Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Forgotten Realms Journals
 General Forgotten Realms Chat
 NEW Utter East project thread
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page | Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 9

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 07 Nov 2017 :  17:24:07  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And I just realized - if the dragon was released, then we have a VERY pissed-off demigod itching to get even with Tan Chin.

I may have to spin that into some of what I did with the 4e Open grave lore in Ra-Khati.

Of course, who knows whats going on over there in 5e? We didn't even get K-T as our OA setting in 3e, so the wall itself could even be back (although I have no idea how - Ao's magic scepter again?) I give them (WotC/Hasbro) full permission to use anything I just wrote about it (I actually - briefly - discussed this with BRJ at Gencon2012), because just about anything is better than 'the Great wall of China' in FR (they could even just keep the landrise thing and ignore the canyon and lava).

Oh, and if you are wondering how a 'river of lava' actually works, there are massive Gates to the elemental plane of lava at BOTH ends (it flows into Realmspace, through the chasm, and then back out... easy peasy).
The entire region was seismically and geothermally active, from the Firepeaks on down and across to Guge, and thats canon. Its probably why we don't hear anything about the Underdark in that entire region.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 07 Nov 2017 17:24:46
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2017 :  18:54:02  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@BadCatMan -

Do you have a list of the critters the Bloodforges can make, or perhaps (even better) a complete list of creatures that appear in the Utter east?


I recall suggesting using the Mystaran Bhut for the Trolls/Trow in the area, because they look a lot like the pic from the VG. However, now that I've just added the Mahasarpa Seven Kingdoms (not to be confused with uE's Five Kingdoms) into the Sempadan region (the fit is awesome, geographically, culturally, lore-wise, etc.), I see they have actual Indian Bhuts, which are true undead. So now I'm thinking of combining the two (that they are the undead from the Mahasarpa material, but they can possess weak-willed creatures, and some of them in the uE region have found the local trolls a particularly easy creature to take control of). Thus, 'possession' isn't listed among their normal abilities, because you'd have to have like a Wis. 5 or less to be susceptible (maybe like a +5 to Wis. savings throw, or a Wis. savings roll with advantage, in 5e). Since they're both known to be savage and enjoy eating the flesh of sentient creatures, I think the trolls don't put much effort into resisting (the Bhut mindset is close enough to theirs for them not to even notice their behavior is any different).

We also came up with three different kinds of Medusae (TRUE Gorgons). Since I plan a DMsGuild booklet for the map, I may want to do a full write-up on my version of them (I've managed to merge the other type of gorgons and that lore with these).

You see, Maeder (male medusae) - being so incredibly rare - have another ability that almost no-one has heard about - they can shape-change into a fearsome, bull-like creature with metallic-looking stone scales. In fact, their fighting abilities are so much better in this form, that they only take their human-like form when around females of their kind.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 08 Nov 2017 18:54:18
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2017 :  19:24:12  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wow, the Mahasarpa material even has the Vaati in it!
They live in the mountains to the north...

I guess I know what form those 'devas' up in Langdarma are going to take now. Perfect fit or what?

I also plan to borrow heavily from the Mystara monstrous Compendium for the Ue - that was my plan a decade ago, and I still think its a perfect fit. Mystra has some odd critters, and the flavor is conducive to the Indian folklore. I can even bring-in the Rakasta (Cat-people) from there, because the 'fallen kingdom' of Zardula supposedly were all cursed and turned into predatory cats (by some, unknown 'outside power' who was ticked off at them... and here I have the Rakshasa just to the north in the Yehimals).

And Topi in the jungles. I love those crazy little dudes. They had something extremely similar in the Diablo II game (Fallen).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

Go to Top of Page

Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3182 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2017 :  20:22:49  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-I would assume that, politics willing, Shou Lung would have rebuilt the Dragonwall in some capacity. It was manned, with towers and guardhouses and whatever else, so it was more than just a passive object they ignored providing them with protection. All those conscripts and soldiers had to do something in the aftermath.

-There was probably a psychological aspect to it, too. It had been there for hundreds of years, giving the empire the feeling of invulnerability from the west (even if that wasn't completely true, as they found out with the Tuigan breach). Suddenly, it's gone? They're open. Gotta do something about that, even if now there's lava, motes, fractures in the earth, etc.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2017 :  21:50:19  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I HATE the Dragonwall. Its just so utterly derivative.

quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

-I would assume that, politics willing, Shou Lung would have rebuilt the Dragonwall in some capacity. It was manned, with towers and guardhouses and whatever else, so it was more than just a passive object they ignored providing them with protection. All those conscripts and soldiers had to do something in the aftermath.
Wall went *BOOM!* when the spellplague hit (not sure why, since the dragon had already been releases, IIRC). Anyhow, I'm just not seeing a very high survival rate after a thousand-mile long explosion.

quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

-There was probably a psychological aspect to it, too. It had been there for hundreds of years, giving the empire the feeling of invulnerability from the west (even if that wasn't completely true, as they found out with the Tuigan breach). Suddenly, it's gone? They're open. Gotta do something about that, even if now there's lava, motes, fractures in the earth, etc.
Which is why I say separate it in another (perhaps 'more natural') fashion, like a landrise, chasm, or 'river of lava' (or all three, as I have done). The Landrise by itself is TOO derivative from other settings, (like 'The Land' from Thomas Covenant), plus we already have one. Thats why I only added it as after thought (to explain how the lava - no matter how fast it was flowing - managed to 'shoot out' over the chasm and reached the other side). Plus, just adding a landrise by itself isn't so great, because the Tuigan would be on the high side, not the Shou.

If the river of lava is a bit much, just make it a normal river (just extend the Jumpa Gorge all the way north - that may be the most plausible thing to do). As I said, the only reason why I did my 'landrise' was to explain the Obsidian Bridge (C'mon! Doesn't that name just sound so awesome? )

We could have a normal gorge, with a normal bridge, but thats kinda boring, plus FR already has a few 'uber-bridges' elsewhere. Plus, I would think the Tuigan would have no problem 'taking' said bridge, or stopping its construction in the first place. Now, a natural (and nearly 'instant') formation like an arch of stone - with a dwarf kingdom inside - makes sense i both terms of how it got built, and also why the Tuigan would not be able to take it so easily. In fact, this new kingdom of Dwarves could be getting a heavy stipend from Shou-Lung just to maintain the bridge, keep it open to trade, and (most importantly) keep the Tuigan from crossing in large numbers.

Plus, I want WotC to officially adopt it, just so they can hire some really great artist to draw that thing - a basalt arch over a mile long, with various 'structures' (windows, towers, etc.) sticking out of it here and there. Oh, and dwarven Wyvern riders... can't use griffons because of the noxious fumes. The outside bridge-workers and Dactyl-riders would look something like THIS.

"Are you my Mummy?"

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 08 Nov 2017 21:52:22
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2017 :  21:54:43  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Of course, given another century or so, I am sure the Shou will have settled all across the top, filling it with weird shops and even houses hanging over the sides and what-not, and everyone wearing gasmasks (so everyone would look like Jawas and Sand people). Now I am picturing Desert Punk.

They'd also have a great 'creature cantina', with an all-illithid band. They only know one song, however...

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 08 Nov 2017 22:11:59
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7374 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2017 :  22:48:50  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

@BadCatMan -

Do you have a list of the critters the Bloodforges can make, or perhaps (even better) a complete list of creatures that appear in the Utter east?


I recall suggesting using the Mystaran Bhut for the Trolls/Trow in the area, because they look a lot like the pic from the VG. However, now that I've just added the Mahasarpa Seven Kingdoms (not to be confused with uE's Five Kingdoms) into the Sempadan region (the fit is awesome, geographically, culturally, lore-wise, etc.), I see they have actual Indian Bhuts, which are true undead. So now I'm thinking of combining the two (that they are the undead from the Mahasarpa material, but they can possess weak-willed creatures, and some of them in the uE region have found the local trolls a particularly easy creature to take control of). Thus, 'possession' isn't listed among their normal abilities, because you'd have to have like a Wis. 5 or less to be susceptible (maybe like a +5 to Wis. savings throw, or a Wis. savings roll with advantage, in 5e). Since they're both known to be savage and enjoy eating the flesh of sentient creatures, I think the trolls don't put much effort into resisting (the Bhut mindset is close enough to theirs for them not to even notice their behavior is any different).

We also came up with three different kinds of Medusae (TRUE Gorgons). Since I plan a DMsGuild booklet for the map, I may want to do a full write-up on my version of them (I've managed to merge the other type of gorgons and that lore with these).

You see, Maeder (male medusae) - being so incredibly rare - have another ability that almost no-one has heard about - they can shape-change into a fearsome, bull-like creature with metallic-looking stone scales. In fact, their fighting abilities are so much better in this form, that they only take their human-like form when around females of their kind.



Here's where I got the list of things that could be made

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Basal_golem

Personally, I like the idea of making the arbor lodge able to modify existing creatures to make them into things like the griffin. So, bind a griffin spirit into a lion. Bind a Pegasus, nightmare, or some kind of unicorn spirit into a horse. Bind a treant spirit (or some other plant creature) into a tree. Given that this would be additive (i.e. expanding the boundaries), I don't see a problem with it. Maybe they even have some kind of "totem" that gets attached to them somehow, and if the totem ever breaks they "revert".

Anyway, was looking for some way that these bloodforges might actually allow these people to be exporting magical beasts.... and hell, maybe even the animals can breed true. It could really make the Utter East something special if it went to Abeir..... and this territory may have been uninhabited for whatever may have transferred to Toril for the last hundred years (since its noted as poor terrain).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2017 :  23:49:11  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The fact that they could even summon/create humans is really weird, thus why I compared them earlier to Deepspawn. In fact, with FR dwarves originating in the Yehimals (canon), and then later using Deepsawn like crazy (also canon), it seems almost a no-brainer to somehow connect the two together.

Here's my thought process on this: I was thinking that the Deepspawn were somehow a biological version of the bloodforges - like they were created to replace them or something. My next thought was that it doesn't make sense the dwarves had the deepspawn - if anything, they would have been more likely to be the people to have built the artificial version (The Bloodforges... heck, 'Forge' is even in the name!) Also, who would have the bio-tech to create a 'living monster machine'? The Batrachi!

So what if, the Batrachi created the deepspawn some 30K+ years ago, and when the wolrd got Sundered, and they died/fled Toril, the deepspawn remained in their ruins. Now, we've already pegged this region as an ancient Batrachi site (and now I am just realizing the entirety of the Utter East is probably an impact crater, like the Yucatan - the Yehimals are the rim!), so we can just say there was a bunch of deepspawn in the vacinity left behind.

The dwarves (in the Yehimals - if it is a crater, did they arrive on the chunk of whatever that was? Were they 'born from it'?) capture a few of these things that wandered into the mountains, and use some Rune-magic and such (didn't BCM mention 'Nordic-looking Runes'?) to create their own version, and called them 'Lifeforges'. By feeding things (lifeforce) into them, they could get cooler stuff back out. It was basically like a magical version of ST's replicators. Raw material in, finished 'monster' out. The didn't even need the whole creature - they eventually realized just the 'lifeforce' itself was all that mattered (and perhaps that 'cauldron' was an early proto-type). Now they could literally just make more of themselves (there was probably no more than a thousand living in the Yehimals - they aren't a natural race, and I suspect they didn't even have females... at first.)

In fact, thats why when they fled the Yehimals (because the 'dug too deep' and uncovered some antideluvian badness), they only took the Deepspawn with them. The 'Lifeforges' had the drawback of creating artifical life (it could not procreate), whereas the more-advanced batrachi Deepspawn could 'fill in' missing data (DNA sequences) and create creatures that would breed true. Thus, male dwarves (the ONLY kind at first) had to breed with females of other species in the beginning, until they started producing their own females. This means the only 'true dwarves' (possibly) would be the Urdunnir, and all other subgroups (ethnicities) would really be dwarf hybrids. Anyhow, that not really important to where I meant to go with tis (just tying it to my other musings).

So the dwarves create the Lifeforges (using the Deepspawn for inspiration0, but then abandon the Forges and take some Deepspawn when they flee the Yehimals. They fled because they uncovered the prison of the Raksashas, and then the Devas (Wind Dukes, or 'Vaati') show up and reseal the hole they made (but not until after a few Raksasha escape). the dwarves agreed to leave (many of them were killed), and the Vaati agreed to take the Lifeforges and guard them in Landarma (their 'camp' where they've been watching over the Yehimals the whole time*). Much later, the people of Tempat Larag flee their kingdom due to the erupting volcano, and many of them flee into the mountains, discovering 'fabled Langdarma'. The Vaati give some of the Forges to the refugees, and tell them they must continue through the mountains to the west, where it should be safe, and most go (a few stayed to live and work among the devas). Before they left, thee Vaati showed them how to use the lifeforges to create food, clothing, and even shelter for themselves, so they would die on their long and ardurous journey. Although they need to do was use a little 'lifeforce' to empower them - they would cut their hand and let the blood drip onto the Forge, and the energy taken from the blood would be able to provide them with a meal fit for one person. More bllod would allow them to create more food, or other things (the Vaati felt this simple method was the most expediant way of providing a balancing factor to the Forges, since each person could only give a tiny bit of blood, and there was some pain involved). Thus, the Mar called them 'Bloodforges', and carried them out of Langdarma and into the west. The Mar used their Forges wisely, and most made it to their new homeland - The Utter east, where they create the Five Kingdoms - The Realms of Order. Earth or Prithvi; Water or Jal ; Fire or Agni; Air or Vayu, and then Ether or Akasha. These 'great nations' of the Mar people grew and became shining beacons of law in the east. Leaders were chosen - the heads of each church - to rule over the Realms of Order, and each took a single Bloodforge and hid it away beneath his capital, in case their power was ever again needed (there may have been others - ones the dwarves lost track of themselves, ones that got 'misplaced' by some Mar before the Five Kingdoms officially formed, and there is probably at least one still in Langdarma).

And then the waves of barbarians came. The first were the Bedine, who were a related group of people. hundreds of years earlier some mar had fled southwest, rather than northwest, to escape annihilation, and those people settled in the region of Zakhara - a dry and inhospitable land where the refugees were themselves forged into hard, ruthless tribes. The Bedine, in retrospect, were a minor nuisance. they would raid deep into the lands of the peaceful Mar. Some, less-hostile groups even settled among the Mar - the languages were VERY similar (having derived from a common ancestor). Eventually, things settled down for a time, with only the worst tribes continuing their marudering ways. There were also tribes of Arkuins from the north, who settled in the Ulgaria (future Ulgarth). These also raided the Five Kingdoms on occasion (although they seem to be mostly busy fighting a much fiercer enemy to their north).

But those peoples had nothing on the ffolk - and worse, the Northmen - who came later. Discovering a portal off the coast of the northern Moonshaes, this magical Gate had been used steadily for over a century to colonize the Utter East. First one kingdom, and then another, succumbed to the invaders. The Mar were pushed into the backwater areas of the uE - the last bastion of strength they had was the Northern cities, they banded together under the leader Parsana for mutual defense (and they were successful - those cities never fell).


"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2017 :  00:23:32  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
People often try to figure out what are the 'Five kingdoms' of the Utter East. Four seem obvious, but the last one not so much. They are all wrong, of course. The Five kingdoms of legend fell long ago, even though the name is still used by the Mar and others. Today Koenigheim stands where the Northmen took over one kingdom. Those people are a mix of Northmen and mar culture now. Doegan is similar, except it was the worst of the Ffolk that conquered that land, and they are a mix of Ffolk and Mar. The Ffolk that wanted no part of the raping and pillaging and stealing of land went a bit further north and east, and settled in a natural valley in the Yehimals, and named their new country 'Edenvale'. The native Mar of that region were left in peace, and eventually all were considered full citizens of Edenvale. However, the cultures and people didn't mix as freely as they did elsewhere (where the Mar became little more than slaves), and the Edenvale of today is very much like the Moonshaes. One might even mistake it as such, if one somehow wound up there through magical means, but the mistake would soon become apparent when they happened upon a Mar village, where they kept to the 'old ways'.

Of the remaining realms - although the Parsanic League never fell, through trade and natural cultural osmosis they have become a blend of all the peoples in the region, and even of cultures outside the Utter East. One can even find Bedine, Mulan, Arkauin, and Mujhari (Durpari) peoples here, along with a smattering of folk from just about everywhere on Toril (there is even a group of Mazticans in Tharkar, stranded there after they were rescued from corsair slave ships). And then there is the Venesci hamlet, although its more like a province; it pays tribute to Konigheim to be left in peace. It is still purely Mar, and its the only place in the uE where 'common' is not the common tongue.

There is also the Loxo of Sragadha, who keep to themselves. The Treggi Jungle has a small realm of very strange (Dark) elves. There are the minotaurs of the Sllaviul Mountains, who aren't such bad folk, so long as you don't provoke them. the yakfolk a bit further south are... unpleasant. There is also rumored to be a 'fallen empire' of Mahasarpa (now the Seven kingdoms) to the southeast, beyond Herne's Wood (NE Sempadan), a place of all sorts of beastmen and warlike Mar. The nation of Ulgarth defines the northern border of the Utter East, and is sometimes included as part of it. They, too, had incursions of Ffolk and Northmen (raiding from Doegan and Konigheim, mostly), and the tribal people who once dwelt there are all but forgotten. The people of The Golden Waters are said to be a mix of Mar and Bedine, and call themselves Mujhari, but since the Mar and the Bedine themselves are related, it seems odd to most Mar that these Mujhari do not simply consider themselves Mar.

Last but not least, there is a 'kingdom of Nix' in the mountains and up on the glacier. Their leader is said to be a horrific creature with insectoid features. And there is also the legendary realm of Langdarma, they can only be found through secret ways through the mountains. It is said to be the home of the Vaati - the devas. How these tow realms can both exist in the mountains is beyond most normal folk, but the Yehimals are vast and unforgiving, and two groups of people could live only a few miles apart and never run into each other, if there are no passes between the two.

The entire region is dotted with ruins as well, some that predate the arrival of the Mar (who were smart enough to leave them be). There are some from the time of the Realms of Order, when Tartyron made war on his fellows. And then there are some from the invaders, and the Bloodforge wars that followed. There are even said to be a few ruins dating to ancient Imaskar - their magi were known to build secret refugees far from their empire.


*This footnote really come form the post above:
Since I've now placed the Vaati in Langdarma, I am thinking that Miska the Wolfspider is also a good candidate for our buried 'Big Evil'. I haven't rolled this idea around at all in my brain yet - I just struck me while I was typing the above. And that is, if you don't want to use Ravana and his raksasha, because I wouldn't place both there.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 09 Nov 2017 02:24:15
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7374 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2017 :  01:16:18  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So, just noticed a few things about dates

From Grand History of the realms



–105 DR Year of the Bloody Goad
An Illuskan tribe known as the Rus arrives in eastern Faerûn by means of a malfunctioning portal that deposited them on the eastern shore of Lake Ashane. Although quickly integrated into the native Rashemi population, the Rus were powerful berserkers who sparked an insurrection among the native Rashemi against the court of Eltab [–148, –75]. The arrival of the Rus coincided with the emergence of the Witches of Rashemen, a secret sisterhood formed in the dying days of Raumathar to preserve that empire’s magical lore.

–69 DR Year of No Regrets
An Illuskan tribe from the island of Ruathym [–3000, 1356] travels through a portal to the Council Hills in the Eastern Shaar. Over time, the Illuskans mingle and join with the Arkaiuns who fled the fall of fabled Shandaular, capital of Ashanath, in the lands west of Rashemen centuries before. In time, this mingling of people leads to the establishment of the realm of Dambrath in the Shining South.

48 DR Year of the Bloodied Pikes
Thultim, the seventh king of Estagund, dies heirless. A succession war breaks out, and Estagund disintegrates into a collection of city-states.

106 DR Year of the Adamantine Spiral
Crusaders of Myrkul from the Castle of Al’hanar attack and (temporarily) destroy the Everlasting Wyrm, the dracolich that had been guarding the prison of the demon lord Eltab [–75, 202]. While plundering the dracolich’s hoard, the followers of Myrkul discover the demon and, in exchange for ninety-nine years of service to the Church of Myrkul, agree to release Eltab from his binding. With Eltab’s aid, the followers of Myrkul seize control of the city of Shandaular in the Council Hills and establish the theocracy of Eltabranar, encompassing most of the Eastern Shaar.

127 DR Year of the Defiant Stone
Durpar, Var, and Veldorn establish formal trade relations with Mulhorand.

147 DR Year of the Iron Colossus
Assurian beholder princes conquer Vaelantar and Ormpé. Veldorn is referred to as the Land of Monsters by Maharajah Waileen I.

202 DR Year of the Fanged Gauntlet
The War of Claws: Prompted by the demon lord Eltab [106, 922], the realm of Eltabranar invades Mulhorand and Unther and continues to raid cities and towns in both realms for the next two years.

204 DR Year of the Avarice
End of the War of Claws as Eltabranar is defeated by the forces of Mulhorand led by an incarnation of Anhur wielding the legendary blade Hadryllis. The demon lord Eltab is defeated and imprisoned in a demoncyst beneath what is now Thaymount in present-day Thay.

211 DR Year of Spoiled Splendors
The four tribes of Arkaiun barbarians flee the Council Hills region ahead of invading Untheric and Mulhorandi armies and migrate southwest. They roam the grasslands along the southern coast of Faerûn, eventually settling along the coast of the Bay of Dancing Dolphins.

212 DR Year of the Awakening Magic
Durpar makes a second attempt to free the coastal cities of Veldorn from monster influence and is again repulsed.

552 DR Year of the Dead
Var is conquered by the Arkaiuns of Dambrath.

621 DR Year of Nineteen Swords
Ffolk from the Moonshae Isles colonize the lands of the Utter East and subjugate the indigenous Mar tribes.



From FR16 Shining South
Ulgarth was settled by the great empire of Raurin, in the height of its power. When the empire was destroyed, it endured centuries of barbarism. Warchiefs united the country several times during this period. They fought many skirmishes with other barbarians, particularly those in Durpar and Var the Golden. In DR 202, the barbarian tribes were nearly wiped out by the forces of Mulhorand.

In 348 DR, a group of outlaws, fleeing the justice of the priest-kings of Mulhorand, came to Ulgarth. There they found a fertile, almost unoccupied land. They settled down, and began raising children and crops. This new society in Ulgarth gradually grew in power, while its neighbors Durpar and Var grew apace. But while Durpar grow as a result of its commerce and its philosophy of balance, Ulgarth concentrated on agrarian pursuits. The Ulgarthians developed a highly structured caste system of lords and peasants.


So, my thoughts wander into Eltabranar having a war with Mulhorand at the exact same time that Mulhorand swoops down into Ulgarth and decimates everyone. Then we have that Eltabranar extends over "most of the Eastern Shaar". We also have that Estagund was already nothing but city states. So, did Eltabranar actually extend outside of the Shaar and into Estagund, possibly Var, and into Ulgarth? It wouldn't have to be Arkaiun people, he could have just conquered them and left a puppet regime in place. In fact, they may have been Imaskari descendants in Ulgarth (which it states they were from Raurin), and maybe it was the people of Ulgarth that got Eltab riled up enough to assault the empire of Mulhorand. Or as another thought, the people of Mulhorand decided to attack Ulgarth, and weakened from one war, Eltab decided to attack them in hopes of destroying them while their army was elsewhere. Hell, maybe even Eltab provoked the Ulgarth and Mulhorand empires into fighting one another to open the opportunity to assault Mulhorand.

So, then some of the Arkaiun go down and form Dambrath. Then in 348 DR, other Arkaiun who still live around Shandaular and in the Raurin go and resettle Ulgarth. I'm kind of wondering.... did they setup a portal back to Shandaular... or maybe did Eltabranar/Shandaular setup a portal with Elgarth prior to the whole Mulhorand assault of Ulgarth and the War of the Claws.

Then in 621 DR we have Ffolk showing up, enough that they fill in the utter east and conquer the Mar. We have an assumption as well that this may have included Northmen as well.... so was this another instance like the Illuskans that showed up in -69 DR.... those Illuskans in -69 DR, did they maybe use some gate in the Moonshaes and the Ffolk in 621 DR use the SAME gate? Picturing something where thousands of Ffolk and Northmen travel through a gate to Shandaular and once they get there, they follow another gate to Ulgarth.... and they are forced south by the people of Ulgarth. Maybe even some of the Ffolk/Northmen settle in Ulgarth, finding the Arkaiun to be of similar nature. Maybe some Ffolk/Northmen return via these gates and advertise that there's free land and slaves for the taking, just come get it, and thus the Utter East begins to fill.

So, then comes the thought.... if there's some portal from the Moonshaes or thereabouts to Shandaular that some Illuskans came through in -105 DR (the Rus) and -69 DR (who make the Arkaiun) ..... and possibly even in 348 DR maybe the people that settled Ulgarth was another influx that mixed with the local remnants of Eltabranar from the century prior and the people of the Raurin... and then in 621 DR (who go on to settle the Utter East).......

Well then where would YOU put this portal? I half wonder if Synnoria/Myrloch Vale where the Llewyrr elves "fled the mainland" after the crown wars might contain this portal, and that maybe the portal in Shandaular in Council hills and the portal in Shandaular in Ashanath on Lake Ashane (west of Rashemen) that these are in fact leftover portals setup by the Yuir and Llewyrr elves. Then I find out that the Llewyrr basically fled from the Llewyrrwood (Neverwinter Wood).

So, now I'm picturing a portal network that connects Synnoria/Myrloch Vale in the Moonshaes, Neverwinter wood, Shandaular in the Council Hills, Ashanath west of Rashemen, and Ulgarth. The earlier Rus / Illuskan migrations may have been actually from the Neverwinter Wood, whereas the one with the Ffolk may have been from Synnoria/Myrloch Vale.

Oh, and just got my copies of faces of deception and the 9 double diamond triangle "mini-books". Hopefully they have good lore.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 09 Nov 2017 02:06:52
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7374 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2017 :  02:24:49  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

People often try to figure out what are the 'Five kingdoms' of the Utter East. Four seem obvious, but the last one not so much. They are all wrong, of course. The Five kingdoms of legend fell long ago, even though the name is still used by the Mar and others. Today Koenigheim stands where the Northmen took over one kingdom. Those people are a mix of Northmen and mar culture now. Doegan is similar, except it was the worst of the Ffolk that conquered that land, and they are a mix of Ffolk and Mar. the Ffolk that wanted no part of the raping and pillaging and stealing of land went a bit further north and east, and settled in a natural valley in the Yehimals, and named their new country 'Edenvale'. te mar that lived there already were left in peace, and eventually all were considered full citizens of Edenvale. However, the cultures and people didn't mix as freely as they did elsewhere (where the Mar became little more than slaves), and the Edenvale of today is very much like the Moonshaes. One might even mistake it as such, if one somehow wound up there through magical means, but the mistake would soon become apparent when they happened upon a Mar village, where they kept to the 'old ways'.

Of the remaining realms - although the Parsanic League never fell, through trade and natural cultural osmosis they have become a blend of all the peoples in the region, and even of cultures outside the Utter East. One can even find Bedine, Mulan, Arkauin, and Mujhari (Durpari) peoples here, along with a smattering of folk from just about everywhere on Toril (there is even a group of Mazticans in Tharkar, stranded there after they were rescued from corsair slave ships). And then there is the Venesci hamlet, although its more like a province; it pays tribute to Konigheim to be left in peace. It is still purely Mar, and its the only place in the uE where 'common' is not the common tongue.

There is also the Loxo of Sragadha, who keep to themselves. The Treggi Jungle has a small realm of very strange (Dark) elves. There are the minotaurs of the Sllaviul Mountains, who aren't such bad folk, so long as you don't provoke them. the yakfolk a bit further south are... unpleasant. There is also rumored to be a 'fallen empire' of Mahasarpa (now the Seven kingdoms) to the southeast, beyond Herne's Wood (NE Sempadan), a place of all sorts of beastmen and warlike Mar. The nation of Ulgarth defines the northern border of the Utter East, and is sometimes included as part of it. They, too, had incursions of Ffolk and Northmen (raiding from Doegan and Konigheim, mostly), and the tribal people who once dwelt there are all but forgotten. The people of The Golden Waters are said to be a mix of Mar and Bedine, and call themselves Mujhari, but since the Mar and the Bedine themselves are related, it seems odd to most Mar that these Mujhari do not simply consider themselves Mar.

Last but not least, there is a 'kingdom of Nix' in the mountains and up on the glacier. Their leader is said to be a horrific creature with insectoid features. And there is also the legendary realm of Langdarma, they can only be found through secret ways through the mountains. It is said to be the home of the Vaati - the devas. How these tow realms can both exist in the mountains is beyond most normal folk, but the Yehimals are vast and unforgiving, and two groups of people could live only a few miles apart and never run into each other, if there are no passes between the two.

The entire region is dotted with ruins as well, some that predate the arrival of the Mar (who were smart enough to leave them be). There are some from the time of the Realms of Order, when Tartyron made war on his fellows. And then there are some from the invaders, and the Bloodforge wars that followed. There are even said to be a few ruins dating to ancient Imaskar - their magi were known to build secret refugees far from their empire.


*This footnote really come form the post above:
Since I've now placed the Vaati in Langdarma, I am thinking that Miska the Wolfspider is also a good candidate for our buried 'Big Evil'. I haven't rolled this idea around at all in my brain yet - I just struck me while I was typing the above. And that is, if you don't want to use Ravana and his raksasha, because I wouldn't place both there.



Markustay, do you have any sources for the above. Not doubting it, just wondering WHERE the lore came from. For instance, I get that this kingdom of nix is from blood and magic, and from what I read on the wiki... it sounds like its some kingdom of goblinoids???... but then you're mentioning an insectoid leader (which made my brain immediately think those insectoid devils in the cold area of hell)...

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2017 :  02:45:04  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
EDIT:
This was in response to your post above that one - you type faster than me. I'll get back to respond to this last one in a little bit.


Its a 'Sea gate', and I listed it in my one CKC article.

It HAS to be a Sea Gate, because the Ffolk and Northemn arrived by ship.

I've spread their arrival further along the timeline, with the MAJOR incursion being the one mentioned in the GHotR (two very large fleets - bent on destroying each other - were involved). The Gate is large, and permanent, but it only opens intermittently, during very powerful storms (electricity gets it going). It was also built by the Batrachi, by the way (ALL the Sea Gates were).

I like the idea of someone hooking another portal into the network at Shadulaur. I think that was part of the imaskari network (so connects to the mucklestones, and the other end also reconnects to a portal on one of the northern islands - thats how the Rus came over). We came to a lot of the same conclusions as you, back when we did the first Utter east thread - the Arkauins (really the Rus/Northmen) came south and started a lot of crap, and then got chased all over the place ('raiders' get away with what they do by staying mobile).

I need to post some stuff I think you'll find VERY interesting concerning Yakiria (canon stuff). They also tie into Nog and Kador a little bit, and the 'Savage Gods' of Zakhara (which I think you've used elsewhere). Interesting stuff - I don't know why I never read the whole article before (I focused on the geography bits previously). They also wrote it in such a way so that you could also use all the info in Birthright/Cerilia, which is pretty cool (I like the idea of adding 'Realms Lords' to all these Mar regions).


"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 09 Nov 2017 02:46:18
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7374 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2017 :  02:56:19  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh, and in the above where I say

"So, now I'm picturing a portal network that connects Synnoria/Myrloch Vale in the Moonshaes, Neverwinter wood, Shandaular in the Council Hills, Ashanath west of Rashemen, and Ulgarth. The earlier Rus / Illuskan migrations may have been actually from the Neverwinter Wood, whereas the one with the Ffolk may have been from Synnoria/Myrloch Vale."

Maybe the portal network was all fine.... but then
–1064 DR
A two-way portal between the Shandaular, capital of the kingdom of Ashanath and Council Hills, far to the south in the Eastern Shaar, is opened. Shaundaular expands to encompass the lands surrounding the portal’s southern terminus.

–946 DR
The armies of the Nentyarch of Tharos destroy Shandaular, capital of Ashanath. All the petty Nar kingdoms are now united into the Empire of Narfell. The people of Shandaular flee by means of the two-way portal around which their city is built, leaving their leader Arkaius behind to seal it. These people, now in the Council Hills area of the Shaar, name themselves the Arkaiuns in honor of their fallen ruler.


The humans open this old elven portal.... and even worse, they force it to STAY open... constantly operating... for over 80 years.... degrading it to the point that it starts to break down and spontaneously open.


And possibly a little more glue to hold this together
From GHotR

–9900 DR
Aryvandaar’s covert persecution of High Mages and priests begins. Although not destroyed utterly, Illefarn and its colony in the Llewyrrwood (present-day Neverwinter Wood) are annexed by Aryvandaar. Many elves of both lands flee to the remnants of Shantel Othreier.

–9800 DR
The Vyshantaar Empire’s forces occupy all elf realms (except Keltormir) from the High Forest of Aryvandaar to the sweltering southern forests of Ilythiir. They begin the colonization and settlement of Evermeet [–17600, –1100].
— Yuirwood is settled by small numbers of green elves in the aftermath of the Crown Wars.
— A large force of Llewyrr elves escapes the oppressive mainland and resettles in isolation and safety among the mountains of the Moonshae Islands. Their new land becomes Synnoria, after the elf queen who led the Llewyrr to this island sanctuary.

–9750 DR
The Riildath (present-day Rawlinswood and Forest of Lethyr) is settled by moon elves and gold elves of Shantel Othreier fleeing the persecution of the Vyshaan of Aryvandaar, becoming the realm of Lethyr [–2465]. The elves of the Riildath discover the horrors of Narathmault [–10000, –1015] and resolve to clear the forest of all N’Tel’Q uess (non-elves) so as to safeguard them from the foul legacies of Ilythiir



So, basically, some of the elves of the Llewyrrwood (Neverwinter Wood) end up going to Synnoria and some go to Shantel Othreier and then on to Lethyr which at the time may have included Ashanath.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2017 :  03:11:12  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
EDIT: The Gelugon would be perfect! Nice call!

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Markustay, do you have any sources for the above. Not doubting it, just wondering WHERE the lore came from. For instance, I get that this kingdom of nix is from blood and magic, and from what I read on the wiki... it sounds like its some kingdom of goblinoids???... but then you're mentioning an insectoid leader (which made my brain immediately think those insectoid devils in the cold area of hell)...
That right there is very rough, first draft of something i am putting together for the DMsGuild, but the only thing thre that isn't even based on canon is Sragdhala - I just figured an 'Indianesque' region wouldn't be complete without some 'elephant people'.

Its a mixture of stuff from the novels/short stories, the VG, and what little actual FR canon we had for the area (really, the neighboring areas). Oh, and the minotaurs were also my add (we needed more 'beastmen' LOL) - I had did some stuff with them in the original Ue thread, and I wanted to bring them back (Esbresh in Ulgarth was saved by a minotaur 'pirate captain' a couple centuries back, which is also HB).

The guy in charge of Nix is called Redfang the Reaper. and although the kingdom does seem to have quite a lot of goblinoids, all sorts of monsters are part of it. As you cans ee by that linked pic (I blew it up and lightened it in GIMP so I could see it betetr), Redfang himself has Insectoid features, which surprised me. This is why I think he's a demon, or a least half-demon (Thri-kreen Tiefling? that would be pretty damn unique!)

EDIT:
Also, my description of the ethnicities comes a lot from the novel, even though I never read it. The people of Konigheim and Doegan look 'strange', but the people of edenvale (which i don't think is described in the novel) appear perfectly normal in VG, and that whole area feels very 'Moonshae-ish'. So, I guess a lot of it is 'interpretation & extrapolation'. I tried to keep ulgarth/Ulgaria vague, until we can build some sort of timeline there (because ts connected to the Old Empires, it becomes a bit trickier). I just wanted to mention there were sevral groups of barabarians in the region for a while - the horse-riding Bedine (not sure if I should make-up another name for them, or just keep using the Anauroch term - I just hate saying 'Zakharans' because that's like saying 'Faerûnians' is an ethnicity).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 09 Nov 2017 03:43:18
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2017 :  03:23:41  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
From the Dragon #241 article on the Yakmen:
quote:
The expansion of the empire is in part driven by the yak-men’s relentless search for sacrifices, for they constantly make offerings to their god in the “manner elemental”: these offerings are either burned, drowned, buried alive, or thrown off a mountaintop, depending on which elemental form is being observed. Some say that these sacrifices allow yak-men temporary access to elemental magic; others claim that the sacrifices merely strengthen the Forgotten God’s hold over his followers.
So with all the other 'elemental' stuff we got going on, we got this righ straight south of the Ue (and one could even argue that Yakiria is IN the Utter East. At least part of it, anyway).

And a 'Faceless God'? I am going to go so full-blown GoT with that one.

They also make great use of Marrashi* as aeriel troops, and the 'princess' of the Marrashi is the consort of the Yakman emperor. VERY interesting stuff. Its like the two races are connected.

EDIT:
Oh, and legend has it that the main city (Imperial capitol) of Nathong used to be a flying city, but it hasn't moved off of its mountain top in centuries. The Yakmen supposedly send out spies EVERWHERE - Kara-Tur and Faerûn are both mentioned. Plus, we had that Yakwoman (or would it be a female Yakmen?) actions as ambassador to Waterdeep!

Speaking of which... I did my usual ADD thing while looking for this article, and wound-up going through the whole issue od The Dragon. There is a Greyhawk article in there that most here wouldn't bother with... and it contained a letter from Khelben to Mordenkainen. A rather friendly, almost familial letter, in fact. Khelben was even updating him on 'local politics' (and just WHY would Mordenkainen care about Waterdeep politics? Hmmmmmm?)

It appears one of my oldest theories may actually be on the money. Mordenkainen IS the real Khelben Arunson {because canonically, ours is 'an imposter').

EDIT2:
Now that I just put links to pics of Marrishi (because I myself had to go find what they looked like), am I the only one who thinks that gnolls would consider them 'angels'.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 09 Nov 2017 04:11:25
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31390 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2017 :  04:01:20  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
According to an old write-up I found by Eric Boyd, Khelben Ravencloak and Mordenkainen are not the same:

quote:
Although Khelben is aware of the activities of Mordenkainen and the Circle of Five, he tends to steer his own course. He has met the great arch-mage Mordenkainen on three separate occasions in the company of his grandsire. He was fairly close friends with Tenser before the Greyhawk Wars, although they were only in infrequent contact. Although he harbors a fierce hatred for Rary the Traitor, he feels it is not his place to seek revenge.
Although he does not worship Oerth's gods of magic, Khelben is close friends with Ravel Dasinder, Patriarch of Boccob, and he knows many priests of the All-Seeing One active in the city of Greyhawk.
Among the elves, Khelben is well known to many members of the Knights of Luna, and counts Prince Brightflame, also known as Melf, as one of his favorite individuals despite the differences in their temperment.
Khelben Ravencloak serves as the eyes and ears of his grandfather, Khelben the Elder, on Oerth and speaks with him periodically. He has also been contacted by Elminster and others of Mystra's Chosen on rare occasions.



(This came from online, somewhere, though, and isn't published canon)

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!

Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 09 Nov 2017 04:01:51
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2017 :  04:06:00  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
But but but... we can have our Khelben and eat it too!

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 09 Nov 2017 04:06:21
Go to Top of Page

Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3182 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2017 :  04:09:21  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-Regarding the Basal Golems...is it possible that we've been conceptualizing it incorrectly, in the golem is made of stone? Does anything in the text of the game or whatever actually say stone? One thing that makes me start to think that they're not is because one of the things they can transform into is a Stone Golem. If they're already stone, turning into Stone Golems would be a little redundant.


-With the way they randomly transform into stuff, and are composed of "mana", is it possible that instead of stone, they're really just magic given some kind of basic, corporeal form (a "magic elemental", if you will). The Spellplague was always described using blue imagery, and these golems are blue. Turning into "mystical sites" would be the magic diffusing into the land. Turning into a creature would be that magic taking a different form, a la a polymorph of some kind.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium

Edited by - Lord Karsus on 09 Nov 2017 04:09:40
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2017 :  04:20:27  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes, I agree - thats why I have compared them to the Radiant Golem of SJ. Not quite the same thing, but it was the closest I could find. I could have sworn we did have a 'magic elemental' somewhere in D&D. They're even blue! Spellplague Blue! (Cerulean)

Its like a congealed ball of 'Raw magic' given form. Its 'at ready' to be used, and thats just a convenient way of having it go to where you need it (picture taking a few of your spell slots and being able to send them somewhere). They're really just raw materials for (summoning) spells.

I was thinking about the Thalluds and them (and you know what a thallud is, right? Its what Elmer Fudd has before his main course). I was thinking about merging them somehow, but then I realized they are almost like opposites - thalluds (Tomb-tappers) would go nuts in the Ue eating an army of these things!

I was thinking of other, non-Ue uses for them, like maybe you could send them into a 'Dead-Magic Zone'. They'd explode, but then the zone would get a little bit smaller. Stuff like that.

They also look like Dr. Manhattan (sans pe**s).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 09 Nov 2017 04:23:50
Go to Top of Page

sfdragon
Great Reader

2216 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2017 :  08:35:25  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
....................I was going to ask if they could have been in the 3.x epic level book, but then I remembered that the only ones to mind there were colossuses constructs and cant remember a cerulean/eldritch/arcane power of some sorts golem there....

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7374 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2017 :  13:41:28  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

EDIT:
This was in response to your post above that one - you type faster than me. I'll get back to respond to this last one in a little bit.


Its a 'Sea gate', and I listed it in my one CKC article.

It HAS to be a Sea Gate, because the Ffolk and Northemn arrived by ship.

I've spread their arrival further along the timeline, with the MAJOR incursion being the one mentioned in the GHotR (two very large fleets - bent on destroying each other - were involved). The Gate is large, and permanent, but it only opens intermittently, during very powerful storms (electricity gets it going). It was also built by the Batrachi, by the way (ALL the Sea Gates were).

I like the idea of someone hooking another portal into the network at Shadulaur. I think that was part of the imaskari network (so connects to the mucklestones, and the other end also reconnects to a portal on one of the northern islands - thats how the Rus came over). We came to a lot of the same conclusions as you, back when we did the first Utter east thread - the Arkauins (really the Rus/Northmen) came south and started a lot of crap, and then got chased all over the place ('raiders' get away with what they do by staying mobile).

I need to post some stuff I think you'll find VERY interesting concerning Yakiria (canon stuff). They also tie into Nog and Kador a little bit, and the 'Savage Gods' of Zakhara (which I think you've used elsewhere). Interesting stuff - I don't know why I never read the whole article before (I focused on the geography bits previously). They also wrote it in such a way so that you could also use all the info in Birthright/Cerilia, which is pretty cool (I like the idea of adding 'Realms Lords' to all these Mar regions).





Actually, the Rus that go to Rashemen, I'm picturing more that they enter in at the Neverwinter Wood (Llewyrrwood). It still fits the north. Then a little bit later, some more Illuskans enter the same portal in Neverwinter Wood, and they disappear to Shandaular in Council Hills.

Then the people of Shaundalar are tinkering trying to learn more about their portal (at the command of Eltab?), because they know a portal exists, and they open it.... but this time its to Ulgarth and not back to Ashanath (where he wanted to go and punish the Rashemi with his newfound army?). This possibly opens up trade between the two, but also SOMETHING triggers a 3 way war between Ulgarth/Eltabranar/Mulhorand. Hell, for all we know, it was the machinations of the beholders in Veldorn or the Sarrukh in Azulduth behind the scenes. Ulgarth is wiped. Eltabranar is destroyed 2 years later.

Then later (348 DR), something happens with the portal that the Llewyrr exited and boom more northmen in the Shandaular area. They start raiding nearby. Mulhorand gets pissed and the raiders flee to Shadaular and try to open the portal to escape in desperation. They study the notes from previous people and realize how to open it again and boom.... opening to Ulgarth again... Northmen now in Ulgarth in 348 DR.

Then later again portal in the Moonshaes opens... exiting in Ulgarth, possibly the Ulgarth portal being on the ocean. They head south to the Utter East.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7374 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2017 :  14:09:21  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

From the Dragon #241 article on the Yakmen:
quote:
The expansion of the empire is in part driven by the yak-men’s relentless search for sacrifices, for they constantly make offerings to their god in the “manner elemental”: these offerings are either burned, drowned, buried alive, or thrown off a mountaintop, depending on which elemental form is being observed. Some say that these sacrifices allow yak-men temporary access to elemental magic; others claim that the sacrifices merely strengthen the Forgotten God’s hold over his followers.
So with all the other 'elemental' stuff we got going on, we got this righ straight south of the Ue (and one could even argue that Yakiria is IN the Utter East. At least part of it, anyway).

And a 'Faceless God'? I am going to go so full-blown GoT with that one.

They also make great use of Marrashi* as aeriel troops, and the 'princess' of the Marrashi is the consort of the Yakman emperor. VERY interesting stuff. Its like the two races are connected.

EDIT:
Oh, and legend has it that the main city (Imperial capitol) of Nathong used to be a flying city, but it hasn't moved off of its mountain top in centuries. The Yakmen supposedly send out spies EVERWHERE - Kara-Tur and Faerûn are both mentioned. Plus, we had that Yakwoman (or would it be a female Yakmen?) actions as ambassador to Waterdeep!

Speaking of which... I did my usual ADD thing while looking for this article, and wound-up going through the whole issue od The Dragon. There is a Greyhawk article in there that most here wouldn't bother with... and it contained a letter from Khelben to Mordenkainen. A rather friendly, almost familial letter, in fact. Khelben was even updating him on 'local politics' (and just WHY would Mordenkainen care about Waterdeep politics? Hmmmmmm?)

It appears one of my oldest theories may actually be on the money. Mordenkainen IS the real Khelben Arunson {because canonically, ours is 'an imposter').

EDIT2:
Now that I just put links to pics of Marrishi (because I myself had to go find what they looked like), am I the only one who thinks that gnolls would consider them 'angels'.



The Marrashi and gnolls have a link in GHotR, so yes to that last question.

c. –30400 DR
The Wasting Plague: In a conflict between the gnolls of Urgnarash and the rookery of Kookrui-Shara, shamans of Yeenoghu summon marrashi—spirits of pestilence from the Barrens of Doom and Despair—to blight aearee crops and spread a wasting plague among the avians. Decimated, many Aearee-Quor turn to the demon lord Pazrael for salvation.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

BadCatMan
Learned Scribe

Australia
335 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2017 :  14:28:53  Show Profile Send BadCatMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Finally got a chance to catch up...

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Let me ask you this.... were the Lord of Lands, Tides, and Flames portrayed as "GOOD" or were they simply portrayed as "orderly".


They're simply described as orderly. Nothing says they're good, nor that they're villainous, but I think the intention is to assume they're good.

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Also above you mentioned some of these people having weird deformities (third eye, scales, gills, etc...). Not that I'm a big fan of the races presented in races of incarnum, but would the Rilkan (with their scaly skin) fit with the region (not thinking they'd be the Mar, as they tend towards chaotic). Would the Rilkan fit in (the ones with the spikes who seek to attain "perfection")? Also, the idea of the Sapphire Hierarchs definitely would seem to fit the region.

Hmmmm, and as I dig more on the incarnum piece... those races are "reptilian" and they were created by the "Mishtai" a long lost race of people who were seeking perfection of form. So perhaps they were a combination reptile/humanoid folk, but not Sarrukh, who were also creating other subraces. Given your wonders above, they MIGHT fit as this race below Malatra as well.


TBH, I've never done more than skim Magic of Incarnum; it didn't grab me, it was too unusual to fit any character idea, nor have I had a PC wish to play it. From what I have read and seen, in its use of chakras and shaping raw magic/soul energy into items and how it's been adapted to the Realms by Eytan Bernstein (as raw magic and so similar to mana), I guess that, if you wanted to put it anywhere, it's a good fit for the Utter East, but I couldn't say how any one element would fit in. But yeah, the potential reptilian ancestry nad appearances of characters with scales and whatnot still makes it a good fit. On the other hand, I like psionics and it could be made to fit just as well.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

And Tartyron still confuses the crap out of me. Here I thought he wasn't bound either time, and you're saying he was bound both times. Why was he bound in the first place? Are the Lords of Order just into 'Bondage'?


He was bound the first time "for his chaotic schemes", whatever they were. He might have been bound the second time if you play the Circle of Order campaign. We might pretend one happened after the other, because it's possible. You know the Schrodinger's Cat experiment of quantum mechanics? Utter East chronology is like that, but more complicated. :D

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

No feedback on me putting Mahasarpa in the Sempadan region? its truly an awesome fit (right down to the river!) I want to also add the horse-headed Kinnara to the mix of beastmen, because its also very 'Indian' in flavor.


It is a good fit. I had thought it was expressly a part of Rokugan / Legend of the Five Rings, but looking again, it's an independent setting. It's a good basis of inspiration for filling out the Utter East or the hypothetical Indianesque lands of southern Kara-Tur and the Sempadan, even with a past serpentine empire.

Ultimately, the Utter East is a place where almost anything could be plugged in and the vague lore adapted to fit, which is what makes it most useful as a playable setting.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Wo Mai* was of a Mar (southern) bloodline! It all makes sense - the south would not join the empire peacefully, but somehow Wo Mai (the guy famous for hist 'Acorn' artifact) manages to seize the throne from the First Empire of Shou lung (otherwise know in the west as 'Anok-Imaskar'). So the Kao dynasty is a homage to the old 'Kao kingdom' (which was probably the last remnant of a Kao-AngMar Empire). The province of Kao-Shan is named after that last piece of the Kao Kingdom.


Nope. Nung Fu was the first emperor of the first proper Shou Lung empire, in its Third Age, not Anok-Imaskar (First Age) or the minor kingdoms of the Second Age (where Tan Chin arose). He received the Emblems direct from the Nine Immortals.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

And now I just realized something else - Tan Chin - an Imaskari emperor (and thats canon) - created the Dragonwall.

Out of a Celestial Dragon.

Celestial Dragons are part of the Celestial bureaucracy... they're gods.

An Imaskari, capturing a GOD, and turning it into a wall. Hmmmmmmm.... me thinks I found where the scepter went...*
Regardless, we have another clear case of an Imaskari Archwizard completely disrespecting the Celestial Bureaucracy - a group of gods. I can see now why they turned on him.


Oriental dragons aren't gods, they're high-level bureaucrats at best. AFAICT, Pao Hu Jen was merely a high-level or epic dragon.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I don't know... a thousand-mile long dragon sounds pretty godly to me.

Buuuuuut... I think they retconned/fudged that a bit somewhere (Dragonwall novel?), and said that the dragon was 'petrified', reduced to 'dust' (they ground him up?), and mixed with the mortar. And somewhere else they noted that parts of the wall have been destroyed over the centuries, regardless of the dragon's power within it, and those 'patched areas' do not hold the enchantment, and can be breached by normal means.

However, in the novels (IIRC), the Tuigan somehow managed to release the entire dragon (its 'spirit'), so that the entire wall became unenchanted (so, still a very big wall, but just normal stone now). Then in 4e, they just blew the damn thing up (which makes very little sense in terms of how the Spellplague worked, since the magic was already gone).


I did the calculation, the dragon was only said to be over 1000 li or 310 miles long. :D Ironically, the Dragonwall doesn't appear in Dragonwall, it actually appeared in Horselords. The novel says that the dragon's spirit was bound to an ordinary wall to make it stronger. The spirit's escape only breached a section, it didn't destroy the whole wall, so it's easily repairable, just no longer enchanted. The KTCS tells the story of the dragon being turned bodily into a wall, but also notes that Shou history is wildly exaggerated and made up. The whole campaign setting is unreliable narrators.

Am I the only one who likes the Dragonwall? A China-based setting was inevitably going to have a Great Wall, and the Dragonwall was as good an idea as it could be. It just didn't get the story it should have had. If it had been written like the Wall in a Game of Thrones / A Song of Ice and Fire, it would be more appreciated.

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

So, my thoughts wander into Eltabranar having a war with Mulhorand at the exact same time that Mulhorand swoops down into Ulgarth and decimates everyone. Then we have that Eltabranar extends over "most of the Eastern Shaar".


I noticed that, and mentioned it in the Ulgarth thread, but didn't know enough about Eltabranar to make something of it, and not its extent. It's too much of a coincidence to be, well, a coincidence. But it wouldn't be the first time poor tribes were collateral damage in someone else's war.

quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

-Regarding the Basal Golems...is it possible that we've been conceptualizing it incorrectly, in the golem is made of stone? Does anything in the text of the game or whatever actually say stone? One thing that makes me start to think that they're not is because one of the things they can transform into is a Stone Golem. If they're already stone, turning into Stone Golems would be a little redundant.

-With the way they randomly transform into stuff, and are composed of "mana", is it possible that instead of stone, they're really just magic given some kind of basic, corporeal form (a "magic elemental", if you will). The Spellplague was always described using blue imagery, and these golems are blue. Turning into "mystical sites" would be the magic diffusing into the land. Turning into a creature would be that magic taking a different form, a la a polymorph of some kind.


Their actual composition is unknown, but they have a rough look like they're made of stone or a stone-like substance. They're only blue if you play a blue faction; they can be red, yellow, pink, etc. I think they're painted in their side's colours.


Anyway, here's the Realm of Fire:
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Realm_of_Fire

BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki and Candlekeep Wiki
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7374 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2017 :  15:02:50  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

-Regarding the Basal Golems...is it possible that we've been conceptualizing it incorrectly, in the golem is made of stone? Does anything in the text of the game or whatever actually say stone? One thing that makes me start to think that they're not is because one of the things they can transform into is a Stone Golem. If they're already stone, turning into Stone Golems would be a little redundant.


-With the way they randomly transform into stuff, and are composed of "mana", is it possible that instead of stone, they're really just magic given some kind of basic, corporeal form (a "magic elemental", if you will). The Spellplague was always described using blue imagery, and these golems are blue. Turning into "mystical sites" would be the magic diffusing into the land. Turning into a creature would be that magic taking a different form, a la a polymorph of some kind.



That's actually how I've been picturing them for a while now. Once I found out that they "gathered mana" and turned into mystical sites and that they transformed into other creatures.... I've pretty much pictured them as a base spirit that acts as a conduit ... and in working as the conduit to bring another spirit creature to the world, they themselves fade back to the spirit world. The question becomes whether the things summoned from the mystical sites are physical or not. If they are physical, then I'd say they have a spirit "merge" with their own to boost their natural power (i.e. 1st level commoner gets a 6th lvl cleric's spirit merged with their own, now they're effectively a 6th lvl cleric)... and what happens to the original spirit that inhabited the body? Could it be that it actually gets "eaten"?

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7374 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2017 :  15:29:22  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@BadCatMan - well, we agree on many things, but I can say that the Dragonwall is not one. Honestly, if it weren't just SOOOO derivative of China's Great Wall, then yes... I'd love it (like you say, the idea of GoT)... but they've made it too derivative... even to the point of saying things like its one of the few manmade things you can tell from outer space, etc... The worst part is I'm not sure HOW to make it palatable now. Maybe if they had focused on things like GoT, that this is where soldiers were exiled to. Maybe also, this is where immigrants who wished to join Kara-Tur had to enlist and serve for an extended term (say like 8 - 10 years). Build up whole cities along the wall itself (which may exist actually, but I don't recall it in the lore), but also have these cities "segregated" from the interior. Throw in some kind of special ritual where selected individuals who have proved themselves are allowed to become citizens. Then add some kind of creatures that are constantly raiding against the wall, so that its not some sleepy post. Maybe there are ghosts/spirits of some great conflict who wish to invade Kara-Tur, and this wall was built to prevent them sweeping in.... but you kill them and they just reform the next month or something. Adds a lot of conflict to this wall, makes it a viable piece of the culture and makes some people resent it.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 9 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2018 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000