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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Sep 2017 : 17:03:50
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I hadn't really noticed until recently, but the dragonborn in the novels about Farideh often have names that are actually god names from Egypt and Babylon. For instance, Dumuzi is a name of a Babylonian/Sumerian god of Shepherds who was married to Inanna/Ishtar. Then I just noticed this morning that Mehen is Egyptian.
Not saying it means anything, but are any of the other names reminiscent? I find it interesting basically since these dragnborn are becoming entwined with gods of those pantheons.
A serpent-headed man holding a spear, standing in the prow of the Sun Boat, or as a giant snake coiled around it.In the Old Kingdom and in predynastic literature, Mehen, along with Set in his original form, fights Apep daily as the sun travels across the sky. Mehen wraps his coils around Apep, while Set strikes at Apep with a spear.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2017 : 17:11:23
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| I was reading an older BattleTech novel recently, and noticed that most of the people in this one military unit were named for Grand Masters of the Knights Templar. The names were sometimes modernized a bit, but they were clearly drawn from that list. |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2017 : 17:16:39
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| Curiously enough, Dumuzi's mom is named Uadjit. The main dragonborn of the Brotherhood of the Griffon novels (the one that is a paladin of both, Torm and Bahamut at the same time), is named Medrash, that I know it had something to do with Jewish religion. And the former Vanquisher (Tymanther's Dictator-High General-King) was called Tarhun, that is the name of a Hittite thunder god (curiously, Tarhun dragon's breath was a line of lightning). |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2017 : 17:22:35
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I would say its meaningless, and hints at a certain lack of creativity.
On the other hand, at least its not 'Pickle Bouldershoulder'.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 09 Sep 2017 17:22:52 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2017 : 18:13:28
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It could also hint as a genuine liking/appreciation for something. It's not at all uncommon for creative types to work in references to people or things they like, and thus pay homage to their likes and influences.
Heck, my FR stuff has contained a couple of BattleTech references... One of my Lords of Waterdeep has (non-explicit but still obvious to those familiar) BattleTech references in his write-up (particularly his tattoo and what he remembers of his backstory), and is physically modeled after a prominent BattleTech character. Though I left his true origin up to the DM to determine, for me, he's a former MechWarrior in the Davion Heavy Guards, who got transported to the Realms when ComStar's attack on the New Avalon Institute of Science during the 4th Succession War caused an experiment to go awry, briefly opening some sort of dimensional portal.
And in one of my Hooks, I named an awakened fox Davios -- another reference to First Prince Hanse Davion, who was known as the Fox.
Also, these references are not always obvious to those unfamiliar with the source material. The books I read with characters named after the Knights Templar -- I've read those books many times before, and never caught the references (though I did catch a couple others, like one referring to the Roswell Incident or another book where the characters were trying to capture "Professor McGuffin's device."). My recent rereads of those books was the first time I'd read them in most of a decade, and I wouldn't have caught those names if I'd not looked up info on the Knights Templar somewhat recently. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 09 Sep 2017 18:17:51 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2017 : 18:21:32
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Yeah, I'm not ascribing any meaning to it in the realms. However, it does curiously tell me something about the author, which is why I was asking. She apparently did some research into these old religions.
@Zeromaru
Yeah, Midrash appears to be something where you research the truth of something as it relates to the Torah.
Hmmm, and Tarhun...
In art Tarhun’s symbol was a three-pronged thunderbolt, which he usually carried in one hand while brandishing a club, ax, or other weapon with the other.
Makes me think about the relation between "real life" Enlil and Assur/Ashur ... and the idea that Assuran might be posing as Enlil. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2017 : 18:45:43
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Is curious because we find those homages in both, the Brotherhood of the Griffon novels (Richard Lee Byer's) and the Brimstone Angels novels (Erin's). Most of the stuff about dragonborn in the Realms was created first by Richard. Stuff like how the clans work, or that dragonborn didn't had orthodox arcane practices, or that they used piercings specific for each clans, were stuff first introduced by Richard in his novels. And we have names like Medrash, Tarhun and Vishva, as prominent characters in the Brotherhood novels. Erin said that she got most of her stuff from the Brotherhood novels as well.
So, either this was developed/created by Richard, or as an more general plan at WotC that got left in the air with the transition between 4e and 5e. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2017 : 19:07:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It could also hint as a genuine liking/appreciation for something. It's not at all uncommon for creative types to work in references to people or things they like, and thus pay homage to their likes and influences.
True.
But now that I know two authors were involved, this may have originally been RLB's idea that she ran with, or as Zero hypothesized, something that 'came down from WotC'.
And as I pointed-out at the end there, sometimes you can have TOO MUCH 'creativity' for your own good. Better homages/derivations then utter nonsense, IMO.
And now that you've 'called me out', I have to admit the main character in my one CKC article was based on Inigo Montoya from The Princess Bride. GOD, I LOVE that movie.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 09 Sep 2017 19:43:53 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2017 : 19:10:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And now that you've 'called me out', I have to admit the main character in my one CKC article was based on Inigo Montoya from The Princess Bride. GOD, I LOVE that movie.
There are far worse places to draw inspiration from.  |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2017 : 07:09:13
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dont look at me.
that movie had one of the best profexxion wrestlers in it... Andre the giant. rest in peace
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why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2017 : 18:37:06
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| Tymanther was built on the ruins of Unther, perhaps the names were picked up from the ruins. |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2017 : 19:21:50
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Those names are old, traditional dragonborn names (according to Uadjit in Ashes of the Tyrant). So, are names dragonborn have been using since they lived in Tymanchebar, the dragonborn nation of Abeir. So, those are not Untheran names picked up from the ruins.
Also, neither are "equivalent names" in a "parallel dimension"-sort of way, as the equivalent region to Unther in Abeir is Shyr, and Tymanchebar is from Laerakond (Returned Abeir), another Abeiran continent different to Shyr.
So, I guess is a "coincidence", destiny, whatever; and definitely, something Realms' authors didn't think about until Erin got Tymanther and began to build up its lore. Perhaps we could have learned more if the novel line not have been stopped, but... well, that's not possible. At least, not for now. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 10 Sep 2017 19:23:39 |
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ErinMEvans
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
294 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2017 : 17:04:39
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I hadn't really noticed until recently, but the dragonborn in the novels about Farideh often have names that are actually god names from Egypt and Babylon. For instance, Dumuzi is a name of a Babylonian/Sumerian god of Shepherds who was married to Inanna/Ishtar. Then I just noticed this morning that Mehen is Egyptian.
Not saying it means anything, but are any of the other names reminiscent? I find it interesting basically since these dragnborn are becoming entwined with gods of those pantheons.
A serpent-headed man holding a spear, standing in the prow of the Sun Boat, or as a giant snake coiled around it.In the Old Kingdom and in predynastic literature, Mehen, along with Set in his original form, fights Apep daily as the sun travels across the sky. Mehen wraps his coils around Apep, while Set strikes at Apep with a spear.
Late to this party, but I have more background info if you want it. |
www.slushlush.com |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
954 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2017 : 19:08:41
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| Please share Erin. I know we'd all love to get the real scoop. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2017 : 23:26:00
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quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
Please share Erin. I know we'd all love to get the real scoop.
I second the motion. |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2017 : 23:27:06
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quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
Please share Erin. I know we'd all love to get the real scoop.
This.
I have a theory, though. Call me mad, but I believe that whatever predecessors the dragonborn have, maybe are related with the ancestors of the Mulan.
Now, how this fits with the facts that dragonborn existed since prehistorical times in Abeir-Toril, and that Tymanchebar and Unther/Mulhorand are not "equivalent" (dimensionally speaking), its what beats me. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2017 : 11:05:31
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quote:
Originally posted by ErinMEvans
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I hadn't really noticed until recently, but the dragonborn in the novels about Farideh often have names that are actually god names from Egypt and Babylon. For instance, Dumuzi is a name of a Babylonian/Sumerian god of Shepherds who was married to Inanna/Ishtar. Then I just noticed this morning that Mehen is Egyptian.
Not saying it means anything, but are any of the other names reminiscent? I find it interesting basically since these dragnborn are becoming entwined with gods of those pantheons.
A serpent-headed man holding a spear, standing in the prow of the Sun Boat, or as a giant snake coiled around it.In the Old Kingdom and in predynastic literature, Mehen, along with Set in his original form, fights Apep daily as the sun travels across the sky. Mehen wraps his coils around Apep, while Set strikes at Apep with a spear.
Late to this party, but I have more background info if you want it.
Actually, yeah, I am still curious. One of the things that made me note it was I have been considering bringing back a lot of the Sumerian/Babylonian deities, but in the Shaar and not Unther. So, when I got to Dumuzi, I was decided to use Tammuzi (another name of the same god in our world) so as to eliminate confusion.
In all, I plan on having Ki (died in Abeir during the second Sundering), Inanna, Ishtar, Ningal, Ramman, and Tammuzi in the Shaar (and possibly in Ulgarth & Var the Golden... since I'm wondering if those areas didn't at least partially also transfer to Abeir). I may also have Ereshkigal, but have some confusion around her being the Raven Queen.
I'll also have the Shaaryan barbarian rain god Khass, and portray him as possibly the father of Ramman and Assuran.... and further heresies that make people wonder if he's Enki, Enlil, Anu, or some other being entirely. He'll look alien, with palm trees for fingers, coconuts for eyes, and a tortoise shell chest.
Here's kind of what I have written up for him.
Khass (also known as Enku, Khassu and Khanu): Shaaryan god of Clouds and Rain, male Fertility, Lord of the Palms, Keeper of Oases, Lord of Fishermen, Lord of Turtles. This god has primarily been worshipped by the Shaaryan people for the past several centuries and has been known little outside of the Shaar, the Raurin Desert, and the shining lands of Durpar, Estagund, and Var the Golden. Portrayed as a deity with palm trees for fingers, eyes that are giant coconuts, and an armored chest similar to a tortoise shell, there are whispers as to the exact nature of Khass. Some believe him a god, some a great spirit, some an archfey, some a primordial or elemental lord, some a powerful genie. There are various whispers as to his exact relationship as well to Ramman, Ishtar, and Ahorz/Assuran/Hoar the Doombringer. Some call him the father of the males (though some say only of Ramman) and sometime lover of Ishtar. Others call him some other form of familial relation (brother, cousin), whereas others say he is an aspect of Enlil, and some heresies say that Ramman and Assuran were split from him in the same manner as Tyche and Beshaba, but that somehow the original god survived. What exactly is the truth is unknown, and the church does not acknowledge such ponderings, for they feel the god will reveal the truth in time.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2017 : 11:13:09
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Why would the Dragonborns adopt deity names originating from the very human culture (Untheric/Babylonian/Mesopotamian) that is trying its best to exterminate the dragonborn nation? Odd.
/shrug
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2017 : 14:02:17
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The strangest thing is that those names are traditional:
they have used since they were living in Abeir. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Cyrinishad
Learned Scribe
300 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2017 : 14:11:43
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quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast
Why would the Dragonborns adopt deity names originating from the very human culture (Untheric/Babylonian/Mesopotamian) that is trying its best to exterminate the dragonborn nation? Odd.
/shrug
Perhaps because the Dragonborn ARE the original culture? ...and the Humans adopted the names from them? |
To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge. -Socrates
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. -Dr. Seuss |
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Many dragonborn of Tymanther have god names?
