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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5475 Posts

Posted - 06 Apr 2017 :  18:59:00  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
I'm throwing out some of the ideas I've been thinking about over the last year or so to see what sparks. I know that many of us are interested in the Old Empires region and what happens to it after the spellplague. I figured I'd throw out some things and see what floats and what doesn't. I know this may upset some and titillate others. For instance,

In my viewpoint, the following all were copied and/or moved over to Abeir. Note that I said copied and/or moved over. That's because I don't think the spellplague was all that uniform in how it handled things. Much as how Ravenloft can copy a realm and leave the original intact, I think that happened in parts of the Old Empires. However, they then "dropped" portions of copied Abeir over. Thus why we have ruins of certain cities (which if a serious study were done of these ruins by those who had known the places extremely well, they might have noticed portions were entirely gone). Other places were copied over with nothing being dropped in their place over here.



So, what types of things am I proposing here?

1st) Places copied over / phased Abeir to here

From Chessenta
Cimbar (including the red wizard enclave), Soorenar, (along with the Tower Terrible of Velsharoon and the red wizard enclave), Airspur (the original, not the Akanul city that replaced it), Akanax, Reth (replaced by Brassune), portions of the surrounding territories including the Akanamere and the Akanapeaks

From Chondath
Hlath (replaced by New Breen) and the Nunwoods (including the red wizard enclave)

Proposed changes while in Abeir:

Hlath, Reth, Airspur, and Akanax are all lost to the kingdom of Shyr while in Abeir. The Nunwood was decimated by the The cities of Cimbar and Soorenar sending people over to log the timber and using the red wizards' enclave portal in Hlath to transport the goods back to Cimbar and Soorenar. The survivors of these 4 cities retreat to Cimbar and Soorenar, which become the surviving city states. When knowledge of a large portion of the Shaar also transferring becomes known, the clone of Zulkir (make you guess) which was awakened by the avatar of Velsharoon inhabiting the body of his daughter Mimuay establishes a portal to the cliffside ancient city of Peleveran. Eventually, the Tharch of Peleveran is established consisting of subterannean and above ground structures in the transferred section of the Shaar.
Proposed changes upon return to Toril:
We have from the SCAG that much of Akanul managed to stay, so only have Cimbar and Soorenar return. However, also have a portion of Shyr (including the primordial Karshimis and the Citadel of Burning Ice) also transfer (much to the chagrin of the genasi of Akanul). This section of Shyr that transfers is in southeastern Chessenta, we call the "Red Mineral Forest of Shyr" and its trees have leaves that are leaf shaped crystals, which have various arcane and/or mundane uses that we describe (and also include some trees similar to the village of Firetrees, just to hint at some linkage).

2nd) Places copied over with very little "phasing" or major changes
Here, I'm picturing that where the shaar was in Abeir was nothing but a huge empty rift. That rift became the "Underchasm". The Shaar in essence copied over into a big empty space and filled it in in Abeir. Correspondingly, on the Toril side, the Shaar disappeared, and there was some collapsing as a result of pieces missing, but the people of Toril simply misunderstood what had actually happened.

For Mulhorand, I'm picturing their cities copying over and many of their people moving over. In addition, the section from Messemprar northward into Threskel containing the peninsula with Mourktar and the ship of the gods island displace a section of water that was in Abeir (this water goes to Toril actually). They're still strong, and they come to an alliance with Shyr.
Proposed changes while in Abeir:
As stated above, there are red wizard enclaves in nearly ever Chessentan / Chondathan city transferred. In addition, there USED to be enclaves in both Messemprar and Mourktar. The red wizards actually adopt many Mulan people from Chessenta and Unther and build a new society down in the Shaar. This society is strong in cavalry due to some Crintri who are also separated from their homeland (they were herding horses in the Shaar when it transferred) as well as some Tuigan mercenaries which had been hired in the Thayan enclave of Kourmira to aid in the Thayan civil war and were preparing in the enclave of Cimbar.

This "Tharch of Peleveran" society is specifically allied against Shyr, and they even gain many genasi as citizens who support working against their Primordial Overlord. They do not make war on Shyr, but they do employ spies and enchantment/illusion magics to make the enemy expend their strengths against themselves. They believe in "not expending their own strength, but rather making the enemy expend theirs". Shyr is also busy working against "the Son of Victory" who purports to be a reborn Gilgeam.

The Tharch of Peleveran, while having a fire focus, takes on a more broad elemental perspective. Have a bit of Asian Monk/Zakharan/Avatar airbender vibe happening. It will also have a lot of humanoids like Thay did, specifically wemics, centaurs, hybsils, and gnolls. Also, the Rashemi of Thay will be replaced by some of the Arkaiuns of the Shaar and warriors of Chessenta.

It should be noted, I intend to use the Tharch of Peleveran as one of many Tharchs across Toril (including the Tharchs of Balduran Bay, Esh Alakar, Lopango Jungles, Western Pridelands of Katashaka, New Eltabbar in Eastern Katashaka, Luneira (aka Doubloon enclave), and Oslander Islands). Therefore a lot of what they need to build will come from these other areas (such as lots of timber and stone), and a decent amount of the Shaar will now be lush farmland. While its area will be vast, its population will not be huge.
Proposed changes after returning to Toril:

The people of High Imaskar are forced out of Mulhorand. While many flee to the Raurin, the people of the "Tharch of Peleveran" see these Imaskari as mages similar to themselves when they rose up against the Mulhorandi. They tentatively accept many of these refugees into their society so long as they will follow the laws of the Tharch of Peleveran.


2nd) copied over / nothing from Abeir came here
Mulhorand - this resulted in many of the Mulhorandi people disappearing to Abeir with all their infrastructure still in place

Large portions of Eastern Threskel and former Northern Unther, including Mourktar and Messemprar

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Zeromaru X
Learned Scribe

Colombia
334 Posts

Posted - 09 Apr 2017 :  10:38:15  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

I'm throwing out some of the ideas I've been thinking about over the last year or so to see what sparks. I know that many of us are interested in the Old Empires region and what happens to it after the spellplague. I figured I'd throw out some things and see what floats and what doesn't. I know this may upset some and titillate others.


I have shamelessly stolen many of your ideas for my map (90% done), so count me in!

quote:
In my viewpoint, the following all were copied and/or moved over to Abeir. Note that I said copied and/or moved over. That's because I don't think the spellplague was all that uniform in how it handled things. Much as how Ravenloft can copy a realm and leave the original intact, I think that happened in parts of the Old Empires.


We can use this to explain why Unther returned when it was literally obliterated by Tymanchebar. What returned in the Sundering 2.0 was "copy" Unther. The original one was destroyed in the Spellplague.

quote:

However, also have a portion of Shyr (including the primordial Karshimis and the Citadel of Burning Ice) also transfer (much to the chagrin of the genasi of Akanul).


There quite a lot of power struggle in the current Old Empires to bring up another would-be conqueror. And also, there is Entropy as a primordial to deal with.

Personally, I would left Karshimis in Abeir.

quote:

Threskel containing the peninsula with Mourktar


Mourktar still existed in the post-Spellplague realms as per the Brotherhood of the Griffon novels. Yeah, I guess the 4e map is not compatible with lore (I know Markustay mentioned something about those maps being inspirational rather than exact).

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13608 Posts

Posted - 09 Apr 2017 :  20:19:14  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You guys have started to get me interested in a region I shouldn't even be looking at right now.

I really like the map,ZeromaruX - I only took a quick glance (have to run out again - warm weather is my busy season). The main thing I noticed was how you connected it to Brightstar Lake, which is something I've been working on myself. In another 'What If..." map I did, I had parts of the Quoya fill-in with sea water and link to KT's river system, and then I had the Emperor (Tan Chin residing inside one of his living descendants) build a new canal to Brightstar Lake so that Shou ships can now make it all the way to The SoFS (without having to use that sea-gate in the Dragonmere, which I always felt was 'off' - Cormyr should have seized their end). Shou Lung already has several large canals, so thats 'their thing', so it isn't too far a stretch. All of that can still work with your map there (the rapids in the river Rauthenflow were leveled by the time of 3e anyway).

My only 'problem' with all of this is that from all I've heard (including one 'behind the curtain' person who first told me like three years ago), ALL the terrain/geography is going to return to the way it was in 1e/2e, even if it makes no sense at all (Overpower hand-wave). They haven't shown us this region yet, and it would be nice if they did something. I mean, i can understand their reluctance to steer away from making ANY changes to the beloved Heartlands in any discernible way (once again, whether that makes sense or not), but this region - the Old Empires - even the die-hard fans have been asking for an overhaul for a really long time (even before 4e reared its attractively-challenged head). I personally would have loved seeing a 'Tomb Kings' thing a'la Warhammer for Mulhorand, but we already have Lich-stuff ad nauseam everywhere else, and that might actually make a better fit in the Desert of Desolation (lower Raurin).

The Shaar is a great place to dump any leftover Abeir stuff, since the whole reason why they nuked it backed in 3e was because it was 'too empty'. now that they've realized making the world smaller wasn't the answer, maybe they'll do what they should have done since the beginning - fill that baby up with kewl stuff (maybe use Paizo's approach, and do a AP in the region, just to 'test the waters'. going their by ship is really interesting IMO, but for the 'lazy DMs', they could just say there's a portal somewhere (there's ALWAYS a portal somewhere...)

Murghom can be reflavored as the 'New Mulhorand', since their old lands are pretty blasted on your map there. Maybe jst refer to that region as "The Imaskar Wastes" or some-such (turn those 'Deep Imaskari' (just *YUCK*) into something along the lines of those human survivors in the original Planet of the Apes movies, except instead of being warped by nuclear radiation, they could have been warped by magical radiation (wild magic surges, etc). Have them underground, wearing heavy covering, fearing sunlight (it has some adverse affect on them), etc... but then again, Mayber that works better for the Shades. Just turn the Imaskari Wastes into an FR version of Dark Sun (bizarre critters and magically dead terrain, etc). That could work. Then flavor the remaining Imaskari (if any) reclusive Magi living in hidden enclaves, practicing all sorts of 'forbidden magic'. LOL

Oh, and steal Eberron's raptor-riding Halflings for the Shaar. Screw Eberron... its our turn to shine (again).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 09 Apr 2017 20:19:31
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Ari
Seeker

40 Posts

Posted - 09 Apr 2017 :  20:47:30  Show Profile Send Ari a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Worst thing they ever did to Chessenta and Mulhorandi was just blindly going along with making them Not!Greco-Romans and Not!Egyptsmans. The Unapproachable East book for 3e had a great example of invoking a multi-cultural "decadent imperial" style in its illustration of the Simbul's Mulan-built palace in Aglarond. All rounded spires and oppressive domes that look like a mix between Classical Roman and Byzantine Roman styles.

Unther at least has the excuse that Fertile Crescent nations aren't done to death these days. But even then it sounds more like something from Hindu myth with series of divine avatars descending to rule the world. The place should be choked with the great works and half-finished superstructures of each monstrous god-made-flesh, cyclopean things that generations struggled to build.

Mulhorandi by contrast is austerity itself, dry and refined to paper-thin brittleness, ritual and religious habit making every casual exchange stilted and full of hollow invocations to the gods who are always listening. The power struggles of the pantheon making their priests some of the best on Earth at switching allegiance and doctrine in a matter of days, scrubbing their ruthlessly-measured temples clean of names that are the weekly anathema.

There was a reason the Red Wizards fought and fight so hard to escape their home's power. Could easily tie into their Bad Guy standard use of undead. In Mulhorandi the preist caste decides if you're done serving the Great House, in Thay the "common" mages have that power.

Basically making them direct analogues to real civilizations makes them less interesting, not more.
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Zeromaru X
Learned Scribe

Colombia
334 Posts

Posted - 09 Apr 2017 :  22:14:29  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

You guys have started to get me interested in a region I shouldn't even be looking at right now.


Yeah, I can relate. I was about to give up and settle down in the Sword Coast, when someone pointed me out to an "evil" book called Old Empires...

I'm even tempted to copy George Krashos' idea and make a document with a timeline of the region (much like his High History of Impiltur supplement).

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I really like the map,ZeromaruX - I only took a quick glance (have to run out again - warm weather is my busy season). The main thing I noticed was how you connected it to Brightstar Lake, which is something I've been working on myself.


Well, the team that worked on the Realms in 4e did that, really.

What I was been doing was to try to blend both, the 3.x and 4e maps into a logical new one. The real problem was the 4e map. Its locations are... weird, when compared with the 3.x map (or Brian R. James' map of 4e Chessenta, that I found in Dungeon 178). But then I remembered what you said about 4e maps being more "inspirational" than accurate. Now, I'm giving more priority to the 3.x map, at least to define geographical land forms.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

My only 'problem' with all of this is that from all I've heard (including one 'behind the curtain' person who first told me like three years ago), ALL the terrain/geography is going to return to the way it was in 1e/2e, even if it makes no sense at all (Overpower hand-wave).


I suspected this when I saw the Faerûn map in the SCAG. But, until they release something about the Old Empires (an unlikely event, since is a place way beyond the Sword Coast), I guess my map will be a logical mix of stuff of all the geographical upheavals that have rocket the region since 2e.

It would be a really good idea if they release a fully detailed map of all Faerûn, even if they never abandon the Sword Coast area. It would make our DMing easier.

One can dream, right?

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The Shaar is a great place to dump any leftover Abeir.

Oh, and steal Eberron's raptor-riding Halflings for the Shaar. Screw Eberron... its our turn to shine (again).


Yeah, I was thinking something like that. If we go by canon only, Grumbar only filled up the Underchasm with rocks, so, the place (in canon) is just a vast plain of rocks and nothingness for miles around... this is plain boring. So, putting abeiran stuff here and there, will make this place a useful place. Think in the possibilities!!

I'm going to steal all of your and sleyvas' ideas about red forests and that stuff. And halflings with raptors, yeah. The place need something like that.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Murghom can be reflavored as the 'New Mulhorand', since their old lands are pretty blasted on your map there.


The issue with this is that SCAG mentions the "land of Murghôm near Thay, where dragon princes have ruled for the last eighty years."

This mean that the status of Murghôm in 5e is basically the same as it was in 4e.

quote:
Originally posted by Ari

Worst thing they ever did to Chessenta and Mulhorandi was just blindly going along with making them Not!Greco-Romans and Not!Egyptsmans. The Unapproachable East book for 3e had a great example of invoking a multi-cultural "decadent imperial" style in its illustration of the Simbul's Mulan-built palace in Aglarond. All rounded spires and oppressive domes that look like a mix between Classical Roman and Byzantine Roman styles.

Basically making them direct analogues to real civilizations makes them less interesting, not more.



I would be lying if I said that I didn't think the same at some point, when I read the 3.x FR Campaign Setting. Those lands (and others, like Maztica) are way too much a copy-pasted version of real world lands (heck, the local gods are basically the same from real life, with just another name...).

But, them 4e came a blew up those lands, and it was a blessing, even if people dislike 4e. Because, now that those nations returned in 5e, there is no logical way that they remained the same (unless you want to do an epic hand-wave just because). Now, we have a lot of canon ways to incorporate new things to the region. Abeiran lands and peoples, 100 years of changes, and that stuff. Mix that with the original, copy-pasted real world stuff, and we got a new, more fantastic, yet familiar place, and thus making the Old Empires a more interesting place to play.

Is because of this potential, that this place is becoming more attractive to me the more I read about it.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 09 Apr 2017 22:20:05
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13608 Posts

Posted - 10 Apr 2017 :  01:15:36  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here's the main problem with thatregion, as I see it - we got stuck with TWO Egypts and TWO Persia, and two Egypts are in the middle of the other two, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Unther, Mulhoran, Murghôm, & Semphar, going west-to-east - we need to get rid of the doubles, at the very least. I personally feel Semphar does a better job as Persia that Unther did (and YES, I get that Unther is an OLDER Persia - Sumaeria and Babylon combined, but our modern perspective, it all 'smells the same').

And we aren't even touching on the fact we have sultans and such in at least 5 other canon regions.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 10 Apr 2017 01:16:06
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4834 Posts

Posted - 10 Apr 2017 :  01:50:13  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You have to try steer away from the obvious Earth analogues and think up stuff that is uniquely Realmsian about all of those places. In my experience, when you do that, it's amazing how it all falls together. It's certainly more difficult design-wise, but the result is well worth it. Zeromaru is right re the "return" being a good opportunity to make things different. Perhaps the easiest start is to stop using terms like "sultan", "pharaoh" etc and make up some Realms equivalents.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5475 Posts

Posted - 10 Apr 2017 :  14:33:35  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

I'm throwing out some of the ideas I've been thinking about over the last year or so to see what sparks. I know that many of us are interested in the Old Empires region and what happens to it after the spellplague. I figured I'd throw out some things and see what floats and what doesn't. I know this may upset some and titillate others.


I have shamelessly stolen many of your ideas for my map (90% done), so count me in!

quote:
In my viewpoint, the following all were copied and/or moved over to Abeir. Note that I said copied and/or moved over. That's because I don't think the spellplague was all that uniform in how it handled things. Much as how Ravenloft can copy a realm and leave the original intact, I think that happened in parts of the Old Empires.


We can use this to explain why Unther returned when it was literally obliterated by Tymanchebar. What returned in the Sundering 2.0 was "copy" Unther. The original one was destroyed in the Spellplague.

quote:

However, also have a portion of Shyr (including the primordial Karshimis and the Citadel of Burning Ice) also transfer (much to the chagrin of the genasi of Akanul).


There quite a lot of power struggle in the current Old Empires to bring up another would-be conqueror. And also, there is Entropy as a primordial to deal with.

Personally, I would left Karshimis in Abeir.

quote:

Threskel containing the peninsula with Mourktar


Mourktar still existed in the post-Spellplague realms as per the Brotherhood of the Griffon novels. Yeah, I guess the 4e map is not compatible with lore (I know Markustay mentioned something about those maps being inspirational rather than exact).



Shamelessly stealing is fine by me. My hope is to come up with something that people will both like, and that leads to some acceptance of the ideas I'm literally throwing together haphazardly for the United Tharchs of Toril. The tharch of Peleveran will be the main area that touches Faerun where these red wizards will be involved, so while I've spent a lot more time thinking about other areas, I'm realizing I really need to put some "work" into this area to make it pop.

The copied over mineral forest of shyr was more to copy over a somewhat "unique area" to Chessenta. Oh, and the place its replacing is actually the "maw of entropy" area that entropy had destroyed in chessenta... so I'm kind of going with "there was a void so a copy of Abeir came over to fill it".

Now, I did play with the idea of Karshimis coming over or not. I'm actually easy to convince to leave him over there (um... he wasn't in his castle at the time.... nature called and he was sitting on the toilet creating volcanic excrement in the corner... over in "that direction" off in Abeir). What I'm looking to have is this land with "red" dirt... pretty looking thin leaves that are made of crystal (and maybe they glow in the dark like solar lights??)... and throw some inhabitants of Abeir in it... maybe genasi, or maybe this is Karshimis' private hunting woods and its full of nasty monsters... and the Citadel of burning fire and ice becomes some place for adventurers to invade.

On the entropy thing, I'm actually of the mind that Ao "cages" him again. But maybe instead of Luthcheq, he exists now in the "red mineral forest of Shyr"... maybe we throw some cultists in the area.

On the Mourktar thing... hmmm, I'm still gonna go with it moved. There's a HUGE swathe of the area that's gone, because Mourktar was actually out further into the Alamber than Messemprar was. If there was a Mourktar in the brotherhood of the griffin novel, I'd probably explain it away as a new city built by folk who maybe survived the transfer because they were on a boat that didn't go over, etc.... (which, if not a pain to find, can you tell me where that is in it? I know they mentioned Threskel, but there's some other cities up there... more curious than anything)

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Zeromaru X
Learned Scribe

Colombia
334 Posts

Posted - 10 Apr 2017 :  14:50:31  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ulraes mentions, really disappointed, that now that Threskel was part of Chessenta, the Brotherhood cannot invade and sack neither Mordulkin and Mourktar. This is mentioned in chapter fourteen of Whisper of Venom (second novel).

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5475 Posts

Posted - 10 Apr 2017 :  15:34:29  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

You guys have started to get me interested in a region I shouldn't even be looking at right now.

I really like the map,ZeromaruX - I only took a quick glance (have to run out again - warm weather is my busy season). The main thing I noticed was how you connected it to Brightstar Lake, which is something I've been working on myself. In another 'What If..." map I did, I had parts of the Quoya fill-in with sea water and link to KT's river system, and then I had the Emperor (Tan Chin residing inside one of his living descendants) build a new canal to Brightstar Lake so that Shou ships can now make it all the way to The SoFS (without having to use that sea-gate in the Dragonmere, which I always felt was 'off' - Cormyr should have seized their end). Shou Lung already has several large canals, so thats 'their thing', so it isn't too far a stretch. All of that can still work with your map there (the rapids in the river Rauthenflow were leveled by the time of 3e anyway).

My only 'problem' with all of this is that from all I've heard (including one 'behind the curtain' person who first told me like three years ago), ALL the terrain/geography is going to return to the way it was in 1e/2e, even if it makes no sense at all (Overpower hand-wave). They haven't shown us this region yet, and it would be nice if they did something. I mean, i can understand their reluctance to steer away from making ANY changes to the beloved Heartlands in any discernible way (once again, whether that makes sense or not), but this region - the Old Empires - even the die-hard fans have been asking for an overhaul for a really long time (even before 4e reared its attractively-challenged head). I personally would have loved seeing a 'Tomb Kings' thing a'la Warhammer for Mulhorand, but we already have Lich-stuff ad nauseam everywhere else, and that might actually make a better fit in the Desert of Desolation (lower Raurin).

The Shaar is a great place to dump any leftover Abeir stuff, since the whole reason why they nuked it backed in 3e was because it was 'too empty'. now that they've realized making the world smaller wasn't the answer, maybe they'll do what they should have done since the beginning - fill that baby up with kewl stuff (maybe use Paizo's approach, and do a AP in the region, just to 'test the waters'. going their by ship is really interesting IMO, but for the 'lazy DMs', they could just say there's a portal somewhere (there's ALWAYS a portal somewhere...)

Murghom can be reflavored as the 'New Mulhorand', since their old lands are pretty blasted on your map there. Maybe jst refer to that region as "The Imaskar Wastes" or some-such (turn those 'Deep Imaskari' (just *YUCK*) into something along the lines of those human survivors in the original Planet of the Apes movies, except instead of being warped by nuclear radiation, they could have been warped by magical radiation (wild magic surges, etc). Have them underground, wearing heavy covering, fearing sunlight (it has some adverse affect on them), etc... but then again, Mayber that works better for the Shades. Just turn the Imaskari Wastes into an FR version of Dark Sun (bizarre critters and magically dead terrain, etc). That could work. Then flavor the remaining Imaskari (if any) reclusive Magi living in hidden enclaves, practicing all sorts of 'forbidden magic'. LOL

Oh, and steal Eberron's raptor-riding Halflings for the Shaar. Screw Eberron... its our turn to shine (again).



Interested to see this map. Where is it?

On the "the map will be the 1e/2e map"... so far, I'm kind of sticking by that rule, except this red mineral forest area filling the part entropy destroyed... which actually was in this southern chessenta area that had pretty much jack nothing anyway.

Don't steal the raptor-riding for the Shaar. Stick it in the jungles of Katashaka and maybe the Lopango... maybe have some exported to Laerakond and Chult.... oh, and over in the Malatra area too since apparently it has dinosaurs too.


Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Zeromaru X
Learned Scribe

Colombia
334 Posts

Posted - 10 Apr 2017 :  15:41:48  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The map is here: http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21642

I made two, a canon one and my personal one.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5475 Posts

Posted - 10 Apr 2017 :  16:24:57  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

Ulraes mentions, really disappointed, that now that Threskel was part of Chessenta, the Brotherhood cannot invade and sack neither Mordulkin and Mourktar. This is mentioned in chapter fourteen of Whisper of Venom (second novel).



Thank you. I'm gonna look at that in a bit.

That being said, the brotherhood of the griffin series has several references that are incorrect. For instance, he has not one but several mentions of the burning brazier temple of Kossuth in the first book, unclean, and in each instance he states that its in Eltabbar. This is a big flaw, since the founding of this temple was in Bezantur, and it was founded there because Bezantur was once Kensten when it was part of Raumathar. This is THE place where Kossuth was summoned at the end of the Raumathari empire. So relocating it way to the north doesn't fit with the actual lore that has been around since the temple's creation. So, I guess what I'm saying is that I'd either go with Aoth was having a "senior moment" OR find some other way to fix it such that Mourktar's been gone to Abeir.

Hell, I can see how this mixup could have happened too. I honestly hadn't paid that much attention to the 4e map (because I literally got p.o.'d when 4e came out) until recently and started looking for all the changes that I could use to fix things.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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