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Delwa
Master of Realmslore

USA
1268 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2017 :  19:39:29  Show Profile  Visit Delwa's Homepage Send Delwa a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cyrinishad

Cyric has warned all who would listen, that the Realms would be begging for his return from his 1000 year imprisonment!

Free Cyric! Destroy all gods!


Sir, are you suggesting we make primordial soup?

- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!

"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus
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Cyrinishad
Learned Scribe

300 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2017 :  19:42:34  Show Profile Send Cyrinishad a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Delwa

quote:
Originally posted by Cyrinishad

Cyric has warned all who would listen, that the Realms would be begging for his return from his 1000 year imprisonment!

Free Cyric! Destroy all gods!


Sir, are you suggesting we make primordial soup?



Yes... I am the Fly!

To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge. -Socrates

Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. -Dr. Seuss
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2017 :  19:54:03  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cyrinishad

Cyric has warned all who would listen, that the Realms would be begging for his return from his 1000 year imprisonment!

Free Cyric! Destroy all gods!



For destroying all the gods, can we start with Cyric?

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Delwa
Master of Realmslore

USA
1268 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2017 :  19:55:07  Show Profile  Visit Delwa's Homepage Send Delwa a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Cyrinishad

Cyric has warned all who would listen, that the Realms would be begging for his return from his 1000 year imprisonment!

Free Cyric! Destroy all gods!



For destroying all the gods, can we start with Cyric?



Gonna need a biiiig fly swatter.

- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!

"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2017 :  20:32:06  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone

Less is more, more is less. Maybe WotC is Bi-Polar, and is going through a manic phase, only to be followed be a tear everything apart phase...
More like, "we are seeing some success... lets start acting like the designers we were in 4e!"

You ever get the feeling that no matter how many times someone's ego gets deflated, they STILL think their approach to everything is the right way?

I feel a "here we go again" era coming on.

They need to be reminded that EVERYTHING they created in 4e was... Nanny Pu Pu.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
4425 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2017 :  20:41:06  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone

Less is more, more is less. Maybe WotC is Bi-Polar, and is going through a manic phase, only to be followed be a tear everything apart phase...
More like, "we are seeing some success... lets start acting like the designers we were in 4e!"

You ever get the feeling that no matter how many times someone's ego gets deflated, they STILL think their approach to everything is the right way?

I feel a "here we go again" era coming on.

They need to be reminded that EVERYTHING they created in 4e was... Nanny Pu Pu.



Can't be a new Realms-bashing thread without hating on some 4e.

EDIT: Oh and Cry me a River

Good song^

Edited by - Diffan on 20 Jun 2017 20:43:11
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2017 :  22:47:56  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey, I ended on a joke! (sort of)

And you linked to a Justin Timberlake song? May Cyric eat your children!




EDIT:
ON a more serious note, I actually thought it was relevant. The 'feeling' I got from the 4e design team was, "we can do whatever we want, and they'll still buy it!", and I was only pointing out that its starting to look like that same paradigm again.

Naming a Realms character Nanny Pu Pu is like naming one Pickle Bouldershoulder. Its moronic. It also shows that their 'target audience' is once again NEW tabletop gamers... which was their target audience in 4e (new fans, rather than appeasing the old). The comparison, I felt, was relevant. This is akin to Coca-Cola coming out with 'Newer Coke', IMHO.

However, from a business perspective, I can see it (I've seen the age-group playing D&D at my local stores), but its a bit short-sighted. Learn from anime - they 'mature' as their audience does (which, in the case of anime, means more cleavage and ridiculously HUGE boobs on pencil-thin girls). Why were so many people ready to jump on the bus of FR back in the day? I think it was less 'the most awesomist thing ever', then 'it was the RIGHT THING at the RIGHT TIME. The fans had 'grown out of' Greyhawk, with its silly 'soda golems' and what-not. They were ready for something more mature. I feel this move to appeal to a younger demographic is a huge step backwards, and goes against why the Realms became so popular in the first place. D&D can be MORE than just the 'starter RPG'.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 20 Jun 2017 23:00:39
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
4425 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2017 :  22:58:38  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Hey, I ended on a joke! (sort of)

And you linked to a Justin Timberlake song? May Cyric eat your children!





Enjoy the BANE of Existence!!! Muwhahahaha.......
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1621 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2017 :  02:42:27  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nanny PuPu got an eye roll from me, but its a minor goofiness that doesn't destroy the setting.

I'm curious who Wongo and the others are, but its a tomb, so its safe to guess they are dead Gods, Not current players.

Wongo isn't the first monkey God in the realms, I believe Kara Tur had one.
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KanzenAU
Senior Scribe

Australia
763 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2017 :  04:39:46  Show Profile Send KanzenAU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm guessing these "gods" are the countless nature spirits created by Ubtao mentioned in Powers and Pantheons.
quote:
Ubtao imbued a portion of his essence in the land of Chult itself, into the terrain features, the rivers and streams, the vegetation, and the animal life. These fragments of Ubtao's being became countless minor nature spirits.

I have a feeling the Chult LYSK segment talked about these nature spirits too, without naming any.

These Lost Gods might be a perfectly suitable use of established canon if they're going down this path.

The name PuPu, while it leaves much to be desired, mainly reminds me of my playing of Final Fantasy games in years long gone past.

Regional maps for Waterdeep, Triboar, Ardeep Forest, and Cormyr on DM's Guild, plus a campaign sized map for the North
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3802 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2017 :  10:57:35  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KanzenAU

I'm guessing these "gods" are the countless nature spirits created by Ubtao mentioned in Powers and Pantheons.
quote:
Ubtao imbued a portion of his essence in the land of Chult itself, into the terrain features, the rivers and streams, the vegetation, and the animal life. These fragments of Ubtao's being became countless minor nature spirits.

I have a feeling the Chult LYSK segment talked about these nature spirits too, without naming any.

These Lost Gods might be a perfectly suitable use of established canon if they're going down this path.




Considering that James Lowder himself said that the adventure is respectful of the source material, this sounds pretty likely, actually. Nice catch.

Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things.
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe

Ireland
705 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2017 :  21:21:52  Show Profile Send Shadowsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor

Nanny PuPu got an eye roll from me, but its a minor goofiness that doesn't destroy the setting.

I'm curious who Wongo and the others are, but its a tomb, so its safe to guess they are dead Gods, Not current players.

Wongo isn't the first monkey God in the realms, I believe Kara Tur had one.



These silly names come from no other than Perkins himself. This looks more and more like his personal game than the Realms overall. Perkins thinks these names are funny but I find them off putting and annoying. Keep your silliness for your own games.

“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien

*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2017 :  21:52:13  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wongo seems odd to me, but I'm not familiar enough with African names to be able to say much about it -- I simply don't have enough information to make a call on it.

The Pu'Pu thing, though -- even if that is a totally legitimate name in some parts of the world, they admitted it was a placeholder that they left because it made 12 year olds giggle. I'd never let something go for outside playtesting with a placeholder name, and I'd certainly never keep something just because preteens were amused at the lowbrow humor of a scatological reference.

This product, and the D&D game, are supposed to be marketed to a wider audience than preteens. As someone who is supposedly part of the target audience, I want something that caters to more than one demographic.

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Starshade
Learned Scribe

Norway
279 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2017 :  22:09:17  Show Profile Send Starshade a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I might think Wongo is slightly stereotypical and stupid sounding, but I'm just a European who have learned a bit of an African language. It's the native speakers who is a better judge. And to be honest, I'd think the lore, background and making the area interesting is more important than slightly odd names.
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Scots Dragon
Seeker

United Kingdom
86 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2017 :  22:11:24  Show Profile Send Scots Dragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Wongo seems odd to me, but I'm not familiar enough with African names to be able to say much about it -- I simply don't have enough information to make a call on it.

The Pu'Pu thing, though -- even if that is a totally legitimate name in some parts of the world, they admitted it was a placeholder that they left because it made 12 year olds giggle. I'd never let something go for outside playtesting with a placeholder name, and I'd certainly never keep something just because preteens were amused at the lowbrow humor of a scatological reference.

This product, and the D&D game, are supposed to be marketed to a wider audience than preteens. As someone who is supposedly part of the target audience, I want something that caters to more than one demographic.


I'm not African so I can't say much about how accurate or respectful any of this material is personally, but it's notable from a superficial repsect that this is coming off way less respectfully than recent Pathfinder material covering similar areas, such as the recently updated information on the Magaambya from the recent Pathfinder Adventurer's Guide.

Chris Perkins probably needs to go, or at least take a somewhat lesser role in this stuff.

Edited by - Scots Dragon on 21 Jun 2017 22:16:44
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2017 :  23:44:53  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
How about this -

We stop bashing it, but from now on - for the rest of eternity - we all refer to CP as 'Chrissy Pu Pu'.

I think that's a fairly legit deal.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe

Ireland
705 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2017 :  23:49:43  Show Profile Send Shadowsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think what happened was he was watching an episode of Farscape and he remembered Crais was played by Lani Tupu.

Perkins just needs to go.

“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien

*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 22 Jun 2017 :  00:04:17  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Farsacpe - the Scify show with the muppets?

Well, at least one muppet. There was also the ship's navigator... and the Chewbacca-wanna-be (he's probably hiding from RAS).

I liked it, but I think I liked LEX better. They were both on one right after the other. Back when Scify Channel was pretty decent and not full of 'Sharknados'.

The cat-girl was cute. All scify/fantasy series should have at least one cat-girl. It makes it watchable.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11686 Posts

Posted - 22 Jun 2017 :  01:18:30  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Starshade

I might think Wongo is slightly stereotypical and stupid sounding, but I'm just a European who have learned a bit of an African language. It's the native speakers who is a better judge. And to be honest, I'd think the lore, background and making the area interesting is more important than slightly odd names.



Hmmm, being that Ubtao is being linked to Qotal, and Qotal has a monkey god sister (Nula, goddess of animals, but particularly appearing as a monkey), that could have been a better choice if they truly want to call them gods and not great spirits. Personally, I'm seeing these guys as great spirits much like Ulutiu, Uthgar, and Rillifane all have (there's probably some other deities who are represented as multiple beast spirits).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11686 Posts

Posted - 22 Jun 2017 :  01:21:44  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Farsacpe - the Scify show with the muppets?

Well, at least one muppet. There was also the ship's navigator... and the Chewbacca-wanna-be (he's probably hiding from RAS).

I liked it, but I think I liked LEX better. They were both on one right after the other. Back when Scify Channel was pretty decent and not full of 'Sharknados'.

The cat-girl was cute. All scify/fantasy series should have at least one cat-girl. It makes it watchable.



I dunno... I love the magicians (granted there are some campy pieces, but...)... I also like Dark Matter... and I also like Killjoys... now Syfy has some crappy shows too, but it still puts out some decent stuff too.

That being said, yes, I miss Farscape. It was good.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6641 Posts

Posted - 22 Jun 2017 :  04:14:19  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It shows the age-old curse of the time-strapped or lazy design team who borrow real world concepts and bolt them onto a fantasy world as best they can. Chult is Chult. It doesn't have to have anything "African" about it, either in name or theme.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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see
Learned Scribe

235 Posts

Posted - 22 Jun 2017 :  05:29:28  Show Profile Send see a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Personally, I'm seeing these guys as great spirits much like Ulutiu, Uthgar, and Rillifane all have (there's probably some other deities who are represented as multiple beast spirits).


And I still support Beast Cult deities being distinct, non-mainstream deities in accordance with the classic FR model from "Down-to-Earth Divinity" and the Old Gray Box, not subsumed as mere aspects of "real" gods. Sure, that saved space in the F&A series, but it loses important flavor, too. Great White Bear and Clever Oomio the Gray Seal should be mutually hostile, reflecting the natural predation of polar bears on seals, not part of Uluitu's Happy Family. Raven and Black Raven should either be the one raven beast-god, or rivals representing different species of corvid, not each an aspect of a couple gods (Rillifane and Uthgar) that have little to do with each other.

They want to add a bunch more Beast Cults in the new adventure? Great! A return to the classic Realms open-ended diversity of divinity, not a bunch of geographically/racially-bound limited-membership pantheons with Ao stamping permission slips.
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11686 Posts

Posted - 22 Jun 2017 :  13:07:35  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by see

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Personally, I'm seeing these guys as great spirits much like Ulutiu, Uthgar, and Rillifane all have (there's probably some other deities who are represented as multiple beast spirits).


And I still support Beast Cult deities being distinct, non-mainstream deities in accordance with the classic FR model from "Down-to-Earth Divinity" and the Old Gray Box, not subsumed as mere aspects of "real" gods. Sure, that saved space in the F&A series, but it loses important flavor, too. Great White Bear and Clever Oomio the Gray Seal should be mutually hostile, reflecting the natural predation of polar bears on seals, not part of Uluitu's Happy Family. Raven and Black Raven should either be the one raven beast-god, or rivals representing different species of corvid, not each an aspect of a couple gods (Rillifane and Uthgar) that have little to do with each other.

They want to add a bunch more Beast Cults in the new adventure? Great! A return to the classic Realms open-ended diversity of divinity, not a bunch of geographically/racially-bound limited-membership pantheons with Ao stamping permission slips.



While I can agree with this sentiment, there is precedent set. Also, at least in the case of Uthgar and Rillifane, they were separate entities subsumed by another being. In the case of Uthgar, this energy absorption made him what he became. In the case of Rillifane, he basically is answering for them. In many ways, we could say that the Dark Three were trying to follow the same model by taking up the sparks of divinity represented by certain lesser "immortal beings" until they had enough gathered to challenge a greater entity (who simply stepped aside).

Perhaps this is the same thing Ubtao did? Perhaps as a primordial, he wanted to become a god, and in order to do so, he had to absorb some.

By the way, most of the gods that end up like this are portrayed almost like father entities... almost like an Ao to this lesser grouping of gods. In the case of Ulutiu, he was a "father" god much like Annam. In the case of Ubtao, he acts like a father. Uthgar also kind of acts like a father to his chosen people.

One could even say that the elven goddess Angharradh could somewhat fall into this category, though she is more a mother figure. Maztica as well could be similar if we considered her "daughters" to be aspects of herself.

By the way, I find it funny that all these gods we're mentioning have names that start with U (except Rillifane). Its almost like there's a deeper mystery.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 22 Jun 2017 14:01:01
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1621 Posts

Posted - 22 Jun 2017 :  15:37:04  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Scots Dragon

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Wongo seems odd to me, but I'm not familiar enough with African names to be able to say much about it -- I simply don't have enough information to make a call on it.

The Pu'Pu thing, though -- even if that is a totally legitimate name in some parts of the world, they admitted it was a placeholder that they left because it made 12 year olds giggle. I'd never let something go for outside playtesting with a placeholder name, and I'd certainly never keep something just because preteens were amused at the lowbrow humor of a scatological reference.

This product, and the D&D game, are supposed to be marketed to a wider audience than preteens. As someone who is supposedly part of the target audience, I want something that caters to more than one demographic.


I'm not African so I can't say much about how accurate or respectful any of this material is personally, but it's notable from a superficial repsect that this is coming off way less respectfully than recent Pathfinder material covering similar areas, such as the recently updated information on the Magaambya from the recent Pathfinder Adventurer's Guide.

Chris Perkins probably needs to go, or at least take a somewhat lesser role in this stuff.



How do you know Chris Perkins was responsible for that.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 22 Jun 2017 :  17:48:45  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor


How do you know Chris Perkins was responsible for that.



I, personally, have no information on Chris Perkins, so I'm not blaming anything on him. I've not enough info to blame any one person, in this case.

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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
3285 Posts

Posted - 22 Jun 2017 :  18:13:55  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I love the pictures of what looks like "Domesticated T-Rex's" or some other bi-pedaled carnivorous dinosaur that I have been seeing...

Great, now the players will get a bright idea and try to "Domesticate" one of their own. That means HIT POINT sinks and meat shields for the party...

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep

Edited by - Brimstone on 22 Jun 2017 18:16:42
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
3285 Posts

Posted - 22 Jun 2017 :  18:14:50  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Chris Perkins MUST be stopped!!!!

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep

Edited by - Brimstone on 22 Jun 2017 18:15:32
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 22 Jun 2017 :  21:32:43  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That was kind-of along the lines I was thinking when I said we should all refer to him as 'Chrissy Pu Pu'. I can just picture him trying to speak at Gencon and everyone shouting that over him - it would be EPIC!

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

It shows the age-old curse of the time-strapped or lazy design team who borrow real world concepts and bolt them onto a fantasy world as best they can. Chult is Chult. It doesn't have to have anything "African" about it, either in name or theme.

-- George Krashos

Well, to be fair, I'm pretty certain no-one in Africa was ever named 'Nanny Pu Pu'... but you never know.

And Wongo... well.. thats like something out of crappy 50's horror comic about 'escaped killer gorillas'. More 'a white man's idea of African' than anything truly African.

So maybe thats it - FR's 'jungle region' is more like a campy, comic version of Africa, in much the same way that Zakhara ISN'T 'Arabia', but rather, the 'tall tales' version of it. Of course, that means Wongo and Nanny Pu Pu are perfectly fine names. Just stick 'em in a RAS novel and no-one will bat an eye.

Other Things:
And yeah, I miss Farscape as well. I managed to incorporate a wee bit of that into my Post-Apocalyptic Game I'm starting to run (back-story, mostly, merging it with some stuff from Defiance, to explain the non-human races present).

That show also had a catgirl.
Ya' know, I just went to look for pics of the one from Farsacpe, and now that I'm looking at her again, she looks more like a Drow.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 24 Jun 2017 17:23:29
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
4425 Posts

Posted - 22 Jun 2017 :  21:36:28  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
time-strapped or lazy design team who borrow real world concepts and bolt them onto a fantasy world as best they can.


Isn't that the reason we have Mexico-Realms (ala Maztica) and Egypt-Reamls (ala Mulhorand)? Heck the Pantheon is basically pulled straight from Egypt.
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1150 Posts

Posted - 23 Jun 2017 :  09:07:25  Show Profile  Visit hashimashadoo's Homepage Send hashimashadoo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
WizKids released a picture yesterday of their Ras Nsi model.

A yuan-ti covered in bandages.

When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.

Head admin of the FR wiki:

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/
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