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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Aug 2017 : 21:09:03
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Okay so originally Sebek was one of the Gods who invaded Imaskar with the other Mulan Gods, but in a 4e article Backdrop to Chessenta, we find out that Sebekar is the Son of Set and an Archfey called Mornarch.
So who is Mornarch, does Mornach exist in Tpril or its feywild, or is Mornach native ro Earths Feywild?
Also if Sebek came back to liberate Mulhorand what happened to Sebekar the nation of werecrocodiles and wererats in the Addler Swamp?
Is it a vessel kingdom of Mulhorand?
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2017 : 21:36:07
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Funny you should bring this up - while trying to find 'Nezram' yesterday, I came across a bunch of stuff about the Khaasta and Sarrukh (and their war) - seems that most of the werecrocodiles (and wereserpents, whatever the heck those are... Yuan-ti?) joined the Sarrukh in Okoth.
There was a major split in 'scalykind' over the Sarrukh betraying Sseth. Serpent Kingdoms. pg.115, rt. hand column, about the middle of the page. Set convinced Sebek to send his minions there from Sebekar.
EDIT:
Maybe 'Mornach' is a fey name for Neith, who appears to be an Egyptian 'primal goddess' (and said to be Sobek's mother, in one account). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 20 Aug 2017 21:49:53 |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2017 : 21:57:52
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I don't remember hearing all the Werecrocs fleeing to Okoth (which I doubt exists anymore, I can see it allying with High Imaskar and being conqueored by Mulhorand.
Still according to the backdrop to Chessenta, the Addler Swamp is now called Sebekar, a nation of swamp dwelling Lycanthropes.
So I'm wondering did inhabitants abaddon Addler Swamp to help invade Mulhorand?
I really advise reading the 4e article, along with the SCAG, Ashes of the Tyrant, and the Devil you know, for figuring out what happened in the Old Empires region.
Basically in it, it basically explains who Faerun religions in an attempt to absorb the faithful of the Mulhorandi and Untherite Gods, took on the symbols and elements of these religions acting as incubators for these ancient faiths.
So you can see where at least one location of the Mulhorandi rebirth came from, and the Chaos it would have caused in Chessenta's churches (as if the rebirth of Lanther wasn't a nightmare enough for Amaunator).
Waukeen absorbed Nethyr's faith (and dealt with Funerals instead of Kelemvor), Sharess dominated Sune's Church, Tempus kept the Militia men of Anhur going, including the vestments, Amauntator Ra (maybe Horus too), Ogmha preserved the secrets of Thoth.
So you can see how faiths survived thanks to opportunism that appears to have back fired on the parts of the Faerunian Gods.
I'd assume that it would be simular story in Mulhogm and Semphar, and other nearby regions, other Gods pick over the remains of the old faiths asorbing some elements to make things easier, only to keep a path for return open for those faiths accidentally. |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2017 : 23:29:24
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As for the werecrocks living there, they are part of the compact with Sebakar. When Pil'ti'lith made his pact with Set, Set compelled Sebakar to send and army of werecrocks to bolster the sarrukh armies against the khaasta. Those werecrocks remained after the other sarrukh killed Pil'ti'lith.
As Sebakar is an enemy of Set (or, more appropriately, his wayward son), I guess he don't mind leaving the werecrocks in Okoth when the deal with Set backfired after the fall of Pil'ti'lith, just to rub it in his father's face.
Okoth is a secret nation, beyond Set and Sebakar I doubt the rest of Faerūn (that isn't is a yuan-ti or a sarrukh or a naga) knows about about them. And as Okoth has portals to Chult and other sarrukh dominated lands, a potential Mulhorand vs Okoth war will turn Azulduth into a yuan-ti land. They can call reinforcements at will, basically. The sarrukh of 1300s were a pitiless race with a slumbering god, that's why they had to deal with Set. The Sseth of 1400s is an active god, totally reinvigorated. In that potential war, the ones at disadvantaged will be Mulhorand. Nearly all of the sarrukh of Toril (a Creator Race) are interested in maintaining Okoth alive.
But I really doubt the God-Kings will attack Okoth even if they are aware of it. They are too afraid of the Tymanther-Unther war (SCAG, p12) to expose their own lands to war. And that also means that they are not as strong as they want their Mulhorandi subjects to believe.
As for Mornarch, she is not mentioned in the 4e Manual of the Planes or Heroes of the Feywild, that are the sourcebooks about fey stuff. Your best bet to know about her is to ask BRJ, and hope he is not NDA-id in that respect (you can ask him stuff in the Chamber of Sages subforum). |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 20 Aug 2017 23:35:05 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2017 : 02:37:40
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| Yeah, I tried to find info too after rereading that entry last week when I was planning for Soorenar. I'm betting Mornach isn't defined and they made up the name. However, if you do find anything, I'm interested as well in a canon answer. Not burning the midnight oil to define Mornach until I have a reason to though. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2017 : 03:45:09
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I feel like I cited a source, and everyone just ignored it.
I don't see anything about Sebek and Set being enemies (but I am only looking at this one source) - I took 'compelled' as 'talked into', not 'ordered my mindless puppet', but whatever.
Either way, Sebek DID send the werecrocs (and others) to Okoth, and there they stayed. I don't know what were-smampies the article is talking about.
After the betrayal of Sseth, that bit in Serpent Kingdoms explicitly states that at least some of the other groups of scaled ones are VERY upset with the Sarrukh, including the Chultan Yuan-ti, so I'm not really seeing those guys coming to the aid of the Sarrukh after they backstabbed the Yuan-ti God.
You know, not only did we have half-dragons in The Realms, we had the uber-kewl Khaasta. Why the hell did we ever need dragonborn?
Khaasta are so kewl even the fiends think they're Kewl ("In uncharacteristic move, Demogorgon freed the Khaasta from his service" - when you can get a guy like that to love you, you must be pretty damn awesome!) |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 21 Aug 2017 03:47:14 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2017 : 04:30:24
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Yeah, :p In fact I referenced that one as well. However, some 4e sources, mainly the FRCG and BRJ's Chessenta article in Dungeon 178 overwrite and/or expand some of that info (like making Sebakar the son of Set, and transforming it into archfey instead of a demigod).
The 4e FRCG expands in the stuff of Sseth and Set. During (or after) the Spellplague, the loyalist sarrukhs of all Toril (yeah, all the other sarrukhs who live in Torilthat are like 18 guys---) sent a yuan-ti army to attack Okoth, killed the traitor worshipers of Set (including the albino emperor from Serpent Kingdoms) and seized Okoth for themselves. Sseth was fully awakened and restored, and the wereserpents and werecrocks were allowed to stay in the region, because the new sarrukh masters saw the utility of having them. The weres expanded the town of Buldamar (in the 1480s it was nearly a city). Those weres aren't related to the ones currently living in the Adder Swamp in Chessenta (those were the ones nearly wiped out and exiled by the paladins of Osiris in 3etold ya, the guy is a total jerk).
So, current Okoth is governed by sarrukh loyal to Sseth, and inhabited by lots of yuan-ti and were-swampies. They still are a secret empire, but as the 4e campaign started, were more akin the Illuminati of Faerūn or something like that...
As for the khaasta, because those are devils (or demons), not dragons. When they created dragonborn as a playable race, they wanted to create a true race of dragon-men. That's why dragonborn triumphed over half-dragons, dragonkin, and draconians, among others (this is explained in the Ecology of the Dragonborn article in Dragon 365). |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 21 Aug 2017 04:42:37 |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2017 : 12:42:15
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The SCAG doesn't mention Okoth, so we really don't know it's fate
But Set used to be the God worshipped their, so I see him taking it back, and the Sarrulk retreating to Chult, the werecrocs leaving to rebuild Sekras.
A protracted war with Mulhorand is something I don't see them wanting, because that creator race can't reproduce, and every one of them that dies can not be replaced, open war is not an option.
Also the werecrocs, wereserpents, and some of the Yuan Ti might side with Set and Sebek. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2017 : 04:40:41
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Didn't the kingdom of halflings in the Adder Swamp kill all the were-thingies?  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2017 : 04:48:33
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| There is no mention of halflings there in the 4e Chessenta article, but there is a kingdom of were-swampies... poor halflings. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2017 : 10:55:29
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| Man, Sebek really got a bum deal in D&D. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2017 : 13:38:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Didn't the kingdom of halflings in the Adder Swamp kill all the were-thingies?
If I had to bet... the halflings BECAME were-swampies (personally picturing more wererats for halflings, but hey, either direction). I can see Halflings juggling and bringing in folk to be entertained, and then on the full moon.... someone disappears while leaving. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2017 : 14:59:40
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The Halfings likely didn't get mentioned because they were bit players in the Swamp and with the Werecrocs having won the wererat-werecroc war, they likely rule the halflings too, leaving them semiautomous.
At least till the Sundering where the werecrocs and maybe wererats likely left the Addler Swamp for Sekras. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2017 : 18:46:57
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Good call on the Wererats, Sleyvas.
My thoughts as of right now: Most, if not all, of the werecrocs (and wereserpents) left for Okoth and got embroiled in all that crap (the war and the double-dealing). That left it wide-open for the wererats, who would have taken-out any were-scaleys left, and THEN moved onto Ursuma. By this point (5e), the wererats now have a 'secret kingdom' in the area, and are constantly looking to expand (they have several members now in other nearby settlements). Ursuma is their unofficial 'capital', and the wererats now send-out 'traveling troupes' of performers to entertain all over the Realms... which of course is their 'cover' to spread their 'secret empire' even further through their lycanthropy. Several other groups - nearly all of them 'bad' themselves - have become aware of what the werelings are up to, including the Yuan-ti, the Kraken Society, and the Red Wizards (they had the audacity to try and infiltrate Thay!) The one 'goodly' group that suspects something is amiss is the new Kingdom of Seven Shires (don't worry, if you haven't heard of it, YOU WILL  ). The Hin of that realm had friends and family in the settlement of Ursuma, and know something 'is not quite right' anymore. They are looking for a party of adventurers who can act discreetly and find out the truth.
The Harpers were tipped-off of 'suspicious activities' in the area, and sent a very junior member to check things out. he reported back that 'everything is fine and there was nothing to worry about'. He himself had been infected with lycanthropy while 'poking about', and has now joined their ranks. Thus far, the Harpers are unaware that THEY have been infiltrated (The Harper - Bravel Thimvort - has been very cautious and avoids going anywhere near any senior Harpers). He only has a 'lesser Harper Pin' for now, and although he is due for an upgrade by this point, he doesn't pursue it for obvious reasons.
Time to make an entry over at the CandleKanon.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 22 Aug 2017 18:53:03 |
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Sebekar and Mornach?
