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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14022 Posts

Posted - 19 Aug 2017 :  19:49:18  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
So, as I am working on this 5e map (which isn't even close to me showing a WIP), I am writing lore in my head, and I need a place to jot things down where they won't clutter other threads (which have already succumbed to massive cross-thread pollination).

First up, Ra-Khati. What? You've never heard of Ra-Khati? It was so important its on the back cover of the Fonstad Forgotten Realms Atlas (along with Khazari and Guge... what? You never heard of Guge?! Nevermind...) It was the focus of an important(?) 3-episode AP even*. It was so important that the Tuigan ignore it in the novels (although a group of them make an appearance in the adventures). It also got some weird, quasi-canonical lore in 4e in Open Grave, which I had disliked and planned to ignore, but have decided I may use the whole thing (since we now have a century to fill-in, why not?) Unfortunately, the only part I am going to have trouble converting/using is that a certain someone got a character's class wrong. But I can fix that...

Poor little Ra-Khati. Once a major trading 'hub' after the fall of Imaskar, now just a memory. Lets start with canon: It was doing just fine, and had a trade-city right outside its official borders - Kushk. In fact, The Iron Road was THE trade route between east and west for centuries (despite the high tariffs the Dalai Lama {don't ask} imposes). Things were going fine for awhile, even with the draconic problems plaguing the kingdoms (survivor-states) to the west. But the desert kept growing - the obliteration of Lake Aoskar (that name is non-canon) had left the Plains of Purple Dust in ruin, and the lack of water in the region was growing steadily worse, despite the best efforts by the surviving Sorcerer-Kings. Eventually a powerful bound efreet (Khalitharius) managed to free itself from the grasp of an archmage (Martek), and wreaked havoc while his 'master' was away battling other threats. Although greatly weakened by his other tasks, Martek managed to trap the Efreet 'for a thousand years', before sealing himself away to recover from his ordeals. But the damage to the barely-surviving Kingdoms had been done, and as the land dried-up, so too, did the life of the realms. This is all covered in the Desert of Desolation AP.**

A thousand years later and the only remnant of the 'Kingdoms of the Raurin' is the citystate of Solon, now ruled by a Monk named Ambuchar Devyam, and Solon itself is dying husk of what was once a burgeoning empire itself. Ambuchar slowly turns to evil (some think it was a curse in the ruins of Solon, which is actually close to the truth - he uncovered the phylactory of Tan Chin, the 1st emperor of Shou-Lung, and was 'possessed' by the Ghost {Suel} Lich). He eventually attacks Kushk - the only worthwhile target nearby, and enslaves the few remaining citizens that the waning city still had. The Dalai Lama fears (and rightly so) an attack on Ra-Khati itself is imminent, and cuts the ancient chain-bridge that crosses the Jumpa Gorge. This is how things stand, pretty much, at the outset of the Hordelands adventures, FRA1-3, which is maybe a dozen years after Kushk was destroyed.

Those adventures happen, and it ends with Princess Bhrokiti of Ra-Khati and Prince Hubadai (Yamun Khahan's son) having a kinda 'thing' for each other (The Tuigan actually help the good guys in this, because this is more of 'vs evil magic' kind of thing, and Tuigan HATE magic). Supposedly it all ended well... supposedly...

Fast forward to 4e and the lore in Open Grave. Turns out they didn't quite 'kill' the ultimate evil, Tan Chin. But the names are slightly different (because technically, the stuff under the Hantumah entry is 'core'), so I can run with that. Instead of saying 'Raja Thirayam' = Abuchar Devayam (Tan Chin), I am going to say that Thirayam was a descendant (grandson?) of Ambuchar Devyam, which may sound weird on the surface, but we had lore in the old Utter East thread (at WotC) pertaining to the nature of Tan Chin, and Ambuchar. Tan Chin is a type of lich that 'possesses' people, but unlike your typical Suel lich, he has figured out how to leave said 'hosts' for a time, and even use other hosts, allowing him to have multiple personas, and also keeping such useful bodies around for much longer (the lich 'riding' the victim burns-out their life energy - they age much more rapidly, so most 'hosts' are not good for more than a decade, normally). He really liked the Monk Abuchar's body, and tried to use it as little as possible. The Monk thought he was suffering some sort of illness or curse, and had 'blackout periods' (and it distressed him when he heard how much suffering he causes when he 'blacks out'). Eventually, the monk became skilled enough to achieve Diamond Body, which negated the aging effects of Tan Chin 'riding' him. ANYHOW, that wasn't Ambuchar (who may still be alive), it was his grandson or some-such, who actually became a willing disciple of Tan Chin (after he uncovered his final phylactory- the same one his grandfather had found years earlier). Turns out, old Tan Chin wasn't nearly as 'dead' (re-dead?) as folks thought (the canon of the modules is superceeded by the quasi-canon of the 4e source, in this case).

Raja Thirayam takes over Ra-Khati in a whirlwind surprise attack, and turns many of the people into undead. He calls his new kingdom 'Hantuma', and it gains a fell reputation for many years (most of the 'lost century', in fact). There were 'four companions' that challeneged his rule, and they were, in turn, made into his undead servitors, and became his chief lieutenants, known as 'Sceptenars'. Bhrokiti is now called VasaBhakti, and probably doesn't remember much about her former life.

There are three other, unnamed and undetailed Sceptenars, and I would assume Hubadai is one as well (he would not have abandoned her). We could also assume the other two were probably 'Westerners', and part of the adventuring party that tried to kill Tan Chin in the AP, but they could actually be almost anybody. Since the first two are 'royalty', it might make it fun to have them be 'of royal blood' from Semphar & Murghôm. Tan Chin does some magic regarding 'royal blood' in his own regard, so he may have reasons for choosing such people. I am starting to see a lot of Orochimaru (Naruto) in Tan Chin, right down to the 'Curse Marks' (Stamp of Tan Chin). In fact, in some ways, the similarities are striking (and since those APs came out 5 years BEFORE Naruto, I would say Troy Denning or Hasbro might want to check into that).

That's the history, and its 98% canon (I may have 'flavored' certain things, but none of it goes against any canon, in any source, even when the sources themselves are inconsistent). Now here comes the new stuff: Sometime just before the 2nd (3rd?) Sundering, 'something' falls from the sky. Maybe its a piece of a primordial. Maybe its Roseanne Barr's underwear... no-one knows for sure. Whatever it was, it hits the central part of Hantumah (formerly Ra-Khati) and creates a massive crater, destroying most of that country and the surrounding area. One thing that managed to survive was the old city of Kushk, which was resettled and is now the home of the 'Resistance', The Lighbringers (that part is also from Open Grave, but the 'nearby valley' I turned into Kushk).

Vasabhakti is still 'alive' - she was in her own 'southern capital' of Khatiroon when the meteor struck. The status of the other three Sceptenars is unknown. The newly-formed lake (where the mountains use to be) is a foul and evil place, and the Lightbringers still have their work cut out for them. As for the lake itself, Shou-Lung seized the region (they always considered Ra-Khati 'theirs' anyway) and built a canal to to Brightstar Lake in just five years (I actually researched canals heavily, and found out not only is this possible - the ancient Chinese built the Grand Canal of China - a whopping 1794 miles long! - in just FOUR YEARS).

So I am taking a realm that was useless, very similar to nearby Khazari, and also redundant with both the far-better detailed Tabot and the 'legendary' Langdarma in FR lore, and putting it to insanely good use, as both a great adventuring area (although a bit redundant with Thay... but without the Zulkirs/Red Wizards!), and a way of having the Shou be able to access the Sea of Fallen Stars without depending upon that silly Gate in the Dragonmere (which probably blew-up during the Spellplague, because it hasn't been mentioned since 3e). It was also a region that had several small (actually large, when you think about the size of FR maps) lakes, so the fact the crater filled-in rather quickly from the run-off makes sense (it still has mountains on at least two sides).

So ends my "Ra-Khati: We hardly knew ye".


*I never noticed - Troy Denning had written those adventures.
** I slightly respun what went on with Martek. In the official AP, he had sealed away the Efreet for a thousand years, and then put himself in suspended animation, so that adventurers can come along a thousand years later - when the efreet finally got out of his imprisonment - so that Martek himself can confront the efreet and destroy it once and for all. One HUGE plot-hole (and this was written by the Dragonlance authors!): If he could defeat the efreet all along, why the **** did he go to sleep for a thousand years?

So I added-in that stuff about him being exhausted, and just arriving home from 'other battles'. He needed a thousand-year nap to feel good-enough to finally take-out the efreet.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 20 Aug 2017 03:40:02

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14022 Posts

Posted - 19 Aug 2017 :  21:51:39  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Time to redraw said crater. After some research, I determined that for the crater to be the size I made it, the object would have had to have been at least 6 miles wide (and thats moving at a relatively slow speed). That would have been a 'planet killer'.

I am neither an author nor a game designer - I answer to a much higher authority. Science.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Zeromaru X
Senior Scribe

Colombia
656 Posts

Posted - 19 Aug 2017 :  22:49:35  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That seems interesting. Didn't knew the Khatiroon stuff was related with Realms stuff... yet again, most of the 4e Core world was Realsiam until they made its own thing instead.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14022 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2017 :  04:09:36  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I got that from the guy who wrote it - Brian James. He pointed it out to me, otherwise I would have never found it myself. He changed things up a little to make it 'core'. Like I said above, we have a whole century to take the name-fudging and have it all make sense (Solon itself apparently became 'Dukkharan', so we'll just say Solon became the capital of a new kingdom under Raja Thirayam). The one thing he did that I thought was odd (at the time, but I've grown to embrace it) is that instead of the usual 'official stance' of TSR/WotC (and just about every other RPG company I know) that 'the party won' in the AP's, he decided they failed. I took that, and re-spun it sleighty so that they were only partly unsuccessful - they manage to trap him back in his original phylactory (the other four 'black artifacts' {and BOY, do I have some nifty lore to go with those!} were horcruxes {sorry, HP LOL}, which function as 'auxiliary phylactories', so that you would have to destroy ALL FIVE to destroy the lich). They only destroyed four in the AP, because they only knew about the four. Thus, I make it so that they succeeded... but they didn't. Everything works.

And I found a third 'royalty' in DoD - Princess Shadalah, so now I've decided to go hard with the 'Four royals' thing (because the fourth will be a prince of Murghôm... just like a certain other 'dark and shadowy figure' from FR's past). I even created some new Realms etymology (For example, 'Myr' means 'dark' in an ancient Fey dialect, and since 'fey' is linguistically equivalent to 'Latin' in the RW - it is at the root of many languages - it all works. Oh, and Fey and Latin are related as well... because they are both based of ancient Celestial). Introducing Khulzadrah Akroon ('Prince Akroon'), second son to the Khull (King) of Murghôm. He studied at the Citadel of the Old Man, and was a deadly assassin & scoundrel... until he joined the other four royals to take down Thirayam. Now he is an Animus (intelligent undead) - a Sceptenar like the rest (if he yet 'lives').

Hubadai the Warrior
Bhrokiti the Mage
Shadalah the Healer (priestess)
Akroon the Rogue

It doesn't get more 'D&D' than that.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Zeromaru X
Senior Scribe

Colombia
656 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2017 :  07:58:46  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This topic is about the general changes for the 5e map, didn't it? So, we can share ideas for other areas as well, right?

I want to develop post-SS Halruaa. Something I have to thank the SCAG is that sparked my curiosity over areas of the Realms that I didn't gave a second chance in 4e. Have you (any of you) any ideas for this place? Or can I freely develop it?

As for the changes in terrain, we have a few stuffs to work with. The Spellplague destroyed part of their Walls (the mountains). Specifically, two of the mountain paths. The North Wall Gap, the Nath Path and the Azhul Pass are the ones that remain currently. We know also that Akhlaur Marsh was expanded. It now connects to the sea. Chasolné is intact, but part of the Bay of Pirates became an earthmote (the headquarters of the Five Companies). I want to preserve this one.

We also know that Mystra's temple in Mount Talath was destroyed, but replaced by a replica made of crystallized Spellplague. Now that the Weave has been repaired and the Spellplague... mmm, healed (for a lack of a better term), I want to preserve the crystal temple as well. Also, we know Halarahh was destroyed during the Spellplague, and oddly enough, it is the only Halruaan city not mentioned in the 4e FRCG. Maybe... was the only city the Halruaan wizards couldn't save? They used the power of the Spellplague for the transposition to Abeir (and also, for transplating the zone they were replacing into the Shadowfell). So, the mages who did this feat of magic... likely they didn't survived (the Spellplague either mutated them or killed them; not even the aboleths of the Abolethic Sovereignty could withstand the Spellplague unscathed...). Maybe Halarahh was the focus of the spell, and because of that was destroyed and remained behind in Toril?

mmm...

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14022 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2017 :  15:06:43  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No, I haven't put a lot of thought into Halruaa. I think maybe there was a discussion about it a LONG time ago, and some of us were trying to figure-out how to 'bring it back' (obviously that was during 4e), and I had a couple of ideas, like 'cloaked' flying citadels, and 'hidden enclaves' in the mountains, etc. Nothing to complicated.

Since 5e came around and 'its back', I haven't given it any thought other than what I did to the map - I actually took away MORE land than the 4e map did! However, I had my reasons for that - it balanced out with that mountain range that needed saving (because to have a MASSIVE mountain range be completely submerged, and NEARBY 'flatlands' still be above sea-level was ridiculous, IMHO). However, I am going to 'bring back' quite a bit of it - something closer to what the 4e maps showed (+the mountain range: 'the west wall').

You know why it 'blew up', right? See that lake there? That's a CRATER*. There are a LOT of them in FR if you know to look for them. I had always been guessing about what made them, but now we know at least some of them were made by 'parts of primordials falling to earth'. You should run with that. Not sure how to spin it (something 'went to Abeir'? Just exploded? Burst free?) - I'll leave that in your good hands.

And YES, other people are welcome to put down their ideas for places in FR not yet covered 'in canon' (so stuff here could hopefully become 'CandleKanon'). I know Dazzler already has his own Old Empires thread.


*There is another one almost exactly like it in Returned Abeir (Lake Glaur in Gontal), which is what gave me the idea of swapping-out Halruaa for Laerakond in the first place.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 20 Aug 2017 15:08:27
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Zeromaru X
Senior Scribe

Colombia
656 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2017 :  15:31:23  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dazzler topic is really good. Sadly, it goes beyond my knowledge of the Realms (that is mostly limited to the post-Spellplague Realms, and specific, limited topics before that). So, while I will comment there when the stuff I know can help him, my comments there will be limited.

EDIT:
You know? Re-reading the SCAG, the survival of Halruaa makes no sense... it says:

"Because of the foresight of their divinations, Halruaan wizards were able to use the raging blue fire that followed Mystra's death to propel their nation safely into the realm of Toril's twin, Abeir (displacing part of that world into the Plane of Shadow)."

So, what the heck was the land that remained behind on Toril? (Because there was land there). I was believing they had switched their lands for those of Abeir, and that were those Abeiran lands the ones that transformed into the Plaguewrought. But the SCAG says that they transported their whole country to Abeir, while sending the equivalent lands in Abeir to the Shadowfell... so, what are the Plaguewrought Lands? And what happened to the equivalent lands in the Shadowfell?

No, no... I will don't go there. I'm going to assume the SCAG is drunk and devise a more logical solution...




Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 20 Aug 2017 15:47:58
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14022 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2017 :  16:42:32  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes, as I've said, THEY left more 'flat ground' then I did. I approached it logically, and scientifically. I can do no other.

But, since we are on this topic, and you DID ask me if I 'had any thoughts'...

Some stuff was shifted. Let us take RW (and I will call these 'theories' just so I don't ruffle feathers, even though I know people who are/were involved in some of it). Our gov't (The U.S.) have 'protocols' in-place in case of a planet-wide disaster (which unfortunately include its own population rising up and trying to take it down). This is confirmed - you can lookup videos of 'FEMA drills' on Youtube. they prepare for every scenario you can think of (including 'zombies' and 'alien invasion'). Now that I got that out of the way (and probably irked a few people), now I can make my point - a Government comprised of highly skilled, POWERFUL, professional people WILL prepare any number of contingencies. And in the case of Halruaa, we are talking about a group of people who survived one of the worst disasters in Torillian history.

So I've established its entirely possible they had these 'protocols' in place. In fact, the SCAG confirms it. Now - taking RW into account here - how many of those 'mighty archmages' are thinking about how to save some tiny farming community, eh? They are going to save what they feel needs to be saved to continue their culture, at all costs... and that means there will be lots of expendable, 'acceptable losses' (casualties) in those types of situations - people who are 'more trouble than they are worth' to save. That's what Halruaa would be up against. That's why I allowed for ALL the known communities to be saved, one way or another. However, there are hundreds - if not thousands of smaller settlements and structures all over the place that we never knew about, that the Archmages certainly wouldn't give an Osquip's arse about.

This opens up all sorts of interesting possibilities. First off, multiple protocols. Some settlements or super-structures may have had a set of older contingencies - maybe some sort of 'force field' effect (*cough* Microlar *cough*). Newer or 'upgraded' places - like probably the capital - would have the 'latest & greatest' magitech available, including an energy-absorbing (powered) uber-teleporter. One that could absorb multiple types of energy generated by a catastrophe (including kinetic) and use it to save as many people as possible. This leaves us with a situation where a lot of the more important stuff "left and then came back", which is the canon we have. It also opens up the door for speculation about those few places that didn't leave, but rather, 'remained hidden & protected', somehow. We could even say at least one locale had a 'temporal shielding' effect; a system which would 'suspend it in time' until such a time when things were 'restored to relative normality' (they never would have guessed that would have taken a century!)

And finally, Second: All those poor bloody bastards who were 'left behind'. Sure, most of them would have died. Hell, some of them might have resorted to doing some terrible things (cannibalism?) But humans survive - its what we are best at. What happens when all those struggling (primitive?) communities that managed to pull themselves together during the 'century of suckage' find themselves confronted with a group of gleaming, shiny 'leaders' who say, "We're Back!"?

You'd think a bit of 'anti-magic resentment' would have creeped-in, wouldn't you?

NOW, take all that logical hypothesizing and do whatever the hell you want with it (including just ignoring it, if you prefer).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 20 Aug 2017 16:49:05
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Zeromaru X
Senior Scribe

Colombia
656 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2017 :  18:07:05  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, I ask because of what I said, my knowledge of the Realms pre-4e is limited (and dollar is quite expensive in my country right now, so buying all the books to learn is out of the question for a time). So, while I can (and will) provide the post-4e knowledge, I appreciate a second opinion from someone who knows pre-4e stuff. And, if someone is working in the same area as I, we can join forces instead of making two or more different ideas about the same place.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

magitech available


This is one of those questions I have. I bought the 3e book, because I feel that, given it was the more updated version, I would have answers. It was also the expensive one (15 dollars is not much... but with the price of the dollar here, is much), mind... so, no more books for Zero for a while. I wondering now If it would have been better idea to buy the 2e one instead.

Nonetheless, to the point. I don't feel the 3e book answers this: what was the level of the magic and technology of the Halruaans prior to the Spellplague? I feel they were not so advanced technologically (that one was Lantan). Their "skyships" seems to be akin to zeppelins...

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

They are going to save what they feel needs to be saved to continue their culture, at all costs... and that means there will be lots of expendable, 'acceptable losses' (casualties) in those types of situations - people who are 'more trouble than they are worth' to save. That's what Halruaa would be up against. That's why I allowed for ALL the known communities to be saved, one way or another.


The problem is the capital, that it was destroyed in 4e. All other settlements from 3e aren't mentioned. Except Yaulazna, that was saved by a barrier and became a mobile earthmote with pirates of the sky... yeah, the idea its odd, but cool.

So... mmm, perhaps the capital was something that went awry while using their "protocols" and it blew up, remaining in Toril despite the wizards efforts? (The Spellplague was no normal magic, so its possible). Same for Mystra's temple in Mount Talath.

I like the second option... but it contradicts a lot of canon. Halruaa was the second worst Plagueland (the first one was the one south of the Vilhon Wilds). Those who survived most likely turned into plaguechanged horrors, or were killed by the Aolethic Sovereignty or the Order of the Blue Flame in the ensuing years. Those who survived that would have to flee the are in order to do so. However, among the descendants of those, mmm... yeah, those will hate the Halruaans for having left their grandparents (or themselves, if dwarves or elves) to die.



Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14022 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2017 :  22:22:01  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
5e back-peddled on a LOT of things, most especially Halruaa (which was said to be 'entirely destroyed'... at first). Later we learned (as they began the panic-stricken back-peddling) that 'some things may have survived'. I think we may have even asked Ed about it, in his threads here, and he gave us one of his typical cryptic, "all may not be as it appears" type answers.

Thus, we can pretty much ignore 4e canon on certain things, if we want. Basically, we should consider it all 'in-setting' information (uncertain reporting). There was BIG explosion, and then the capital wasn't there anymore. Thats what people saw. Anything else was pure assumption.

Now, we can run with that as well. Suppose this 'magictech generator' they had hooked up to power their uber-teleporter got overloaded? And what typically happens when things get overloaded? Real world, they tend to blow-up. In a magic world, where spells are concerned, it usually means that the desired result was over-shot because the spell was empowered (all effects increase). Maybe they were only supposed to go to a local 'pocket dimension' until things simmered down, but the pure power poured into their magic is what pushed them all the way to Abeir.

Or maybe, the capital went somewhere else (the feywild would be nice - the Shadowfell is over-done. So MANY FR cities wind up there LOL). Hell, it may have even wound-up in the Outer Planes somewhere (I'm thinking the Outlands, but it could have been anywhere). What if it returned from a lower plane and all the 'head honchos' were Tieflings now? Orrrrr.... hmmmmm... someplace cold. Really COLD. Isn't there a frozen layer in the Nine Hells? Stygia? Having them come back in as tall blue dudes with potent ice-magic might be kinda cool. Create a new apartheid situation, now that Dambrath next door is no more. (Did I just recreate the Kree of Marvel Comics? LOL!)

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 21 Aug 2017 03:52:01
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Zeromaru X
Senior Scribe

Colombia
656 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2017 :  01:13:15  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh, I see why we aren't in the same page. It was my fault, sorry. It seems I didn't spellchecked, so I said "are" in place of "aren't" (english is not my native language )

What I was trying to say before my terrible english got in the way is that the capital is the only city described in the 4e FRCG, alongside Mystra's temple in Mount Talath. The other settlements are the ones not mentioned. None of them, at all. So, while I share your idea that the Halruaans obviously didn't saved all settlements (the small settlements of those farmers? The ones near to the frontier? Left to die and obliterated), the capital remained to be obliterated as well.

I was wondering why the capital was the only important settlement left to die. You gave the answer, even if you didn't understand the question

They didn't left it on purpose. They couldn't take it with them. The Spellplague wasn't a normal wild magic surge, after all. It was an explosion of raw magic mixed with Far Realms stuff (according to LFR, but I'm going to use that). Something the wizards of Halruaa, no matter how powerful and wise they were, couldn't control. Using the very power of the Spellplague to power the transposition to Abeir was their doom, even if it was the only option they had. I can imagine the Netyarch and the other most powerful archmages dying in the process as well. And a lot of the ones that weren't involved in the ritual mutated as plaguechanged horrors. The capital was forcefully left behind, a ruin full of undead and with that tree-like being in its center...

I can picture current Halruaans trying to repair it in current canon year (and fully repaired in 1500), but I'm going to leave the tree-like being as well. "Its just a tree, what is the worst that can happen...? *killed by tree*".

And yeah, I know they back pedaled. Is kinda dumb they realized using the Realms as the core world will alienate the fans, yet didn't realize that changing stuff the way they changed it would have the same effect... but I'm going to use the 4e stuff unless specifically contradicted in a later source.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 21 Aug 2017 01:17:38
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5803 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2017 :  02:24:09  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

This topic is about the general changes for the 5e map, didn't it? So, we can share ideas for other areas as well, right?

I want to develop post-SS Halruaa. Something I have to thank the SCAG is that sparked my curiosity over areas of the Realms that I didn't gave a second chance in 4e. Have you (any of you) any ideas for this place? Or can I freely develop it?

As for the changes in terrain, we have a few stuffs to work with. The Spellplague destroyed part of their Walls (the mountains). Specifically, two of the mountain paths. The North Wall Gap, the Nath Path and the Azhul Pass are the ones that remain currently. We know also that Akhlaur Marsh was expanded. It now connects to the sea. Chasolné is intact, but part of the Bay of Pirates became an earthmote (the headquarters of the Five Companies). I want to preserve this one.

We also know that Mystra's temple in Mount Talath was destroyed, but replaced by a replica made of crystallized Spellplague. Now that the Weave has been repaired and the Spellplague... mmm, healed (for a lack of a better term), I want to preserve the crystal temple as well. Also, we know Halarahh was destroyed during the Spellplague, and oddly enough, it is the only Halruaan city not mentioned in the 4e FRCG. Maybe... was the only city the Halruaan wizards couldn't save? They used the power of the Spellplague for the transposition to Abeir (and also, for transplating the zone they were replacing into the Shadowfell). So, the mages who did this feat of magic... likely they didn't survived (the Spellplague either mutated them or killed them; not even the aboleths of the Abolethic Sovereignty could withstand the Spellplague unscathed...). Maybe Halarahh was the focus of the spell, and because of that was destroyed and remained behind in Toril?

mmm...



I'm not worried about being aligned with candlekanon, but the only plans I have for Halruaa at present is that it was in Abeir, it had magic, and it had somewhat of a civil war with some Halruaans who take to calling themselves "the new red wizards" and they leave. They go to Peleveran and are tentatively accepted and told that if they want to join the Tharch just make their own city and hold it to prove their worth. So, the tharch doesn't spend anything to help them, they just don't oppose them and accept their fealty (with some watching of them for betrayal).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Zeromaru X
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Posted - 21 Aug 2017 :  02:59:21  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't, either. But if someone here is working in a region, I do like to have a cohesive line of ideas, not three different "settings" about Waterdeep, all of them good but incompatible. Like, a shared universe, so to speak. So, I do like that my ideas about Unther, Tymanther, the Nentir Vale, etc. can be compatible with those of yours and Markustay, and dazzler (though, he is not in our same timeline, lol) and others who like to share their work, even if you will not use them. The compatibility will help me if I want to use your ideas, and/or if you (or someone else) want to use my ideas as well.

If in the meantime something good comes for the Ckanon or a potential DMs Guild product, that's better but is not my "main aim", at least not until something solid is organized (Ckanon is going there, but at a snail's pace).

With that in mind, do you have developed your idea for the civil war beyond what you said?

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 21 Aug 2017 03:03:09
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sno4wy
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Posted - 21 Aug 2017 :  03:38:57  Show Profile Send sno4wy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sorry to derail, and I know it's probably too early to ask this, but where will we find your map when it's finished? :D
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Markustay
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Posted - 21 Aug 2017 :  03:50:38  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I put all the maps I personally do on my DeviantART page.

quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

With that in mind, do you have developed your idea for the civil war beyond what you said?
I know you were talking to Sleyvas, but I set some of this up in the supposition I did above. I think after 'the return', they accidentally recreated the situation they had with high Netheril/Low Netheril - an upper and lower class, that are treated very differently (which I am sure wasn't their intent - they probably never thought about what would happen if their were survivors that they 'left behind').

And because of the nature of 'The Return' (Ao's *finger snap*), and the rather wishy-washy waffling they did lore-wise throughout 4e, I can't see why you couldn't save the capital, regardless. We've already established elsewhere that one oddity of the D&Dverse is the ability to 'clone' regions, and even leave behind ruins, when places get 'taken' (It happened with Lord Soth in Dragonlance/Ravenloft). In fact, maybe they wanted the ruins left behind (they only teleported the people, which is WAY easier). If people saw the CAPITAL blow up, they would just assume there was no more Halruaans or Halruaa, ANYWHERE. They may have wanted that... and now I DO remember some of what Ed said in his thread! They purposely made it look like the damage was far worse, so no-one came 'nosing around' while they were still in a bad situation. That would imply there were some Halruaans left behind, on purpose, and that part of what they were doing is guarding their former territory from enemies; those may have been volunteers. And part of that may have been to also help all those people they couldn't take.

And your English is excellent - I tend to use American 'turns of phrase' quite often, and I should apologize knowing how poorly that sort of thing translates. Trust me, if we were to ever meet in person, you'd find my Spanish laughable (especially since I mostly know 'dirty' things to say).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 21 Aug 2017 04:18:17
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Zeromaru X
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Posted - 21 Aug 2017 :  05:58:09  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I guess I have to scour Ed's topics again... or just download the PDFs and search there. xDD

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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sleyvas
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Posted - 21 Aug 2017 :  12:43:24  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

I don't, either. But if someone here is working in a region, I do like to have a cohesive line of ideas, not three different "settings" about Waterdeep, all of them good but incompatible. Like, a shared universe, so to speak. So, I do like that my ideas about Unther, Tymanther, the Nentir Vale, etc. can be compatible with those of yours and Markustay, and dazzler (though, he is not in our same timeline, lol) and others who like to share their work, even if you will not use them. The compatibility will help me if I want to use your ideas, and/or if you (or someone else) want to use my ideas as well.

If in the meantime something good comes for the Ckanon or a potential DMs Guild product, that's better but is not my "main aim", at least not until something solid is organized (Ckanon is going there, but at a snail's pace).

With that in mind, do you have developed your idea for the civil war beyond what you said?



Nothing more designed on the civil war itself other than that. I do believe though that it will possibly revolve around the fact that some "Halruaan red wizards" wanted access to the writings of <create name here> who did a study of chronomancy (time magic), and it was deemed too dangerous by the Halruaan Elders. So, maybe they decided to steal the book. They were NOT successful. The Elders declared that they must be placed in prison or face death or somesuch. They hole up in the remote keep of <create name here and/or locate suitable>, and its a bit of a standoff because the elders find that Halruaa comes under the attack of <insert idea here>. The Halruaan red wizards come to the aid of their fellows, and they thwart the enemy, only to have the Elders immediately turn on them and start magically binding them. Most escape, they plan a rescue, and they head up to Peleveran, "where people aren't afraid to do what needs to be done to make a country great".

The city I'm having them build is named Hathel, and its right beside where the Shaarwood was in Toril (note Shaarwood, not Sharawood, so right at the fork of the river Shaar). I'm going to have the citizenship primarily Halruaans and Shaaryans (with the majority Shaaryans), and the Shaaryans aren't exactly thrilled with the Halruaans. The other portions of the populace will be wemics, hybsil, and centaurs. I still haven't figured out what will be on the other side when they were in Abeir (i.e. this city will be a very remote southeastern "spur" of the Tharch of Peleveran, so having it border on Shyr would make Shyr ginormous). So, we'll have this itty bitty city in a vast area surrounding them. So, likely, they have to make friends with someone (who stayed behind on Abeir).... unless of course they open on a vast open space.... and maybe there's a portal there that the river shaar looped into that reopened back on upper peleveran back at the top of the landrise... or out in some fields to irrigate the top of the landrise by dumping water midway between hardcastle and the Cliffside city of Peleverai... OR up on a earthmote that they've built "piplines" in the 8 cardinal directions to shoot water miles away and can close off pipelines to make it go stronger and farther in certain directions... hmmmm, I think I have the startings of an idea.

Sidenote, these red wizards begin to hear stories of the "font of time" in Mulhorand and become obsessed with it. Its from Old Empires.


Font of Time: This powerful artifact is located somewhere in eastern Mulhorand. Little is known about it, except for a few words in the Unique Mageries, a book of spells belonging to the wizard Nezram: [i] #147;Of all the artifacts created by the ancients, the most marvelous and terrifying was the great Font. This was a pearl-white pool, contained in a milk colored crystal that appeared in a mirage
in the eastern wastes. The waters were too bitter to drink. But if one
looked into the font in the light of a full moon, one could see scenes from the antiquity of Mulhorand that one would swear were real. And indeed they are. For if one concentrates on that image#151; ...but I shall say no more, in hopes that none shall follow where I have traveled. #148;

No knowledge exists about the origin of the font, except in the archives of Thoth. The font of time can enable any who look into it, during a full moon only, to see images of Mulhorand in the days of its original empire. It is possible to possess the body of an individual from that image, and thus experience life in Mulhorand at the height of its power. To return home, one must find one#146;s way to the font at the time of the new moon, when it is possible to look
back at one#146;s self, and return to one#146;s own form.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Zeromaru X
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Posted - 21 Aug 2017 :  13:43:19  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

I still haven't figured out what will be on the other side when they were in Abeir (i.e. this city will be a very remote southeastern "spur" of the Tharch of Peleveran, so having it border on Shyr would make Shyr ginormous).


For what it seems, Shyr is the name of a country/realm (as implied in the Akanûl's entry in the FRCG and in the Devil You Know), but is also the name of the continent that is equivalent to Faerûn in Abeir. The FRCG, p.207, specifically states that Shyr is "the savage continent" to the east of the spot Laerakond used to be while on Abeir. Plus the fact that both Unther and Akanûl, two lands "located" in both Shyr and Faerûn, were just transposed, not hurled away (like Tymanther).

So I guess Shyr, the continent, is at least of Faerûn's size. Dunno if the country is as big as the continent, but I guess not, because there were dragon lords in Shyr, and that means not all the lands were under Karshimis' rule.

I do, however, like to use the southern lands of Shyr to "transplant" Arkhosia into Abeir. It fits nicely because Arkhosia was a southern empire in core 4e (that expanded all the way north to the Nentir Vale, so it doesn't mess with my idea of having Arkhosian ruins in the equivalent lands of the Sword Coast to transpose during the Spellplague). Moreso, I will play with the core idea that Arkhosia was destroyed hundreds of years in the past. As there are no devils in Abeir, perhaps by demons instead; or by other dragons (as Arkhosian dragons were good, and, well... the other dragons in Abeir are like the evil of evil). So this will not be a problem for the newer civilizations, if you want to use Arkhosia as well.

So, all the southern lands (the equivalent to the Shining South), and all the way north through the western coast will have Arkhosian ruins to plunder, adventure and the like. Arkhosia can provided with ready to use edifications (after evicting those poor kobold families, of course), but more importantly, magic items, that will be really useful in the firsts years living in Abeir.

I want Io'vanthor (Dragon 369, if you're interested) to be in the equivalent lands of Halruua, in one of the Walls (the most damaged one in Toril), and coincidentally, the city wasn't pushed to the Shadowfell by the Halruaans when they did their trick to be transposed to Abeir.

My idea is that in Io'vanthor is located the heart/brain of an ancient, dead primordial (though Markustay suggested the lost lover of Helm instead ) that the Halruaans used to create a mythallar that allowed them to "emulate" the Weave in the years following the Wailing Years (or their Abeiran equivalent: the Time of Change or whatever).

And, at it was part of the "New Kingdom" of Halruaa, it was "brought back" alongside the rest of the kingdom to Toril during the SS.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 21 Aug 2017 13:50:24
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Bladewind
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Posted - 21 Aug 2017 :  14:23:24  Show Profile Send Bladewind a Private Message  Reply with Quote
From what I remember about Halruaa they already had some civil unrest and contention about what city should be the capitol, Halagard or Halarahh. Mainly because the newer capital Halarahh had more impressive magical defences (like floating buildings with murderholes to drop magical deterrents), it was settled upon that Halarahh went and became the new center for the empire's officials.

Mount Talath was said to hold some sort of Magical Node and boasted the largest temple of Mystra, and I believe this temple went and became some sort of place of pilgrimage for the sect Order of the Blue Fire, because they could easily study the effects of Blue Fire and Spellscars because of the nearby presence of plaguechanged lands.

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Zeromaru X
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Posted - 21 Aug 2017 :  14:43:06  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If you have a good point. Thanks. So, lets see...

If we go by 4e, Halarahh is oddly the only city that "survived" the Spellplague (the other cities just "vanished" in the blue fire—that turned to be true in 5e: they had vanished to Abeir), but 4e Halarahh was a wasted ruin full of undead and a tree-like being that has nothing to envy to Dark Young of Shub-Niggurath...

So, I guess, Halagard regained its status as capitol while on Abeir. So, the unrest maybe will be produced by, now that they have returned, the fact that some Halruaans (old-fashioned ones) want to restore Halarahh to the status of capitol, something I don't think the people of Halagard would abide.

And the temple of Mystra that you mentions. In 4e, the temple exploded, but the magical node survived (and it became a crystal replica of the temple). All the knowledge and items inside of the original temple survived, but the outside of the temple was a virulent plagueland. The Order of the Blue Fire was there, searching for spellscars and to seized the structure, but they couldn't (the plagueland was too deadly, even for them).

Now that the Spellplague is "healed" and there is no plagueland, I don't see the Temple as a threat. The Order will be a problem, though... I can see a massive campaign to drive them out of the Temple after the return.

And then we have the pirates of Yaulazna (including those of the Five Companies), as those guys are the descendants of the Halruaans left behind in Toril during the Spellplague.

I can picture they see themselves as the true Halruaans and will hate those "interlopers invading their ancestral lands".

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 21 Aug 2017 14:54:43
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Markustay
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Posted - 21 Aug 2017 :  16:45:19  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
At first I thought it might be a 'lost in translation' thing, but I've re-read the entry in the 4e FRCG (one of the few 4e books I have, and have READ, cover-to-cover). Now I believe it was more of a case of 'poor editing', which the FRCG was rife with.

And even that may not be quite the right term... maybe 'rushed'? Anyhow, it seems they had lots of ideas and 'notes' laying about that they scrambled to throw together (at least, it appears that way) into something cohesive¹. Another part of this is that - and you've pointed this out to me repeatedly, Zeromaru - that 4e seems to have 'grown' (matured?) as it aged. In other words, things that were left hazy became better-defined.

With all that in mind - and having just re-read the entry (and the word 'realm' isn't very specific either - it doesn't have to mean 'country') - my thoughts are that Shyr is a continent, and Arkanul (or whatever it WAS called, because it sure as hell wasn't called 'Arkanul'² when it was still in Abeir... amazing how in 3 years of development not a single 'designer' every thought about these things...) was country, or a piece of country. The FRCG itself disagrees on this point (although you seem to be taking the opinion that both are correct, and the only RW case we have for that is Australia, which was changed because of that confusion).


¹ And on this, they failed miserably. There were so many questions (and conflicts) about the FRCG that for an entire year after poor Rich Baker got buffeted by a storm of vicious posts on the WotC boards. We had two completely different backstories for Grimlost! Better just to admit it was 'a rush job', and not try to stick to the letter of every word the 4e FRCG said, IMO.

² I'm the one who got 'Returned Abeir' named Laerakond, did you know that? I asked Ed what it was called originally (because not even he thought about the fact people living there would NEVER have called it 'returned Abeir', especially BEFORE it returned anywhere!), and he gave me TWO names (I have to go find that other one -we can use that), and then I presented them to Rich Baker, who choose 'Laerakond' (and thats about as 'official' as something quasi-canonical can get).

Now my point: Arkanul was a realm in FR BEFORE whatever the hell that place was showed up. Its even in/on the FRIA, which came out in 1999. It was also related to the name of the damn lake (The Akanamere). The designers may think by sticky the nifty 'û' fantasy-ish letter in there we'd think it was a different name. The first thing you need to do is come up with the old, Abeirran name for where they came from, and if you are really stuck on keeping 'to the letter' of the FRCG lore, you should incorporate the 'Shyr' part (so something like Grûm-shyr, which could translate as "Grûm in Shyr"). That might work.

And technically, that name only applied to the southern part of the lake (it may have meant the whole of the region around the lake, but I just checked Ed's originals, and it has it beneath the lake as well... making that name pre-1985, BTW). The area above the lake was either Chessenta, or part of 'The Blade Kingdoms' to the west (and those seem to have been conveniently forgotten about from 3e-on). I guess thinking up NEW names its too hard... for game designers.


Consider this a 'rant' buried in relevant information.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 21 Aug 2017 16:52:55
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Bladewind
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Posted - 21 Aug 2017 :  17:05:22  Show Profile Send Bladewind a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Aye, Akanul was the landscape around the Akanamere, and politically associated to Chessenta via its half-orcish rule in Airspur. The racially tolerant city of Airspur supported Cimbar more often than Akanax, and was an important port in the Sea of Fallen Stars.

[EDIT] Oh and I believe Airspur was partially destroyed by the massive geomorphologic upheaval of the region. As the Underchasm opened up, the Sea of Fallen Stars drained into it, creating massive gorges and caused most rifts to steepen above the Underdarks more massive collapses. Airspur happened to lie between a natural rift of the Akanul, carved by the runoff Akanawater river of the Akanamere, and this rift was torn open even wider during the Wailing Years of the Spellplague.

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Edited by - Bladewind on 21 Aug 2017 17:15:04
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Markustay
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Posted - 21 Aug 2017 :  17:27:54  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

² I'm the one who got 'Returned Abeir' named Laerakond, did you know that? I asked Ed what it was called originally (because not even he thought about the fact people living there would NEVER have called it 'returned Abeir', especially BEFORE it returned anywhere!), and he gave me TWO names (I have to go find that other one -we can use that), and then I presented them to Rich Baker, who choose 'Laerakond' (and thats about as 'official' as something quasi-canonical can get).

I just went looking for that name, and I stand corrected: Although there was quite a bot of discussion about the name of 'returned Abeir' on the WotC forums at that time, the person who actually asked a question about naming it (and it wasn't even in terms of 'what it was called before'!) was Faraer. Ed presented two names for it based upon the question, which was 'how to use it as a stand-alone setting':
quote:
Ed Greenwood, pg.64 of his 2008 scroll
"Even if one emphatically does not want detailed histories for every area (and many of us longtime Realm fans do, because those same histories let us more fully understand local feuds, intrigues, power groups, current power balances and political aims, and the seeds that will spur many future adventures), this lack of the basics I mentioned above is something I’ve got to try to address (and the Wizards website is an ideal venue because it doesn’t have to fit the severely limited wordcounts of trying to fit everything about a given land or area into one page, or a two-page spread, or some multiple thereof, in a printed book). So there’s work to do, no matter how one uses this continent of Abeir, or Returned Abeir, or whatever you prefer to call it.
If using it as part of a new, non-Faerûnian setting, I’d call it “Laerakond” [pronounced “L-AIR-ah-KON-d”].
I settled on the ‘sounds’ of that coined name because they are different from the softer, more Celtic-green-and-pleasant-fantasy-Sherwood ‘feel’ of much of the most loved areas of Faerûn; if you’d prefer to echo that look and feel, call it something like “Tarathdeon,” instead."



So, 'Tarathdeon' was the other name. When I gave both to Rich Baker, he said he "preferred Laerakond". I, and others, have been calling it that ever since. It might make a good name for another continent (it goes well with 'Shyr', so if you want to keep that for the country, we could use 'Tarathdeon' fro the continent... even though the 4e FRCG specifically says the continent is 'Shyr').

Here is The Link for the full answer. It's the 5th post down - I don't know how to link to individual posts on this forum, unfortunately.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 21 Aug 2017 17:30:33
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Zeromaru X
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Posted - 21 Aug 2017 :  21:02:12  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The issue with Shyr as a "country/realm", is that is used as such in the Devil You Know. You have the Untherites fighting against the Shyran genasi, and stuff like:

"The demons were sent to infiltrate Shyr," Dumuzi said. "To bring it down from the inside."

How do you bring down from the inside a continent? Unless you want to destroy it, and you need an uber-powerful bomb for this feat (not even the Spellplague was able to bring down Faerûn).

So, if before that wasn't a realm... well, the novel made it a realm.

And so, we have both, Shyr the continent and Shyr the realm.

And yeah, I was aware of the fact that Akanûl existed as a name before in the Realms. I became aware when you shared with me the Old Empires map, as the name is in the map.

I even said somewhere in this forum, that I found funny that all names in the area are like "akan-something".

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Another part of this is that - and you've pointed this out to me repeatedly, Zeromaru - that 4e seems to have 'grown' (matured?) as it aged. In other words, things that were left hazy became better-defined.


Yeah. You can see the difference in 4e products if your compare the FRCG with, for instance, the Neverwinter Campaign Setting. And the difference is huge.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

then I presented them to Rich Baker, who choose 'Laerakond' (and thats about as 'official' as something quasi-canonical can get).


I was aware of Ed's post (it is linked in the FR wiki), but I didn't knew you had a part in the naming of...

BTW, Laerakond became the canon name of the continent in “The Winking Eyes of Rhauron”, an article written by Ed in Dungeon #193.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 21 Aug 2017 21:22:27
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Zeromaru X
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Posted - 22 Aug 2017 :  03:24:24  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I did what Markustay suggested and searched for what Ed said about the fate of Halruaa (and started in the 2008 post... so, it took me a time). So, to not derail this topic (that is about maps), I'm going one for my project.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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Markustay
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Posted - 22 Aug 2017 :  04:20:07  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've actually named a lot of things. I name unnamed features on maps, and then the next thing I know, its named that in a canon source. Funny that.

I hadn't realized Ed 'fully canonized' the name. Kewl.

The 'Shyr' thing annoys me, because we all know it was a mistake. Can't we just ignore the 'continent of Shyr' thing?

On the other hand... we might be able to fix it with history. What if - when the Laerakondans (thats a mouthful) 'discovered' Shyr in the past - they asked natives what the land was called, and they were answered, 'Shyr'. The explorers put that on the map as 'the new land to the east' (was it east?), and it stuck. they didn't know the folks living there were talking about their country. They probably didn't have a name for the landmass itself if they were still fairly primitive - they probably just called it "the land". A name wasn't necessary until there was another land.

Kind of how Native Americans were called 'Indians' for 500 years.

And I still think Abeir = Aebrynis = Athas = Ansalon
and the Io's blood Island Chain from Council of Wyrms

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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