) ... and that the canon/fandom explanation (based largely on RAS's works) is now that "Lolth" is the goddess's common name but "Lloth" is an archaic form still used by the drow (at least the drow in Menzo) when naming her in the drow language.



According to Wikipedia: "Lolth was first mentioned in the modules Descent into the Depths of the Earth (1978) and more fully described in Vault of the Drow (1978)". I just downloaded copies of both from RPGNow, and both use the proper spelling, Lolth.

Since the first module is the reprint, I looked around further, and found a poor, non-OCR'ed scan of the 1978 printing of the module -- and it also referred to Lolth.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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Jaclyn
Acolyte

1 Posts

Posted - 20 Nov 2017 :  07:04:01  Show Profile Send Jaclyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Regardless of whether Lolth is right or not, I'm still going to call her Lloth. I just think it looks better, it's the first spelling I encountered, and it fits how I want to pronounce her name. If she's truly upset, I'm sure I'll be beset by yochlol.
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
Admin

United Kingdom
5586 Posts

Posted - 20 Nov 2017 :  18:26:10  Show Profile  Visit Alaundo's Homepage  Click to see Alaundo's MSN Messenger address Send Alaundo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well met, Jaclyn

Welcome to Candlekeep. Enjoy thy stay within these halls of lore and knowledge.

Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct


An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2059 Posts

Posted - 22 Nov 2017 :  20:36:51  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Welcome to the Keep

Sweet water and light laughter
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The Masked Mage
Master of Realmslore

USA
1366 Posts

Posted - 16 Dec 2017 :  15:21:09  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Welcome Jaclyn. No worries about your interest in Ravenloft; more than a few of us old scribes have had an adventure or two through its mists, and several of its dark corners were once locations in The Realms. As for Strahd, that old vampiric warlord goes back all the way to the origins of Ravenloft so there is more than a little lore to dig up an that old bag of bones.

Edited by - The Masked Mage on 16 Dec 2017 15:27:02
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The Masked Mage
Master of Realmslore

USA
1366 Posts

Posted - 16 Dec 2017 :  16:07:31  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

Actually the 1979 TSR(UK) "first" printings of the 1E Fiend Folio had "Lloth (Demon Queen of Spiders)", changed in subsequent TSR(USA) printings to "Lolth (Demon Queen of Spiders) (Lesser Goddess)". Gygax used "Lloth" in TSR's 1978 Vault of the Drow and in TSR's 1980 Queen of the Demonweb Pits. Later revisions/printings of these products were also changed to "Lolth".

My understanding is that "Lloth" persisted intermittently and both names were used until at least circa 1992 (TSR/WotC 2E Menzoberranzan) ... and that the canon/fandom explanation (based largely on RAS's works) is now that "Lolth" is the goddess's common name but "Lloth" is an archaic form still used by the drow (at least the drow in Menzo) when naming her in the drow language.



According to Wikipedia: "Lolth was first mentioned in the modules Descent into the Depths of the Earth (1978) and more fully described in Vault of the Drow (1978)". I just downloaded copies of both from RPGNow, and both use the proper spelling, Lolth.

Since the first module is the reprint, I looked around further, and found a poor, non-OCR'ed scan of the 1978 printing of the module -- and it also referred to Lolth.



Yeah, I have all the originals of those adventures and it was Lolth. The fiend folio was first published in 1981. I thought it was possible that the spider queen originally came out of one of the white dwarf articles they took the entries from, but the online index does not have her appear in them until 1983 (white dwarf 42). In that article which was based on the Deities and Demigods book it was misspelled Lloth (according to the online index).

So, the Lloth vs. Lolth conundrum seems to find its origin there, with the English and their poor spelling :)
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VikingLegion
Learned Scribe

USA
284 Posts

Posted - 16 Dec 2017 :  21:29:49  Show Profile Send VikingLegion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well met, Jaclyn!

Like you, I'm a big fan of D&D as a whole, and have followed many of the various settings over the years. I'd be happy to chat Realms, Ravenloft, or Dragonlance with you. But in case you don't know, those settings also have similar, albeit smaller/lesser trafficked, message boards of their own.

Dragonlance:
http://www.dragonlanceforums.com/index.php

Ravenloft:
http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/forum/index.php

Greyhawk:
http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=Forums&file=index

There's another for Dark Sun and yet another for Planescape that I also frequent from time to time if you're interested.
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Jaclyn
Acolyte

1 Posts

Posted - 17 Dec 2017 :  00:00:42  Show Profile Send Jaclyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by VikingLegion

Well met, Jaclyn!

Like you, I'm a big fan of D&D as a whole, and have followed many of the various settings over the years. I'd be happy to chat Realms, Ravenloft, or Dragonlance with you. But in case you don't know, those settings also have similar, albeit smaller/lesser trafficked, message boards of their own.

Dragonlance:
http://www.dragonlanceforums.com/index.php

Ravenloft:
http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/forum/index.php

Greyhawk:
http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=Forums&file=index

There's another for Dark Sun and yet another for Planescape that I also frequent from time to time if you're interested.



I'll have to keep that in mind for when I get my books out of storage and can dive into the other settings. For now I'll just continue reading the five or six books I have with me.
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