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 Wild idea involving Tiamat and how she "works"
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Posted - 08 Jun 2017 :  14:40:49  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
We all know that Tiamat is a bit of a quandary for the realms. Eric Boyd made a good effort towards reconciling the lore back in 2nd edition in P&P I think, and there is nothing wrong with that reconciliation.

However, in talking about deities making multiple aspects of themselves, splitting themselves, going schizophrenic to a degree... what if there are multiple minds (say 5 of them) that can control Tiamat, and there's a constant war for dominance. Then, what if whenever she's "killed" she knows she'll be "reborn", but it gives a new mind a chance to take control. It could be that she's her own worst enemy. Maybe even the version of Tiamat that appeared in Unther and fought Gilgeam (i.e. the dark lady) wasn't necessarily an evil version.

Not sure where to take the concept, but figured I'd throw it out. There are those who have even put out the notion that Shekinester with her five aspects is Tiamat.... which COULD in theory fit with some parallels we see in other god stories.

Asgorath/Asgoroth attacks the ice moon Zotha/crystal sun, touches it with her/his breaths, its kills Asgorath/Asgoroth and the race of red dragons are birthed from the blood. Also, a being known as "the renegade"/"bahmat" arises and creates the metallic dragons. Presumably this is also when Tiamat arises.

Jazirian impregnates Shekinester. Impregnated Shekinester is attacked by Ssharstrune, and Shekinester swallows Ssharstrune. Shekinester is destroyed and becomes split into a goddess with five opposing aspects.

Hmmmm, something else just popped in my head. IF we accept this idea that the Shekinester story and the asgorath story are related.... then was Jazirian just Jazirian at the time, or was Jazirian/Ahriman (aka Asmodeus) still a united being? If so, Asmodeus could be considered a father of Tiamat, which could help explain an aspect of her being in hell.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Realms Explorer extraordinaire

15675 Posts

Posted - 08 Jun 2017 :  19:15:58  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Jazirian wasn't Ahriman - they were two separate, uber-Celestial Dragons (I once dubbed these 'Drakons' to keep them separate from the purely physical, terrestrial variety).

Together, they formed the Ouroboros, which is the 'essence' of the Great Wheel itself. I think after that, both began to 'split', but in different ways. I think Ahriman fragmented (the whole 'World Serpent' thing), and Jazirian created aspects as well, but with a purpose (many of those may have become the first 'gods' as mortals know them - before that, Celestial Beings were of a magnitude quite a bit 'higher'). Jazirian probably placed pieces of itself in likely candidates to further its own agenda, whereas Ariman - being evil and thus motivated by selfishness - would have been quite a bit more haphazard in going about it. Ahriman's one true success might be in placing a piece of its power in Asmodeus (formerly the archangel Lucifer); the rest of the 'scalykind' gods seem to have all faltered and gone comatose.

These first 'New Gods' would have been something different from the later deities, because they weren't necessarily 'born of the prime' as most later deities were. They are probably that group I dub 'High Gods' (who later became many Pantheon Leaders, Like Zeus, Ra, and Odin), who are one step higher than Greater Gods, but not quite Overgods (this would be akin to a 'demigod tier' amongst the overgods - almost, but not quite, there). Loki might even be one - another of Ahriman's 'successes', possibly? Or one of Jazirian's failures?

Either way, the two Supernals (because now I am thinking Jazirian and Ahriman should both be in that 'Group of Eleven' I have at the top of my divine Food Chain) would both be stuck in a somewhat 'comatose state' because of their connected condition (that of the Great Wheel itself). Maybe its because Ahriman tries to still exert influence over its Ubertars that they all seem to fall into that same 'slumber' eventually, but because Jazirian has given it's Manifestations 'free will' (autonomy), they are able to avoid the same fate. Like I said, I think Ahriman's are probably created 'whole cloth' from itself, whereas Jazirian placed its powers inside 'vessels', which is what is allowing for that autonomy and continued functionality.

Tiamat being the half-crazy love-child of the conjoined supernals makes some sense, on a Cosmic scale - I like it. Kind of like how Mystryl was born of Selūne and Shar.

Hmmmmm... maybe Tiamat was supposed to be Mystryl's 'opposite', but the creation of Bahamut threw-off the balance, so Shar had to become the counter-balance to her own prodigy instead.

One child born of one 'axis' (Good & Evil), and the other born from the other alignment axis - Law & Chaos. That might work.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

Edited by - Markustay on 08 Jun 2017 19:22:04
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