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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2018 : 07:47:34

Done, you must have read my mind as I was thinking that priests wouldn't like the dirty messy stuff, so they prefer the killing be done before they arrive.

This has led to a new guild I've created called the guild of openers who handle the actual slaughtering and who are rumoured to provide a similar service for humanoids which makes them a state sponsored assassins guild

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2018 : 18:54:24

So the ritual slaughter I'm thinking about calling it Meweraed, meaning mothers lament.

Also added a noble house for Ra and Horus given that I'm not explicitly stating any family relation between the godkings, each found their own house (although Ra house was founded by his daughter's as he had no sons).

House Helthaunt was Ra and House Calliant was Horus (I noticed too many godkings founded houses that had the same first letter as their name which looks awful so I mixed them up a bit).

House Helthaunt wants to get back the power it had millennia ago and it's latest attempt to do so is to help support rezims plans in return for honorary titles and positions in government. Rezim is using house Helthaunt to gain approval for the direct sale of slaves, this will then give him lots of ready cash that he can spend on mercenaries to replace the priests of anhurs when another failure strikes them (he is engineering one in the assassination of a few key figures, he knows an assassination is planned he just intends to let it happen)

sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11690 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2018 : 22:40:33

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I like that idea but not the one where the actual priests are responsible for essentially abattoir work. I would see the priests "blessing" a particular group of individuals to oversee what would in reality be the work of slaves, involving use of holy incense, chants and prayers, etc.

-- George Krashos

This is a good idea, but for the physical things that get blessed, I'd very much focus on the blade itself. Maybe the blade itself is prayed over and some minor enchantment given to it for say sharpness. Also, things like dipping the blade into holy water between cuts, etc... Hmm, in fact, this could be another method for the church to "tax" certain people, in that they provide them holy water in return for tithes to the church. Since the knife itself is made holy to a certain deity, the deity also gains some measure of power from the sacrifice. Of course, this would give a bit of a darker perspective to this pantheon... but I'm fine with them being a bit darker.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11690 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2018 : 22:46:01

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I like that idea but not the one where the actual priests are responsible for essentially abattoir work. I would see the priests "blessing" a particular group of individuals to oversee what would in reality be the work of slaves, involving use of holy incense, chants and prayers, etc.

-- George Krashos

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 22 Nov 2018 : 07:59:40

Well seeing as the killing is now guild performed it will still be ritualized and the service they provide may use religious objects to give them that edge over none guild butchers.

I'm going to steer clear of commercialisation of Mulhorands religion though, first because I dislike it in real life and second I don't think it existed as a concept in medieval times.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 22 Nov 2018 : 20:24:42

Okay so the Old Empires sourcebook says that sheep, goats, pigs, and cows are reared in the Great Vale. Sheep and Goats are typically reared on highland regions I believe as they do not require as much looking after or as much quality food as pigs and cows (I'm not a farmer but I've observe cattle and pigs in lowland areas and sheep and goats in rocky high areas - although Scottish cattle seem the exception).

In the realms we have rothe, which are a hairy cow. Are there equivalent goat, sheep, and pig names. I'm imagining that the current rothe breeds are not enough to cater for those being reared in Mulhorand because rothe are hairy and would likely die quite quickly in the heat and sun. Maybe a new type of rothe - the bald rothe, tall and thin and yellow in colour, perhaps as something special it can change colour or imitate sounds.

Still need alternate names for sheep, goats, and pigs.

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6643 Posts

Posted - 22 Nov 2018 : 23:11:33

quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Okay so the Old Empires sourcebook says that sheep, goats, pigs, and cows are reared in the Great Vale. Sheep and Goats are typically reared on highland regions I believe as they do not require as much looking after or as much quality food as pigs and cows (I'm not a farmer but I've observe cattle and pigs in lowland areas and sheep and goats in rocky high areas - although Scottish cattle seem the exception).

In the realms we have rothe, which are a hairy cow. Are there equivalent goat, sheep, and pig names. I'm imagining that the current rothe breeds are not enough to cater for those being reared in Mulhorand because rothe are hairy and would likely die quite quickly in the heat and sun. Maybe a new type of rothe - the bald rothe, tall and thin and yellow in colour, perhaps as something special it can change colour or imitate sounds.

Still need alternate names for sheep, goats, and pigs.

There is the "korontaun", a shaggy-coated sheep whose mature males have four forward-pointing horns, native to the Giantspire, Icerime and Sunrise Mountains (also known as �mountain korrun�) referenced in Ed's 2009 thread (at p.25). Perhaps the southern, more 'summery' version is the "korrun"?

I'm sure Ed has names for pigs and goats, I'll ping him and find out.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 23 Nov 2018 : 07:16:00

Awesome, thankyou George, although I did note you have names for some of these in your lexicon, but I'm also looking for that extra distinguishing detail like the four forward facing horns.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 23 Nov 2018 : 12:30:49

So I'm combing through old empires now examining every paragraph for inspiration. The sword mountains (now called dragonsword mountains) are regarded as impassable but aren't (climbing these mountains is banned by law now), however in the skriaxit adventure hook it mentions hethab going to klondor to deal with it and klondor has the mountains between it and raurin where the skriaxit is. So I've added a trail into the mountains and klondor marks the site where Ra, enlil, and Anu first ascended these peaks and returned with many treasures but then banned all others from going up the mountain.

Also wondering where to put the tomb of Ra. It's never mentioned so I presume it is lost or hidden, and I'm tempted to put it high in the dragonsword mountains. Horuseres II tomb leads into the mountains and all other tombs are in the foothills of the mountains so maybe they made the extra effort and put his high in the mountains and in doing so discovered why he banned anyone from going up there.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 23 Nov 2018 : 21:03:38

So the River Rauthenflow merges with the River Murghol and then rushes to the Alamber Sea. The rainbow falls are spectular and the area is known to be a haven for mermaids.

So first thought is, where are these waterfalls. Does it mean the falls leading to the Alamber, or does it mean the falls where the two rivers merge.

Second thought. Mermaids? This is a freshwater river, but the nearest merman civilization is hundreds of miles away in Seros. Mermen are not likely to be able to swim into the Alamber Sea without being killed by merrow and sahuagin.

So are these really mermen? Were they once mermen and are now bad (the entire region around this river is filled with nasty monsters)? Are they something else entirely that are confused with mermen?

sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11690 Posts

Posted - 23 Nov 2018 : 21:25:21

For the River Rauthenflow, I'd recommend looking to our own world for some ideas. For instance, "The River of Five colors" down in Columbia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ca�o_Cristales
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=river+of+five+colors&qpvt=river+of+five+colors&FORM=IGRE

As to the mermaids... it could be mermaids. It might be interesting to make them lamia nobles instead with beautifully scaled lower bodies (with blue and/or green lower bodies). If they keep their lower bodies hidden in the water, it could be very believable that the bottom half is a fish tail I'm thinking. Especially if the falls is filled with colorful algae as shown above, they could pull this off. I could even see some of the lamia having even things like yellow, pink, and red lower halves, as long as the coloration wasn't decidedly "snake" like and looked much like water snakes instead of dry scales. They could also enhance the end of their tails to look like fish flukes with illusions.

If the surrounding land is "arid" and full of monsters, I also wouldn't be surprised if there weren't some standard lamia as well.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11690 Posts

Posted - 23 Nov 2018 : 21:46:32

On where to put the Tomb of Ra... I would be inclined to say in the Land of the Dead near Mishtan in the Great Vale. Granted this is where the pharaohs are laid to rest, but I wouldn't be surprised to a central pyramid to Ra under heavy guard by Osiris', Horus-Re's, and Nephthys' priests.

From OE, two snippets
The Great Vale begins in the shadow of the Sword Mountains, where the god-kings and their servants are buried in elaborate tombs on the vale floor and on the mountainside. Ancient step pyramids mix with obelisks as 3,000 years of the honored dead find housing to continue their existence in the afterlife.

Mishtan
One of a number of small towns in the Great Vale, Mishtan#146;s major claim to importance is that it is the gateway to the Land of the Dead, the burial grounds of the Pharaohs and their families. New constructions are constantly being built, and the tombs of the pharaohs for the next three generations have been planned; at flood time, the town teems with masons, artisans, and slaves.

Mishtan is ruled by the temple of Osiris, which oversees the Land of the Dead. It has a population of 2,000, but booms to over 30,000 at construction time; these temporary workers are housed in makeshift dwellings that surround the town.

BTW, if one wanted to put a bit of darkness to the pantheon... what if the bodies of the royal families are drained of blood and mummified (I think everyone's cool with that... not necessarily making mummies mind you, just preserving the bodies). However, what if this drained blood is then used in some ritual by the aforementioned three priesthoods in the temple of Ra. Maybe something that involves something that might seem "good" to some like infusing the blood with the light of the sun. Not sure where to take this exactly, unless this blood is then given to the manifestations of the gods to drink.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 23 Nov 2018 : 22:24:28

Ta for the pointers on the river, but I have tried so hard to move mulhorand away from real world derivatives I may have to find an alternate explanation.

I suppose Ras tomb in the land of the dead does make the most sense, it would be what started the trend of burying pharaohs in that place. I just need a way for it to be the grandest tomb there and the tomb of horuseres II made it difficult to accomplish that.

As for lamia noble mermaids, I'm trying to move away from using generic stock creatures. I want everything mentioned in lore to be unique. If it's worth mentioning in a book then it's worth giving it a unique origin, wandering monsters and random encounters are the place for generic stock creatures.
So are these mermaids a lost dukar order trapped when the subdued sahuagin rose up many centuries ago (this black dukar order could have swam up river and got trapped and were then twisted by the demons that were brought by eltab). Or they could be escaped demons from thays rebellion that fled into the river. They could be a remnant of the fey that once lived in the forest which covered mulhorand something in the ganathwood is making everything evil and nasty.
Plus lamia nobles are already used in Unther for ereshikigul so I don't want to duplicate monsters.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 24 Nov 2018 : 15:50:25

So randomly looking into the possibility of these mermaids in the Rauthenflow actually being mermen (and presumably from Seros).

The Alamber Sea is the haven of Sahuagin, but as an organized unit the Sahuagin kingdom of Aleaxtis did not exist until -810 DR.

The Sahuagin were prevented from accessing Seros by the Sharksbane Wall and the Pillars of the Trident. Hunter's Ridge is the ridge of mountains that span the entrance to the Alamber Sea and was so named for the sea elves and mermen that presumably used to hunt something (sahuagin) in the Alamber Sea.

So first question is what prompted the thus far disorganized sahuagin to form a kingdom in -810 DR? There is no mention of any other kingdom before that period so one can assume that they were just warring tribes and kind of explains their lack of effectiveness for the 14000 years they had been behind the Sharksbane Wall.

-800 DR there is a new order of Dukars formed (the purple Pamasi order) dedicated to harassing Aryselmalyr and embarrass the evil coronal.

Aleaxtis presumably starts conquering neighbouring tribes in an attempt to unite the entire Alamber Sea (eventually successful) but nothing further is mentioned about the sahuagin until -238 DR when the sahuagin are resurgent and Aryselmalyr has fallen (to the tsunami).

I'm wondering if the evils of Aryselmalyr caused the creation of several new orders of Dukar (I recall Steven Schend wanted to have many more orders - including a black order). What if one of those new orders - the black order - decided to use an ancient enemy (the sahuagin) against the new enemy (Aryselmalyr). They give a bunch of powerful items to the leader of one tribe of sahuagin and set about slaying a number of rival leaders in other tribes, helping unite the sahuagin into a single nation.

The sahuagin begin attacking Aryselmalyr in earnest, requiring extra forces stationed at the Sharksbane Wall.

-238 DR mentions sahuagin and confusion at the wall, Aryselmalyr has fallen so there is now nothing to stop the sahuagin.

3 DR. Aleaxtis wars with the Merrow and now controls more than 50% of the Alamber Sea. Could it be that at this point the black dukar are forced to flee into the Rauthenflow as their secret base is now destroyed (the sahuagin would still murder mermen even if they were helping them).

So it is possible that there could be some evil mermen in the Rauthenflow driven here from Seros long ago. They could be a lost and unknown order of dukars or they could be simple hunters on a raid into sahuagin territory that were driven up the river. Something about the Ganathwood makes everything evil and vicious so they could be affected by that, or it could be an influence from Eltab's presence in 922 DR and his scouring of the Thazalhar.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 27 Nov 2018 : 20:36:09

Been working hard consolidating and revising Mulhorand. The geography is mostly finished (need to add a fortress by the River of Dawn though), also been working on the Precepts, sorted out the major and minor precepts into a hierarchy so that the major precepts (which administer to a region) have governance over the minor precepts (which typically administer only to a settlement).

Working on the Church of Nephthys, I've decided on exaggerating the greedy, grasping, manipulative side of commerce that is mentioned in Powers and Pantheons. Nephthys will therefore be a manipulator and schemer who first sided with Set and Osiris during the civil war and then changed sides (abandoning Set, resurrecting Osiris and joining Horus) when she sensed the winds of fate change.

Her church collect the trade tariffs on all foreign trades that take place in Mulhorand. Her temples are situated in the port and foreign districts in each coastal city. The temples offer weights and purity measurements, as well as banking and monetary exchange services. It is whispered that for the rich and elite of society there are "other" services available for the right price.

I'm wondering about Neldorild. Establishing a new city is expensive, but I get that by doing so the Church of Nephthys can be in complete control of the services available, the types of people that live there. But can a city devoted entirely to the elite really be profitable?

Also the High Temple of Nephthys is daubed with dragon and gorgon blood and protected by two iron golems. Such protections are not mentioned anywhere else in the Old Empires. So I can figure out the why, the Church of Nephthys offers banking services so the Vault of Golden Commerce must be the place all this wealth and magic is stored.
But where did they get iron golems from (they knew how to make gemstone golems from but I don't like to have powerful magic freely available, I like it rare). And what benefit does Gorgon and Dragon's Blood provide, maybe there is an old Ecology of article in a dragon mag?

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6643 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2018 : 04:11:14

The effect of gorgon's blood is set out in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical. Have never read anything about the effects of dragon's blood as anything other than a spell/magic item component (and allegedly vitality/long life properties). Iron golems? Why, they are a holdover from the great rebellion against their Imaskari overlords. A bit like re-programming Arnie to be your own Terminator.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2018 : 07:44:33

Cheers George, I shall look up volos guide immediately. I completely forgot I made up golems gates of inupras for Gilgeams history. Now all I need to do is figure out what items are in the vault and what the vault was originally used for before the mulhorandi discovered it so I can put in a few hidden evils

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2018 : 18:30:23

So gorgons blood is used to block magical travel through a building, an excellent defence to put around a vault. Perhaps a dragon's blood provides resistance to transmutation (changing rock to mud is a way to get access through a building).

Now I like the gorgons blood idea, however, I don't like common place monsters (That's for random encounters). So I need an origin for this gorgon that makes it unique to the old empires region but close enough to a gorgon that no one would know the difference.

Given that iron golems were just mentioned, and the fact that gorgons are described as having metal scales, and that they have an odd breath weapon like an iron golems, perhaps they are not a magical creature at all but a golems like creation.

I'm thinking the imaskari tried to subsidise their golems with real creatures to make them breed true so they didn't have to keep creating them. So try and craft iron skin onto the bald rothe (with huge horns) that inhabits mulhorand (and formerly raurin), graft a few special organs into it (to give it a breath weapon - I don't think I will use a petrification breath weapon though) and make it unable to travel extra dimensionally so it can't accidentally blunder through a portal created by the imaskari.

Gorgons are completely insane, hence the heightened aggression and inability to domesticate. Their numbers are very low as they often attack each other (reducing breeding potential). Maybe as a quirk I will give them an unlimited growth potential providing they have enough food, but they have to shed their skin to increase in size (making a nice suit of armour), and during this shedding they are most vulnerable.

Just a thought or two for the dreaded southern gorgon. Just need a name now that is mulhorandi enough, means something to do with a cow and sounds dangerous.

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6643 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2018 : 22:41:17

Hirathur as in "stone bull" (hira: stone, thur: bull).

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11690 Posts

Posted - 29 Nov 2018 : 06:24:26

I LIKE that idea for the gorgons, especially the unlimited size growth thing. So many of the Untheric/Mulhorandi deities in real world have ties to bulls that there should be something special about unusual bulls in the area.

Oh, another not well documented use for gorgon's blood (or gorgon meat used in recipes). Small quantities, when added to beef stew or vegetable soup, can add real "zest" to the flavor. One must be careful though, as it has a tendency to cause constipation if overused. One poor starving fellow who slew a gorgon had to have break enchantment cast upon him whilst seated on a bedpan chair situated over a very deep bucket, which resulted in some very loud and explosive diar� nevermind, I digress.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 29 Nov 2018 : 08:00:38

Perfect name, cheers George. I'm not sure if im going to make the gorgon unique or not (give him regenerate and make him immortal, etc) then he could be the legendary stone bull of the southern pass who stomps unwary travellers into mush (which is why no one travels into raurin through that huge gap between the dragonsword and mountains in Durpar).

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 29 Nov 2018 : 21:08:28

Well unless there is a response from Ed I've decided to call the rothe in Mulhorand Wefarthe (shadow cows).

I've made them black or ash grey all over. Spiky, thick bristles run down the neck. Males have two large, sharp horns that point forward. They are slim and tall, capable of great speed but unable to bear a rider (breaks the back).

The Wefarthe roam the lands of Mulhorand, Unther, Murghom and Semphar, and they used to be common in Raurin but the desert has destroyed the large herds that used to migrate across that land.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 30 Nov 2018 : 12:48:47

So, I've seen a few hints at tomes of thoth and the book of the dead scattered throughout sources about Mulhorand.

I've been struggling to rationalize what they are and what they do. Then reading Scott Bennie's enhancement to the Old Empires sourcebook I found this

quote:
The most mysterious of
the works of Mulhorand is the sacred tome called the Book of the Dead, the text of all Mulhorandi
religions. The scholars and clergy of Mulhorand spend a lifetime pondering the secrets of this book, but a
handful of Thoth's worshippers obtain a special understanding of its mysteries. These understandings
give them power over the written word, and access to a number of sacred words only known to Thoth,
words of great divine power, words that represent the eight parts of the human soul.

It sounds an awful lot like if you read the book and you understand magic (Thoth being the god of magic and his followers being interested primarily in magic) then you acquire deeper insight into the mysteries of magic. I can think of another artifact that does such a thing; the Nether Scrolls.

The Imaskarcana are a transformed set of Nether Scrolls, we know of a crown (first), a scepter (fifth), a book (third), and I think I've read of a key (seventh). Now I was tempted to make the Book of the Dead the third Imaskarcana but then I remembered that book is sealed in a vault in Deep Imaskar. I could find no way to explain how the book might get from Deep Imaskar to Mulhorand. So I've decided that perhaps the Third Imaskarcana was damaged during the siege of Inupras, what if it was split in two. The first half detailed insights into the magic of life and the second half gave insights into the magic of death (necromancy). Its not an equal split mind you.

I didn't want to create another Imaskarcana because I figure the Imaskarcana were designed to be carried by one person to provide true enlightenment. If there is a scepter and a book then you cannot carry another book because both your hands are used. The crown goes on your head, the key at your belt (I created a mask for the face), I figure there is probably a cloak and then maybe some sandals.

So during the siege, the artificer carrying the book was slain and the book split in two (ripped apart by a spell or a dragon gone made perhaps, the nether scrolls can be pounded into nuggets and melted into coin but will always repair itself). Ilphemon finds the half that deals with death and unlife, while Thoth finds the half dealing with life and prolonging it and healing.

Thoth rather erroneously calls his tome the Book of the Dead because it holds secrets about how to restore life to the recently deceased (a secret only discovered after Ra's death - it takes Thoth a millennia to study the book until he is satisfied he has learned all its secrets).

I've also had a thought that the Imaskarcana are able to be replicated, creating lesser and more specialized copies (that's how the false imaskarcana came to exist). Thoth used this power to create the Tomes of Thoth, and from these tomes were created the holy texts of Thoth given to all priests to learn the rites and rituals of the church.

Just a thought for today. I'll probably change my mind later.

sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11690 Posts

Posted - 30 Nov 2018 : 19:14:34

Sticking on my 3.5 spectacles for a second, that description of the book of the dead from old empires just screams incarnum magic to me. Incarnum being "spirit/soul" magics wherein you bind the power of certain spirits to chakras of your body.

words of great divine power, words that represent the eight parts of the human soul.

Granted, there's more than 8 chakras in incarnum (looks like 10), but the old book may not have known how to open the last two. Throw in that the Sapphire Hierarchs (a divine / incarnate theurging prestige class) are near to mulhorand (i.e. just to the east of the council hills and Lake Azulduth) . Also Sapphire Hierarchs who were to say put 4 levels in incarnate and 10 in sapphire hierarch would have only 4 chakras to use, so the 8 would have to be a very dedicated incarnate.

From magic of incarnum
In the FORGOTTEN REALMS campaign setting, the Temple of the Sapphire Eidolon lies in the remote Uthangol Mountains, overlooking the dusty plains of the Shaar.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 30 Nov 2018 : 19:20:45

Never heard of these sapphire hierarchy before but then again I have never read magic of incarnum before. I will have to give it a quick glance and try and figure out what exactly they are.

I'm of the opinion that magic is just magic, there are many different ways to do the same thing and this incarnum stuff may be just one other way. If the nether scrolls provide insights into magic then there is no reason why it couldn't include this weird kind.

I need to look into the sapphire hierarchy immediately, have you got any other mulhorand and unther tidbits hidden in core books that I haven't read yet.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 30 Nov 2018 : 20:50:25

So I stumbled across the Bladeless Sword. A sword created by master smith Holin (Scott Bennie added it was made hundreds of years ago in his enhancement) that had no blade and could only attack ethereal creatures.

Seems like quite a specific use, I'm not aware of any ethereal creatures in Mulhorand other than the Hakeashar, so why would anyone make a sword like that. Making magic items is prohibitively expensive (especially in my alternate version) so one has to be commissioned or crafted with a specific purpose in mind.

Then I found the Fools Sword in Scott Bennie's enhancement and I decided to merge the two. Imagine a master smith working on a sword for years, only to unveil it and it has no blade and can inflict no wounds, people would think he had lost his mind.

So I'm adding Master Smith Holin into the timeframe of Thay's invasion of Mulhorand in 1098 DR. What if Thay tried to infiltrate Sultim with ethereal spies that could map out the place and open the gates for the invading army. What if Holin could see them and made this blade to kill them. When people see what he has made they mock him and he loses his position and becomes a mad pauper. But when the army of Thay attacks, it stands outside the gatehouse waiting for the gates to open. Holin is found dead in the gatehouse with the Bladeless Sword in his hand surrounded by dead Thayan infiltrators.

The Thayan army can't get in, they weren't prepared for a siege (expecting the gates to be opened for them). Then the Legion of Dawn returns to Sultim and attacks the Thayans in the rear while the defenders of Sultim sally forth.

The Bladeless Sword, otherwise known as Holin's Folly, Janifar inscribed onto the hilt (meaning Ghost Silver).

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 30 Nov 2018 : 21:09:54

The khopesh of truth from Scott Bennie's enhancement has undergone a slight change. A sword that burns the wielder if they lie seems rather useless as a magic item concept, why would anyone make something like that.

It said it was made 500 years ago which roughly lines up with the rebellion of Thay. So I figure a blade that burns when people lie is much better suited as an executioner's blade used as part of an interrogation. It also makes sense to me that the Church of Thoth would seek to assure the Pharaoh that all the magic users within it's ranks were loyal (after a huge number of wizards rebelled).

So what if the swords (now called Heramekal - Traitor's Bane) were made as part of an inquisition of the Church of Thoth's members. The blade placed upon the neck, questions were asked relating to one's loyalty to Mulhorand and Pharaoh, if the blade burned them their head was severed.
First the inquisition went through the ranks of acolytes (that includes all wizard members of the church), then it moved onto regular members of the church and even non clergy associates. Finally the priests of Osiris called an inquiry into the inquisition and ordered a halt to it, but not before 30% of the membership of the Church of Thoth had been executed.

Basically a magic item created to test loyalty, which was misused by the highly factional and political members of Mulhorand's churches. ooh and I can put it during the reign of Thoth's incarnations as Pharaoh (maybe 927 DR) so the Church of Osiris gets to stop a Pharaoh but it is not a Horus-Re Pharaoh.

Edited by - Gary Dallison on 30 Nov 2018 21:14:57

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2018 : 08:10:48

Sooo, randomly reading about the fangs of set.

Looks like Seti has been masquerading as a travelling merchant and has spent some time in sampranasz.

So I was wondering why sampranasz is the big centre of set's cult, at first I tried to come up with a historic link but in light of the information above I'm wondering if seti hasn't established the cult power in sampranasz only recently.

I figure seti owns a caravan company. The major trade commodity in sampranasz is read parchment. Seti has a major power base in raurin and allies in that, so I'm thinking he has become one of the few traders to move goods from mulhorand through raurin to Durpar (A problem route but a profitable one - at the moment Durpar traders have to go round veldorn). I'm betting he also sells stuff in thay through his cultist contacts there.

This makes him massively rich and allows him to buy up large portions of sampranasz and get cultist infiltrators into surrounding organisations and lands.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2018 : 21:05:00

So Hamsetis, former gladiator slave acquired by the Cult of Set, suddenly becomes trusted by the Vizier and other high level bureaucrats.
How does such a turn of events happen?

It seems fairly implausible, how can a slave or former slave suddenly become so valued by the government of Mulhorand just by being helpful.

I'm thinking that the Vizier is trying to replace the duties of the Church of Anhur, one of those duties is to guard the Pharaoh and the City of the Gods (I figure the Guardians of Skuld are actually the personal guards of the City of the Gods in Skuld).

Perhaps Hamsetis was first rescued by the Cult of Set and then he fought his way onto a Chessentan mercenary company (shouldn't be too hard for a highly skilled warrior). From there the mercenary company could be hired to guard the walls of the City of the Gods, and perhaps his impressive physique and skill gets him the attention of the Vizier (his preference for men or women was never mentioned that I'm aware of) who then makes Hamsetis one of his personal bodyguards in a direct snub to the Church of Anhur.

I'm trying to think how the Cult of Set killed Akonhorus. A charm spell is far too obvious and liable to be caught, so how about slaves dropping jewellery that make the wearer open to suggestion, and then a simple whispered instruction from Hamsetis and bam, one dead Pharaoh. It would be difficult to connect the jewellery to the slaves and the instruction to Hamsetis because it involves separate people with no connection to each other. Thus the priests of Osiris can only determine the jewellery had an enchantment charm spell cast upon them and so the Anhurite guards were not in control of their actions when they slew the Pharaoh.

Of course in my version the Pharaoh actually knows about Hamsetis affiliation with the Cult of Set and is allowing their plan to proceed because he wants the current Pharaoh to be removed in favour of a younger and hopefully more pliable Pharaoh.

Edited by - Gary Dallison on 03 Dec 2018 21:21:37

sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11690 Posts

Posted - 04 Dec 2018 : 13:42:57

quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Never heard of these sapphire hierarchy before but then again I have never read magic of incarnum before. I will have to give it a quick glance and try and figure out what exactly they are.

I'm of the opinion that magic is just magic, there are many different ways to do the same thing and this incarnum stuff may be just one other way. If the nether scrolls provide insights into magic then there is no reason why it couldn't include this weird kind.

I need to look into the sapphire hierarchy immediately, have you got any other mulhorand and unther tidbits hidden in core books that I haven't read yet.

The gist behind incarnum theory is that you bind spirits to you and those spirits give you certain abilities. Its somewhat similar to the idea behind binders in 3.5, but the playstyle is a little different. When you bind a spirit to a "chakra" of your body, you cannot use a magic item that would take the place of that spot (so for instance, you bind a "crown" chakra and you can't get the benefits of a magic helmet or circlet). You can also have some spirits that you get weaker abilities from, but that maybe you don't bind to a specific chakra. There were three different types, and actually of the three, I thought the totemist made the most sense. These three types were

Incarnate: you clung to a single specific alignment ideal (i.e. law/chaos/good/evil) and draw on spirit powers aligned to this ideal. You can wear medium armor, shields, and simple weapons. In essence, this becomes kind of like a priest who "wards" themselves for battle.

Soulborn: basically the militant version of the incarnate (i.e. compare paladin to cleric). Also, instead of being tied to a single alignment, they always cling to two components (i.e. LG, CG, LE, CE). Heavier armor and better weapons than the incarnate, but slower incarnum power gain.

Totemist: This one makes the most sense to me. Basically, the totemist can call upon the mystical powers of the spirits of the magical creatures of the world. He might bind the spirit of a displacer beast, a unicorn, and a basilisk into his chakras and gain abilities that are similar to what those creatures have. If I ever introduced this class (and I for one think this would be a great class for Abeir), I would have to sit down and look through a bunch of moster manuals. It might be interesting to have totemists from different cultures who have the same basic powers, but calling upon spirits that are native to their regions. For instance, one might call upon a basilisk spirit, another a cockatrice, and another a medusa all to get powers that might temporarily petrify.

NOTE: the binding of the spirits isn't like spellcasting if I recall correctly. For instance, you aren't whipping up a basilisk spirit in the middle of combat. You are planning which spirits you bind to in the morning while meditating, and you gain the benefits of the creature throughout the day. However, there were some mechanics where you could in the middle of things "draw on" a single spirit more, etc... i.e. maybe you suddenly feel you need the claws of X creature to be particularly effective, you can shift focus/points to it.

I should also note... I READ these rules, I've never played them. Conceptually though, for the totemist they were interesting to me. I actually pictured the totemists working very well as a sect amongst the Witches of Rashemen.

On the Sapphire Hierarchs prestige class in the Unthangol Mountains, the description says:

In the monster-haunted wasteland of the Sulhaut Mountains replace for realms Unthangol Mountains, an ancient temple of weathered gray stone crowns the barren, black rock of an icy mountaintop. Within this structure stands an incredible sphere of blue, crystallized incarnum that measures a full 30 feet in diameter. Illumined from depths that no being has ever plumbed, it has a life of its own and an intelligence almost alien in its purity. This sphere is the Sapphire Eidolon, an emblem of perfect universal law
that is said to be older than the cosmos. No being manifested this sphere�in fact, no being could manifest it�and yet it exists. According to legend, it fell to the ground from the stars and took up its position on the mountaintop under its own power.

The ancient temple that houses the Sapphire Eidolon is also home to an order of fervent priests of law whose ranks include clerics, incarnates, monks, and fighters. Known as sapphire hierarchs, the elite members of this order defend the temple, contemplate the mysteries of the Sapphire Eidolon, and seek to fulfill its single command by perfecting themselves and bringing order out of chaos wherever they find it. They are zealous crusaders against supernatural
chaos who battle with single-minded determination against such creatures as demons, slaadi, and the servants of chaotic deities.

PLAYING A SAPPHIRE HIERARCH
In the beginning, all was one. Sea and mountain, soul and body, deity and mortal�all these and more existed together in harmony. But in the unfolding of the universe from that one perfect moment, some of this divine unity was lost.

Because the cosmos began as one entity, natural law clearly demands a constant progression from a disordered state to a more orderly and perfect existence. Chaos, however, actively resists this great and inexorable reunification, and this interference does great harm to the universe. Your task as a sapphire hierarch, therefore, is to prevent the baleful influence of chaos from obstructing the natural progress of the universe.

So, in my viewpoint, this "Sapphire Eidolon" and the formation of the great rift make for some great interaction of "Meteors hit the Shaar... some made mountains... some collapsed the surface into caverns.... the continent cracked, and the landrise formed...." to all be related to some asteroid crashes in the shining south. I'd even include the Plangent Crystal/ Curna emeralds that you find down in Durpar which are tied to Pandorym to these same crystals. In this case, we have Pandorym being separated between "mind and body" according to Elder Evil by the Imaskari. The body is a giant sphere of annihilation (i.e. sounds like Entropy), and the mind is entrapped in these crystals. I would specify here that the Imaskari probably found these existing crystals and used the power in them to entrap the mind... thus, the crystals were probably pre-existing and not a creation OF Pandorym NOR the Imaskari. This also makes the crystals themselves not necessarily blatantly evil... they've just been tainted by the presence of Pandorym. If they could be purged of Pandorym's presence, they might be incredibly powerful sources of magic.

Also in all this, having a bunch of different powered "crystals" and or "metals" along with the recent ties of Grumbar to this region might (i.e. Grumbar is noted as restoring the Shaar), it might be that there is a "little documented fact" that Grumbar (Geb?) is strongest in faith down here in southeastern Faerun.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 04 Dec 2018 13:46:52

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