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KanzenAU
Senior Scribe
Australia
763 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Jun 2017 : 11:51:54
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A lot of conclusions being drawn before we've seen the final product in this thread.
I know there's not much love for the post-Spellplague Realms on these boards, but can't we at least wait until we see the final product before we tear it apart? At the moment it's hate based on web-stories and fragments of information - and admittedly a history of being hurt
That's all I'll say on the matter though. People here have certainly been through enough Realms-changes to be entitled to their opinions. |
Regional maps for Waterdeep, Triboar, Ardeep Forest, and Cormyr on DM's Guild, plus a campaign sized map for the North |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2017 : 13:12:37
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| I'll buy the product and read it before I pass final judgement, of course. However, since we already know that they are connecting this to Acererak for no readily apparent reason, and going with a name to amuse preteens, I am comfortable commenting on those aspects of the product. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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RDS
Acolyte
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2017 : 16:40:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Other Things:
And yeah, I miss Farscape as well. I managed to incorporate a wee bit of that into my Post-Apocalyptic Game I'm starting to run (back-story, mostly, merging it with some stuff from Defiance, to explain the non-human races present).
That show also had a catgirl. 
Ya' know, I just went to look for pics of the one from Farsacpe, and now that I'm looking at her again, she looks more like a Drow.
That is the exact vibe I got from the Omec also. |
RDS |
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see
Learned Scribe
235 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2017 : 05:31:47
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
While I can agree with this sentiment, there is precedent set.
Yes, but the Second Sundering is a perfect excuse to blow that precedent to the Far Realm. We got back the dead, the 4e exarchs reclaimed full divinity, and the beast gods are free! |
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KanzenAU
Senior Scribe
Australia
763 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2017 : 15:49:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'll buy the product and read it before I pass final judgement, of course. However, since we already know that they are connecting this to Acererak for no readily apparent reason, and going with a name to amuse preteens, I am comfortable commenting on those aspects of the product.
I still have hope, dammit! History may consign me to the part of the fool, but I still have hope! Maybe they'll show good reason for the connection between worlds. Maybe Nanny Pupu will be respectful and insightful... ah @&$! it. |
Regional maps for Waterdeep, Triboar, Ardeep Forest, and Cormyr on DM's Guild, plus a campaign sized map for the North |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2017 : 15:53:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
So maybe thats it - FR's 'jungle region' is more like a campy, comic version of Africa, in much the same way that Zakhara ISN'T 'Arabia', but rather, the 'tall tales' version of it.
The "european period X" parts of FR aren't 'europian period X" but the 'tall tales' version of it too.
Of course there isn't an accurate Africa or Aribia. That would be just as boring as an accurate Europe which for this very reason isn't in either. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2017 : 16:31:32
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quote:
Originally posted by KanzenAU
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'll buy the product and read it before I pass final judgement, of course. However, since we already know that they are connecting this to Acererak for no readily apparent reason, and going with a name to amuse preteens, I am comfortable commenting on those aspects of the product.
I still have hope, dammit! History may consign me to the part of the fool, but I still have hope! Maybe they'll show good reason for the connection between worlds. Maybe Nanny Pupu will be respectful and insightful... ah @&$! it.
It could be a great product despite the stupid name and pointless connection to Acererak. We won't know until it's in our hands. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2017 : 17:40:49
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To play devil's advocate for just a moment, FR has basically BECOME D&D, and D&D was always (is that good English?) about 'having fun with some friends'.
So even though the majority of us here are 'big, stuffy grown-ups', if this wasn't FR, and we were just playing some random game at some hobby shop (or con), would we laugh at the names, or would they still piss us off?
Just something to think about. FR isn't the 'shiney' it once was. In fact, it may have never been (Rose-colored glasses and all) - I can think of a few dozen things that have made me do a double-take over the years (and we all have such lists, and at least half the stuff on them won't be the same as the stuff on the next person's list). For example, the Acererak stuff doesn't really bother me, since all the old GH stuff has entered this 'generic D&D limbo' since 4e (much of it - and stuff from Mystara - got washed into transitive planes, like the Feywild and Shadowfell), plus I am a former GH DM and Known World (OD&D) fan. The silly names have been around ever since RAS discovered a typewriter (or did they already have word processors by then? I'm SO damn old..)
So maybe all I am saying is to just stop looking at the stupid crap (which has always been there), and start concentrating on the fact that FR is "alive and well" again. And here's the kicker - the reason why we WERE ABLE to ignore the 'smelly bits' in previous editions is because of the sheer plethora of available good material, so maybe, if they keep producing stuff, we can get to that point again.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Jun 2017 17:41:44 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2017 : 05:20:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
time-strapped or lazy design team who borrow real world concepts and bolt them onto a fantasy world as best they can.
Isn't that the reason we have Mexico-Realms (ala Maztica) and Egypt-Reamls (ala Mulhorand)? Heck the Pantheon is basically pulled straight from Egypt.
The exact reason. Poor.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Starshade
Learned Scribe
Norway
279 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2017 : 19:26:26
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That's basically how the realms was introduced for me: "Forgotten Realms is one of the oldest D&D worlds, rich in detail, and almost every culture got a parallell to an existing one, the mongol invasion turned into the tuigan hordes..." etc.
Having the egyptian pantheon might be sloppy, but for casual gamers, it allows easy access to some known part of mythology, I like that part 
But I'll probably redecorate Maztica totally, if need be. I need some parts blank to build on. |
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Scots Dragon
Seeker
United Kingdom
86 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2017 : 02:36:47
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
time-strapped or lazy design team who borrow real world concepts and bolt them onto a fantasy world as best they can.
Isn't that the reason we have Mexico-Realms (ala Maztica) and Egypt-Reamls (ala Mulhorand)? Heck the Pantheon is basically pulled straight from Egypt.
The exact reason. Poor.
-- George Krashos
To be fair, the Forgotten Realms has always had to one degree or another an explicit connection to our world, so having the occasional interplanar bit of migration would seem to make sense. Especially since there are deities from other real-world pantheons found elsewhere having 'gone native', so to speak; Tyr, Mielikki, Loviatar, Silvanus, Oghma, etc.
Unther, Mulhorand, Maztica, etc. make a little more sense in the context that these were once actually members of the cultures they resemble. |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2017 : 06:47:21
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something else to consider.
if you recall. that Ed had in mind his own version of mulhorand and what not. what we got in the finished product was someone elses own doing.
even zahkara ( which I can never remember how to spell) kara-tur took over places in the realms....
stuff was shoehorned in from the begining, even the bloodstonelands.
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why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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RDS
Acolyte
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2017 : 12:53:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Starshade
That's basically how the realms was introduced for me: "Forgotten Realms is one of the oldest D&D worlds, rich in detail, and almost every culture got a parallell to an existing one, the mongol invasion turned into the tuigan hordes..." etc.
Having the egyptian pantheon might be sloppy, but for casual gamers, it allows easy access to some known part of mythology, I like that part
But I'll probably redecorate Maztica totally, if need be. I need some parts blank to build on.
I ate up all the old mythologies as I was growing up. Having a recognizable Egyptian gods was a selling point to me. The ability or play in my favorite setting and have an exotic local that all the players can understand the deities and what the priest they're dealing with represents rather than a priest of some odd sounding and otherwise meaningless name. Nearly every player will know of Set, Ra or Thoth. We've all seen the many old Mummy movies and to get to play in that arena without having to explain every little nuance is nice. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2017 : 15:25:12
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I don't have a problem with them taking gods from RW pantheons, I just wished they at least renamed them. That way, anyway looking at the setting sees it has its own gods, but if someone were to dig deeper (and into the Planscape/D&D Over-cosmology stuff), you'd learn that these are gods that have other names on other worlds.
For example, Hermes is one of my favorite gods, and we don't really have anyone like him in FR, and even though I'd love to port him in (IMG), I don't think I'd want to use his Greek - or Roman - name.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
<snip> For example, the Acererak stuff doesn't really bother me, since all the old GH stuff has entered this 'generic D&D limbo' since 4e (much of it - and stuff from Mystara - got washed into transitive planes, like the Feywild and Shadowfell*), plus I am a former GH DM and Known World (OD&D) fan.
* Just a slight correction/addition - a LOT of it also went into the Nentir Vale/Nerath (non)setting, which seems to be some sort of 'temporary storage area' for D&D geography (my own take on it, to try to make it make sense within the greater D&D context/cosmology).
So if we figure a lot of that stuff got moved from it's old locations (and worlds) during the Wailing Years/4e into Nerath (which I like to think could possibly even be on/in Abeir), then it makes sense that some of it could have found its way in The Realms as of 5e (and Ao's reset).
In fact, we could take it even one step further and assume this isn't the first time its happened - "getting stuff from other worlds" is, after all, FR's most basic premise. Like I've said elsewhere, if Crystal Spheres are like the Lego sets of the Overgods, then maybe Abeir is just the box of spare parts.
Which means FR (and Ao) are like that one kid that mixes stuff from all different lego sets, like SW, HP, DC, etc.., etc. Thus, FR becomes the mash-up, we just never realized it before (which also helps smooth the edges with things like interloper gods & cultures). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 26 Jun 2017 15:30:44 |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2017 : 01:28:42
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| Was Hermes one of the Gods mentioned in Desert of Resolution? I know Promeatheous and Baldar we're, but there were some other real world gods who made an appearance, but who really have no other connection to FR outside the old Bakkar Empire. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2017 : 01:46:16
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Wasn't the original Ed Greenwood plan for Mulhorand basically turned into Thay, a Stygia like slightly Egyptian favoured place of dark magic?
Anyways the current, Mulhorand still has the connection to the old flavour of Egypt with Egyptian Gods, but now with room for some unique and strange twists, like parts of the place and it's people we're trapped in Abeir, other parts were dominated by the Imaskar, and who knows what else or where those Gods have been. So room for some weird stories.
Also Mulhorand started off as this simple Egyptian stand in, but as it's history gets explored things get stranger, like the intro of steam punk elements,, or the fact that the really early history of Mulhorand and Unther actually resembles the jews (freed from slavery by religious figures who proved their faith was stronger then their oppressors, then wandered across the desert to find the promised land like by the word of God/s, and then founding nations (Isreal(Mulhorand)/Judea(Unther). Eventually its becomes more like Rome, building this insanely vast Empire, run by burocracts and worked by slaves.
Then after some set backs it becomes more like Byzantinium, with the Thay and other regions breaking off.
Then puff gone.
But Mulhorand was reborn, but this time is very different, with Slavery abolished and perhaps some other strange stuff going on. Resemblence is unknown, no historical comparsion, maybe a polytheastic Iran, but more sexually liberated?
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2017 : 01:51:40
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| Nerath couldn't be on Abeir, one Abeir doesn't have Gods Nerath does, Abeir doesn't have a weave or even the remains of a weave, so no normal wizards for example, all magic is innate, so only magic items and magical creatures like Dragons and Primordials and relics of Primordials have any magic. It's sort of a low magic setting in that it's uncommon, but with some major exceptions (we see. Abier in The Devil You Know.). |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2017 : 01:55:51
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| Nerath does have a connection to Faerun, in 4e a Deva from Nerath, from a 4e novel is reborn on Faerun after the Nerath novel. There is even mentions of Nerath deities in that FR novel. I think the name of Sword of the Gods or something I forget. |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2017 : 07:41:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
But Mulhorand was reborn, but this time is very different, with Slavery abolished and perhaps some other strange stuff going on. Resemblence is unknown, no historical comparsion, maybe a polytheastic Iran, but more sexually liberated?
AFAIK, slavery is still a thing in Mulhorand. They way SCAG described it, the mulhorandi love to be enslaved. They paint it like a good thing, with slaves being cared of and stuff, but is slavery nonetheless. In fact, that aspect of Mulhorand is very like the Tevinter Imperium from Dragon Age.
As for Nerath, yeah. Nerath is another world different from Abeir-Toril. That is said the 4e Manual of the Planes. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2017 : 10:36:11
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| The SCAG makes it clear that slavery has been abolished in Mulhorand, so I'm don't know what your refering too. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2017 : 13:57:19
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Which is why I insist canon is meaningless now, since everything is subject to change, even within an edition, and is different from edition to edition (so a statement could be both true and false at the same time).
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
Nerath couldn't be on Abeir, one Abeir doesn't have Gods Nerath does, Abeir doesn't have a weave or even the remains of a weave, so no normal wizards for example, all magic is innate, so only magic items and magical creatures like Dragons and Primordials and relics of Primordials have any magic. It's sort of a low magic setting in that it's uncommon, but with some major exceptions (we see. Abier in The Devil You Know.).
Well, then I go back to my other theory - that each Crystal Sphere (each world?) has a 'toy box' of spare parts, and Nerath is the toy box from GH. So Nerath isn't (on) Abeir, but is the Oerth equivalent of Abeir.
It might be more interesting to place Nerath on Mystara, thus making Mystara Oerth's box of spare parts (which makes some sense, from a meta-gaming viewpoint). Then, I suppose, Athas could be DL/Krynn's toy box (the draconic stuff makes some sense that way), and we have the 'triumvirate of worlds' or whatever that was called in SJ - I always forget), with its own side-board of of worlds, also in a triangular formation (I believe I said this elsewhere, and even linked to an illustration of what that would look like - sort of like a 6-pointed star made from two separate triangles). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2017 : 03:07:50
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My theory is more parrell evolution, Nerath happened to evolve with some similarities to Greyhawk and FR, likely because of the influence of deities, and perhaps other mystical forces.
Same with similarities between FR and Greyhawk.
As for Abeir, I find it funny that Erin M. Evans novel made me want to explore Abeir more then anything in 4e did, she managed to catch my curiosity and direct it to that place. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2017 : 03:28:02
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As for Slavery, SCAG made it sound like the Mulhorandi Gods delivered the Mulhorand from being enslaved by the Imaskari... Who'd already out lawed slavery.
I have to admit I found that part confusing, perhaps the Imaskari had some form of serfdom or other institution that officially wasn't slavery, but was in practical terms was slavery, but with restrictions.
Still Mulhorand is like historical Mulhorand, ruled by incarnated Gods, on the surface, but dig deeper its for more conplicated like the rest of FR where you really can't ignore the implications of the past.
Like what came back when a good chunk of Mulhorandi were exiled along with the Untherites to Abier?
How does Mulhorand deal with the Dragon Princes on its border in territory formerly claimed by Mulhorand?
How does Mulhorand deal with the greater influence and presence of the Feywild and Shadowfell?
The Mulhorandi Gods are back, but also far more active then they've been in centuries (ToT doesn't count), what are the implications of that.
Ra and Horus are split again, seperate deities, instead of a merged being.
Sharess (Bast) survived the disappearance of the rest of her Pantheon during the Spellplague, what is she up to? Is she Incarnated too, or is she still chilling in Brightwater?
Is Skuld back? Even in 4e the fate of Skuld was a major mystery, no one knew where the Mulhorandi Capital was.
Is Mulhorand as Xenophobic as it used to be, or have the Mulhorandi Gods chilled out on that (its kind of hinted at that they have).
I think in the SCAG they were really pushing the idea that the Mulhorandi Gods had learned a lesson and where more moral this time (for mostly Good deities they allowed Mulhorand to commit some major acts of barbarity in the past, attempts at genocide, slavery, xenophobia, and so on, that didn't jive with being ruled by a lawful good deity, so I think they tried to correct that paradox this time).
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2017 : 04:04:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
As for Slavery, SCAG made it sound like the Mulhorandi Gods delivered the Mulhorand from being enslaved by the Imaskari... Who'd already out lawed slavery.
I have to admit I found that part confusing, perhaps the Imaskari had some form of serfdom or other institution that officially wasn't slavery, but was in practical terms was slavery, but with restrictions.
I don't think so, but can be the case.
The mulhorandi rebellion started, however, because the archmage Nezram believed the Spellplague was an Imaskari plot to retake their former lands, and incited rebellion. So, it had nothing to do with slavery or serfdom, just with a guy who do not trusted in the new Imaskari.
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
Like what came back when a good chunk of Mulhorandi were exiled along with the Untherites to Abier?
How does Mulhorand deal with the Dragon Princes on its border in territory formerly claimed by Mulhorand?
In the Devil you Know (novel) is stated that the mulhorandi sold themselves as slaves to the genasi of Shyr (the equivalent Abeiran land to the Old Empires region), and then sold the untherites as slaves of less status. That's why the untherites eventually revived Gilgeam through faith shenanigans to deal with the slavers, both genasi and mulhorandi. So yeah, mulhorandi love being enslaved, they even sell themselves as slaves...
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
Sharess (Bast) survived the disappearance of the rest of her Pantheon during the Spellplague, what is she up to? Is she Incarnated too, or is she still chilling in Brightwater?
She became a universal Faerunian goddess in 4e, subservient of Sune. So, she may have returned to Mulhorand, but she have followers across Faerun now.
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
Is Skuld back? Even in 4e the fate of Skuld was a major mystery, no one knew where the Mulhorandi Capital was.
Skuld was destroyed during the Spellplague, and was a ruin you can explore in the 1479-80s years.
However, knowing WotC, they will say Skuld was never destroyed, but in another plane and survived the Spellplague...
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
Is Mulhorand as Xenophobic as it used to be, or have the Mulhorandi Gods chilled out on that (its kind of hinted at that they have).
Dunno, though the Tymantherans had a good relationship with the Mulhorandi during the rebellion (and they did not helped the Imaskari to maintain good relationships with the Mulhorandi, in fact), so maybe Mulhorand is still xenofobic, except with dragonborn. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2017 : 05:15:14
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I would keep Skuld as a ruin, maybe with a 'new city' growing up around it (so basically, a MASSIVE dungeon within a ring of 'settled area'). Considering the culture (or rather, the RW culture it is based upon), I would make the place undead-heavy, and also make it one of the few places in 'New Mulhorand' that is accepting of outlanders (adventurers willing to go into the 'old city' and clear sections). Maybe even have a major Anubis temple sponsoring 'raids' into the place (Yes, i know Anubis didn't make the trip the first time...maybe its Kelemvor in alias). And of course, a cult of set within the ruins trying to keep things the way they are (and I only just now learned that Set is a 'God of Foreigners', which makes a lot of sense).
As for Dragonborn... Egyptians did NOT have a lot of love for all things reptilian. However, Mulhorand is NOT Egypt, and even the Mulan people were never pureblood Egyptians, and certainly aren't now, after their Imaskari enslavement and thousands of years. So, who knows? The Shou LOVE dragonkind, and since the two empires get along (which is actually kind of odd), and both are Imaskari survivor-states (although one is the survivor of the slaves, and the other, the survivor of the masters), perhaps some 'dragon love' has rubbed off on the former Mesopotamians (although, you'd think Tiamat would have nerfed that, and Bahamut was an Untheric deity - their enemy... once again, I'm having some trouble picturing the Mulhorandi liking dragonborn).
On the other hand, in another thread we were discussing how the followers of Tiamat are primarily Half-Dragons (Dragonkin), and the followers of Bahamut (Marduk) were primarily Dragonborn, so perhaps Mulhorandi have made that distinction (If the Scales of War did happen in the Elsir/Chionthar Vale, that would have been right on their border, pretty-much, so I doubt they would take kindly to any large numbers of Half-Dragons). If so, they'd probably be one of the few human cultures able to easily discern the difference between the two types. And another way of looking at it would be the dragonborn of Tymanther were friendly toward them, and may have let them know about their 'evil kin', so the Mulhorandi may have felt it was better to ally with the ones that warned them, rather than shun them all (as they would have done in times past).
As for Murghôm and Semphar - I don't like them both being the same kind of flavor. At least differentiate them by having the Dragonkin/evil dragons in charge of one (Semphar?), and the Dragonborn/Good dragons in charge of the other. Or it could be the other way around - not sure which works best. I'd have to check the lore in the Dragon Magic sourcebook - there was some dragon-lore (Wyrmbane Helm) regarding Solon in there. There was also some dragon lore regarding Solon and the Raurin desert in the three Hordelands modules (Gaumahavi, the purple dragon). Purple Dust, purple dragons, Purple marble... we seem to have a theme. What color was that magical bio-metal down in Durpar?
But I digress...
Edit:
And I only just recalled the Khaasta have made a large incursion into the Lake of Salt region. Once again, one more reason for Mulhorandi to not be too happy with 'scaleykind' (not to mention the Sarrukh hiding there, which are who the Khaasta are looking for).
If they leave Thay as the 4e 'realm of the undead' (a'la the Plateau of Leng), then they can give Mulhorand Thay's old flavor, which was Ed's original flavor for Mulhorand - Stygia (Conan) like, dark psuedo-Egypt... which was heavily serpent-flavored (so set's a no-brainer). I could definitely live with (and get behind) Mulhorand having that flavor. Even if it is derivative, at least its not a direct knock-off. Then Thay can have its weird, Dread-ring induced flavor, or what some here have suggested - a building 'civil war' (but keep the top plateau CREEPY). It could even be that dragonborn are now treated as a sort-of nobility (like Knights, keeping the 'depredations of Tiamat' at bay) in Mulhorand. Maybe even do a 'Dragonkings' kind of thing, like in Darksun (of course, half-dragons actually work better for that, s maybe keep that with the 'evil' drago kingdom). If that would be the case, than I would definitely have the 'good' dragons in charge of Murghôm (perhaps many of the Tymanthans emigrated there, before the world got re-Sundered). Of course, that throws a monkey-wrench into my 'Shou-Semphar canal idea, but whatever. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 29 Jun 2017 05:35:21 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2017 : 05:38:36
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There isn't only the issue of Mulhorandi liking dragonborn, there is also a problem of FR dragonborn liking Mulhorandi. For FR dragonborns slavery is the most evil thing you can do. A tymantheran dragonborn can forgive a dragon (because they can accept that Faerun's dragons aren't Abeir's dragons), but they usually kill a slaver on the spot.
And the Mulhorandi are slavers (regardless if their slavery is "good"). |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2017 : 05:47:02
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The last post was getting over-long, but I wanted to continue my train of thought, which began to run away with itself.
Murghôm: Last bastion of Tymanther, and home to the center of the Church of Bahamut (Marduk). The capital city would almost be like Vatican City... except with dragonborn. And the Dragonborn would be like paladins to the human population (where's Dragonbait when you need him?) they would use some sort of epic magic (perhaps using some 'relic' of Gaumahavi?) to create new dragonbornm, a'la 3rd edition dragonborn (from humans who are found worthy).
Semphar: Home to a rising 'church of Tiamat' (I'm almost tempted to call her Takhisis at this point), where the humans are slaves in all but name only, and 'forced breeding' programs are done to produce more half-dragons, of all sorts of varieties (various evil dragons with all sorts of races). As in Murghôm, the dragonkin are treated like nobility, but in this nation its with a sinister connotation.
The contested lands between the two countries (and two rivers) would be a constant war-zone. I would like to have some sort of plot-device in place that would force the two to have the Gbor Nor (Brightstar Lake) remain 'neutral', and war-free (mostly). Maybe because both want to insure trade continues, to maintain their profitable economies? That might work... dragons ARE greedy...
EDIT:
1435 DR: Guamahavi and Tchazzar (restored) fight an epic battle above the waters of Gbor Nor, destroying nearly all craft upon the waters, and the harbors of over a dozen cities. Both retreat, badly wounded, are not heard from again*. Murghom and Semphar - their economies crippled by the destruction of their trading base - come to an agreement regarding the waters; that although there would be future conflict between the two, it would not be allowed to take place on, in, or above Brightstar lake.
Above is homebrew, of course. Just trying to justify my McGuffin above, using some old lore to do so. I would assume those two would've been the 'big bads' of those two kingdoms, and they would indeed be a good match, power-wise.
*Not sure if we would want them still around or not, so I leave this open-ended (as of the end of 4e). In 5e, one or both may have returned. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 29 Jun 2017 06:02:23 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2017 : 11:06:16
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Was Tymanther wiped out while I was away? Because "last bastion of Tymanther" sounds like if it doesn't exists anymore (and seeing what they are doing with all that was created in 4e...)
As for Murghôm, in 4e it was a dracocracy (?), and the SCAG implies it still exist as such. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2017 : 15:59:40
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My non-familiarity with 4e lore is why I wasn't sure which way to spin Murghôm and Semphar, but given their history of animosity, I think it would be best to continue that, even with both being 'ruled by dragons' (which do not have to be actual dragons, as I noted above). If Murghôm is independent, or even under nominal Mulhorandi control (as it was in the past), then it could be the 'ebil one', and Semphar could be said to have the same type of relationship with Shou lung, since that is what it officially had at the end of 2e (and I believe on into 3e) - a vassal-state of Shou. Of course, either way we have problems - its sort of weird to Mulhorand and Shou getting along (but who's to say they still are in 5e?), if their two vassals-states are at war with each other (although it could just be a 'proxy war').
As for Tymanther - I've heard they were gone, but then I heard they weren't. So I figure maybe whatever befell most of them when the world was re-Sundered sent quite a few of them scurrying east (just trying to get all the square pegs to fit into round holes at this point - I'd prefer to bring back what was there before, and move the Tymanther stuff someplace that never really got any attention anyway). Until we get some sources on that region, I would take anything broad-strokes (like whats in the few 5e FR books we have) as 'hearsay', and NOT 'set-in-stone'. They've reset other regions completely to their pre-3e state, even when it made little sense to do so, so I'm not taking anything at face value until I see a specific sourcebook covering the region (and its the perfect time to do some of that reshuffling we've been needing - the Sundering is the PERFECT excuse for it). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 29 Jun 2017 23:13:09 |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2017 : 19:27:25
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| Murghôm was a group of city states each ruled by a Dragon, still a human population in 4e and no change in 5e, although it's noted that it's lead to a lot of Dragon sorcerors. |
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The Tomb of Annihilation is a Tomb for 9 lost Gods
