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Spectralballoons
Seeker

Pakistan
36 Posts

Posted - 29 May 2017 :  09:04:06  Show Profile Send Spectralballoons a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Idk what you're talking about. All of the recent novels were released in paperback and hardback. It's a good thing that they've made most FRnovels available in the kindle store.
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Spectralballoons
Seeker

Pakistan
36 Posts

Posted - 29 May 2017 :  09:05:13  Show Profile Send Spectralballoons a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If you're tired of them Erin released some books last year.
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3602 Posts

Posted - 29 May 2017 :  09:43:11  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
With regards to Ed saving the realms im not talking about novels. The realms needs a living breathing world to base novels in and at the moment there isnt one. Build tge world first, add the novels later.

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Spectralballoons
Seeker

Pakistan
36 Posts

Posted - 29 May 2017 :  16:41:45  Show Profile Send Spectralballoons a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That's going to be a difficult job.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30431 Posts

Posted - 29 May 2017 :  16:43:16  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Spectralballoons

The novels were definetely not selling well, mainly as a result of the incompetence of WoTC's marketing team. Basically, what happened to dragonalance/greyhawk/mystara/ravenloaft/eberron/spelljammer/planescape/etc novels and other fiction.



Do you have any data at all to back that up?

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Spectralballoons
Seeker

Pakistan
36 Posts

Posted - 29 May 2017 :  18:50:39  Show Profile Send Spectralballoons a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I remember a candlekeep user saying something about amazon sales figures, but I don't have the link with me.

It fits with certain things about their cancellation of the FR line. Historically, this has been the main reason for cancellation of novel lines (Atleast it's what happened to Dragonlance, and for Planescape this combined with a poor reception by the fanbase.), and seems to explain why an author quit due to WoTC not paying well enough - probably, they could not justify paying his desired wages due to low sales figures, and they wouldn't remove the novel line uselessly. Their reluctance in publishing the last Farideh novel also seems to fit with this, as they wouldn't do that if they planned to publish their novels via a different company. Rather, they'd tell the author that it would be published at a later date.

Edited by - Spectralballoons on 29 May 2017 18:54:53
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30431 Posts

Posted - 30 May 2017 :  00:44:53  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That doesn't take into account, though, the fact that WotC is well-known for making very poor decisions, and that they've had issues with paying writers fairly for years, going back to when the novel line was going very strong.

WotC is also known for changing plans without telling anyone.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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Mirtek
Senior Scribe

512 Posts

Posted - 30 May 2017 :  05:09:46  Show Profile Send Mirtek a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Spectralballoons

The novels were definetely not selling well, mainly as a result of the incompetence of WoTC's marketing team. Basically, what happened to dragonalance/greyhawk/mystara/ravenloaft/eberron/spelljammer/planescape/etc novels and other fiction.



Do you have any data at all to back that up?

Hard data is hard to come by (no pun intended).

Someone once did some extrapolation based on Amazon ranking and came to the conclusion that the Brimstone novels were selling less than one book a day on Amazon. Certainly not hard data, but evidence in the right direction maybe?

Seems that if you're not Salvatore, your FR books won't sell big numbers.

Personally I hope that WotC at least will release The Devil You Know as a paperback, so that I can complete my physical collection before having to turn the lights off
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Caolin
Senior Scribe

663 Posts

Posted - 31 May 2017 :  17:34:16  Show Profile Send Caolin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

I suspect the novels are not selling well because they're stupid eBooks. Not real books, although they cost the same. Locked tight, controlled, and full of DRM.


Ummm, what? They still sold printed novels. I'm actually trying to think of any novels they published that were eBook only.....it might have been what? One or two?

Either way, 99% of Realms novels publish were also sold in print form.
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Caolin
Senior Scribe

663 Posts

Posted - 31 May 2017 :  17:41:42  Show Profile Send Caolin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

With regards to Ed saving the realms im not talking about novels. The realms needs a living breathing world to base novels in and at the moment there isnt one. Build tge world first, add the novels later.



No, this isn't true at all. It only requires a handful of dedicated and talented writers to produce entertaining novels. The world has been developed for over 30 years. There is more than enough material to base new stories on AND to game in as well!

What is really lacking here is money. The owner of the IP has decided that it's not worth their time to devote resources into the novel line.

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Mirtek
Senior Scribe

512 Posts

Posted - 31 May 2017 :  17:50:50  Show Profile Send Mirtek a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Caolin

I'm actually trying to think of any novels they published that were eBook only.....it might have been what? One or two?


6 (if you want to count Cold Steel and Secrets as 4 novels, the total increases to 9)

Shadowbane
Shadowbane: Eye of Justice
Prince of Ravens
Sword of the Gods: Spinner of Lies
Spider and Stone
Cold Steel and Secrets

quote:
Originally posted by Caolin

Either way, 99% of Realms novels publish were also sold in print form.


98% if counting CSaS a one novel,
97% if counting CSaS as four novels



Edited by - Mirtek on 31 May 2017 17:55:24
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Caolin
Senior Scribe

663 Posts

Posted - 31 May 2017 :  19:19:06  Show Profile Send Caolin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek

quote:
Originally posted by Caolin

I'm actually trying to think of any novels they published that were eBook only.....it might have been what? One or two?


6 (if you want to count Cold Steel and Secrets as 4 novels, the total increases to 9)

Shadowbane
Shadowbane: Eye of Justice
Prince of Ravens
Sword of the Gods: Spinner of Lies
Spider and Stone
Cold Steel and Secrets

quote:
Originally posted by Caolin

Either way, 99% of Realms novels publish were also sold in print form.


98% if counting CSaS a one novel,
97% if counting CSaS as four novels






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Mirtek
Senior Scribe

512 Posts

Posted - 31 May 2017 :  20:01:25  Show Profile Send Mirtek a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Caolin

quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek

quote:
Originally posted by Caolin

I'm actually trying to think of any novels they published that were eBook only.....it might have been what? One or two?


6 (if you want to count Cold Steel and Secrets as 4 novels, the total increases to 9)

Shadowbane
Shadowbane: Eye of Justice
Prince of Ravens
Sword of the Gods: Spinner of Lies
Spider and Stone
Cold Steel and Secrets

quote:
Originally posted by Caolin

Either way, 99% of Realms novels publish were also sold in print form.


98% if counting CSaS a one novel,
97% if counting CSaS as four novels








Finally my list of published FR novels was useful for something beyond keeping track of what I had yet to read/buy.

Just remembered, I also included the Double Diamond Triangle Saga as 9 novels, depending on whether you count them as 9, 1 or don't count them at all it changes the results ever so slightly :)

Edited by - Mirtek on 31 May 2017 20:02:26
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1180 Posts

Posted - 02 Jun 2017 :  15:14:38  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers

If i'm understanding you guys correctly, you're saying that the Spellplague killed the fiction and the setting, and there was no fix possible. That's a depressing perspective, but that doesn't mean you might not be right. I guess it doesn't matter anyway now that WotC has pulled the plug.



I don't agree with them, I like the 5e realms, I just wish they'd put out a 5e FRCG.

See they built all this excitement for the Sundering, and then barely did anything with it, the Sundering series, a few books by Bob, Erin, Ed, after the Sundering series, a some adventure paths, and the SCAG.

I don't even count Volo's Guide to Monsters as a realms book as it has so little realms content, with Volo himself just adding some posted notes, that I feel that titlecis almost fraudulent.

I think they were barely able to support the setting because they barely had any staff, its why they are tossing the new Mystic and Artificer classes on DMGuild so players while do some of the work of developing the classes, they no longer have the staff to do it.

5e had so much potential as did the Sundering, but its been starved for resources by the bosses, even though the few 5e books they have are best sellers, its not that the books don't sell, including novels, its that D&D is just a shell they keep around in the hopes of getting movie deals.

I wish Piazo or TEGG would make an offer buy the novel and table top rights from Hasbro.
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Seravin
Senior Scribe

Canada
795 Posts

Posted - 02 Jun 2017 :  18:49:31  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's so depressing. We were so spoiled in first and second edition drowning in lore with things like the amazing Volo's Guides and now we are in a desert that looks like we'll never get out of...

Edited by - Seravin on 04 Jun 2017 19:27:53
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1180 Posts

Posted - 02 Jun 2017 :  19:41:00  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin

It's so depressing. We wee so spoiled in first an second edition drowning in lore with things like the amazing Volo's Guides and now we are in a desert that looks like we'll never get out of...



Yep, it's frustrating and depressing.
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe

738 Posts

Posted - 05 Jun 2017 :  01:09:52  Show Profile Send Eltheron a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What about Ed's group? Wasn't there something about how Ed was gathering a group of Realms authors and experts to put together small articles on lore and things? I've been away from playing for about a year, but didn't they have something planned for releasing on their site? Or for sale?

"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe

Canada
801 Posts

Posted - 05 Jun 2017 :  15:15:09  Show Profile Send Firestorm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Spectralballoons

The novels were definetely not selling well, mainly as a result of the incompetence of WoTC's marketing team. Basically, what happened to dragonalance/greyhawk/mystara/ravenloaft/eberron/spelljammer/planescape/etc novels and other fiction.



Do you have any data at all to back that up?

Hard data is hard to come by (no pun intended).

Someone once did some extrapolation based on Amazon ranking and came to the conclusion that the Brimstone novels were selling less than one book a day on Amazon. Certainly not hard data, but evidence in the right direction maybe?

Seems that if you're not Salvatore, your FR books won't sell big numbers.

Personally I hope that WotC at least will release The Devil You Know as a paperback, so that I can complete my physical collection before having to turn the lights off



I could give you numbers for all chapters branches in Canada from about 6-7 years ago. The problem is, that's only Canada.
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2059 Posts

Posted - 05 Jun 2017 :  19:58:50  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
While manga (Japanese graphic novels) is an obsession of mine, I have never been that in to "American" comics, if you will. I wasn't a huge fan of the Cutter comics, but I read them because of the tie-in. I may have to break down and get the comics if it's the only "literature" being provided. Hmmm...

Sweet water and light laughter
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KraziJoe
Acolyte

9 Posts

Posted - 08 Jun 2017 :  21:59:39  Show Profile Send KraziJoe a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Personally, they started losing me at the Spell Plague. I prefer to know why things changed and they alluded to what happened, but they felt they didn't need to do more. It's like it because Toril-2. Same people but new powersets etc. Then BAM the Sundering happened trying to revert all they did back to what it was. Now we have nothing...I don't play much D&D so I get my fix through the novels...Not so much anymore...So I am pretty much at a loss as to what is going on.
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2059 Posts

Posted - 08 Jun 2017 :  22:03:08  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't play much, either. I primarily read the novels, though I will buy sourcebooks to stay up to date on lore and such. The novels have unfortunately taken a back seat, because they don't bring in as much revenue, and many gamers today want to see gaming products.

Sweet water and light laughter
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DiscerningDM
Acolyte

USA
6 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2017 :  19:39:21  Show Profile  Visit DiscerningDM's Homepage Send DiscerningDM a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It would be a mistake to ignore the D&D team's business model as it evolves, and that it's been a massive success for the game, the hobby, and the Realms. The Realms are best served by a thriving IP holder, producing popular and financially successful realms books.

Initially for 5e, they were at 2 books a year, adventures only, and now we are at 2 adventures a year, plus a lore book. We are seeing increased tempo of game and hobby releases from wotc. The last two FR adventures, specially Storm King's Thunder, contained a lot of delicious lore, and the SCAG went a lot farther than the sword coast.

As wotc tests what the market will bear, I hope the novels come back as well.
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2739 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2017 :  19:54:54  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KraziJoe

Personally, they started losing me at the Spell Plague. I prefer to know why things changed and they alluded to what happened, but they felt they didn't need to do more. It's like it because Toril-2. Same people but new powersets etc. Then BAM the Sundering happened trying to revert all they did back to what it was. Now we have nothing...I don't play much D&D so I get my fix through the novels...Not so much anymore...So I am pretty much at a loss as to what is going on.



Well, there's not much to understand about what's going on, as most events were just engineered to revert some of the 3e and 4e changes. They pressed the rest button. Ao quite literally did that. A lot was undone, some authors gave explanations (or at least confirmations) of what and who was back. Everything concerning the gods is back to pre ToT, with the exception that "new deities" like Cyric are still there. As for NPCs, many surived or were resurrected, others were left in the dust (it seemed rather arbitray to me, tbh), while most of the new ones remained. All the Shades are gone as well (although some low ranking ones do remain). As for the lands, everything is mostly back to how it was before the end of 3e, with the exception that the Dragonborn still hold some land (and some elves have decided to remain in the fallen Myth Drannor with the Tree of Souls). That's it. Perhaps this might help:http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Second_Sundering

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/
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CylverSaber
Learned Scribe

76 Posts

Posted - 28 Jun 2017 :  04:32:58  Show Profile  Visit CylverSaber's Homepage Send CylverSaber a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think we've got to stop the denial (Ed is guaranteed a novel a year, it's only a temporary hiatus, WotC would never give up such a profitable venture, they're just waiting to license the novels, etc) and admit what's been obvious for some time now; they have no plans to bring back the novels.

The only way that has even a chance of changing is if fans mobilize, start writing letters, circulating petitions, launching social media campaigns, being vocal at conventions, and so forth.

Or we could say "Nah, it won't make any difference" and do nothing at all. That's an option too.
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6451 Posts

Posted - 28 Jun 2017 :  08:07:33  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CylverSaber

The only way that has even a chance of changing is if fans mobilize, start writing letters, circulating petitions, launching social media campaigns, being vocal at conventions, and so forth.

Or we could say "Nah, it won't make any difference" and do nothing at all. That's an option too.

WotC once had a thriving forum filled with such letters and petitions and campaigns, most fizzled but some had traction and sporadically gained great momentum. A few of these had explicit (if not active) support from recognized FR authors.

But no novels.

The second approach is far more popular. WotC has demonstrated that it doesn't care, so - increasingly - WotC's fans demonstrate that they don't care.

Still no novels.

I've seen (and even read) a few unofficial FR novels online. An odd and even mix ...
Some people (fans) write utter trash and try to pass it off as published FR canon. One novel reappears over and over again almost seasonally. One author keeps appending his awful novel onto wiki lists of published FR novels, along with links to his site (where you can purchase the full ebook version).
Other people (fans) genuinely attempt to write a real bona-fide genuine Realms novel (or three). Some attempts are poor, most are good, a couple have been exceptional (on par with the better end of published Realms novels).

I used to rat these folks out. But "Nah, Wizbro can do their own dirty work". Perhaps that alone is a sad commentary: the learned apathy of a cynical fan, unwilling to lift a finger for Wizbro's Realms.

[/Ayrik]
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