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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe

USA
361 Posts

Posted - 09 Apr 2004 :  23:51:49  Show Profile  Visit Sourcemaster2's Homepage  Send Sourcemaster2 an AOL message Send Sourcemaster2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
While perusing the tome City of Raven's Bluff, I came upon this dread enchantment. According to what I read, It "erases all magical knowledge from the wizard's memory, removing his or her spellcasting ability and making him or her zero-level." Does anyone know if this spell has been converted to 3rd ed., or if there is an other mention of it? The idea of a magic user being punished, or attacked, and losing both his knowledge and power is somewhat intimidating, and I'm interested in researching this enchantment.

But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth.

The Sage
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Posted - 11 Apr 2004 :  01:34:36  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm not entirely sure (since I don't have access to my books) Sourcemaster2, but I think that the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer may have had the 3e version of this spell printed in it. I'll have to check when I get home, just to be certain.

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Sourcemaster2
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361 Posts

Posted - 11 Apr 2004 :  06:57:56  Show Profile  Visit Sourcemaster2's Homepage  Send Sourcemaster2 an AOL message Send Sourcemaster2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm fairly curious about this spell, because it semms to fit a character idea of mine quite well. I was thinking of an apprentice mage/cleric of Mystra being possessed by a powerful evil artifact. The artifact uses its victim's potential spellcasting ability to channel its power. Through him, this device works havoc on his city, despite the efforts of various wizards and priests. To defeat the item, the city's archmage is forced to use an ancient spell(here enters Nystul's nullifier) to remove his magic, and therfore render the device powerless. Deviod of his powers, both arcane and divine, the character sinks into deep despair, leaving the city and roaming the mountains. There he discovers a gem dragon, and develops psionic abilities(since psionics are different than spellcasting, I think that they would work despite Nystul's nullifier). The adventure goes on from there, or it will once I finish with some details.

But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth.
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The Sage
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Posted - 11 Apr 2004 :  07:13:56  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As I said, I'll look through my Greyhawk material, although, given what we already know about the Nullifier (every time I think about this, Marvel's the Ultimate NullifierTM keeps popping into my head...), it shouldn't be to difficult to come up with our own conversion into 3e should the spell be absent from any official 3e material.

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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1189 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2018 :  18:20:35  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Senior Scribe Sourcemaster2,

You are correct that that is what happens. This is the fourth offense punishment for violations made in the Wizard's Guild of the City of Raven's Bluff. The punishment reads as:
quote:
Fourth Offense: Nystul's nullifier is cast upon the offending member. This ancient spell erases all magical knowledge from the wizard's memory, removing his or her spellcasting ability and making him or her zerolevel. This extreme penalty is visited upon those whose actions have disgraced the Guild and endangered the city and its citizens by their careless
disregard for its rules and regulations.


That is the last known update, in 2nd edition. It stands to reason that it is that way, minus wherever Raven's Bluff is as a city now post-Spellplague.

Best regards,



quote:
Originally posted by Sourcemaster2

While perusing the tome City of Raven's Bluff, I came upon this dread enchantment. According to what I read, It "erases all magical knowledge from the wizard's memory, removing his or her spellcasting ability and making him or her zero-level." Does anyone know if this spell has been converted to 3rd ed., or if there is an other mention of it? The idea of a magic user being punished, or attacked, and losing both his knowledge and power is somewhat intimidating, and I'm interested in researching this enchantment.


Robert McDonell
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The Masked Mage
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Posted - 28 Sep 2018 :  23:34:15  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As far as I know, that spell was never actually detailed.
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1189 Posts

Posted - 29 Sep 2018 :  00:25:21  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Master Mage,

Insomuch as a detailing being defined as per a proper spell definition, you are 100% correct. The most it was ever detailed was in the City of Raven's Bluff campaign expansion.

It is unfortunate though, isn't it? That would be a fantastic spell to see in detail, and a horrifically powerful spell. Just imagine if that was used against an epic archmage successfully by chance? Whew!!!

Best regards,




quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

As far as I know, that spell was never actually detailed.


Robert McDonell
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 29 Sep 2018 :  04:54:36  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I do not like that spell, and I can't see Mystra allowing the use of a spell that essentially removes someone's ability to use magic. That's an even worse punishment than the spell Laeral's Crowning Touch, which can only be cast by Chosen, and which has a one year duration. Laeral's Crowning Touch can result in a spellcaster losing all spellcasting ability, but that would require the caster to ignore what's happening as they continue to cast spells.

Laeral's Crowning Touch is from The Seven Sisters, pages 11 and 12.

I also have an issue with the existence of a spell that instantly removes all levels and abilities from someone and makes them a zero-level peon. That's a game-breaking effect, right there. They might as well have called it Power Word: Nerf.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 29 Sep 2018 04:56:07
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Ayrik
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Canada
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Posted - 29 Sep 2018 :  08:10:26  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
How is this spell any worse than feeblemind?

[/Ayrik]
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The Masked Mage
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USA
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Posted - 29 Sep 2018 :  09:20:20  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Feeblemind doesn't remove the abilities, just the mind behind them, which can be restored several ways.
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TBeholder
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Posted - 29 Sep 2018 :  12:20:45  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's a bit nonsensical in description, because it removes levels (like Enervation and other Necromantic spells), erases memories (like Forget and other Enchantment/Charm spells) - effects assigned to the opposing schools - and removes "spellcasting ability" which (if interpreted as something in addition to what the above parts accomplish) may intrude into Mystra's domain a bit too much, as Wooly noted.
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

As far as I know, that spell was never actually detailed.

Lists don't show it in Greyhawk sourcebooks, Dragon, or anywhere at all, so...
IMO it was an obvious manifestation of pearl-clutching via badly thought out DM fiat for which RPGA was infamous, and nothing more.

For similar spells actually existing in FR canon, there's The Curse of Forgetfulness (from Dungeon #18 and The Ruins of Undermountain), level 7 spell (enchantment/charm, reversible) with permanent duration. It makes the victim unable to memorize (or cast from scroll) spells, one more per day.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch

Edited by - TBeholder on 29 Sep 2018 13:08:00
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1189 Posts

Posted - 29 Sep 2018 :  13:55:34  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Master Rupert,

What though, if the spell were not created using the Weave, but the Shadoweave instead? Remember, after Bane died (sort of), Shar and Loviatar got along quite well. What if Loviatar, wanting to cause as much agony as possible, worked with Shar to create that spell? That would really enrage Mystra, and she couldn't do anything about it.

Thoughts?

Best regards,



quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I do not like that spell, and I can't see Mystra allowing the use of a spell that essentially removes someone's ability to use magic. That's an even worse punishment than the spell Laeral's Crowning Touch, which can only be cast by Chosen, and which has a one year duration. Laeral's Crowning Touch can result in a spellcaster losing all spellcasting ability, but that would require the caster to ignore what's happening as they continue to cast spells.

Laeral's Crowning Touch is from The Seven Sisters, pages 11 and 12.

I also have an issue with the existence of a spell that instantly removes all levels and abilities from someone and makes them a zero-level peon. That's a game-breaking effect, right there. They might as well have called it Power Word: Nerf.



Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1189 Posts

Posted - 29 Sep 2018 :  13:59:41  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Master Rupert,

My apologies for the second response to your comment: I forgot to comment on the second part of yours.

I run a sandbox, non-scaled campaign where you can run across anything, at any time, as long as it is relevant to the ecology of the Realms, i.e. dragons are where they are listed (generally), and so if you go there, you run across it. So, since the world, in my campaign, is that deadly adding in a spell like that for mine sounds fantastic; however, that being said, if I were running a scaled campaign/regular campaign, I think that having that spell would be crazy.

Add's a level of fear to even the most powerful though, huh?

Epic mage looks to his companions and says, "How do we know attacking this place is smart? We know the Loviatarian's in there are waiting for us, we know they are using shadowmagic, and we know that if they have something like Nystul's Nullifier, I could be doomed, and then so would you!" The other companions look at each other, "Let's retire. We're rich, we can open a bar, and call it good." *And so ended the campaign* lol

Best regards,




quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I do not like that spell, and I can't see Mystra allowing the use of a spell that essentially removes someone's ability to use magic. That's an even worse punishment than the spell Laeral's Crowning Touch, which can only be cast by Chosen, and which has a one year duration. Laeral's Crowning Touch can result in a spellcaster losing all spellcasting ability, but that would require the caster to ignore what's happening as they continue to cast spells.

Laeral's Crowning Touch is from The Seven Sisters, pages 11 and 12.

I also have an issue with the existence of a spell that instantly removes all levels and abilities from someone and makes them a zero-level peon. That's a game-breaking effect, right there. They might as well have called it Power Word: Nerf.



Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1189 Posts

Posted - 29 Sep 2018 :  14:02:14  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Master TBeholder,

Consider the Grand Puba of mind destroying spells (potentially): Mind Rape, from the Book of Vile Darkness. I see Mind Rape as commensurate with Nystul's Nullifier. It can completely, and irrevocably (I think minus Wish and Miracle) do anything to the mind, i.e. add in thoughts, memories, lore, and more.

Ugliest spell I know.

Best regards,



quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder

It's a bit nonsensical in description, because it removes levels (like Enervation and other Necromantic spells), erases memories (like Forget and other Enchantment/Charm spells) - effects assigned to the opposing schools - and removes "spellcasting ability" which (if interpreted as something in addition to what the above parts accomplish) may intrude into Mystra's domain a bit too much, as Wooly noted.
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

As far as I know, that spell was never actually detailed.

Lists don't show it in Greyhawk sourcebooks, Dragon, or anywhere at all, so...
IMO it was an obvious manifestation of pearl-clutching via badly thought out DM fiat for which RPGA was infamous, and nothing more.

For similar spells actually existing in FR canon, there's The Curse of Forgetfulness (from Dungeon #18 and The Ruins of Undermountain), level 7 spell (enchantment/charm, reversible) with permanent duration. It makes the victim unable to memorize (or cast from scroll) spells, one more per day.


Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
33624 Posts

Posted - 29 Sep 2018 :  15:05:53  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Master Rupert,

What though, if the spell were not created using the Weave, but the Shadoweave instead? Remember, after Bane died (sort of), Shar and Loviatar got along quite well. What if Loviatar, wanting to cause as much agony as possible, worked with Shar to create that spell? That would really enrage Mystra, and she couldn't do anything about it.

Thoughts?


That's even more problematic, actually. For one thing, the Shadow Weave was not a thing when someone dreamed up that spell. For another thing, the spell is attributed to Nystul -- a mage of Oerth, where Shar and the Shadow Weave don't exist. Thirdly, the Shadow Weave is a shadow of the real Weave, and thus less powerful -- so a spell that can trump a 9th level spell only castable by Mystra's Chosen cannot happen. Lastly, Mystra is a greater deity - she could restore someone's spellcasting ability if she chose; it would, in fact, be in keeping with her profile to do so.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
33624 Posts

Posted - 29 Sep 2018 :  15:16:14  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Master Rupert,

My apologies for the second response to your comment: I forgot to comment on the second part of yours.

I run a sandbox, non-scaled campaign where you can run across anything, at any time, as long as it is relevant to the ecology of the Realms, i.e. dragons are where they are listed (generally), and so if you go there, you run across it. So, since the world, in my campaign, is that deadly adding in a spell like that for mine sounds fantastic; however, that being said, if I were running a scaled campaign/regular campaign, I think that having that spell would be crazy.

Add's a level of fear to even the most powerful though, huh?

Epic mage looks to his companions and says, "How do we know attacking this place is smart? We know the Loviatarian's in there are waiting for us, we know they are using shadowmagic, and we know that if they have something like Nystul's Nullifier, I could be doomed, and then so would you!" The other companions look at each other, "Let's retire. We're rich, we can open a bar, and call it good." *And so ended the campaign* lol

Best regards,




If I was playing in a game and someone cast a spell that reduced my character to a 0-level character, it'd be the last time I sat at that table.

Think on this: if such a spell existed, half of the wizards of the Realms would be blasting away at the other half, trying to get their hands on it so they could use it against their rivals. And the other half would be doing everything possible to stop someone from getting that spell. You'd have a wizard war going on, and that would cause a lot of collateral damage -- enough that non-wizards would not want wizards around, at all. You would thus have wizards blasting away at other wizards and non-wizards trying to chase off or kill any wizards they saw.

And of course Mystra, whose portfolio wants magic spread as much as possible, is going to have an issue with everyone hunting down wizards, and she's going to have to do something about it.

Not only that, but if it could have that effect on wizards, what effect could it have on others? Maybe this one just targets wizardry, but if there's a spell that removes all of one type of class level, there's nothing saying other class levels can't be targeted.

This is a game-breaking spell, no matter how you look at it.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
33624 Posts

Posted - 29 Sep 2018 :  15:28:18  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Master TBeholder,

Consider the Grand Puba of mind destroying spells (potentially): Mind Rape, from the Book of Vile Darkness. I see Mind Rape as commensurate with Nystul's Nullifier. It can completely, and irrevocably (I think minus Wish and Miracle) do anything to the mind, i.e. add in thoughts, memories, lore, and more.

Ugliest spell I know.




An ugly spell indeed, but it says nothing about removing class levels. As written, the only way it can effect class abilities is to change a person's alignment -- which can have an effect if there are alignment restrictions. But even that doesn't reduce someone to 0 level. (And the spell's description explicitly says how those changes can be done)

Sure, memories can be removed -- but I'd say that the learned skills remain. In the real world, people who lose their memories don't suddenly forget how to walk, they don't have to relearn language, they can still control their bladders... And they are often surprised to discover skills they had no idea that they had.

Based on that, I would say that you could make a spellcaster forget they had ever cast a spell before, maybe even remove all the spells they'd learned -- but they're still a spellcaster, and if they get a chance to sit down and study, they're going to relearn those spells.

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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1189 Posts

Posted - 29 Sep 2018 :  17:08:47  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Master Rupert,

Ahh, I think I see what you mean. Since the CoRB expansion was made 1998, and Shadow Weave products were starting in c.2001, that is where it collides with a problem?

As to the Shadow Weave and places like Oerth, I do have a somewhat related question. Since Realmspace covers the Realms, how exactly do wizards/mages/priests gain access to their spells when away from the Realms? I totally get what you mean regarding a lack of Shadow Weave for Oerth, but it seems weird how when Realms casters leave, they can still cast. Though I must admit that my planes knowledge is my weakest area of study.

I do have another question regarding your third point: My only source as to the comparative power of weave/shadow weave magic is from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting on p58, that reads as follows...
quote:
Third, while the Weave serves equally well for any kind of spell, the Shadow Weave is best for spells that
sap life or muddle the mind and senses, and is unsuited to spells that manipulate energy or matter—and cannot support any spell that produces light.


It appears that the Shadow Weave is on par with the normal Weave, withstanding light based magics. Do you think that would still be the case with the Nystul spell (assuming for just a moment that it could be cast in the Realms, etc.)?

As to Mystra restoring someone, I definitely agree she could do that. Heck, she can practically do anything she like!

Thank you as always for the engaging dialogue!

Best regards,



quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Master Rupert,

What though, if the spell were not created using the Weave, but the Shadoweave instead? Remember, after Bane died (sort of), Shar and Loviatar got along quite well. What if Loviatar, wanting to cause as much agony as possible, worked with Shar to create that spell? That would really enrage Mystra, and she couldn't do anything about it.

Thoughts?


That's even more problematic, actually. For one thing, the Shadow Weave was not a thing when someone dreamed up that spell. For another thing, the spell is attributed to Nystul -- a mage of Oerth, where Shar and the Shadow Weave don't exist. Thirdly, the Shadow Weave is a shadow of the real Weave, and thus less powerful -- so a spell that can trump a 9th level spell only castable by Mystra's Chosen cannot happen. Lastly, Mystra is a greater deity - she could restore someone's spellcasting ability if she chose; it would, in fact, be in keeping with her profile to do so.



Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1189 Posts

Posted - 29 Sep 2018 :  17:15:14  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Master Rupert,

I can very much appreciate your perspective there. I've had a great many people agree with your position as well. In fact, so many so, that I "interview" (for lack of a better term) people before I offer a seat at the table, so I can make sure they get a full and complete idea as to what to expect in my campaigns. I think it is the only reasonable, ethical thing to do for sure.

I agree, and I think your idea as to a wizard war, or having factions (Harpers, CoD, EE, and others) looking to gain access to it for their own reasons is a fantastic idea!!! I am absolutely taking that idea and implementing it into my campaign. I will most assuredly cite you as the respectable source that came up with the idea, unless you want to remain anonymous (minus my players checking this out, haha).

I feel that spell should have some sort of work done to it to make it have a process. For example, don't make it a standard action spell, make it a True Ritual, that requires multiple casters, and a prolonged casting time (like one day, or more!) to ensure that it is not used in that way. This sounds absolutely awesome. See, this is why I love dialogue from here! I could see that spell coming from Jhaamdath, and being really ancient, or something like that.

What do you think about that sort of reworking of it?

Best regards as always,





quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Master Rupert,

My apologies for the second response to your comment: I forgot to comment on the second part of yours.

I run a sandbox, non-scaled campaign where you can run across anything, at any time, as long as it is relevant to the ecology of the Realms, i.e. dragons are where they are listed (generally), and so if you go there, you run across it. So, since the world, in my campaign, is that deadly adding in a spell like that for mine sounds fantastic; however, that being said, if I were running a scaled campaign/regular campaign, I think that having that spell would be crazy.

Add's a level of fear to even the most powerful though, huh?

Epic mage looks to his companions and says, "How do we know attacking this place is smart? We know the Loviatarian's in there are waiting for us, we know they are using shadowmagic, and we know that if they have something like Nystul's Nullifier, I could be doomed, and then so would you!" The other companions look at each other, "Let's retire. We're rich, we can open a bar, and call it good." *And so ended the campaign* lol

Best regards,




If I was playing in a game and someone cast a spell that reduced my character to a 0-level character, it'd be the last time I sat at that table.

Think on this: if such a spell existed, half of the wizards of the Realms would be blasting away at the other half, trying to get their hands on it so they could use it against their rivals. And the other half would be doing everything possible to stop someone from getting that spell. You'd have a wizard war going on, and that would cause a lot of collateral damage -- enough that non-wizards would not want wizards around, at all. You would thus have wizards blasting away at other wizards and non-wizards trying to chase off or kill any wizards they saw.

And of course Mystra, whose portfolio wants magic spread as much as possible, is going to have an issue with everyone hunting down wizards, and she's going to have to do something about it.

Not only that, but if it could have that effect on wizards, what effect could it have on others? Maybe this one just targets wizardry, but if there's a spell that removes all of one type of class level, there's nothing saying other class levels can't be targeted.

This is a game-breaking spell, no matter how you look at it.



Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1189 Posts

Posted - 29 Sep 2018 :  17:23:20  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Master Rupert,

I completely agree. I didn't clarify well there. I didn't mean to imply that Mind Rape removes class levels. I agree with the alignment based issue as well.

As to the memory issues, I disagree, unfortunately from personal experience. I received a line of duty TBI (traumatic brain injury) in the Army. Part of my rehab at Walter Reed was to relearn reading, basic skills, etc. The good news is that minus seizures now days, I did get all that back. So, perhaps you could use spells to piece back together the mind raped mind? Seems doable. I feel the spell could, and would, remove capacities to attack, cast spells, etc. Though, it seems reasonable to have those affects removed/reinstated by use of the Break Enchantment spell they mention, which seems reasonable.

As to certain things that are controlled by the autonomic system of the brain, I agree, so that things like bladder control, breathing, heart use, etc. would all still work fine.

Really interesting discussion here regarding this spell!

Best regards,



quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Master TBeholder,

Consider the Grand Puba of mind destroying spells (potentially): Mind Rape, from the Book of Vile Darkness. I see Mind Rape as commensurate with Nystul's Nullifier. It can completely, and irrevocably (I think minus Wish and Miracle) do anything to the mind, i.e. add in thoughts, memories, lore, and more.

Ugliest spell I know.




An ugly spell indeed, but it says nothing about removing class levels. As written, the only way it can effect class abilities is to change a person's alignment -- which can have an effect if there are alignment restrictions. But even that doesn't reduce someone to 0 level. (And the spell's description explicitly says how those changes can be done)

Sure, memories can be removed -- but I'd say that the learned skills remain. In the real world, people who lose their memories don't suddenly forget how to walk, they don't have to relearn language, they can still control their bladders... And they are often surprised to discover skills they had no idea that they had.

Based on that, I would say that you could make a spellcaster forget they had ever cast a spell before, maybe even remove all the spells they'd learned -- but they're still a spellcaster, and if they get a chance to sit down and study, they're going to relearn those spells.


Robert McDonell
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TheIriaeban
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Posted - 29 Sep 2018 :  17:35:15  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am not sure which was published first but I looked in the Wizard's Spell Compendium and Nystul's Nullifier wasn't listed. There is Block Advancement. That spell only prevents a wizard from increasing in spell ability as they gain experience (i.e. they still get more proficiencies/skills, they just don't progress in spell casting ability). It is permanent but it can be removed once the wizard proves that they are worthy of greater casting ability. I could see both Azuth and Mystra approving of this spell as long as it wasn't cast on every wizard out there. In the Secrets of the Magister, to punish a few mages that attempted to kill other mages at a MageFair, even Mystra herself only permanently feebleminded the wizards instead of stripping them of casting ability.

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cpthero2
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Posted - 29 Sep 2018 :  17:38:27  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Seeker TheIriaeban,

CoRB was published in 1998, the WSC was published in 1996. So, that makes sense why it was only listed in the CoRB expansion.

Best regards,



quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban

I am not sure which was published first but I looked in the Wizard's Spell Compendium and Nystul's Nullifier wasn't listed. There is Block Advancement. That spell only prevents a wizard from increasing in spell ability as they gain experience (i.e. they still get more proficiencies/skills, they just don't progress in spell casting ability). It is permanent but it can be removed once the wizard proves that they are worthy of greater casting ability. I could see both Azuth and Mystra approving of this spell as long as it wasn't cast on every wizard out there. In the Secrets of the Magister, to punish a few mages that attempted to kill other mages at a MageFair, even Mystra herself only permanently feebleminded the wizards instead of stripping them of casting ability.


Robert McDonell
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The Masked Mage
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Posted - 29 Sep 2018 :  18:37:55  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As for the Shadow Weave thing, that would make no sense, as Nystul was not from Faerun.
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The Masked Mage
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Posted - 29 Sep 2018 :  18:41:59  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As for it being detailed in a source, the ONLY possibility I can think of would be Polyhedron Magazine. Polyhedron is the main source of all things Ravens Bluff. I've read most of the issues but it is possible the spell is from the dozen or so I never bought and cannot find PDFs for.

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The Masked Mage
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Posted - 29 Sep 2018 :  18:46:45  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In regards to the weave and spellcasting while away from Faerun:

The Weave is not the source of all magic. It is the form and structure that has been imposed upon magic in Faerun by Mystra. When a mage from the realms goes elsewhere there is still magic to draw on - it is just not structured in the Weave as it is in the realms.

The opposite is also true. Coming to the Realms does not make other spellcasters unable to cast spells either.

Finally, to clarify your word usage. Wizard's do not "gain access" to spells. They create effects by manipulating magical energies in various specific ways. This is why the memorization.

Priests need access to their deity to be given spells to cast.

Big difference there.
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cpthero2
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Posted - 29 Sep 2018 :  19:10:04  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great Reader Mage,

What are your thoughts on wizards/mages from the Realms traveling to other places, knowing that the Weave is not present there, but still being able to cast magic? Dragon magazines #185 and 196 discussed this when it was discovered that Nystul (I believe it was Nystul), would visit with Elminster from time to time. I would assume in some capacity that Elminster cast magic while there. Do you think accessed the Weave from Oerth?

Best regards,



quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

As for the Shadow Weave thing, that would make no sense, as Nystul was not from Faerun.


Robert McDonell
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