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Varl
Learned Scribe

USA
250 Posts

Posted - 09 Jul 2017 :  16:20:42  Show Profile Send Varl a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal


Also what if you get two widely differing but equally brilliant submissions for the same region/npc/artefact. How would it be decided which one to use.



You'd use the one you want to use. Why should [subject] be limited to one? I've always been a fan of gamer-created material, regardless of edition, that is generic enough to be used in any Realms game. The mechanics of a system are secondary to me to knowing more about an obscure item, person, creature or locale in the Realms that I'm free to accept or reject. I can do any required conversions.

The fact that someone created a work and put it out there is what's important. I'd be more concerned that not enough people would create material to make it a worthwhile and viable source for alternative Realms lore. I also would wonder why they would bother to send it to this new wiki vs. contacting someone here about adding it to this site or DM's Guild.

I don't know how stringent the requirements for new material acceptance is for here. I do think this site could work just as well as a new wiki, so long as conformance and acceptance restraints on new material weren't inhibiting. That's not to say they are inhibiting here; I have no idea if it is or isn't.

"We're not out of here in 10 minutes, we won't need no rockets to fly through space." -Parker, Alien.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13601 Posts

Posted - 09 Jul 2017 :  17:18:48  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And therein lies the rub. That's the problem I have with it - I would want internal consistency, not the same kind of gibberish I get when I try to look something up in a comic Wiki ("Well, it happened this way of Earth657, but on Earth 42 it happened this way, and on Earth172,936 she was actually a transgender woman from Alpha Centauri, and...").

Its why I stopped reading comics. Part of the fun was knowing the canon, and they took all that canon and ran it three a woodchipper.

Anyhow, so my last post as to a 'solution' to that problem; using Woolys term 'Candlekanon', that could be the name of the 'Official Fanon' of Candlekeep. It would have to bear a special seal/logo for that. Then, and alternates that revolved around the same person, places, or things would be non-fanon 'homebrew', which can get included, but not get the 'official seal of approval'.

And I could easily whip-up such a thing (I'm sure most here could - it wouldn't have to be anything too crazy). Does Candlekeep (I mean THE Candlekeep - in game) even have an insignia/heraldry? I'm thinking just a shield maybe with three quadrants - a fortress (keep), a candle, and a tome.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 09 Jul 2017 21:57:18
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Adhriva
Learned Scribe

USA
112 Posts

Posted - 09 Jul 2017 :  17:37:37  Show Profile  Visit Adhriva's Homepage  Send Adhriva an AOL message  Send Adhriva a Yahoo! Message Send Adhriva a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

It would have to bear a special seal/logo for that.



Like the sigil for the Heralds organization?

Professional illustrator and comic book artist.
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe

823 Posts

Posted - 09 Jul 2017 :  17:41:19  Show Profile Send Aldrick a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Does Candlekeep (I mean THE Candlekeep - in game) even have an insignia/heraldry? I'm thinking just a shield maybe with three quadrants - a fortress (keep), a candle, and a tome.


Here is the heraldry of Candlekeep according to Ed:

quote:
And Ed just surprised me with another e-mail!

MalariaMoon, here's more about Candlekeep's heraldry (Sage? Wooly? you might want to tell Alaundo about this, too...)

Here's Ed:

Over the years, Candlekeep has used two badges at various times (falling out of favor and being revived, overlapping each other, several times):

• a vertical flat-white-hued human right hand, fingers towards the viewer, clutching a rolled-up, horizontal white scroll, the scroll being outlined all around with blue (what we in the real world sometimes call "electric blue")

• two flat-white long fingered human or elven left hands, the uppermost at top left and the lower one at bottom right, passing a book (in the center) between them. The book is rectangular, dun brown, and oriented with top at upper right, open side down the lower right side, and bottom at lower left. It is plain (no title or illustration on its covers)

Candlekeep also has a formal coat-of-arms, consisting of:

An midnight blue (darker than royal blue, but with a lighter blue "edge" as if moonlight is lighting it "from behind," all around) shield. The shield has straight sides and top, a symmetrical center-point curved bottom, and is "taller" (longer, vertically) than the normal heraldic shield dimensions. It has a border of cream-hued books, all around, each one unique in dimensions and appearance, none bearing titles or visible writing, and each one touching the next.

On the shield is a motto (yes, ON the shield, winding across it just above the bottom point, not wrapped around the shield or beneath/below it) on a scarlet ribbon, that reads: "Write and share the written, and so cheat time."

Above this is a large, unfurled scroll, cream-hued and blank, and crossed atop it are a quill pen (point at lower left, feather-plume at upper right, quill being black and feather being blue with a white tip and black bars, rather like a real-world blue jay feather) and a plain steel-gray sword (hilt at upper left and point at lower right.

The sword is broken into two pieces, with jagged edges that would visibly mesh to form a whole if pushed together, but they are separated by the quill pen, which lies "across" the path of the sword in its own cleared channel (yep, the pen is mightier than the sword).

At certain times in the past, these arms have displayed certain lone runes in red on the scroll, but Candlekeep does not use them at this time, and does not explain what they were/are or why they were used and are not used now (magic is obviously suspected, but there are fierce debates about it being linked to Mystra, Oghma, Deneir, or other deities or non-divine forces or writings or individuals).

And no, I'm not going to reveal more about those runes right now. Perhaps later, when the time is right. So speculate away, scribes. :}


So saith Ed. Master of Realmslore, creator of the Realms and Alaundo and Candlekeep (the fictional originals, of course, not this site or real-world scribes using such monikers).

love to all,
THO
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CorellonsDevout
Master of Realmslore

USA
1900 Posts

Posted - 09 Jul 2017 :  18:13:28  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am on the fence about it. On the one hand, I think it would be great, but on the other hand, I think it could easily get flooded. It depends on what we want to do, as well. Did we want to continue moving the Realms forward, or post our own version of lore in various timelines? I know in an earlier post someone suggested using whatever lore you want if someone posts two different versions of the same thing, but that could get messy, too. A lot of work goes into making lore. As others have said, there would have to be consistency, and how would that be determined? Would we build off each other? What if there are disagreements?

On the other hand, I really like the idea. I have had ideas for the followers of Sheverash post-Sundering (following events of the Herald), but it's taken a back seat. I would like the chance to produce "canon" material, but I can also see problems that may arise.

Sweet water and light laughter

Edited by - CorellonsDevout on 09 Jul 2017 18:28:18
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe

823 Posts

Posted - 09 Jul 2017 :  18:43:10  Show Profile Send Aldrick a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I just want to be clear because there still seems to be some misunderstanding as to what I am proposing.

The Wiki will have two primary sections: One for Fanon. The fanon section will be an alternative canon to the official Realms. Everything posted there must be internally consistent, and to be accepted it must gain popular support by the community.

The other section of the Wiki is devoted to homebrew lore. This is where the stuff that is not accepted into the fanon is moved too, but it is also a place where people can post and share things from their homebrew Realms. Everything in this section is separate from the fanon material. So, if you have an alternative take on Cormyr, for example, you add it there.

With that said, when it comes to the fanon lore and the timeline stuff, this is something that has to be discussed. One of the essential goals of this project is to try and reknit back together the Realms community. So, there needs to be a way to bridge edition issues as well as handle conflicts in the established canon. This is something that has to be discussed separately.

I wanted to wait until this poll was complete (active for one week) before I created that thread, but I may just go ahead and do it. It is a conversation that needs to be had anyway, and it is best discussed there on its own separate from a discussion of whether or not we should use a Wiki.
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CorellonsDevout
Master of Realmslore

USA
1900 Posts

Posted - 09 Jul 2017 :  19:00:32  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick



With that said, when it comes to the fanon lore and the timeline stuff, this is something that has to be discussed. One of the essential goals of this project is to try and reknit back together the Realms community. So, there needs to be a way to bridge edition issues as well as handle conflicts in the established canon. This is something that has to be discussed separately.

I wanted to wait until this poll was complete (active for one week) before I created that thread, but I may just go ahead and do it. It is a conversation that needs to be had anyway, and it is best discussed there on its own separate from a discussion of whether or not we should use a Wiki.



For the fanon, we would also have to discuss and hash out disagreements, eventually settling on a compromise or something. For example, if seven scribes have a different idea for Corymr (and I mean for the fanon), it would have to be hashed out so they could find common ground and work from there.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe

823 Posts

Posted - 09 Jul 2017 :  19:13:06  Show Profile Send Aldrick a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick



With that said, when it comes to the fanon lore and the timeline stuff, this is something that has to be discussed. One of the essential goals of this project is to try and reknit back together the Realms community. So, there needs to be a way to bridge edition issues as well as handle conflicts in the established canon. This is something that has to be discussed separately.

I wanted to wait until this poll was complete (active for one week) before I created that thread, but I may just go ahead and do it. It is a conversation that needs to be had anyway, and it is best discussed there on its own separate from a discussion of whether or not we should use a Wiki.



For the fanon, we would also have to discuss and hash out disagreements, eventually settling on a compromise or something. For example, if seven scribes have a different idea for Corymr (and I mean for the fanon), it would have to be hashed out so they could find common ground and work from there.


Yes, exactly. There will have to be policies and guidelines on how to settle disputes. This is very common for Wikis as disputes and disagreements are common. All submissions will go through an editorial process, and then--once complete with that process--will be submitted for a vote.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13601 Posts

Posted - 09 Jul 2017 :  20:37:30  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And lets say something 'better' comes along a few years later - something that community loves so much more than an earlier version of said thing - then we vote again, and the newer thing has a chance to become 'the new Fanon'. Only two problems I see with that - #1, unless its very similar to the earlier version, than anyone who used that particular piece of lore to build off of risks having their stuff go askew (and I suppose they could go back in and tweak it to match the newer version, but the caveat there is that that author needs to still be around to do so). I may be over-thinking it, but that is an issue, albeit probably an extremely rare one.

The second thing is we need a 'thick skin' rule. No hard feelings if we like someone else's stuff better. I'm actually pointing a finger at myself, as well.

And as for a logo - I threw THIS together to represent 'CandleKanon' (excepted, 'official' Fanon). It would be akin to the 'comics code seal of approval' (do they even still use that?) If it bears 'the official seal', than its part of our continuity (and as I said, I just threw that together, before I even read any of the responses here - feel free to tell me "Its doody").

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 09 Jul 2017 20:40:10
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe

823 Posts

Posted - 09 Jul 2017 :  21:14:30  Show Profile Send Aldrick a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

And lets say something 'better' comes along a few years later - something that community loves so much more than an earlier version of said thing - then we vote again, and the newer thing has a chance to become 'the new Fanon'. Only two problems I see with that - #1, unless its very similar to the earlier version, than anyone who used that particular piece of lore to build off of risks having their stuff go askew (and I suppose they could go back in and tweak it to match the newer version, but the caveat there is that that author needs to still be around to do so). I may be over-thinking it, but that is an issue, albeit probably an extremely rare one.

The second thing is we need a 'thick skin' rule. No hard feelings if we like someone else's stuff better. I'm actually pointing a finger at myself, as well.

And as for a logo - I threw THIS together to represent 'CandleKanon' (excepted, 'official' Fanon). It would be akin to the 'comics code seal of approval' (do they even still use that?) If it bears 'the official seal', than its part of our continuity (and as I said, I just threw that together, before I even read any of the responses here - feel free to tell me "Its doody").


It is certainly an issue, but it can always be added to the homebrew section. It could happen but that is life. The same thing is true for the official canon, someone might come up with a better idea than what is published. It still is not going to make it official canon, no matter how good it is, because it would be a retcon of what is already established. As a result, as you pointed out, people have already built onto it. If you change that it has a ripple effect that impacts other things.

So, once something is accepted it is fanon. Besides, I am picturing the stuff accepted into the fanon as being good quality already--it would need to be to get everyone behind it. So, producing something better is setting the bar even higher.

Also, the image looks awesome. I am unsure of the exact dimensions that might need to be used, but once it has some color I think it would look fantastic.

Notice how the FR Wiki has this little banner at the top of the article with the "FA" image next to it marking it a "Featured Article"? There could be a banner with that image next to it at the top of each "Candlekanon" article.
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CorellonsDevout
Master of Realmslore

USA
1900 Posts

Posted - 09 Jul 2017 :  21:19:10  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I fully admit I would like to help with this project by contributing material, but time commitment would be an issue. It's a lot of work, and while some scribes here have been working on it for years, others (like myself), only have vague ideas. We would have to allow a good chunk of time for people to "get their thoughts in order" and submit material, and for people to vote on them. I say this, because going back to the Cormyr example, one person may be able to put up their thoughts much faster than another person, but both candidates deserve a fair chance.

Sweet water and light laughter

Edited by - CorellonsDevout on 09 Jul 2017 21:25:18
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13601 Posts

Posted - 09 Jul 2017 :  21:52:56  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick

It is certainly an issue, but it can always be added to the homebrew section. It could happen but that is life. The same thing is true for the official canon, someone might come up with a better idea than what is published. It still is not going to make it official canon, no matter how good it is, because it would be a retcon of what is already established. As a result, as you pointed out, people have already built onto it. If you change that it has a ripple effect that impacts other things.

So, once something is accepted it is fanon. Besides, I am picturing the stuff accepted into the fanon as being good quality already--it would need to be to get everyone behind it. So, producing something better is setting the bar even higher.

Okay, I was talking about if - at some later date - someone came up with something better than the already-accepted Fanon. I didn't realize we would have a 'set in stone' rule. I suppose thats a good idea.

What would be the rule to 'adding more info' to an existing entry? Would that be okay, or would the original author have full control?

quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick

Also, the image looks awesome. I am unsure of the exact dimensions that might need to be used, but once it has some color I think it would look fantastic.

Notice how the FR Wiki has this little banner at the top of the article with the "FA" image next to it marking it a "Featured Article"? There could be a banner with that image next to it at the top of each "Candlekanon" article.
Well, like I said, I was thinking along the lines of the Comics Code Seal, which was in B&W.


"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 09 Jul 2017 21:54:54
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CorellonsDevout
Master of Realmslore

USA
1900 Posts

Posted - 09 Jul 2017 :  22:52:43  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Also (and I apologize if this was clarified earlier and I just missed it), would the fanon be moving the Realms forward--5e onwards--or would scribes be retconning things they didn't like (the Spellplague, for example)? I know it was said that we would be smoothing out inconsistencies between editions, but this is about keeping established lore, right, and just smoothing out lore issues and then proceeding forward? Just asking for clarification if I missed it.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe

823 Posts

Posted - 10 Jul 2017 :  00:15:26  Show Profile Send Aldrick a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

Also (and I apologize if this was clarified earlier and I just missed it), would the fanon be moving the Realms forward--5e onwards--or would scribes be retconning things they didn't like (the Spellplague, for example)? I know it was said that we would be smoothing out inconsistencies between editions, but this is about keeping established lore, right, and just smoothing out lore issues and then proceeding forward? Just asking for clarification if I missed it.



You did not miss it. I just created another poll to cover this topic. This topic is here.

We keep beating around this bush, and I avoid mentioning it because I do not want it to impact the current polls. However, I have a feeling to try and separate these things is not working as intended. As a result, I went ahead and put forward the other poll I linked to above. This is a necessary discussion because it is the other major issue dividing the community.
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CorellonsDevout
Master of Realmslore

USA
1900 Posts

Posted - 10 Jul 2017 :  00:26:07  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I saw it :)

Sweet water and light laughter
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30015 Posts

Posted - 10 Jul 2017 :  00:57:36  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay


And as for a logo - I threw THIS together to represent 'CandleKanon' (excepted, 'official' Fanon).



You must have missed the PM I sent you a few days ago... Photobucket wants you to pay for third-party hosting, now.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe

823 Posts

Posted - 10 Jul 2017 :  01:55:27  Show Profile Send Aldrick a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay


And as for a logo - I threw THIS together to represent 'CandleKanon' (excepted, 'official' Fanon).



You must have missed the PM I sent you a few days ago... Photobucket wants you to pay for third-party hosting, now.



I got that too. Turn off / Pause Ad-Blocker. That fixed it for me.
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BadCatMan
Learned Scribe

Australia
205 Posts

Posted - 10 Jul 2017 :  02:10:40  Show Profile Send BadCatMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

And therein lies the rub. That's the problem I have with it - I would want internal consistency, not the same kind of gibberish I get when I try to look something up in a comic Wiki ("Well, it happened this way of Earth657, but on Earth 42 it happened this way, and on Earth172,936 she was actually a transgender woman from Alpha Centauri, and...").


Something we've found working on the FRW is that the Forgotten Realms has always had deep inconsistencies. The Hordelands often contradicts or gets wrong the Kara-Tur setting, prompting immense confusion. Many things were retconned and changed just between 1e and 2e. Writers always miss what each other have done. Even Ed Greenwood mixes up his own stories. That's before you get to the 4e retcons and 5e un-retcons. Inconsistencies are fundamental to any shared universe.

quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick

The Wiki will have two primary sections: One for Fanon. The fanon section will be an alternative canon to the official Realms. Everything posted there must be internally consistent, and to be accepted it must gain popular support by the community.

The other section of the Wiki is devoted to homebrew lore. This is where the stuff that is not accepted into the fanon is moved too, but it is also a place where people can post and share things from their homebrew Realms. Everything in this section is separate from the fanon material. So, if you have an alternative take on Cormyr, for example, you add it there.


You can have a decent division through the user of namespaces, that is, the types of pages are defined through their names, e.g., "Template:" pages hold code templates and "User:" pages are for users' personal matters. You can then create pages like "User:BadCatMan/Sandbox", a place where users can post junk and tinker with it before upgrading to a proper article. We also use these to organize our wiki projects. One editor uses these to archive campaign diaries for his game and bases his projects on these. Some passers-by post their characters in these (though I don't like the wiki being used to host unrelated cruft by those not working on the wiki).

Brickipedia, the Lego wiki, uses "Custom:" to distinguish people's MOCs (my own creations) from official Lego products. Custom pages even have a different colour scheme, red versus the standard blue (I don't know how to do that.) They even given ratings to them and mark approved customs with ticks. I think this is good model for the CKW to follow.

So, you could ask people to post in Custom or User spaces by default (well, good luck with that) where they can do anything they like, and then graduate community-approved work to the Main namespace (regular articles).


Another good use for a wiki is archiving and sharing popular but unofficial/unpublished work from developers. People keep wanting to know what George Krashos said about X, so rather than searching and sharing links and copies, it could just be posted on the CKW.

BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Bureaucrat of the Forgotten Realms Wiki
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe

823 Posts

Posted - 10 Jul 2017 :  02:17:20  Show Profile Send Aldrick a Private Message  Reply with Quote
BadCatMan -

I want to thank you for posting here twice. All of your suggestions are really good, and I agree with all of them. It is good to know that someone from the FRW is supportive of this idea, and is even giving ideas on how to get the Wiki in proper order.

I do not have anything to add, aside from giving you my thanks.
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BadCatMan
Learned Scribe

Australia
205 Posts

Posted - 10 Jul 2017 :  03:27:16  Show Profile Send BadCatMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm glad to help out and offer some guidance and ideas. :) I think a fanon wiki is a good idea and you've been presenting a very good approach.

I'll admit to some enlightened self-interest though. ;) It's a good outlet for the homebrew that people put on the FRW, and I'd like to see wiki skills cultivated in FR fandom. I hope a good number of CKW editors will also work on the FRW to expand the encyclopaedia of the canon Realms. So it's in both our interests. :)

I'm happy to welcome the Candlekeep Wiki into the family of FR-related wikis: the Forgotten Realms Wiki, the Baldur's Gate Wiki, the Icewind Dale Wiki, the Gold Box Wiki, the Neverwinter Nights Wiki, the Neverwinter Nights 2 Wiki, and the Neverwinter Wiki. :D (Some of those have only a single person working on them, so they're struggling.)

BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Bureaucrat of the Forgotten Realms Wiki
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Jeff Strix
Seeker

Germany
18 Posts

Posted - 10 Jul 2017 :  12:09:43  Show Profile Send Jeff Strix a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think the idea to make Candlekeep-Wiki, with "controlled" non-official (although, since WotC make only crap - there's no official canon content for me anymore) content is really great. And it would be really great to move the timeline further, 1491 DR and further.
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fw190a8
Seeker

United Kingdom
31 Posts

Posted - 10 Jul 2017 :  19:30:02  Show Profile  Visit fw190a8's Homepage  Click to see fw190a8's MSN Messenger address Send fw190a8 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi, from one of the long-term admins over at FR Wiki! :) I'm impressed by the organisation and general willingness so far, but would also like to stress that I share in the concerns of Rupert and others regarding commitment, overall editorial choices, format, etc.

On the subject of the FR Wiki, yes, it's pretty ad-heavy. 11 years ago we chose Wikia (which is now "fandom") as a provider, and they have leaned more and more heavily on advertising, whereas Wikipedia's finances come purely from donations (if I understand correctly). In a perfect world, there would be no advertising, but then in a perfect world, arguably nobody would have stolen those tablets of fate and stuff wouldn't have gone so Pete Tong in the 1300s. ;) Depending on your own morals and beliefs about advertising, the option is there to use adblock, for Firefox or Chrome, if those are your chosen web browsers. We don't have control over the "wrapper" that goes around the FR Wiki... only the content itself.

On the subject of WotC intellectual property, we always try to respect this as much as possible and I think it's only right to do so. The wiki pages are more like summaries with references, so you can find the appropriate source to read more, and direct pasting from source material is never allowed, and always removed. That said, with anything; a wiki, a fan project; a new piece of "fanon"; WotC has the right to say "get rid of it" if they think it's inappropriate. However, the primary reason to do this would be to enforce intellectual ownership. It hasn't happened like this yet, nor do I think it will if the intellectual property is used responsibly. Enough of that though!

Here's what I'm thinking though:

Start small, write a small piece of fan-made lore, individually or with a limited team. Something about the size of Rand's Travelogue or Elminster Speaks, from way back when. It might be on an area not previously covered, like what a town is like or what happened in Waterdeep on a particular date, or how aarakocra bury their dead, or what happened between 3.5 and 4e or whatever. This circumvents the issues raised earlier that people don't always agree, and it's rare to be able to collaborate on something and find everyone has the same creative vision. One person writing an entire sourcebook is almost unfeasible; but one person writing a short article? That's something that might occupy a weekend.

Get at least two people to check it over. The more the better. The Candlekeep old timers and previously published Realms authors would be extremely valuable just because they know the lore better than the average Joe. The author(s) should never be the one(s) to check it, of course.

Get it amended if it's unclear or contradicts any existing lore (canon stuff or previous fan-made stuff that's been accepted already).

When it's approved, mark it as such on the wiki or whatever online tool is being used to store all these submissions.

Get a group of similar articles together to publish in one go. Not necessarily from the same author, but with a common theme. Start small, like think of a web enhancement product from the 3.5 era, but possibly up to the size of a full "sourcebook" if there is enough interest.

Come up with a standard sort of a layout to make it into a nice PDF that looks glossy and presentable. Although a lot of us feel the quality of the Realms products has gone down in recent years, I think the quality of the presentation has only got better. I am happy to get involved in turning words on a page into a nicely presented PDF.

Release the PDF, but I'm not going to suggest where. The Dungeon Master's Guild is an option, or elsewhere, but make it free. I think that as soon as money's involved, it taints the project somewhat, and contributors should really be giving their time for the love of the subject matter rather than the monetary gain. But keep the original articles on the wiki or whatever online tool is chosen, so that people can still see them individually if they want.

Emphasize quality over quantity. When I joined the FR Wiki, we all knew that it would be a massive pain to police all the articles, make sure they're all referenced, categorised, not infringing, and yet still be easy to use. We stunted the growth of the wiki and put off many would-be editors, but we ended up with a polished result considering it's "just a group of fans", with the obvious caveat that it's nowhere near finished, and probably never will be. It's my opinion that if time is taken to maximise the quality of whatever is produced in this project, it will pay off over just pumping out as much lore and as many extra rules as possible!

The wonderful thing about the digital age is that things don't have to be exhaustive before you release them. Perhaps there is a collation of 20 pages on the subject of the types of bees in Halruaa (trivial example). This can always be marked "version 1" and then, if more ecology stuff gets written, it can be worked in, and "version 2" released later. This gets around the "recycling" problem often seen in TSR and WotC products, where you'd be excited to buy a new sourcebook, but find you already knew most of what's in it, from having read previous editions. I'm looking at YOU, Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide. ;) Also, this makes a published errata irrelevant; you can just edit the original and publish a new version when (and it will happen) a mistake is discovered.

I'm not sure I mind what it looks like really, or who, if anyone, gets credit. It's probably clear that since Candlekeep's website has not changed significantly in many years, and the forums aren't really a suitable way for these contributions to be managed, it would have to be separate, but if it's got Candlekeep branding or whatever branding, it doesn't worry me. It's not a competition. The common goal is that we all want to see the Realms survive and continue, and the fewer barriers in the way, the easier that will be to achieve, considering many of us have limited time and resources.

To sum up, I think the key principles, for me, would be:
* Small commitment per person, no obligation, no money involved.
* Thoroughly check before release to ensure it doesn't already exist and doesn't contradict previous work.
* Emphasize quality over quantity in all cases. Have a few excellent releases instead of many mediocre ones.
* Make the final output glossy and presentable, as close to the visual quality of the WotC products as feasible.
* Consider releasing new versions of existing "products" when new material is accepted or mistakes are found. Don't just "tack on" a few extra pages with corrections.
* Stick to the format that people already know: a "book", thin or thick, on a particular theme, with chapters and headings.

Sorry, that turned into a bit of an epic post! Hope that's helpful at least in a small way!

Contributor to the Forgotten Realms Wiki: http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com
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fw190a8
Seeker

United Kingdom
31 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2017 :  17:10:33  Show Profile  Visit fw190a8's Homepage  Click to see fw190a8's MSN Messenger address Send fw190a8 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I took the liberty of having a go at BadCatMan's article on the Order of the Bladewrights. Bear in mind this is a really rough first draft, but shows the sort of output we might want, pending decent art and a bit more typographical flair.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4PHSakiQ8gpWGtsTjJqSllJZG8

Comments welcome.

Contributor to the Forgotten Realms Wiki: http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com
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Zeromaru X
Learned Scribe

Colombia
324 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2017 :  18:10:22  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If there is no problem with that, I'm going to shamelessly steal a few templates from the FR wiki (the members infobox and the userboxes... for the user pages)

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 16 Jul 2017 18:14:32
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13601 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2017 :  18:24:34  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I did see it, I just didn't care enough to do anything about it.

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay


And as for a logo - I threw THIS together to represent 'CandleKanon' (excepted, 'official' Fanon).



You must have missed the PM I sent you a few days ago... Photobucket wants you to pay for third-party hosting, now.
Well, I guess I should find a new hosting site, and just take all of that down. I've hated Photobucket for awhile: I had switched to another hosting service, which they promptly bought, and after swearing they would 'maintain it', they shut it down entirely within three months of buying it (they bought it just to kill it). They didn't even warn anyone, and a lot of people lost their stuff.

They're an ebil company who deserves no love - all my stuff is getting take down. Now I just need to find some alternate (Tiny Pics is slow and clunky as hell, and also ad-heavy).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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