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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
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Posted - 09 Sep 2017 :  23:41:22  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Okay, this has been in the same place all along - its a ruin, and it lies beneath Serpent's Cowl, according to Serpent Kingdoms. You can even see it on one of the official maps available HERE.

So why the heck did Mike Shley put it way north and east of that spot, up ON the Winding Water, near Yarthain?

I know some settlements moved around, but this time the settlement did not move - the ruins underneath it did! Does anyone know whats going on there? Was there some 4e/5e lore I don't know about? And he is using the icon for a SETTLEMENT. It doesn't appear to be a ruin any longer - did they create a new capitol/city and just give it the old one's name?

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
6094 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2017 :  15:19:46  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Its still southeast of the Serpent Hills, south of the Marsh of Chelimber and southwest of Evereska. However, that whole region is kind of a different shape to a degree. The forest of wyrms, high moor, serpent hills, marsh of chelimber, etc.. are all subtly off... which has happened in every edition change. Still, yeah, I can see where this city should be located roughly where the F is in forest of wyrms when comparing to the 3e maps from Serpent Kingdoms.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14387 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2017 :  23:20:48  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
But Serpent's Cowl is stated to be on top of the ruins of Ss'thar'tiss'ssun, and serpent's cowl has not moved - its been in the same spot forever.

His map shows Ss'thar'tiss'ssun (and it appears to be an 'active' settlement) at the top of the first loop of the Winding water, not far from Yarthain, nowhere near Serpent's Cowl. Its bizarre. The only possible explanation I can think of for this is that that is a NEW Ss'thar'tiss'ssun that the scaleyfolk have built, and named it after the original. I thought maybe someone knew of some lore to that affect.

The Scaled ones were heavily involved in some of the Nverwinter VG stuff (there is a Portal/Gate located near the southern tip of The Mere of Dead Men that leads to Samarach), so I thought maybe someone heard that there would be portals to Najara from the new Chult AP they are working on. I also note he made sure to mark 'Najara' on the map as well - you normally don't see non-human (especially 'monster') kingdoms so clearly marked on setting campaign maps. I find that telling - I doubt he would have done that if someone didn't have plans for the place.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 10 Sep 2017 23:22:41
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
6094 Posts

Posted - 11 Sep 2017 :  13:12:56  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

But Serpent's Cowl is stated to be on top of the ruins of Ss'thar'tiss'ssun, and serpent's cowl has not moved - its been in the same spot forever.

His map shows Ss'thar'tiss'ssun (and it appears to be an 'active' settlement) at the top of the first loop of the Winding water, not far from Yarthain, nowhere near Serpent's Cowl. Its bizarre. The only possible explanation I can think of for this is that that is a NEW Ss'thar'tiss'ssun that the scaleyfolk have built, and named it after the original. I thought maybe someone knew of some lore to that affect.

The Scaled ones were heavily involved in some of the Nverwinter VG stuff (there is a Portal/Gate located near the southern tip of The Mere of Dead Men that leads to Samarach), so I thought maybe someone heard that there would be portals to Najara from the new Chult AP they are working on. I also note he made sure to mark 'Najara' on the map as well - you normally don't see non-human (especially 'monster') kingdoms so clearly marked on setting campaign maps. I find that telling - I doubt he would have done that if someone didn't have plans for the place.



I'd label it more along the line of just seeing names on a map and not mentally linking the two.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14387 Posts

Posted - 11 Sep 2017 :  16:01:04  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ahhh, but you don't know the maps like I do. His 5e ones follow the original FR maps (and I am talking about the Fonstad atlas maps!) TO THE LETTER. In fact, I am amazed about how well they line-up (better, in a couple of spots, than mine do). And when something appears on HIS maps that wasn't on the Fonstad maps (like our Ss'thar'tiss'ssun), he took pain-staking measures to get it 'as accurate as possible'. His research (or someone directing him) in 5e is impeccable. So wherever he deviated from the originals, I find there must have been a reason. A few extremely minor things I chalk-up to 'cosmetics' (I do that as well, like "this river would work better if it bent a little this way instead"), but placing the name 'Najara' on the map, and then placing a supposedly secret monster capitol on it - in the wrong spot - just jumps out at me as a purposeful thing to have done. I just don't see him making a mistake like that. Not on that map.

He did completely resize the stuff from Monument of the Ancients completely wrong, but I'll forgive him that - its on the edge of that map, and its a VERY difficult region to get right (it changes in EVERY edition). I fixed that yesterday (then GIMP crashed, so I get to fix it again! Yay!)

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 11 Sep 2017 16:03:39
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