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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Nov 2017 : 20:13:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
In fact if anyone comes across any stray mention of chessenta in a sourcebook or web article (or even a novel) then please post it here
Pirates of the Fallen Stars, pg.68
quote:
Ulgar Isle
Ulgar Isle, of all the islands in the Pirate Isles, is truly haunted. The undead rule this island, led by an ancient vampire from the empire of Chessenta: Ulgar.
Ulgar the Undying was made vampire during the height of the Chessentan Empire nearly 2,000 years ago. After preying upon that empire for over two centuries, he was trapped. Although he could not be destroyed (at least as far as the Chessentans knew), they shipped him to this island in the middle of the Sea of Fallen Stars, there to live out eternity.
Ulgar remained undisturbed, trapped within a sealed coffin for nearly two millennia. Then, during Immurk's time, a band of pirates who were searching for a new lair came across Ulgar's coffin and opened it. Starving for blood, he drained them all dry before his thirst was sated. He then went out to the ship, but found that he did not have the knowledge of modern sailing craft, and so was still marooned.
Other vessels visited the island, each falling under Ulgar's trap, until finally one of the ships managed to flee with someone still alive to tell of what occurred. The island was declared uninhabitable, and all on the Inner Sea were warned to avoid it.
Like many such items, however, there are always those who would tempt fate. Supposedly, Ulgar possesses secret magics known only to the Chessentan Empire which are otherwise unavailable. Several expeditions to gather Ulgar's secrets have landed on the island; most have failed.
Ulgar now has over fifty vampire servants. Most of them are sealed in coffins of Ulgar's making, waiting for victims to feed upon, as even a vampire of Ulgar's age cannot control fifty starving vampires. Those who did not become vampires have been raised as zombie servants, and these patrol the island, bringing all intruders to Ulgar so that he may feed.
That is a very interesting find. Given the name, I am so inclined to tie him to Ulgarth... and have it be that the story of him being turned 2 thousand years ago was a misunderstanding. It would be a simple spin to say that he was "revealed" 2 thousand years ago.... say a thousand years after he helped found Chessenta as an Untheric province in -1771 DR.... when he was released the last time the "Gates of Iron" in Ulgarth opened... and also right around the time that an Ulgarian Prince, Surtava, for some reason gave up everything to become a beggar and seek enlightenment and form the Padhran religion.
Like you I'm inclined to have him be something other than a standard vampire... having him be something that maybe even fed upon the power of a demoness like Lamashtu... or maybe he raped the manifestation of Ereshkigal or fed upon her milk or drank her blood... maybe he was attempting to become a divine being, and he failed. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2017 : 20:44:08
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So Lamashtu IS in D&D - I hadn't noticed that. I only know her from Pathfinder. I still like her as a feral/primal aspect of Tiamat, though. Maybe thats how she escaped imprisonment by Pazuzu - she managed to break-off that part of her he was keeping imprisoned (the 'eater of babies'). And it could also be why she fled to the Nine Hells all those years ago - she was seeking asylum (because there aren't too many beings in the universe that would give Pazuzu pause, and Asmodeus is one of them). AND it would also help explain her sudden depowering to just a 'devil's lapdog' (or so it would appear, for a time) - she lost a tremendous amount of her divine energy when she split herself. She had to 'lick her wounds' and follow Asmodeus' orders for a couple thousand years until she could (in secret) slowly rebuild her own divine power base, away from her original draconic followers (where Asmodeus would notice). She would have done this through proxies, which AGAIN help explain some of the weirdness that went on in Chessenta. And NOW she has her own realm and faith once again.
All that from an offhand, throw-away mention of a vampire on an island. MAN, I LOVE the Realms! 
@Sleyvas - thats an interesting thing to play around with - I have to give it some more thought. If anyone would have controlled Ulgaria back then, it should have been Mulhorand, but I suppose Unther (wich also spawned chessenta) may have wrapped around the bottom of Mulhorand for a short time. On the other hand, picturing a pack of 'Ancient Dead' (mummies) going into Ulgaria (Ulgarth) and cashing the Vampire Lord out is kinda cool - use undead to fight undead... what could be better?
We could even push him all the way back to Imaskar (have him be yet-another necro-related artificer), but I'd rather avoid that. Not everything has to relate back to Imaskar, or Netheril, or Shar/Shadows for that matter. However, what if he dated from its fall? He may have been a Mulan that was 'filled with the Holy Spirit' (Manifestation/Incarnation), that 'went bad' and fled down to Ulgaria. Maybe he and another Godling were mortally wounded, and to save himself, he 'ate' some of the other one... which the others would consider an abomination. They wouldn't have had the time or resources to go after him during the war/revolution, but afterward... it may have taken some time for them to find him again. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 Nov 2017 20:56:09 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2017 : 20:48:17
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| Pretty sure Lamashtu was just cited as an example, there -- so far as I know, she and all the deities of Pathfinder were created for that setting (save for the Cthulhu imports, of course). |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2017 : 21:03:14
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No, she is definitely a RW Mesopotamian god, which is why I hadn't realized she had a presence in D&D; like you, I had just assumed she was created whole-cloth for Golarion, and never bothered to dig deeper. Odd that they had one that was RW, when they avoided that everywhere else (she DOES have a bit of a 'Lovecraftian' feel, and she's been associated with Mother Hydra from THAT mythos, so it makes some sense in that light).
I wouldn't even know about any of these beings if I hadn't become enthralled with the Dagon and Mother Hydra in the hallway outside the Candlekeep meet-up at Gencon2012. They were from the room next door, and while I was waiting for the meet-up to start, they pulled me into the room. Man, do those tentacle-heads know how to party! I wound up late to the CK meet-up because of it.
(In my defense, the 'sacrifice' they were offering to the Gods was a very cute young lady wearing nothing but a few pieces of strategically-placed electrical tape as a costume. Now, being in the construction industry, I was fascinated by this new usage for said tape.....) |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 Nov 2017 21:04:27 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2017 : 21:46:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Pretty sure Lamashtu was just cited as an example, there -- so far as I know, she and all the deities of Pathfinder were created for that setting (save for the Cthulhu imports, of course).
Nope, Lamashtu and Pazuzu are both real world. In fact, the mention of Lamashtu in Hordes of the Abyss predates Pathfinder. Granted, they don't say very much about her. In OUR world, she's actually noted as a daughter of Anu (in the realms known as Enlil). This definitely makes her fit the area. She actually gets more mention in a dragon article on Pazuzu. Ironically, that same issue of dragon #329 has information on the Mesopotamian mythos, which possibly hits around a lot of what we've been discussing, so I'm rereading it. Having something wherein Pazuzu corrupts a daughter of an Untheric god and then entraps her in the abyss could be interesting.
Lamashtu[edit]
Lamashtu is the demon queen of monstrous births. She is described as a wretched and deformed hag, well known for her bottomless hunger for the bones of pregnant mothers and newborn babes. Pazuzu is Lamashtu's most notable enemy. She was once his consort, but she betrayed him by abusing her knowledge of his true name. In retribution, Pazuzu put out her eyes and banished her to the Abyssal layer of Torremor, in the sprawling construction known as Onstrakker's Nest.
Lamashtu was first mentioned in the article "Demonomicon of Iggwilv: Pazuzu" in Dragon #329 (March 2005), by James Jacobs.[32] Lamashtu received further details in third edition in Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss (2006). She received further description in the fourth edition book Demonomicon (2010). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 25 Nov 2017 23:56:11 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2017 : 00:07:54
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If we go with some of what I postulated above (and I know I will - I have to tweak my Over-cosmology just a little bit more), then its fairly simple to say that Lamashtu (the primal vestige of Tiamat that she broke away from) is still trapped, and that anyone who still worships her (ie., the PF setting) is actually getting their prayers answered by Tiamat, Thus, 'Lamshtu' is an alias of Tiamat, even though she is now separate from it.
I am thinking that the way he bound her was through her divinity, and thus, by separating herself from that part of herself (the Divine), she left behind both her 'reptilian brain' (her Id, which resides in the Body, in my Body, Mind, & Soul theories) and the physical body that held it. Her spirit and soul (Mind & Soul) were able to escape the Abyss and flee to Baator. This is why she is now forced to possess the bodies of others - she had to give up her own true form.
At least, thats how I'm spinning it from now on. I'm thinking perhaps she got help from pale Night, who is another obyrith, and may be working at odds to Pazuzu (and I have her connected to the Drow as well). Maybe Pale Night hid her daughter Araushnee (another of my theories) in Tiamat's realm when the Seldarine were after her, because Tiamat owed her a favor. Of course, that would mean Lolth spent some time in hell, as well, before going to the Abyss and carving out her own domain.
But wait... I am just now reading (D&D) Asmodeus' Wikipedia entry and it seems Pazuzu and he have formal relations, and he helped establish Asmodeus! Asmodeus even owes him a HUGE favor for that, which he is yet to collect on. Hmmmmmm... that insanely interesting. I was only looking at the entry to try and find another way to link pre-Lolth Araushnee to the Hells, and I a thinking maybe she was Bensozia (in other words, the 'Queen of Hell' didn't really die, that was just a cover story when she took-off and became Lolth). Gods (and fiends) lie all the time, especially when they don't want mortals to see that they are fallible. I'm not so sure about that part, though. Still moving the pieces around. Also, I found that Zargon (Elder Evils) was the original ruler of Hell, and some older lore says that Asmodeus usurped Beelzebul, who overthrew Satan. This means Zargon came before Satan, even though he is not listed in that 'order of Devil-Kings'.
So maybe Zargon wasn't a devil at all. Maybe he wasn't an obyrith either (although he could still have been). What if Zargon is the name of the nameless god? "He who was"? But He Who Was didn't die - he was corrupted by the Shard of Evil at the heart of Baator, and was locked away in his madness. the other gods just lie about it because they are ashamed about what happened.
quote:
Despised by the baatezu, feared by the gods, and all but forgotten by mortals, Zargon the Returner struggles to escape his prison to once more conquer the earth and drown the world with rivers of his slime.
Accent, mine. it fits, no?
The human creator-god went mad. Sounds about right.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 26 Nov 2017 00:10:58 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2017 : 00:14:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I can't say I like the idea of a newborn deity... Why wouldn't a deity be born mature? They skip out on other aspects of mortal existence, so I don't see a reason for a deity to need to grow up. (And the thought of divine Terrible Twos is a scary one indeed!)
I can dig a newly ascended deity, perhaps a former mortal, growing into their place in the pantheon and the cosmos. But a baby divinity? That idea does not work for me.
(And yes, I realize the real-world implications of that statement. I prefer to leave that angle alone)
Well, my thoughts there was that that how they replaced those 'Greater Manifestations' in the Old Empires. the 'god spirit' would enter a newborn and become the next incarnation.
But maybe I have that wrong - the Old Empires lore is definitely a place I fall short on.
Maybe 'Divine babies' just grow REALLY fast (that's a trope - I think the last time I saw it used was in the Stargate series).....
Imaskari! 
Yeah, you have it wrong. The manifestations didn't die or grow old. They also didn't rule (Gilgeam was different, he ruled directly). The incarnations ruled in the name of the manifestations. The incarnations however were born, gained some of the godly essence at adulthood, and lived out a normal lifespan. Also, to be clear, there might be several incarnations of a given god at a time. In fact, at one point "all" of the incarnations of Horus-Re were killed off around the time of the founding of Thay and an incarnation of Thoth had to rule as Pharaoh. It should be noted that not all of the royal bloodline become incarnations, so apparently another royal child of the house of Horus-Re (Hecaliant I believe) must have become the next incarnation and taken over as Pharaoh from this incarnation of Thoth. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2017 : 00:49:28
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My mistake on the Lamashtu thing. Mythology from that region is a weak spot, for me.  |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2017 : 00:57:03
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No matter how many times we discuss it, the whole 'Incarnations' and 'Manifestations' thing confuses the heck out of me. I keep thinking they're two words for the same exact thing.
Well, I did leave open the option of him sucking a comrade (another Godling) dry instead, when both were mortally wounded (maybe during the Godwar). So there's that.
And I don't know if I came across this before, and just forgot it, but apparently Druaga is the same person as Ahriman. It makes some sense in regards to his title ("Ruler of the Devil-World")*, and some other 'off' lore (the story about Ahriman BEING the Nine Hells is repeated elsewhere, so its more than one source, which I also did not know). I was trying to see if there were any other candidates for 'ruler of Hell' before Asmodeus, and I thought of Druaga. However, he's already associated with the Hells - pre-Zargon even - so there's no need to speculate further.
I peg Lucifer as Hades, so we can leave him out. Both are dudes 'just doing their job' (Lucifer was never actually evil - he was tasked to tempt mortals. He was just way too good at his job).
*EDIT:
And reading even more about Asmodeus and the None Hells, it seems that in 4e it was turned into a 'planet' that drifted in the Astral (like so many other planes with the Great Wheel gone). At first I hated that, but then I read the description - round caverns within caverns, so the whole thing is like one of those 'nesting dolls', and Neesus is on the underside of Cania facing the central, fiery core. I think I like that A lot better than the original version - its more... mythical. The only part I truly hated was that it was drifting in the astral, which has been fixed in 5e, Does anyone know which version it looks like in 5e? Or is that left up to us?
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 30 Nov 2017 21:37:36 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2017 : 11:13:46
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Also thinking about the were crocodiles in adder swamp and the repeated infestations in mulhorand. It seems a bit far for them to migrate from the city on the river of swords to the adder swamp, how would they know about it and why would sebek be worshipped in unther and mulhorand by werecrocodiles only.
Rather i am thinking there are two crocodile cults, one in chessenta and one in mulhorand, and over the ages they merge when the city in mulhorand is destroyed and they go looking for a fabled city in chessenta.
So there was an invasion of beast cults into mulhorand after the orcgate wars i think. This ultimately led to the godkings wearing animal heads as they integrated the cults into their own religions. One of those may have been a crocodile cult that was taken over by a forgottem godking and potential relative of Set.
His main base of worship was the city on the river of swords that was later destroyed. Near there is azulduth and the remnants of okoth. What if the sarrukh tried to make the nearby humans into histaachi (part reptilian so they can control them easy) but the draft had unexpected side effects with the mulan blood that is slightly infused with the divine blood of the godkings. This changed them into a form of werecrocodile and their evil actions on behalf of the sarrukh led to the city being destroyed and the godking exiled for his followers actions.
While in akanu (now chessenta) there was a powerful fey creature called haastasssk who gathered a human following but was ultimately defeated during akanu's war against the fey in its borders. Haastassk (its a name i found associated with sebek in a sourcebook) had a habit of breeding with his followers and spawned humanoid crocdilian children.
When the city of Adanu was flooded and the adder swamp created, Haastaask and his children moved in and were joined by the werecrocodiles from mulhorand. They have since returned to mulhorand to reclaim their city.
The okothian sarrukh are trying their plans to dominate mulhorand again and have used histaachi again with similar effects except it has created wereserpents among the followers of Set. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2017 : 22:01:58
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First off, because he is described as doing his thing (Infection/contagion) 'around the Inner Sea', I would make him a Sea dragon (Serpent), which would also give him a bit of a different spin than most. Secondly, if he is some ancient creature (his 'disease' reminds me of old-school 'Mummy Rot'), you may want to connect him to whatever mysterious, 'god-like' entity is in the Wizard's Reach (its mentioned in the old Spellbound boxed set somewhere - I haven't looked through that in ages).*
And lastly, you may want to connect the disease itself to something found only in the Old Empires, since it appears to behave differently there. Some factor that changes/boosts the disease's symptoms. Since you now seem to be our resident OE expert, you can figure out what that could be (like maybe a piece of Abeir/primordial now stuck in Faerûn?) Somthting both (re)awakened it, and is augmenting it in the Old Empires. thats about as far as I dare go (with my limited OE knowledge).
As for having multiple groups of Werecrocodiles - the more the merrier, I say. They fit the theme of the Old Empires very well, so I would say that maybe having only two groups is being a bit conservative. Isn't Set manipulating Sobek? My thoughts here si that anywhere we find Set, we would find him promoting Sobek's crocodiles. Heck, I'd even throw a group of them up in the vast swamp in Cormyr, at this point.
Oh, and if you want really great visuals or inspiration, look up 'Krokotopia' from Wizards 101. 
Man, I loved that silly little game a few years back.
*EDIT:
Oh, and as for why he's active now; if you don't want to connect his 'return' (or whatever) in the SoFS to the Spellplague, you could also use Sekolah and the Threat form the Sea, or the appearance of the Abolethic Sovereignty in the Inner Sea, both of which may have 'disturbed his rest'. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 30 Nov 2017 22:05:50 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2017 : 03:30:21
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| I think its canon that Sebek/Sobek was supporting Set, at least on certain things. That's why the werecrocodiles went to Okoth, IIRC. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2017 : 13:26:31
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
So while searching chessenta lore i came across a few interesting things, the main one is the Wandering Dragon.
So according to GHoTR, in 1317 DR, this huge dragon disease bag lazily floated around the sea of fallen stars and infected everyone with a plague of some sort, a plague that was different for the Old Empires.
So what is this Wandering Dragon. Is it an actual dragon, is it a construct or a magical creation. Why hasnt it been seen before (or maybe it has and we could link it to other plagues in the inner sea.
My initial thoughts are that it could be an imaskari experiment or a creation of tiamat, or a dragon tiamat found in raurin and allied with.
In pretty sure the wandering dragon appears shortly after tiamat is summoned to firetrees so im happy linking there (unless my memory is out by a few years and tiamat is summoned after 1317).
The bit about the plague being different in the old empires is curious and could be a good way for me to explain the rise in dragonspawn in unther in the 1370s without deific intervention. Perhaps victims of the plague in unther were turned into part draconic creatures and it didnt just affect humans.
A dragon whose breath weapon is a virus? Actually very believable and a different spin on the usual "breathing fire/lightning/cold" thing.... maybe a variant on a green dragon's poison gas.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2017 : 02:15:51
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I was thinking something that looked like a cross between a Lung Dragon (serpent-like) and a Western dragon, like maybe THIS.
I was surprised I didn't find a lot when I goggled 'Sea Dragon', probably because there is a real creature named that (Damn you, science!) There's also This Guy, but methinks he is a bit too Cthulhu-esque.
There are a couple with that sort of tentacle-thing going on in the hindquarters, and more of a traditional dragon 'up front'. Probably more normal-looking though, like THIS or THIS.
Call it a 'Plague Dragon' just to be different. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 02 Dec 2017 02:17:23 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2017 : 02:37:06
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Is Tefnut around? Was she ever around? (canonically, in FR)
Like not only what happened to her officially (if anything), but also whatever you're doing with her (because I found an old 2e adventure - Swamplight - that I plan to stick down in Chult and my new version of Samarach, and she's kinda central to the whole thing... sorta). As I said, OE is far from my area of expertise, and asking here will probably be MUCH quicker than me trying to do my own research (I'll wind up rereading 20 books and get no work done).
EDIT:
Just did a little reading (wikipedia and FRwiki), and Shu (Tefnut's husband) appears to have been canon. He was a 'god of the winds' in FR; I wonder if it was HIM posing as Teylas (supposedly Akadi) in the Hordelands... it is right next door. Unfortunately, that god still acted much more like Talos than anyone (unless Shu is part of talos, or Shu became Talos after absorbing Garagos (it seems like everyone was Talos... except Talos LOL)
Makes me wonder if 'Talos' is more like a title - maybe some dead god who several different deities imitate//pose as. That would help explain a lot, actually. A bunch of gods together and offed Garagos, and then they split up his power and they created this fake 'Talos' guy they all take turns posing as in different regions. Shu could be one of those. Gruumsh + Talos = Garagos, or rather, Garagos - Gruumsh = Talos. That might work as well. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 10 Dec 2017 02:48:42 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2017 : 02:56:02
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From Powers and Pantheons
Geb, god of the earth, is one of the oldest deities of Mulhorand. Following their creation by Ra, Shu and Tefnut produced numerous offspring. The first of these was Geb, who became the earth. Geb was so enraptured with his sister, Nut (the sky), that they instantly embraced. After they had produced four children of their own (Isis, Set, Osiris, and Nephthys), Ra instructed Shu to break up the embrace of Geb and Nut. When the Mulhorandi pantheon left for Abeir-Toril, Ra commanded Geb to send a manifestation and for Nut to remain behind with Shu and Tefnut in order to further separate the prolific pair.
From this statement, I would say that Shu, Nut, and Tefnut are not in the realms. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2017 : 04:22:27
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So Shu and Geb both 'busted a Nut'... and they were their sisters? 
Egyptian culture must have been very... different.
Thanks for the response - the Idol came from 'elsewhere', since I've already made it so the city it was in - Chala - appeared during the Spellplague (but not from Abier - it could have been from Hepmonaland in GH, or Oltec/Azca in Mystara's Hollow World, or somewhere else entirely).
Tefnut isn't in the adventure per se, just a statue of her, whom they worship... but that doesn't really mean anything, especially since they came from another world altogether. Depending on how much detail I want to put into this little project, I may use Bast as a stand-in for this Tefnut (the statue/idol in question IS a cat-headed goddess, after all, and the two are connected to the same pantheon). Besides, putting Bast in a jungle setting lets her get in touch with her savage side (and I've already made the connection between Sharess and Tlazolteotl).
And since I plan to place Set/Zehir in the area as an underground cult with a growing following (they call him Sethir), that would eventually pit Bast against set... which is part of their RW dogma. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 10 Dec 2017 05:04:01 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2017 : 15:21:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
So Shu and Geb both 'busted a Nut'... and they were their sisters?
Egyptian culture must have been very... different.
Thanks for the response - the Idol came from 'elsewhere', since I've already made it so the city it was in - Chala - appeared during the Spellplague (but not from Abier - it could have been from Hepmonaland in GH, or Oltec/Azca in Mystara's Hollow World, or somewhere else entirely).
Tefnut isn't in the adventure per se, just a statue of her, whom they worship... but that doesn't really mean anything, especially since they came from another world altogether. Depending on how much detail I want to put into this little project, I may use Bast as a stand-in for this Tefnut (the statue/idol in question IS a cat-headed goddess, after all, and the two are connected to the same pantheon). Besides, putting Bast in a jungle setting lets her get in touch with her savage side (and I've already made the connection between Sharess and Tlazolteotl).
And since I plan to place Set/Zehir in the area as an underground cult with a growing following (they call him Sethir), that would eventually pit Bast against set... which is part of their RW dogma.
Throw in that Osiris and Isis are married.... brother and sister.... and so were Nephthys and Set. These people were big on marrying internally.... but then they did all come from Atum (I mean Ra).
* = not a documented god ON Toril
# = associated with realmspace/gods in some form
Ra +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Ptah# Thoth
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=========================== +
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Shu* +++ Tefnut* Bast Hathor +++
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======== =====
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Geb +++ Nut* Anhur
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=============================
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Isis +++ Osiris Nephthys +++ Set +++ Mornach (archfey)
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Horus Anubis# Sebakar
Then there's some kind of disturbing stories that aren't documented in the realms about how some other deities came about or what they did to one another. For instance, Set essentially tried to rape Horus to prove himself "dominant", but Horus caught Set's seed in his hands. Horus goes to mama Isis, and she helps him rid himself of the seed by chopping off Horus' hands. She then helps Horus gain an erection, gathers some of his seed, and has it placed upon a lettuce plant that Set will eat. Later, Set calls to become ruler of the pantheon claiming he has spread his semen into Horus. Thoth acts as arbiter and calls to Set's semen and finds it nowhere in Horus, but then Horus has Thoth call to Horus' semen and it answers from within Set... think about that the next time you eat a salad with creamy ranch dressing.
Shut and Tefnut were created by Atum (aka Ra) masturbating
I've actually been going with the idea that Hathor was already a realmsian goddess, as a great cow "goddess".... some northmen called her Audumbla.... some call her Bhalla (possibly a shortened version of audumbla).... some ibixians, minotaurs, and yak-men worship her as Hathor in my version of Katashaka... and she eventually began morphing into other creatures to serve other pantheons.... for instance as Nekhebet the vulture headed goddess of mothers, and as Heqet the frog headed goddess of childbirth for the batrachi. In this way she'd be "kind of" like Ulutiu, Uthgar, Ubtao, and Rillifane where they have something like lesser spirit versions of themselves that serve them. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2017 : 16:36:13
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Yeah, Egyptian mythology is just too weird and unrealistic for our modern sensibilities.
Not like Adam and Eve... who had two SONS... who then created all the people of the world.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 10 Dec 2017 16:36:27 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2017 : 16:57:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Yeah, Egyptian mythology is just too weird and unrealistic for our modern sensibilities.
Not like Adam and Eve... who had two SONS... who then created all the people of the world.
Lol, yeah, when you delve into all these religions... at their roots they get a little disturbing. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Reimagining Old Empires
