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 Greek Influence on the Old Empires
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1155 Posts

Posted - 13 Jul 2017 :  19:51:59  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
It's dawned on me that the Milan possibly absorbed a Greek minority back in the days of Imaskar.

Why do I say that?

Because 1. The Mulhorandi use Greek names for some of their Gods like Osiris.

2. The Mulhorandi plane was called Heilopolis, a very greek sounding name.

3. It would explain why Chessenta seems to resemble Ancient Greece some what (some of that might be Chondathan influences).

sfdragon
Great Reader

2027 Posts

Posted - 14 Jul 2017 :  03:52:00  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
jsut so you know. HAdes called, he is not very happy . Athena also called she advised me not to post this .....

Osiris is NOT greek. he is Egyptian,

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234

Edited by - sfdragon on 14 Jul 2017 03:52:43
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BadCatMan
Learned Scribe

Australia
233 Posts

Posted - 14 Jul 2017 :  04:56:49  Show Profile Send BadCatMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"Osiris" is the Latin transliteration of the Greek version of the name of the Egyptian god, which no one is sure how to pronounce. It's the same for all the Egyptian gods.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osiris#Etymology_of_the_name
We should probably assume the names of the Mulhorandi gods are translated for our benefit, just as Chondathan isn't English, since the true Mulhorandi and Egyptian names are unknown, as well as to be more familiar. Old Empires and Powers & Pantheons offer alternate names for them, e.g., Osriant in Thay and Ozrikotep in Unther, which would be due to translation and transliteration issues. The Mulhorandi name might be something like "Osri".

Heliopolis is also the Greek name of an Egyptian city. It could be another translation matter.

In any case, Powers & Pantheons page 2 confirms a people from "a patchwork of city-states and bold philosophies" migrated to the Realms. These are most likely ancient Greeks (or Achaeans, Hellenes, Ionians, or Dorians). It also has people from a "land of glory and empire" with similar gods, which is most likely the Roman empire.
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Earth
It's not clear how they relate to Imaskar though, since only Unther and Mulhorand have a history of Imaskari slavery, even how they got to the Realms. In any case, the Greeks and Romans probably mingled with the Mulan and Turami and formed the basis for Chessenta, and brought gods like Poseidon and Dionysus.

BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki and Candlekeep Wiki
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14038 Posts

Posted - 14 Jul 2017 :  05:29:11  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm thinking perhaps proto-Greeks, like the Minoans, rather than the 'Classical' (Mycenaean) culture we usually think of.

Any cultural similarities between the Old Empires and Classical Greece (and even Rome) are probably due to having progenitors of the same ethnic stock. These would also be the theoretical group I've dubbed (in many posts around here) as the 'Dathites'. I think Imaskar was scooping-up whole groups of people even before the Ancient Greeks (but the more ancient Sumerians and First kingdom Egyptians would work-out about right). Of course, nothing says they weren't traveling through time as well as space (and now I got this weird picture in my head of Hilather (Halaster) in a Police Call Box.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 14 Jul 2017 05:30:08
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AuldDragon
Learned Scribe

USA
241 Posts

Posted - 14 Jul 2017 :  06:13:10  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I'm thinking perhaps proto-Greeks, like the Minoans, rather than the 'Classical' (Mycenaean) culture we usually think of.


Just to be clear, the Minoans weren't proto-Greeks, they were pre-Greeks; unrelated ethnically and culturally, but influenced the later Greeks. The Mycenaen period immediately followed the Minoan period, but that was about a thousand years before Classical Greece (~16th century BC rather than ~5th century BC). There are pretty substantial cultural differences between them. :)

Jeff

My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
Let's Play Old Games: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6298 Posts

Posted - 14 Jul 2017 :  08:55:18  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
D&D is not meant to be an accurate historical simulation. It's a game. Built all around a pastiche of trope soups.

Pre-Greek Minoans and Proto-Greek Mycenaens may not have worshipped an Osiris, but the Mulhorandi certainly did.

[/Ayrik]
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5841 Posts

Posted - 14 Jul 2017 :  14:05:18  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm thinking let's please not try to turn them into Greeks. Let's just have them be city states. City states that happen to be around an inland sea, and have had the influence of numerous conflicts and conquerors, such that they highly prize skills in war and honor. Though they may share some similarities, let us not compound them by having it be the actual Greeks. They don't actually have any Greek gods, though they do value gods who appear similar (such as Lathander... but I can just as easily say Lathander somewhat resembles Frey or a number of other sun gods), but they also value other gods who are very much "Babylonian/Sumerian" such as Ramman, Enlil, Ishtar, as well as Egyptian/Mulhorandi such as Anhur, and Faerunian such as Tempus and the Red Knight, etc... .

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe

509 Posts

Posted - 14 Jul 2017 :  20:49:44  Show Profile Send Mirtek a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Tyche may have brought over greek customs when she secretly tried to expand to the realms to escape Zeus smothering rule of his pantheon
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1155 Posts

Posted - 14 Jul 2017 :  20:50:01  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Actually Greek dieties and Titans had temples in the Bakkar Empire, a survivor state of Imaskar that also worshipped the Mulhorand Pantheon.

So we know that the Bakkar and likely Imaskar were in contact with the Greeks.
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1155 Posts

Posted - 14 Jul 2017 :  20:57:07  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
BTW the Greeks I'm referring when it comes to mixing with the Mulan would be Greco-Egyptians, the Greek minority of ancient times in Egypt.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeks_in_Egypt
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