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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3545 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2017 :  06:53:43  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The order of the black flame is driven out of unther and into thay. Thay has a strong church of kossuth today and historically one of its neighbours summoned an avatar of kossuth.

The black flame zealots almost certainly originate in the thay area, and most likely involve the members of the order of the black flame. The regional and name coincidences are too strong to ignore.

Order of the black flame is destroyed. Some of its members flee north to thay. They set up cabals that we know today form part of the secret politics of thay. Some of those cabals discover from the nativea about kossuth and the church of kossuth in thay is born with the black flame zealots as a specialist arm. Whether the birth of either is in thay or the wizards reach probably doesnt matter.

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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3545 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2017 :  07:31:10  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It also seems likely that the former members of the black flame are in part responsible for the rebellion of the wizards reach being successful which in turn aided chessenta in its break up and break away into city states.

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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3545 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2017 :  20:53:18  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A brief skeleton for Red Haven (which I'm renaming to Nissel).

I've decided to make Nissel the gateway to Unther for outsiders. Its soo rough and lawless that Gil-Geamesq pretends it doesn't exist because past attempts to clear it out have failed and the God-King cannot fail.

All the illegal items you want can be found here. Secret organisations from across Faerun use Nissel as the starting point to get agents into Unther.

THe only problem with Nissel is that just about every inhabitant is a capable and bloodthirsty killer with a complete lack of morals (or is pretending to be that) so its not exactly a friendly place.

https://alternaterealmsblog.wordpress.com/nissel-red-haven/

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14387 Posts

Posted - 23 Oct 2017 :  06:58:32  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I still liked the Firetrees better over where that other forest was in 1e/2e, that we lost (The Maerchwood). Its in the same general area, and we'd have a good reason for gaining it back now (I'm thinking we actually lost it during the Tot, not the Spellplague - there was some 'terrain swapping' going on with Abeir during that as well, according to BRJ).

People forget that we have a great McGuffin in the setting if we felt like sticking something on Abeir another 30 years in the past, for some reason. Anything that disappeared between 2e and 3e may have gone over (and we lost quite a lot of terrain).

quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

I don't get it, but then I don't eat a lot of soup
Well, you don't really have to be a Naruto fan to get that one. Every college student (or other person on a broke-ass budget) knows about Ramen.

Interesting trivia: Did you know the Japanese call it 'Ramen', because they can't pronounce the Chinese name for it - Lomein? True fact!


Now back to our regularly scheduled thread...

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 23 Oct 2017 07:03:14
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3545 Posts

Posted - 23 Oct 2017 :  10:20:18  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Added some a new npc Mangred "the ram" as an npc and captain of The Alamber Ram, a pirate ship that operates out of nissel.

Mangred is a contact the pcs can use in town, hes a pirate but hes a fair pirate, he will probably transport the pcs for a price without dumping their bodies in the sea (probably), and he hates gilgeams rule in unther

Also added a rather well equipped drinking, whoring, and gambling den in nissel called the Sea Hag (the escorts are called "the hags". Its meant to be a meeting place for PCs, but its also a front for a Harper friend who uses the business to get information out of its clients (get them drunk or in bed) and the most useful patrons suddenly find themselves with massive debts in the gambling dens that they can pay off with information or favours.

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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3545 Posts

Posted - 23 Oct 2017 :  21:42:02  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Expanded a bit on the Methwood and the elven presence in the Old Empires before Imaskar. It's detailed on the Unther page

https://alternaterealmsblog.wordpress.com/unther/

Created a new elven realm (tentatively named Enyllstaar) which is documented as being home to dark skinned elves.

Detailed a bit about Myth Vaelorthae (City of Beautiful Blades - Named for the enormously tall trees that stood out of the forest canopy like green swords).
Metos sits atop this city (which was really just a grove of huge trees). The Imaskari flattened the grove and built their fortress atop it.

Metos was abandoned when Imaskar fell but the turami slaves soon moved back in after the Mulan drove them out of Unther and Akanu. These turami were joined by the remaining elves of Enyllstaar who fled the destruction of the forest by Unther and Akanu.

The ancient magics of Myth Vaelorthae allowed animals and plants to reach their full potential no matter the limitations (such as poor diet). This magic has been corrupted with age and the tinkering of TiaMa'at (who found it around 200 DR and lived here until 1018 DR when the dracorage drove her insane), it now is causing massive overgrowth of vegetation and animals and the merging of creatures to create weird hybrids creatures.

Skuuthosiin lives in Metos, ruling over tribes of feral turami half elves. He only has access to a few extra dimensional spaces of Metos (each space requires a different key) and so there is still much treasure left in the ruins.

There are still other elves of Enyllstaar left in the Methwood. They hate all outsiders and will hide first and attack if pressed. They war with Skuuthosiin and his servants constantly trying to regain the ability to regrow their elder groves (Myth Vaelorthae was mobile, they could replant the groves with acorns from the original trees but they lost this ability over the millennia).

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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3545 Posts

Posted - 24 Oct 2017 :  21:30:31  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wondering how a sage from an insular place like Unther knows about Myth Unnohyr in Calimshan.

Vulmikka of Unther, known as “The Dark Sister” is one of only two sages that knows anything about Myth Unnohyr.

Myth Unnohyr is a mythal city of Keltormir (a nation of elves fell during the Crown Wars), while Unther did not even exist back then and has almost no connection to the outside world.


My first thoughts are that the elves of Unther that I just created (Enyllstaar) and Keltormir had some portal connection somehow. I'm kind of thinking that Enyllstaar is a nation filled with half drow, half wild elves. It was an ally of Illythiir, but not a willing one (it initially sided with Illythiir but was horrified when the forest burning and demon and devil influences became apparent).

Illythiir created a portal network as its armies travelled north and east towards the Vyshaan Empire, so that it could resupply its forces and reinforce the occupation of its conquered territories (Maybe call it the Path of Burning Leaves).

Rather than have the portal network lead right back to Illythiir however, it had the terminus end in Enyllstaar so that should anyone compromise the portal network they would not be able to reach the Illythiir homeland through it.

So the ruins of Myth Unnohyr (in the north of the forest of Mir, where a major battle of the crown wars took place (page 13 of GHOTR) was the site of one of these portals and Vulmikka discovered it.

The question still remains who is Vulmikka. With a title like "The Dark Sister" I'm tempted to make her a follower of TiaMa'at who is known as "The Dark Lady", maybe a dragon type creature.


And I added more information to Nissel, including one of the Grey Chimera Inns and the owner of the Sea Hag (her name is a clue to her origin that I may expand upon later).

https://alternaterealmsblog.wordpress.com/nissel-red-haven/

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Martinsky
Seeker

Canada
21 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2017 :  01:49:20  Show Profile Send Martinsky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Half-drow I like this one! I was about to suggest you to add something related to drow.
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3545 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2017 :  08:29:49  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well at the moment the half drow are only their to give the pcs something to do, literally.

Half drow dont really fit in unther, nor do any demihumans really, the confusing canon hints that they are enslaved normally but it doesnt mention what happens to foreign visitors but i have foreign demihumans enslaved immediately (or attempted enslavement).

However there is a criminal organisation of drow that has established a faux cult that supposedly worships a combination of shar and lolth but is in reality a drug peddler. That i chose to base in nissel but will definitely have half drow operatives in unthalass and messemprar as the dusky skinned half drow can pass for mulan in poor light.

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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3545 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2017 :  13:25:43  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Noticed some mention of the desert of desolation module in regards to the old empires.

Ive had a quick read through and some thoughts on how to realmsify it.

The statement of everything occuring 1000 years ago isnt far enough back so im going to assume 1000 years actually meant thousands of years ago.

Also no djinn or efreet, thats too zakhara or calimshan. I think efreet and djinn are just a catch all term for any malevolent or benevolent highly magical being.

Also after reading scott bennie's pdf on the old empires which mentions a big bad imaskanoloth (a massive skriaxit) then ive decided to link somethings together.



So the mulan have a massive fight with the senior imaskari artificers in the purple palace. The emperor yuvaraj is killed and so the artificers unleash a magic so powerful it hadnt been used since before the mulan were kidnapped (it accidentally caused the plague that turns people to dust devils).

So the purple palace and the entire capital of imaskar is consumed into a gigantic, self sustaining dust devil called the imaskanoloth. This huge whirlwind remains in place and churns up the whole capital into dust.

The mulan move south to Raurin and establish rule over the raurin people (the imask tribe of the raurin people had the north of this region). The Raurin Empire doesnt last more than a century due to rebellions and fear that the Imaskanoloth is coming for them.

The mulan people move into the great vale and abandon raurin. The raurin people survive and rule themselves for a time but they have inherited a number of mulan customs and gods (which is why Anu and Re have temples here).

Eventually the Raurin people are pushed further and further south and east into durpar.


Martek is not a good guy. He is actually an old imaskari artificer who sacrifices himself to keep the imaskanoloth trapped in raurin (the dustwall being as far as it could go), but at the same time lays the foundation to become a demilich (the star gems are each one of his many phylacteries).

And the efreet khasilieth (or whatever he is called) was the most powerful artificer performing the ritual that created the imaskanoloth, he is the primary intelligence driving the creature.

The mulhorandi have been sacrificing their incarnations to keep the imaskanoloth at bay (it recedes when it consumes one so the mulhorandi feed it a new one every few centuries, but each incarnation consumed makes it larger and soon the dustwall will no longer stop it).

The imaskanoloth consumed all life in the raurin region, turning it into a desert, but it took a long time.


Marteks actual plan was to keep the imaskanoloth contained until it was really powerful while laying a false trail that the star gems would bring him back to destroy the creature. What will actually happen when martek returns is that the bindings keeping the imaskanoloth in raurin will end and the creature will be free to destroy the mulan (and they will not be powerful enough to stop it).


Or at least thats my idea at the moment.

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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3545 Posts

Posted - 30 Oct 2017 :  20:45:39  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Got a beginning of a page about Raurin

So far just working in some lore from Encyclopedia Magica and from Elminster's Ecologies with the Desert of Desolation module.

I'm pretty much decided that Martek is actually evil but his legend has been confused and he is actually somebody very ancient that has an interest in Imaskar and its artefacts (as a clue - Solon)

https://alternaterealmsblog.wordpress.com/raurin/

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14387 Posts

Posted - 31 Oct 2017 :  07:00:12  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I was rewriting a bunch of that myself awhile back.

I think I had it where I said Martek was 'depowered' due to the war with the Pharonic gods, and thats why he couldn't just resolve the problem the first time (because there is a HUGE plothole there - if his plan was so good, why didn't he just do it, instead of postponing it a thousand years, give or take? it makes no sense).

Except the war with the Pharonics would have happened too far back in the timeline, so he must have gotten into a battle with someone else (Nezram?), which left him severely weakened, and he was forced to put himself in stasis until her recovered. But even that starts to fall apart if you look at it too long. He had enough power to summon the djinn, and then he sets up this big elaborate plot to get rid of his enemy far in the future.

I think it was at that point I just sort of said, "I'll get back to this".

I like the idea it was his plan to capture the Efreet all along - that gives us a reason for the delay (he wasn't prepared enough to control it - he needed a different type of pentagram/whatever, and he was only able to banish it). Then he had to wait the usual thousand years before such a creature was allowed to return (I think its like a century for normal fiends, but if this thing was an elemental Lord - like a Sultan of the Efreet, banishing could last longer).

And then Martek binds the Djinn and the Efreet in the conjoined crystals (now just a giant crystal), and he has to stay in it himself, guarding them, for all time... as a lich... The Raurindi Crystal!

Where have I heard all this before...

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 31 Oct 2017 07:03:03
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3545 Posts

Posted - 31 Oct 2017 :  08:03:38  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes the similarities between mulhorand and calimshan are very difficult to avoid. Thats why i ditched the idea of an efreet and a djinn and instead made the big bad the skriaxit (but a super version of the skriaxit).

I figure that ambuch ah i mean martek would want access to all the stuff of imaskar and its easier to do that with all the imaskari survivor states dead.

Im changing my mind now and dont think martek planned to lure the skriaxit and trap it, instead i think he was just making the tomb of amun re to become a gigantic magical repository and somekind of imaskari artefact. The concentration of magic lured the skriaxit towards martek and that interrupted the ritual binding martek to the star gems (making him a licj) and trapping the skriaxit within a 50 mile radius of the gems (distance im not decided on as i do not know how large the raurin basin is).

I am also tyinh in another major character from murghom who would also have wanted the magic of imaskar and ancient super powered beings, its based on a myth in elminsters ecologies and the peryton. I figure that time and culture corrupted the myth so that the names of the gods involved were used incorrectly. It would be a god of evil corrupted the khala, then the gods of sun, justice, magic, and nature cursed the khala into a twisted form.

After all our own legends about noahs ark are corrupted way beyond the event of the strait of gibraltar collapsing and flooding the meditteranean basin so the same thing should happen with FR myths.


Ive also got pharoahs way after the collapse of imaskar. One source states there was a proto unther and proto mulhorand in raurin so that likely lasted a century or two before the mulan abandoned raurin. Then we have the rise of small kingdoms that would have styled themselves after the mulan so likely had pharoahs as well. Im keeping these little kingdoms way up until -1200 DR when martek destroys it all (he was hired by amun re).

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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3545 Posts

Posted - 31 Oct 2017 :  17:45:53  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just narrowed down the date of ambuchar devayam arriving in solon and its about 100 dr after a few hints in the horde boxed set.

I wonder why he hung around solon for a millennia. What was he looking for (although it was the one time capital of upper imaskar) and it says he was searching for imaskari artefacts. Im gonna put him down as looking to secure the star gems.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14387 Posts

Posted - 01 Nov 2017 :  00:31:15  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nah.

He was looking for the Black Diamond. He needed it to create Horcrux (multiple phylactories), but since he couldn't find it, he instead used the Five Ebon Weapons of Imaskar, and split a piece of his soul into each one of those.

Of course, if you read the (Horde) modules, there were only four Ebon Weapons. The adventurers (and Shih) never knew there was fifth Black Weapon, so Tan Chin survived {Duh duh duh!!!}

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 01 Nov 2017 00:31:49
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14387 Posts

Posted - 01 Nov 2017 :  00:43:02  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

I figure that ambuch ah i mean martek would want access to all the stuff of imaskar and its easier to do that with all the imaskari survivor states dead.
I just caught this...

Tan Chin as Martek? That has possibilities... I never even considered that. It does give us an excuse for burying him (Tan Chin) for a millennia.

And, of course, Martek would have been a real person, just as Ambuchar Devyam was, and also that governor down in Tempat Larang (I can't be bothered looking that up*, but it was in Ronin Challenge). His particular lichy nature lends itself nicely to this kind of scenario... he could have been anybody!

Him... what if he isn't even Tan Chin? What if 'Tan Chin' himself was an alias adopted by a Sarrukh? It wouldn't be the first time something like that's happened.

Could even be the SAME Sarrukh.
'Tan Chin' in Devic = 'Earth Sage'.


*EDIT:
Tsao Choo - 'an early Emperor of Shou-Loung', but given his story with Meilan is identical to that with Tan Chin, its definitely the same guy. He wasn't the governor as I thought - that was a different guy (but I think I at some point hypothesized he had used Governor Chunbi as well). Now that I'm re-reading the material, it might make more sense to make him the Wu Jen Kimasogi (he may have been a student/disciple of Tan Chin's - I'm sure a brilliant, paranoid dude like Tan chin would have personal agents as 'advisors' next to all his governors).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 01 Nov 2017 02:04:28
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3545 Posts

Posted - 01 Nov 2017 :  09:21:09  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well ive finished a writeup of the flail of the desert kings and the circlet of the adder.

Ive linked then to martek when his ritual went all wrong and it warped these items. The rod now converts anyone it touches into "star spawn" which are then under the controller of the wielder of the flail but martek has ultimate control. These star spawn are slowly drained of life to feed martek, gradually becoming more and more ethereal until they disappear altogether. Star spawn have star shapes in their forehead and the flail lies somewhere under unthalass.

The circlet of the adder was used in raurin as one of the twin regalia of the raurin empire. Created by the godkings that would go on to form mulhorand, it was supposed to make the wearer loyal to the godkings but it favoured set above all. Its transformation during marteks ritual added other unknown powers to it but set recovered it and altered it again. It now allows set to create divine minions of set just by touching them.

In considering making martek/ambuchar be really the secret identity of madryoch. He is trapped in the plane of shadow and possesses people much like a ghost does (the shadow plane also being a coexistent transitive plane like the ethereal). He possessed martek and cast that ritual but it went horribly wrong and now he is a demilich with his soul split between thw star gems.
Ambuchar Devayam got hold of a star gem and became the new body for madryoch. Ambuchar now seeks to gather the other star gems together so he can destroy them in a new planar trap artefact he has cobbled together out of the remains of the imaskari planar barrier (it will trap his soul once released from the star gems so he can put it in ambuchar or anothers body and come back to life).
Ambuchar has laid a false trail for people to gather the star gems from where they have been kept, then once all 4 are gathered he will transport the carriers to him so he can destroy them and the gems.
Ambuchar cant go into raurin because he imaskaroloth is attracted to concentrations of magic and he is a big one.

The imaskaroloth is a massive whirlwind of destruction created by the last artificers in inuprath as the mulan were winning. The artificers intelligence is trapped in the whirlwind and they control it, but khasilieth (the head of the ritual) is the most dominent. The imaskaroloth strips anything it touches to dust in time (minutes for flesh, hours for sandstone). It drains magic although cannot destroy permanent magic fields.
The imaskaroloth is tied to a 500 mile radius (however big raurin is) of the tomb of amun re. It wants to be free and knows that destroying the star gems is the key to that so it is using efreeti allies to gather the gems to him.

Set is the last major player in raurin. He wants the imaskaroloth freed to destroy mulhorand so that he can save it and rebuild it in his image. He is one of the few beings to have commmunicated with the imaskaroloth and came up with the plan where it approaches mulhorands border every century so the godkings can send an incarnation to feed it so it will depart.

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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3545 Posts

Posted - 01 Nov 2017 :  20:51:04  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So the Imaskari construct twin portals to kidnap humans from other worlds and enslave them.

I had always assumed that there was one portal for each of the peoples that would be the Mulan (the Mulhorandi and the Untheric people). But then of course it came to me that the proto Chessentans - which I call Akanic - also were kidnapped.

So now I'm thinking that perhaps these two portals were not in the same place.

During the time that the portals were built, Imaskar was not being ruled from Inupras (that was in ruins) it was actually split into Upper and Lower Imaskar with Upper Imaskar ruled from Thakos (now Saikhoi in Ra-Khati) and Lower Imaskar ruled from Solon. What if the twin portals were one near Solon and one near Thakos and they brought totally different groups of people to Faerun (the Mulan and the Shou perhaps).

Furthermore Tan-Chin was seemingly a good person according to Shou history and then suddenly assassinated the emperor and became super evil. That was all after a visit to Thakos. I wonder what he could have found that might turn him evil (a malfunctioning portal that released an evil possessing spirit from its millennia long imprisonment)

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dazzlerdal
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Posted - 01 Nov 2017 :  21:21:41  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Detailed The Black Sword. Made it from the error where Imaskar was split (I'm assuming it had two rulers and one of them would not have been happy with the other attempting to reunite the two halves by taking Inupras).

Named it Blaek's Sword after Empheroar Blaek of Upper Imaskar.

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Markustay
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Posted - 01 Nov 2017 :  21:26:25  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You need to read the history of Meilan - some of it is in Black Courser in section IV. This same story is repeated in Ronin Challenge (its in the Library of Perpustakan, except they are calling him Tsao Choo (which is probably his son or some other descendant he possessed as well*). he was a 'good' emperor (depending on your perspective, of course) - he was an Imaskari artificer who 'saved' the eastern half of the empire after Imaskar fell, and created Anok-Imaskar, which is also referred to as "The First Empire of Shou" (making Tan Chin the first emperor of Shou-Lung, which fits all the other lore). He may have taken on the name/persona/body of Tsao Choo upon his return to imaskar**. Anyhow, 'Immortal Meilan' was actually a succubus (and eastern variety), and seduced him and turned him to evil (I am assuming through paranoia... after all, his last empire was 'taken down from within'). The weird thing is, in some stories she is not depicted as evil, but since Black Courser is supposed to be the TRUE history, one can assume that much of the stories from that early time period were later altered (which is canon - the histories are changed each time an emperor takes the throne, to cast him in the best possible light). That, BTW, is a rather ingenious way of fudging inconsistent lore.

*My thoughts here is that he wouldn't want folks to know he was the same person. At least, not at first, because then they may question how he is so long-lived 9and also how he avoided getting killed by the Goldy Manifestations of Mulan). I think he was gone for some time (my other theories regarding an ancient connection between GH and FR) - probably centuries. I think he was involved in Bhaluin (I've spun it where Hilathar started the college there, but it could have been tan Chin just as well), so he may have been there when the Raurin got hit with the divine Nuke. I'm considering having a meteor ('tear') sam into the Raurin, maybe called down by Re or someone else, maybe even one of the Imaskari in desperation. Maybe Pandorym did that ("Please help us! Do whatever it takes, but kill those Gods!") Anyhow, not wanting be associated with all that, and probably wanting to keep a 'low profile' in regards to being a former Imaskari Archsorcerer, he became Tsao Choo (and then later adjusted the histories to include himself again).

**There were three empires of Shou, and the first one - Anok-Imaskar - was ruled by Tan Chin, but all traces and connections back to old Imaskar have been 'erased' in K-T's histories. This empire would have included the former Kao Empire lands, which was just the western portion of Kara-Tur, all the way down to the southern coast (Sea of Segarra - that part of the history can only be found in Ronin Challenge). Each successive empire moved the border further east, until it reached that coast (Celestial Sea), and all the indigenous Haltai (FR Asians) and Ang (FR 'Indians') had been conquered.

There were also three major periods/empires in Imaskari history, making for a total of five 'empires' (one gets included twice, so there are only five, not six, unless we include my theoretical Kao Empire, which has canon history in The Horde sources). I also have to wonder if there might have actually been a 'good' Meilan - a human woman who was possessed (or replaced) by the succubus.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Markustay
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Posted - 01 Nov 2017 :  22:15:15  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
On the twin portals thing - there are only two in canon?

Putting one in Ra-Khati (just Khati back then, and would have include Khazari and Guge) could work, but why put one in Solon? To give Tan Chin (ya know... I almost type 'Szass Tan' ) a reason for digging around in there so long?

Right now I am thinking there was a group of pre-existing spirit folk in the region (and early group of Cortai {humans} that intermingled with the fey in pre-historic times). These would have been tribal, and very much like ancient Celts. They understood fey (geography) magic very well, and felt abandoned when the Fey left Abeir-Toril. They were a tall, fair folk.

Then there was a few waves of Bedine ('lost ones') coming up out of the Zakhara, at first due to the Scattering of Fate, and later, due to a war between the ruling Genie Lords (which culminated in most of them fleeing to Calimshan). The Bedine nomads 'settled' all throughout the Utter East and on into the Golden waters region, finally running into the Spiritfolk on the other side of the mountains. The two groups got along about as well as native Americans did (some tribes fought, others were friends... you get the idea).

Then a holy-man named Ima got a vision, and traveled out into the Raurin basin, where he discovered an ancient buried (and very alien) temple to a god he called Aoskar. This is where the fun begins. Some Bedine and some Maraloi (spiritfolk Cortai) begin to follow him, and restore the temple. This eventually becomes 'The Holy City' of a burgeoning Imaskari Empire (Ima's Kar mean 'those who came from Ima', Kar usually meaning 'children', 'child', or just 'offspring'). So the two people became one (about half - the others remained separate, and the Bedine bloodline became the Raurindi people of the Golden Waters area. The Cortai migrated east and west, to get away from the expanding Imaskari). People with a stronger Maraloi (spiritfolk) bloodline were naturally more adapt at wielding powerful magics, so the people with more of that 'look' became the dominant group of Imaskar (eventually, the nobility, which were all mages, just like in Netheril). This is where the Mulan get their weird idea that "lighter skin tomes = 'purer'" (more magically inclined).

The final group to join came into the picture late, probably after the collapse of the first Imaskar empire - the Kao Empire (Mar/Ang people from southern K-T). They were smart, and had their own traditions. The Kao were ancient even by Imaskar's standards, and in decline (like how Alexander found the people of the Indian sub-continent). Many settled in the region that would later become Semphar (hence, THAT culture). The old empire of Kao wasn't too keen on losing its citizens to this new upstart, and went to war... it didn't end well for them. It was like when Xerxes ran into the Greeks. They not only lost, but they lost all their northern provinces as well (Guge, and the mountain kingdom of Khati). Later, after the fall of Imaskar-proper, Anok-Imaskar would conquer the last remnant of the Kao, and what little was left fell into disarray (the situation we have as of 2e).

So the Imaskari were their own ethnicity, combining at-first two groups, and then later absorbing a third, and then even later adding several off-world races into the mix as well. The Imaskari language - Devic - would have mostly derived from Maraloi (spiritfolk Cortai), which itself derived from Fae (which in turn derived from 'the Language Primeval'). I theorize that speakers of Fae (the Fey language) and speakers of old, 'High Imaskari' (Devic) could probably understand about 50% of what the other is saying. In The Realms, both would be considered pretty-much 'dead languages' (except the Imaskari and Eladrin came back, so not so much the case anymore).

And thats what I have, in a nutshell, based upon all possible sources, and me adding-in proto-groups wherever needed (most of which is based upon references in the lore itself).

I used to think The Fey's original stomping grounds was the Taan (Horde) region. but I've been changing my mind about that, as I adjust my history bits. I had their original homeland (Ladinion) down in the Hanya Maut Plateau, and I still like that, but my thoughts now are that they spread outward, not just north and west, so that at one point, some 30K+ years ago, they WERE the Kara-Turrans. The Haltai would have originated in the islands over there, and the Ang would have 'appeared' (having given them a lot of thought, other than 'they must have existed') somewhere down in the region I dubbed Dweepam (lower K-T). The Cortai originated in the Hordelands, and split into the eastern (Issa)Cortai, and western (Allu)Cortai. Some Issa-Cortai still exist, in the Ama basin, way up north. The Allu-Cortae would eventually become the 'ice people' of The North (Faerūn), while others mingled into the the primitive Talfir tribes (later becoming the 'gardt' tribes, who became the Uthgardt). They go so far back in FR history they may even be the precursors the Northmen, although I am leery about that group having a Faerūnian origin).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 01 Nov 2017 22:20:20
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dazzlerdal
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Posted - 02 Nov 2017 :  09:06:47  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I figure that a major work like creating a portal to another planet will take quite a bit of infrastructure behind it to gather reagents and materials and people capable of creating it. So that limits to being built near a major city.

Then we have the plague that decimated the population of imaskar as a whole, not just raurin, so it is likely that multiple parts of this massive empire needed a population boost.

Finally the empire was split in two at this point with one capital at solon and another at thakos in ra khati. The two cities are fairly close so it may have been a joint effort and shared resources. A capital city is most likely to have the resources and trade links to get anything else they might need.

And lastly is why two portals. Its not connected to the number of groups of people kidnapped as there were three groups we know of (so the endpoint can be changed) which says that the split was for another reason (such as upper and lower imaskar) so again im at it being a capital city.

Yes magic means they could do it anywhere bu teleporting stuff about but magic is very expensive (in my version, which ignores D&Ds blatantly broken economy) so you dont use powerful magics like teleportation just to move a bunch of items.


As for populations, what you suggest seems to fit in with existing lore although im only concentrating on where the imaskari come from (which is durpar according to the lore) not where the pre imaskari come from, when i did look at kara tur and the hordelands i did notice the presence of a fey realm there but not necessarily populated with humans (although interbreeding may have occured later) that the imaskari/anok imaskari may have wiped out.

Still dont like the link of imaskar to fey though. It doesnt fit the culture (magical or otherwise), whereas batrachi ruins are noted in its history a lot and im more comfortable with having their magic influence imaskar. Fey having an empire seems anathema to the very nature of fey.

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Markustay
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Posted - 03 Nov 2017 :  08:18:37  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Fey would not have had an empire. We are talking about time spans 3-4 times that of the sum total of all known human history. 'The Fey' (Eladrin nowadays) would have been long gone when Imaskar first came around. What they left behind were spiritfolk - fey-blooded humans. They would have been an early, Celt-like group in the middle-Taan region. Those humans - the Cortae - would have spread east and west, and been the ones to build all the menhirs and other Druid-type ruins we find all over Faerūn.

Most of the 'pure' (human) Cortae would migrated out of the area as several other, hostile groups were moving in (and we are talking about Cromagnum like groups here), and nearly all of the Fey went to the Feywild just before the sundering. So what I am talking about is a small group of human/fey hybrids (spiritfolk - the history of Guge has some information on this) who were dwelling in the raurin basin, and then the Mujhari culture came up from The Golden Waters, and began to settle the region as well. I need several cultures to explain the anomaly of skin color (because I can't say "they used their magic to 'get white'"), and it also helps us explain how Imaskari magic traditions developed from different sources (so I can get rid of my theoretical 'Anoque' Now - the Spiritfolk ARE the Anoque!)

So Fey never had an empire. They had a 'stomping grounds', which was probably centered around Guge some 30k+ years ago, and extended for over a thousand miles in every direction (so the entirety of the Tann region, and also down into the Larang valleys and the Segara Sea). Once Ladinion had been corrupted, most of them left for the Feywild. Interestingly, I have it where the Goddess Danu (Uber-Archfey) sacrificed herself to create Faerie within the Feywild, to replace their lost homeland. Whilst looking for info on Rakshasa just now, I ran into a connection between Danu and the rakshasas, which is pretty damn cool, since I have them both in the same general area (My Raksasha lords are in the Yehimals, while the 'fey' culture is all around those mountains).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 03 Nov 2017 08:21:08
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dazzlerdal
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Posted - 03 Nov 2017 :  14:40:51  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thats alright then. Small groups i can deal with. Of course that means imaskar likely had input from batrachi, fey, and sarrukh (i think in that order). The concept of an alliance with the fey is just impossible to my mind. The imaskaro dont ally, they conquer, and the fey are not united in any way.

Im not going to give it all that much of an influence though since i just do see anything of the fey in the sources about imaskar and its culture. They were brutal, they were slavers, they were conquerors, they were orderes, they are a typical human culture which is usually alien to any fey.

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dazzlerdal
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Posted - 06 Nov 2017 :  21:16:38  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Mostly finished the story of Raurin, broken it up into distinct ages.

Imaskar
Raurin Empire
Imaskari Successor States
Desert

Got the Imaskaroloth as the big bad. Madryoch the Ebon Flame, aka Martek, aka Ambuchar Devayam, aka Tan Chin as the secret big bad manipulating everything.

The Sandvoyagers Guild are secretly run by the Amethyst Sodality which are a group originally set up by surviving Imaskari Artificers that wanted to recover the magics of Imaskar and restore it but their descendants are mostly concerned with trade (picture a non evil Knights of the Shield). The common folk whispering about a Secret Imaskari Empire are really referring to the Amethyst Sodality who have a monopoly on trade passing through former Imaskari Lands.



Madryoch escaped from his imprisonment and possessed Tan Chin. Tan Chin failed in his attempt to become emperor and fled to Raurin. Called Amadryk (pronounced Madrek, now known as Martek to myths and legends) he attempted to get hold of as much Imaskari magic as possible and empower himself with a huge ritual. It backfired and he became a demilich tied to the 5 star gems.

Madryoch wants to be alive again. he has seeded Raurin with clues and hints so that adventurers can retrieve his phylacteries and bring them to Solon where he intends to destroy them using the Shadow Stone (big orb that drains all magic when activated - but allows people keyed to it to keep casting using it's own Weave). Once the phylacteries are gone he can restore himself to life and rule all.


https://alternaterealmsblog.wordpress.com/raurin/

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