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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1112 Posts

Posted - 05 Aug 2017 :  05:08:29  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I still don't get why Sakkors was chosen over Nhalloth. Aside from the fact that Nhalloth was parked way close to the Simbul, it was in all other respects the better choice. It wasn't as deep, and it was relatively intact. Sakkors had fallen into deeper water and them tumbled downhill, rolling over and over, for a couple of miles.



Wasn't because Sakkors' mythallar was sentient? I remember having read that somewhere (maybe in the wiki).

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 05 Aug 2017 05:10:52
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31518 Posts

Posted - 05 Aug 2017 :  13:28:23  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I thought that was something they discovered after the fact... I really don't see how that would be a bonus for them, anyway.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 05 Aug 2017 :  16:47:51  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A LOT of artifact-level magical devices gain sentience after a time. What I find weird is that Thultanthar never did. Maybe it had something to do with the fact they rewired it to use the Shadoweave instead? I guess you wouldn't want any sentience that would 'grow' out of that.

Or what if it did... that has possibilities... maybe some 'shadow god' was born from that? Still, it would be strange that it didn't maintain a connection to the device that created it.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7433 Posts

Posted - 06 Aug 2017 :  06:27:19  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

So, if the Halruaans did indeed survive because they went to Abeir (where is that from, BTW? I don't really like it, just because of this line of reasoning)


Is from the SCAG, that is a can of worms on its own right. They guy who wrote that book, while it seems knowledgeable in Realmslore from the pre-4e eras, totally disregarded 4e lore; and for what it seems, is because he didn't knew about it instead of "grognardism"* (the first thing to comes to my mind is that they used the Nentir Vale creation myths for the dragonborn... and FR dragonborn had a different origin story than those of the Nentir Vale)**.

So, while he said that Halruaan wizards survived in Abeir, I really doubt the guy who wrote the SCAG was even aware that in Abeir, magic worked differently.

I guess that we need to figure out how those Halruaan wizards thrived on our own.



*Though, I'm pretty sure WotC allowed this to lure grognards away from Path--I mean, the competition.

**I know this because I asked Erin why Abeiran dragonborn had the same origin myths than Arkhosian dragonborn in the SCAG, and she was as confused as me...



This concept works for me... means that a lot of the concepts I'm proposing probably worked in Abeir. If dweomerheart went to Abeir, and the red wizards and the Halruaans and the Nimbraii followed.... well, that's the three of the most fervent nations of spellcasters that also correspond to ones that are also devoted to the 3 major sub gods of magic (Savras, Leira, and Velsharoon).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 06 Aug 2017 06:33:26
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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1112 Posts

Posted - 09 Aug 2017 :  01:52:38  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm still reading the timeline of the Old Empires. And I found this:

Seeking to combat the Pharaoh of Mulhorand and the rising influence of Bane in Unther, High Priest Zimrilim uses the Alabaster Staff to animate the preserved corpse of the God-King Gilgeam.

Is from the Grand History, in 1373's entry.

Anyone knows what happened with that zombie-Gilgeam? Or this plot was killed by the Spellplague?

This plot cannot have been killed by the Spellplague, though, as the Grand History entry for 1379 says that Mulhorand conquered Unther. And some products, such as Dragons of Faerûn, covered until 1374.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 09 Aug 2017 02:00:36
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe

909 Posts

Posted - 09 Aug 2017 :  03:59:14  Show Profile Send Aldrick a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

I'm still reading the timeline of the Old Empires. And I found this:

Seeking to combat the Pharaoh of Mulhorand and the rising influence of Bane in Unther, High Priest Zimrilim uses the Alabaster Staff to animate the preserved corpse of the God-King Gilgeam.

Is from the Grand History, in 1373's entry.

Anyone knows what happened with that zombie-Gilgeam? Or this plot was killed by the Spellplague?

This plot cannot have been killed by the Spellplague, though, as the Grand History entry for 1379 says that Mulhorand conquered Unther. And some products, such as Dragons of Faerûn, covered until 1374.




That's a really good find! Honestly, I had not heard of this before, so I did some searching.

I am 99.9% certain that this is an event touched upon in this novel: http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/The_Alabaster_Staff

It takes place in the Old Empires, it deals with a necromancer's staff called the Alabaster Staff, and it concludes in 1373 DR.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 09 Aug 2017 :  04:14:06  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Could that have been the Gilgeam that was in Abeir?

After all, the GHotR was the 'intro' to the Spellplague, so any end-of-3e plots may have been directed toward that.

Began work on a 4e map of Faerûn today - I think it will work out nicely (well, as nice as having to do a destroyed version of FR from a now-defunct edition can be). Its just going to be an adaption of the big map I've been working on, so nothing special. The goal is to get it done so i can move onto a 5e map of the Old Empires - something in-between the 1e/2e maps and the 4 maps (the hard part is backwards engineering the 4e changes - to the 3e map - into the old/new terrain layout).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 09 Aug 2017 04:17:27
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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1112 Posts

Posted - 09 Aug 2017 :  04:42:00  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks... Now I have to get that novel to properly end my timeline of the Old Empires... I hate my completionist compulsion.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7433 Posts

Posted - 09 Aug 2017 :  13:27:26  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

I'm still reading the timeline of the Old Empires. And I found this:

Seeking to combat the Pharaoh of Mulhorand and the rising influence of Bane in Unther, High Priest Zimrilim uses the Alabaster Staff to animate the preserved corpse of the God-King Gilgeam.

Is from the Grand History, in 1373's entry.

Anyone knows what happened with that zombie-Gilgeam? Or this plot was killed by the Spellplague?

This plot cannot have been killed by the Spellplague, though, as the Grand History entry for 1379 says that Mulhorand conquered Unther. And some products, such as Dragons of Faerûn, covered until 1374.



Yes, that is from the alabaster staff novel. In theory, he was destroyed. The short version... stabbed with the alabaster staff... it got lodged in him, then in theory snapped... big explosion... no sign of him left.

Oh, and I say, in theory, because something snapped. We're led to believe it was the alabaster staff, but it could have been a rib. There was a flash and the world went white, so we assume explosion. Could just as easily have been the opening of a portal between dimensions... for instance the plane of radiance, the positive material plane... it could have been the "steelsky" shining through, etc...


Here's a link that seems to have portions of that novel available to read. Guess its for previewing books like the google books stuff.

http://www.rulit.me/books/the-alabaster-staff-read-68317-63.html


Here's a snippet from that (the tab for 65)

A small shadow darted past her with the sound of fluttering parchment. Tremor swept in on its tiny wings and fired a gout of bright flame across Gilgeam's eyes just as he was flexing his arms to kill Demok. Gilgeam roared again, stumbling with surprise, yielding to Kehrsyn the extra sliver of time she needed.

She ran up behind the god-king as he stared down at Demok. She plunged the Alabaster Staff into Gilgeam, narrow end first, driving it upward between the ribs, aiming for the heart. It slid in much more easily than she had expected, every bit as easily as if it had been her rapier and he no more than a straw man. She had put everything she had into the blow, and it plunged the staff almost entirely into Gilgeam's body, leaving only the carved top still in her grip.

The undead thing roared and arched his back. Kehrsyn, in fear and surprise, tried to pull the wand back out, but between her haste and his motion, the wand caught between his ribs. She panicked, yanked, and felt the wand bend, levered against Gilgeam's bones.
There was the sound of a small crack.

There was a flash so bright the whole world seemed white.

Then there was nothing.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 09 Aug 2017 13:32:23
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 09 Aug 2017 :  13:52:39  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would say the 'two Gilgeams' had nothing to do with each other, except for the timeframe - because the 'undead' version arose before the Spellplague struck, its fairly easy for us to speculate it ended up in Abeir.

And what is really the difference between an 'undead' god, and a god? If a god is an ascended mortal, than its mortal life 'ended', and now its a god. That means any ascended deity (and I would hazard to guess that would be most of them by this point) is technically 'undead', since its the spirit of a being who is no longer a 'living being in the Prime Material Plane'. Their mortal life came to a close. And since gods can create avatars, and avatars can look any way they want, SERIOUSLY, the whole concept of 'undead gods' is rather silly.

So for the 5e version (and maybe the CandleKanon), I would just leave it ambiguous, and say he has a sunken, sallow appearance.

So I'm fiddling with the Hordlands/Taan part of the map, and I noticed something - Brightstar Lake not only changed shape (for no apparent reason I can tell), but it also got BIGGER. If everything is draining into the Underchasm, and sea levels got LOWER. why is that lake larger? It appears it now encompass the old river-system of Semphar (which is a damn shame, because it was one of the few realistic river-systems we had). Of course, I get to 'fix' it again (This makes my Kara-Turran canal to Brightstar Lake so much easier!)

Is there any info on Semphar in 4e/5e, aside from, "Here there be Dragons!"?
Oh, and I hadn't put this together before - I just noticed that the mountain range that separates The Old Empires from Murghôm and Semphar is called the Dragonsword mountains, and always has been. And we also have a bunch of history pertaining to 'high dragon activity' in that region. Was there a dragon-kingdom there in primordial times? Did the Imaskari ride dragons? That would be neat - we could put a bit of a Krynnish spin on ancient Imaskar (The Knights of Semphar vs The Knights of Murghôm?)

EDIT:
Ooh! And I just realized, thats what the whole Hordleands trilogy of adventures revolved around - Ambuchar Devyam (Tan Chin) had wanted Gaumahavi's kid (Sandiraksiva)and was trying to use it as his steed!

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 09 Aug 2017 16:26:52
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1310 Posts

Posted - 09 Aug 2017 :  20:11:41  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Maybe Gilgeams soul was trapped in a part of the Alabaster Staff remains and the New Gilgeam drew that soul out and into himself in Abier to become the new Gilgeam.
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7433 Posts

Posted - 09 Aug 2017 :  20:58:18  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I would say the 'two Gilgeams' had nothing to do with each other, except for the timeframe - because the 'undead' version arose before the Spellplague struck, its fairly easy for us to speculate it ended up in Abeir.

And what is really the difference between an 'undead' god, and a god? If a god is an ascended mortal, than its mortal life 'ended', and now its a god. That means any ascended deity (and I would hazard to guess that would be most of them by this point) is technically 'undead', since its the spirit of a being who is no longer a 'living being in the Prime Material Plane'. Their mortal life came to a close. And since gods can create avatars, and avatars can look any way they want, SERIOUSLY, the whole concept of 'undead gods' is rather silly.




I said the same thing during 2e with the whole Orcus / Tenebrous / Orcus thing. Only thing I can figure is that the "god" is being fueled by the negative material plane rather than faith energy or somesuch.... which sounds kind of goofy. Or maybe since Tenebrous is a vestige, what if the "undeath" is actually some other entity inhabiting the godflesh. Of course, if that were the case, why would Tenebrous have been so hard set to have Orcus come back to life.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1112 Posts

Posted - 09 Aug 2017 :  22:00:01  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I guess, this explains (at least, in canon) how Gilgeam's essence ended up in Abeir to be "revived" by the Untherites there.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Is there any info on Semphar in 4e/5e, aside from, "Here there be Dragons!"?


Nope. While Murghôm had two pages in the FRCG, and featured (albeit shortly) in the Brotherhood of the Griffon novels, Semphar only has that line about "dragons conquered here, too".

I guess, Semphar is a white canvas, waiting to be developed, if you want to.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 09 Aug 2017 :  22:00:32  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, considering its mostly water now, I'm thinking the 'wet' kind took over there. Black, probably some green, dragon-turtles, etc. Maybe the 'dry' ones are mostly in Murghôm (Brown, red, and probably blue). So maybe not so much the usual 'good vs evil' thing, but more based around terrain types.

quote:
Originally posted by Gyor

Maybe Gilgeams soul was trapped in a part of the Alabaster Staff remains and the New Gilgeam drew that soul out and into himself in Abier to become the new Gilgeam.
Well, since the original Mulan gods all created Manifestations (avatars they 'glued' to a mortal), that makes a lot of sense with the confines of established lore. That just means the Alabaster Staff wound-up in Abeir, which is fine.

I never really cared for any of that from the Old Empires (those 'living gods'), but it is what it is.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 09 Aug 2017 22:06:29
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 11 Aug 2017 :  00:14:34  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I was hoping to have a WIP of the 4e version of the map, but my power went out last night and I lost about two hrs worth of work. The whole Underchassm, among other things. {sigh}

Been avoiding redoing it all day...

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7433 Posts

Posted - 11 Aug 2017 :  00:43:28  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Well, considering its mostly water now, I'm thinking the 'wet' kind took over there. Black, probably some green, dragon-turtles, etc. Maybe the 'dry' ones are mostly in Murghôm (Brown, red, and probably blue). So maybe not so much the usual 'good vs evil' thing, but more based around terrain types.

quote:
Originally posted by Gyor

Maybe Gilgeams soul was trapped in a part of the Alabaster Staff remains and the New Gilgeam drew that soul out and into himself in Abier to become the new Gilgeam.
Well, since the original Mulan gods all created Manifestations (avatars they 'glued' to a mortal), that makes a lot of sense with the confines of established lore. That just means the Alabaster Staff wound-up in Abeir, which is fine.

I never really cared for any of that from the Old Empires (those 'living gods'), but it is what it is.



I can say, the living gods was one of the things I actually did like. I didn't like Gilgeam himself per se (though he made an interesting villain concept). I did like the idea of the ones in Mulhorand though, and the fact that they had incarnations, and that sometimes those incarnations got killed. It made for an interesting idea that they could literally go visit their deity and see what they thought... but don't piss them off by bothering them too much.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1112 Posts

Posted - 11 Aug 2017 :  01:14:10  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Well, considering its mostly water now, I'm thinking the 'wet' kind took over there. Black, probably some green, dragon-turtles, etc. Maybe the 'dry' ones are mostly in Murghôm (Brown, red, and probably blue). So maybe not so much the usual 'good vs evil' thing, but more based around terrain types.


Murghôm currently is like Eberron, really. Chromatics, metallics, gems... all living in harmony, everyone of them (even chromatics) more benevolent than evil toward their humanoid subjects.

In canon we have a gold (Chelnadatilar) coexisting with a blue (Skalnaedyr), a black (Ferzath), and many gem ones. So, yeah... weird.

Or, here's my take on: the Murghômi dragons, except from Skalnaedyr (who is an anomaly in the eyes of Tiamat: the guy is actually good... or at least, neutral leaning to good) are the youngings from the mini-Tearfall of 1374 DR. Maybe they were raised differently, now that there is no Rage of Dragons anymore...

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

quote:
Originally posted by Gyor

Maybe Gilgeams soul was trapped in a part of the Alabaster Staff remains and the New Gilgeam drew that soul out and into himself in Abier to become the new Gilgeam.


Well, since the original Mulan gods all created Manifestations (avatars they 'glued' to a mortal), that makes a lot of sense with the confines of established lore. That just means the Alabaster Staff wound-up in Abeir, which is fine.

I never really cared for any of that from the Old Empires (those 'living gods'), but it is what it is.


Yeah, I also believe this is the best explanation on how Gilgeam ended up reincarnating in Abeir.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 11 Aug 2017 01:19:09
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 11 Aug 2017 :  03:56:02  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Every time I try to make things 'more interesting', you keep telling me why we can't.

"Its a land where everyone gets along just fine". I might as well going adventuring at my grandma's house...

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1112 Posts

Posted - 11 Aug 2017 :  04:42:34  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sorry, I just point up canon stuff. But I'm not denying your ideas. Benevolent dragon is not the same as benevolent human (or dwarf, el, whatevs). And the dragons of Eberron don't care if they kill humanoids for the "greater good".

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 11 Aug 2017 04:50:14
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 11 Aug 2017 :  05:20:28  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
LOL - just in a foul mood. No matter which way I turn (lore-wise), some edition says it can't be that way. It comes to a point where we are going to need to 'sand-down' those corners, to get some square pegs to fit in round holes.

With Semphar and Murghôm I was trying to create an interesting dynamic - FR is known for its 'wheels within wheels' Machiavellian power-groups. Nothing is ever 'just as it seems'. I was trying to bring a little of that old-school (FR) flavor into some of the newer lore (like, "what people think is going on there might not really be whats going on there"). There used to be entries like that in the 1e books: 'Who Rules', and 'Who Really Rules' - that sort of thing.

Plus, those two countries have a history of hating/fighting each other, even when they are part of the SAME larger empire (Mulhorand, Shou Lung).

quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

To my knowledge Mourktar was never mentioned in 4e. It wasn't on any maps. The area it occupied is shown as water (just like Messemprar to its south. Its almost like Threskel and northern Unther "disappeared"..... hmmmmm, spellplague? Transferred to Abeir even if just in portions?


The original sketch map I designed for the 4E Chessenta article originally covered a much wider area (covering the same square miles as Vaasa and Cormyr maps that proceeded it). In the expanded map (linked here), you see that Mourktar and Messemprar were indeed submerged beneath the Alamber Sea.

Sadly, there was no traffic cop coordinating content between the designers and novel department, so RLB was unaware this map existed when penning his novels set in the region.

And just for fun, here is a pic of the sketch map I started working on for Tymanther.

Thank you again for posting this. for the new (old) 4e map I am working on, I was just using the Chessenta map. Then last night I lost power and lost a bunch of work I did. You know how they say everything happens for a reason?

So today I was trying to get it all to work again, and it wasn't working out (which is weird, because I thought I got it to work last night), and part of the problem is the piece-meal way I had to glue-in strips of the 4e map to reconstruct it onto the 1e/2e terrain layout. And the Chessenta one I REALLY had to fudge (I cut it down the middle, and then sized each half differently). Today, I went back to my old method of rotating 3e maps 9.2º (it works pretty damn good, if you do one small region at a time), and I used YOUR MAP (above), and it all worked out much better. I can't wait for you to see it... even though it will be an entire edition out-of-date.

I had to make some sweeping changes elsewhere to the 4e layout, because some stuff just won't work on the 1e/2e/5e terrain. And loosing an entire mountain range 'underwater' in Luiren was just plain silly . I tried to go for the same feel, but its the one part I'm really not happy with - I'll probably tweak the crap out of it once I transfer the new coasts to the big map (everything else I really like, especially how the Chultan 'arm' came out).

And I left even less of Halruaa then they did... go figure.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 11 Aug 2017 05:23:43
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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1112 Posts

Posted - 11 Aug 2017 :  07:41:44  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I want to see that map, though I will wait patiently.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

LOL - just in a foul mood. No matter which way I turn (lore-wise), some edition says it can't be that way.


Yeah, the retcons changed stuff to almost irritating levels. Something that it sad, because we are supposed to enjoy the Realms.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1112 Posts

Posted - 11 Aug 2017 :  15:58:44  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Very well, I've finished my timeline of the Old Empires. This is only canon stuff, including stuff from novels I've read.

There is a period of 11 years between 1489 (the last canon date were something noteworthy happened in the area) and 1500 (starting Ckanon date). While maybe we have to move the balance of the war to favor one side or the other, there is no hurry to end the war yet. RL history has longer wars than a 11-year war (so, expanding the war without a clear winner in 1500 its something realistically plausible).

Dunno if we would use this topic to decide the future of the Old Empires, or open a new one, or wait for the Ckanon policies/Markustay's map before deciding something.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 11 Aug 2017 16:02:19
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 11 Aug 2017 :  16:23:15  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I should have a WIP up later of the '4e era' map of the Old Empires (and quite a bit 'beyond').

I would wait until I have the final, 5e version done (hybrid of the 1e/2e layout with the 4e map I am working on now). Because of how things moved around between editions (especially the 1e/2e/5e terrain, and the 3e/4e layout), I was able to 'save' quite a bit more than was thought. Once that is done, then we (the CandleKanon) can decide what was 'miraculously saved', was a ruin/abandoned but has been reoccupied, what is a 'partial ruin' (half-sunk in the water, but some of it was salvageable), and what is an actual, complete 'ruin' (and there we still have several choices - underwater, mostly underwater, partially underwater, no water, and also 'occupied' {dungeon} or 'unoccupied').

I made sure to get as much as I could 'on land', because I don't really care for the 'completely underwater' choice. While it may sound like an interesting locale, no-one is ever going to adventure there (Underwater romps are just too problematic). However, that doesn't mean some sunken city can't be occupied by sahuagin or something else, and are now threatening 'New Such-&-such' on the coast nearby (so the adventure would be in the new, above-water area, and the underwater location would only be peripheral to the scenario).

A century is a LONG time, and a lot can happen. The United States went from a backwater colony to the world's leading 'industrial powerhouse' in just over a century. And we really don't have an 'in-between' era map (between 3rd edition and 4e) - the map that was done was 'as of 4th edition', and all that damage to the coast would have happened 'over time' (thus, I am picturing several cities building docks a few miles from the city proper once the water started to recede). In the case of places with much magic/organization - like Cormyr - it may have even been possible to have canals dug to the ever-receding coastlines (a bit of 'magical fudgery' there to explain-away how some cities remained 'on the coast', even though the coast itself moved).

Which brings me to another point - something we WILL have to deal with. Some cities DID receive the logical treatment and wound-up way inland, like Alaghôn in Turmish. What happened there? People just wait around for a century and then, "Look! The waters back!"? More likely, new settlements would have been built on the new coast... what happened to those? Did Ao just wipe-out all the people living along those new coasts, or did he do something more 'miraculous'? (Ya know, like 'push' them inland so the new settlements were on the new coast, rather than just murder them all.)

And I just realized, referencing that ugly map, that Ilighôn became part of the mainland! That actually could explain why the Emerald Enclave became so much more active on a 'Faerûn-wide scale' in 4e/5e! I don't know how I never noticed that before (yes I do... I looked at that map as little as possible LOL).

EDIT:
And I just realized, on Mike Schley's high-res map of the Sword Coast* (which is really almost the entirety of 'The Heartlands'), it shows most of Turmish, and even part of the Vilhon reach, and it looks PRISTINE - like nothing ever happened. Hmmmm... I can't see most of the coast, so we don't know what happened to those three islands (Ilighôn, Ixinos, and Wavecrest) - do we have anything 'official'? I would have thought there'd be some residual damage, but it doesn't look it. No wonder he/they stopped where they did - going any further would have forced them to answer questions.


*I paid for that map, and now WotC has it up on their site for FREE - grab it while you can. I love Mike's work, so I don't mind having supported him (it was $10).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 11 Aug 2017 16:51:36
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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 11 Aug 2017 :  17:16:37  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm pretty sure the WotC copy is a smaller resolution than the paid copy.

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Zeromaru X
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Posted - 11 Aug 2017 :  17:20:31  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That is a really gigantic map...

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Which brings me to another point - something we WILL have to deal with. Some cities DID receive the logical treatment and wound-up way inland, like Alaghôn in Turmish. What happened there? People just wait around for a century and then, "Look! The waters back!"? More likely, new settlements would have been built on the new coast... what happened to those? Did Ao just wipe-out all the people living along those new coasts, or did he do something more 'miraculous'? (Ya know, like 'push' them inland so the new settlements were on the new coast, rather than just murder them all.)


Nothing its said about it in canon, but its implied Ao just killed those poor souls who lived near/in the 4e coastline.

[
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Hmmmm... I can't see most of the coast, so we don't know what happened to those three islands (Ilighôn, Ixinos, and Wavecrest) - do we have anything 'official'?


Nothing. Not even in 4e.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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