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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Aug 2017 : 14:35:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I would posit there was something like a proto-mythallar there, and that was what added the Thayans pre-ToT... Or maybe not a mythallar as such, but something that could be utilized in a similar fashion.
It could be something that fell from the sky, and the Ba'etith built a huge complex there to study/utilize this thing. Originally a small outpost on the edge of an impact crate, it grew into a large city, with the Landrise eventually being raised to contain and conceal both city and fallen object.
And this artifact could have even been what drew the pre-Thayans there. Perhaps Thayd wasn't a human, but was actually a sarrukh in disguise, and he wanted the Red Wizards there specifically because of this artifact.
Of course, when the ToT happened, some of the sarrukh that had acted as sleeping guardians woke up, realized their plateau was now infested with those annoying red-clad humans, all drawing magic from a sarrukh artifact, and decided they no longer wanted to share...
Ooh, or maybe the artifact is a fallen deity. The Landrise was raised to contain this former power... And when the ToT happened, the last remnants of godhood held by this divine prisoner were stripped away; this weakened the bindings and the former deity managed to escape. The former deity could have run afoul of and been slain by another avatar, or the former deity could have pulled a Waukeen, stepping into the planes and leave the Realms forever.
Yeah, at one point, we were positing whether Escalthar, who forced the Zulkirate to form.... and whose mage sigil was a "black star".... wait.... a black star.... falls to Toril, smashing into what will in the future become Amruthar.... said "black star" is maybe the artifact.
Anyway, we had been positing back in 2014 in this thread that Escalthar "the Black Star" was actually an avatar of Azuth possibly buried as the original gen con handout on the Zulkirs had indicated.
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19411
If we want to link this as far back as the Sarrukh however, it has to be something other than Azuth. Hmmm, if what's beneath Halruaa is somehow an embodiment of the original Mystryl, might what was buried beneath Thay be some kind of embodiment of the original Shar (or whatever was "Shar").
This maybe raises another question.... when gods die, they form a "big stone body" that is formed in the astral... this body is protected by Anubis.... what if during the dawn war those dead god bodies didn't go to the astral? What if they fell and smashed into Toril and the world is littered with god corpses?
I know a few months back, we were wondering if a lot of cosmic stuff floating in wildspace wasn't somehow some kind of "entity". Makes me wonder even on things like Asgorath ..... is the King Killer Comet or somesuch actually that entity, and its simply able to form an avatar in the form of a dragon? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2017 : 14:45:36
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Hmmm, and Thay.... preoccupation with fire... Volcanos nearby on the Thaymount... down in Kensten / (future Bezantur) an avatar of Kossuth was summoned by the Raumathari... Kossuth is the "black flame"... "black star"... and Kossuth is the only known elemental lord documented to have been active during the ToT, down in Chult using a firenewt as an avatar. After the ToT, the "artifact" is either gone or no longer empowered. Kind of makes sense that whatever hit Thay may have been the "body" of Kossuth.
Hmmm, Thayd possesses bodies and burns them out, literally.... might be able to twist into this somehow.
also in theory, the Untheric God of Fire, Girru died in this area during the orcgate wars... might be stretching things with that. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2017 : 15:36:46
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Hmmm, and this THO in the Ask Ed in 2011
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14621&whichpage=38
The Chosen, during the time of Mystra's Weave, have no real need to read the Scrolls. Unless they try to learn things magical beyond the Weave itself, or something that Mystra and Azuth forbade them to try to find out (very few topics, but among them: killing a divine being or a fellow Chosen and the implications; the essence of refining raw magical power or darkfire [[note: yes, this IS canon, thanks to Mystara and some early TSR design decisions; it fulfills the function of magically-shrouded "antimatter" in the Realms]] into silver fire; and inquiring too closely into the nature of the Sharn [[being as some Sharn are former Chosen, Magisters, others of Mystra's servitors, or other beings Mystra and Azuth aided in "hiding" in Sharn form indefinitely or permanently]]), they can learn what they need to know through their own research, or observation, or through the Weave, or by asking Azuth or Mystra or fellow Chosen directly (there's no compulsion on any of those sources for obedient direct answering, mind you; in many matters, Azuth and Mystra believe that "learning things yourself" is the best way, because it makes their Chosen wiser and stronger than just being told answers).
So, perhaps the red wizards were practicing converting darkfire/raw magic into another source, or using raw magical power (aka darkfire) and converting it into silver fire. Maybe THIS is what their circles were truly about pre-ToT (noting their circles were all about giving extra spell slots, etc..). This could very much be used by me with the whole "they transferred to Abeir". Maybe they learned to use their knowledge of circle magic to convert raw magic into weave magic in the form of something like a mythallar over their communities. Maybe it was the fact that there were enough red wizards still around from pre-1358 (it was only 27 years prior to the spellplague so there likely were a lot of them). This could definitely explain their use of magic in Abeir.
Hmmm, the Imaskari who opposed Halaster... Madryoch the "Ebon Flame" who was in Metos in the Methwood near Unther and formed the shadowstone.... wonder if he was messing with raw magic/darkfire as well.
We have this reference from the shadow stone novel “The old Imaskari knew things we don't today. They did not wield the Weave the way we do. They used another source of power to fuel their spells.”
and also this, I'm seeing in another candlekeep forum entry from someone reviewing that novel.
To those of you who are wondering where the Shadow Stone came from (and don't mind a little spoiler), then read on... Oriseus once said, “Thousands of years ago, the Imaskari arose, first of all men to walk in this world. Unfettered by the powers and restrictions of gods, they had nothing to defy their understanding, their comprehension. The glories of Netheril and fallen Raumanthar were mere reflections of the first mages, the sorcerer lords who mastered magic in that forgotten age.
“And so the Imaskari ruled vast lands thousands of years before the rise of Mulhorand, of Unther, of Netheril and the other ancient kingdoms of man. They roamed the planes, building portals to a thousand times and worlds. And so they aroused the ire of the petty gods who rule over this sphere. These powers sought to bring down the Imaskari by withholding the Weave from them. The lords of the Imaskari thus turned to a source of magic from beyond this world, a source of magic that they could wield without answering to the rude demipowers of this sphere. They brought the Shadow Stone into this world, establishing a link or conduit through which they could draw on an energy that exists outside all time and space.”
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2017 : 16:55:39
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As for the 'thing' below Thay - my best guess it is related somehow to Telos in Vaasa and whatever is under Halruaa. Hmmmmm... Vaasa... Halruaa... maybe its should be Thaay? Ya know, like The Shaar (which has some connection to Shar, so sayeth Ed).
I think the Telos thing in Vaasa is actually nothing 'new' (except maybe to them, there) - that there have been others that were being 'tapped' all along. It might be what sent the Netherese to Halruaa in the first place ("The next time the magic goes out, we'll have our own damned power source!")
And whatever those are - primordials, or pieces of primordials? Or primordials + lots of other stuff that 'died' in the war? - I think they were 'drained' when they landed on Abeir-Toril, and they are collecting energy (Note that Telos 'heals' as quickly as they carve pieces out of him), and when they aren't being 'tapped' as a power source by some group (Halruaans, Thayans, Warlock Knights, maybe the dwarves of Guantlgrym, etc), they 'swell' (are getting filled with power they are slowly absorbing over time).
Thus, the Thayans being there may have actually been a 'good thing' for Faerûn, in the greater scheme of things; there usage has kept it 'contained'.
And there is also lore in the older Unapproachable East product (DotRW or Spellbound) about there being 'some ancient power sleeping beneath Aglarond {or close by}. I actually thought this was a Yuir Totem - some sea deity thats long forgotten about. But I think Umberlee actually makes a good Yuir Totem (ancient Fey power, like Auril), so it wouldn't make sense if she took the place of whatever is under Aglarond (or there-abouts). Who knows? Maybe the Yuir Totems and 'Lost Gods' were meant to be Ed's concept of the 'primordials' (more like proto-powers, before mortals starting ascending and becoming Gods in their own right).
Also, it seems like just about everywhere one of these thingies landed, there is a Chosen nearby, keeping watch... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 31 Aug 2017 00:05:32 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2017 : 17:05:03
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| That gives me ideas for my Halruaan stuff... |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2017 : 18:53:48
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Decided to follow this thread when I saw what THO posted  .
??
In the Questions for Ed Greenwood scroll, THO mentioned this thread. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3285 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2017 : 15:10:56
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| To have access to a "Pure AND unadulterated" Ed Greenwood Forgotten Realms. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2017 : 02:21:33
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| Not to overkill things, but we were kind of wondering if the landrise didn't initially crack and lift a little when something landed in Halruaa. Then we were wondering if when the great rift formed if the landrise didn't jump to its full height. Then we were wondering if at the great rift there wasn't another "bend" where the northern and western side sloped down and the southeastern side started rising (partly due to the shaar river's flow. Makes me wonder if something didn't actually smack into and form the great rift as well. It would explain the dwarves being able to mine so much there for centuries. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2017 : 03:35:11
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Yet the Great Rift seems to be the one stable spot in that region. Even when the land around rises, it stays put. And even better, when 4e made the Shaar collapse-in (crating the Underchasm), it STILL remained right there, when everything else got lowered. Its the one point that never moves.
I actually think th 'Plateau of Shaar' is bigger than just The Shaar - I think it extends all the way to about where the Dragonwall was. Not far from where the southern tip of the Dragonwall ended (and please note: That was AN ACTUAL DRAGON!)begins a ravine that travels all the way down to the Golden waters area. In 4e the Dragonwall exploded, and I think it would have left behind another enormous trench (canyon) - one that might even hook-up to the other, already-existing ravine to the south. Anyhow, I think there was a height difference from one side of that ravine to the other. That makes that region another 'landrise', one that was hard to notice because of the ravine. yet we have a fairly flat plain on the western side meeting high mountains directly on the other side - and they are fairly level to one another (there was at least one bridge across). And Kara-Tur is moustly at sea-level, where there are no mountains. Not at all like Faerûn (which is very hilly, just about everywhere).
So I'm thinking the Shaaran Plateau actually encompasses the whole of the Old Empires, including Murghôm and Semphar. In fact, we know its mostly cliffs along the Inner Sea there, where Murghôm/Mulhorand meets the Sea of Fallen Stars. Then we have some fairly flat (sea-level) land in Thazalhar, and then we go right back up into the Thayan plateau. Brightstar Lake (Once again, note the name) is yet another impact crater - one in the raised plateau.
If its got the words 'Star' or 'Moon' in it, you can bet something fell there.
Also, we have the draconic myths about the 'eggs falling from the sky', right? Could these be the same event? Could those things have created the dragons, or caused an apotheosis of the 'land wyrms' that were native to the region? Could the Power of the Primordials - the power of 'Nature Unleashed' - be the catalyst? The primordials are accredited for having created the dragons... was that an accident? In a similar fashion to how we blame nuclear fallout for creating Godzilla? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 01 Sep 2017 03:36:17 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2017 : 03:56:40
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We all know that Bhaerynden collapsed but maybe something more than a weakened structure caused it. Like an impact.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2017 : 04:28:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Also, we have the draconic myths about the 'eggs falling from the sky', right? Could these be the same event? Could those things have created the dragons, or caused an apotheosis of the 'land wyrms' that were native to the region? Could the Power of the Primordials - the power of 'Nature Unleashed' - be the catalyst? The primordials are accredited for having created the dragons... was that an accident? In a similar fashion to how we blame nuclear fallout for creating Godzilla?
Well, in 1374 DR a second "Tearfall" took place, but it wasn't as catastrophic as the original one. But, we know that dragon eggs fell from the sky in "recent times", confirming the "myth". So discard landwyrm (or eodraco) evolution. The dragons actually fell from the sky.
Though, we can also work with the theory that those eggs from 1374 were "imported" from Abeir, seeing that there dragons are quite numerous while in Toril the race was in decline because of the Dracorages... |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 01 Sep 2017 05:14:44 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2017 : 12:48:02
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
We all know that Bhaerynden collapsed but maybe something more than a weakened structure caused it. Like an impact.
-- George Krashos
Yeah, that's where I'm going with this, and if it DID impact, was it on the Northwestern side. That is the side that would have also transported to Abeir IF indeed this whole story of a collapse of MILLIONS of TONS of material had indeed happened. I say this because I've just had this hard time swallowing the story of the Underchasm. If it were smaller... maybe. Easier for me to believe that that section went to Abeir too, but nothing correspondingly from Abeir came to Toril (possibly because the Halruaans were busy shunting things in Abeir off to the shadowfell... you know because at least red wizards let you know they're d*cks up front, not tell you they're the good guys and then push some society to live in everlasting darkness... or at least that's how Zulkir Lauzoril phrased it last week at dinner when he was in his cups).
If that is the case (that some power source impacted into and helped form the great rift), then also perhaps that gives me a power source for the red wizards in the Tharch of Peleveran. Part of me wants to name it and call it some god. Another part of me wants to say its some portion of the Tears of Selune. Another part wants to simply call it irradiated material that simply fell to Toril, and that the energy of this irradiated material has something to do with raw magic just like the stuff in Mystara's Glantri. If I do decide to later start "naming" this stuff, we can always do so and simply state that god/primordial corpses are made of some kind of rock that gives off energy.
So, as I'm thinking this through... let me walk through the Tharchs I'm defining throughout Toril mentally.
Tharch of Peleveran - some power source near the west end of the great rift when it transferred to Abeir. Maybe even this crash is what formed the tunnel that the river shaar funnels through from the great rift to the edge of the landrise and out to the clifside city of Peleverai.... Holy smack, yes, I love this, and I'm using it unless someone convinces me its stupid somehow. This maybe lets us leave behind material the dwarves have been mining for centuries in the rift and puts a power source in Peleverai.
Tharch of Balduran Bay / Fort Flame - was already planning to have them have captured a primordial and trapped it beneath their school in the mountains nearby.
Tharch of Esh Alakar in Anchorome - hmmm, city in a relatively dry gully area. The city believed to hold ancient evil, and no one wanted to enter it except red wizards. This area kind of screams "irradiated with magical energy". Maybe even its good if red wizards came along to start siphoning it off... to heal the land. City filled with "golems" and undead. I was also looking to make this an area where the wizards had been studying technomagic along with some Gondsmen from Thindol. This actually fits kind of well if the beings that are gone were technomagical. It could be an excellent source for the warforged idea. Maybe when the red wizards came here, they recognized the energy as similar to the artifact they had in Thay. It was also here that they also heard of "Lopango, Land of Fire" and decided to make an expedition there so....
Lopango, Land of Fire, in the southern jungles of Maztica The name says it all. Also, from GHotR we have very strong hints that Bazim-Gorag, the Firebringer, was from this area before ascending to become a batrachi lord. Perhaps he drew heavily on the power of an artifact that causes all the volcanic activity in the area. Perhaps the red wizards were drew here because of references to another artifact similar to the one they had used in Thay just 27 years earlier.
Western Pridelands of Katashaka - Hmmm, this is entirely my development, but at present I have nothing that could serve as a power source. Basically, its a number of coastal communities along the northwestern tip of Katashaka that's focused mainly on improving the quality of life (at the expense of others mind you, but as a side effect it is civilizing the area and improving theirs). Maybe instead of one big power source, they've found small deposits of some mineral or perhaps even something like plants or even beings locally that they can use as some kind of battery.
New Eltabbar of Katashaka - Well, I built this on a raised escarpment on the northeastern most tip of Katashaka... so it could easily be that its raised up from something coming in at a low angle and driving up the earth over it. The previous tenants were leonine humanoids whose only magics would have been shamanic or priestly. Might be worth it to work in some kind of "dream talking" with the presence in the earth that they did.
Luneira, the former netherese enclave of Doubloon in orbit - This one's easy. Functioning mythallar.
Tharch of Oslander Island - I have so little developed here. Probably best to have them simply doing something similar to western pridelands... a lot of little somethings that the local natives might trade. Or perhaps since this is like an offshoot of Luneira (i.e. the red wizards wanted a small colony here for the main purpose of growing food, since there's no natural ecology in Orbit)... and Luneira had multiple mythallars supporting it. Maybe one was "lower in power" and was an early mythallar before they developed the "newer more powerful mythallars". So, maybe they transport the smaller one here. Or they can setup some kind of array of "batteries" here, and periodically they bring a new "battery" down.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2017 : 13:38:31
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Well, didn't intend for this thread to turn into this, but when do my threads ever stay on topic...
So, what if while in Abeir, the red wizards learned to use their circles with their circle leaders, but in a new way in which the circle leader feeds the energy into "receptacles" of some sort. Maybe they've been drawing the latent raw magic of Abeir and focusing it into these receptacles. Once these receptacles get to a certain point of "fullness" maybe they take on a role of their own in which they start acting kind of like the "weave tap" that converted shadow magic into weave magic. Then maybe they offer up some of these in sacrifice to the gods of magic, who actually take these magical 'batteries' and plant them around the areas that transferred to Abeir (SIDENOTE: Leira used her power to hide these "points in the ley lines"). Thus, maybe they SLOWLY created a weave across those lands, making it such that the red wizards were some of the first to get stable weave magic back. Note: the red wizards SHOULD NOT even know the full impact of what they're doing NOR the exact involvement with the gods of magic, though some might suspect.
In the cities with powerful magic sources of some sort, maybe this "battery building" is simply easier and/or something akin to a Mythallar may be built there to protect certain communities. These "batteries"/"mini-weave taps" might also become a commodity that they are trading to other tharchs. If multiple tharchs can do this, it also makes it not a monopoly to any one tharch, so that helps with cooperation more. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2019 : 21:24:08
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Oh, missed this one:
quote:
Elminster Speaks: Khôltar, Part 3
A prevalence of poisonous fumes, searing rock salts, and molten rock flows to the west of the Great Rift keep settlements in this part of the Realms Below very sparse, and very deep, which is the very reason the dwarven Deep Realms extend far to the east of the Great Rift and only a little way west and southwest of it.
So there is a cracked area not directly linked to the Great Rift. The whole thing still can be a convergent plate boundary, it's a bit unusual in the middle of a continent (rather than with subducting plate under water), but not impossible. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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When was the landrise created?
