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Bookworm
Acolyte
USA
7 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Mar 2017 : 22:40:59
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These are all locations found on the Daggerford Environs map by Mike Schley.
Items in all CAPS have info that I have already found.
Can someone share info or sources on the other places?
Please, and thank you in advance.
- Estates
Anteos Manor
Blackwood Manor
FLOSHIN ESTATE
Twilight House
- Fortifications
Black Helm Tower
CROMM’S HOLD
LIAM’S HOLD
- Woodlands
Blackbranch
Blightwood
Elfwood
Gerd’s Trees
Ghostlight Wood
Warden’s Wood
- Hamlets
Black Brook
Enfield
Five Leagues
Fleming
GILLIAN’S HILL
Hilltop
May Creek
Mud Creek
Newfield
Potter
Rock Island
Rushville
Shimmer Lake (The Hamlet)
Stillwater
Union
Vantage
Warden
- Points of Interest
Delimbiyran
Fallen Monestary
Rock Island Tower
The Mazemine
Vantage Post
- Other Places
Bone Hill
Curstlake
DAGGERFORD
DELIMBIYR RIVER
LIZARD MARSH
MOUNT ILLEFARN
Old King’s Hill
Shimmer Lake (The Lake)
Star Lake
The Crag
TRADE WAY
TRAIL WAY
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2017 : 22:05:02
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LOL - they took all the locales off the map I did for Erik Boyd, without ever explaining some of them? 
And since I wasn't paid, and AFAIK neither was Erik, sharing of the unpublished Under Illefarn Anew isn't something thats about to happen (although I am willing to share the map, Erik would have to say that was okay).
I know there was a 4e Daggerford adventure published, and that may contain some info on those sites. There were actually two different maps (with different locales!) done for that area - one came IN the 5e DMG (as an 'example map', and contained some generic 'core' material), and then there was the somewhat more canon one. The first is simply titled 'Daggerford Region' (on Mike Schley's site), and the other is called, 'The Sword Coast: Daggerford Region' (items 11 & 15 in 'Prints').
The one you seem to be referring to is the not-so-canon (core) one from the 5e DMG, and apparently most of your 'unknowns' stemmed from that. Thus, they may have just been 'filler'.
The published adventure that used the other (canon) Daggerford Environs map was Scourge of the Sword Coast. I don't own that source, so I couldn't even tell you how much - if any - of the Illefarn Anew material made it into that.
In fact, as I look over your list, the only non-capitalized thing I see that I even recognize is Delimbiyran, and I guess it would be kay to share a tiny excerpt of just that -
quote:
Under Illefarn Anew, by Erik Boyd, all rights reserved
The Shining Kingdom of Delimbiyran began as a successor state to the realm of Elembar. In the Year of the Fortress Scoured (511 DR), an orc horde from the Sword Mountains overran Elembar during the height of summer, when many of its nobles were away at their country estates in the foothills of the Forlorn Hills (then known as the Dark Hills). Most of the realm was quickly overrun and the populace put to sword, including the entire royal family. However, the capital city of Delimbiyran survived the onslaught when the horde foundered on Stoneturn, a fortress designed to break such hordes. Once the horde’s momentum had been slowed, High Knight of Delimbiyran Javilarhh “the Dark,” the leader of House Snowsword and a distant relative of the fallen king, rallied the surviving warriors of the realm and led them forth from the capital city of Delimbiyran to destroy those orcs who emerged from the House of Stone.
EDIT:
Bone Hill is taken from 1e module The Secret of Bone Hill, but that was located on Lendore isle, in Greyhawk, not the Forgotten Realms. This leads me to believe some of the other locales may also be 'nods' to old D&D sites. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Mar 2017 03:23:11 |
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Bookworm
Acolyte
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2017 : 02:46:11
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Thank you, Markustay.
This list came from the map Mike Schley is selling on his site. This map does not appear in any product that I can find. That may explain the names from your unpublished book. What a shame.
4th Ed. DMG includes a variant map? Huh. Guess I need to go digging.
Scourge of the Sword Coast was D&D Next or pre-5th. The map there (page 10) covers a larger region with these areas absent. The Daggerford map (page 9) has building listings that do not match those found in other products; they've been changed.
Lastly, what 4th ed adventure is that and where can I find it?
Thanks so much for clearing this up. |
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KanzenAU
Senior Scribe
Australia
763 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2017 : 02:49:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
LOL - they took all the locales off the map I did for Erik Boyd, without ever explaining some of them?
Just for reference, this map only made it into the 5e DMG as a cut-away in the section about mapping (you can't actually see most of the map) - the full map has only ever been published on Schley's website, not in any D&D or FR material. It was used purely as an example of a 1-mile-hex scale map in the DMG, with no detail on the environs as that wasn't why it was there.
You might find some info in N5 Under Illefarn (from memory there's a Mosque of Tyr around too), as if I recall correctly, that's been the most comprehensive source on Daggerford. Scourge of the Sword Coast & Ghosts of Dragonspear Castle also have some info on the surrounding region.
The only uncapitalised one I can help with (other than Delimbiyran) is Black Helm Tower - this was home to one of the Heralds. From memory, the best write up for it was in Code of the Harpers, but it also appears in a couple of other sources such as Eric Boyd's "Waterdeep Environs" supplement to City of Splendors, which is available for free online (it also will have more info on Delimbyran).
Unfortunately as that map wasn't attached to an actual product on Daggerford, most of the sites are likely to remain undetailed. If they were indeed taken from Under Illefarn Anew, you'll probably have to check with Eric Boyd. George Krashos is another expert on the region who may have some info unavailable to us plebs. |
Regional maps for Waterdeep, Triboar, Ardeep Forest, and Cormyr on DM's Guild, plus a campaign sized map for the North |
Edited by - KanzenAU on 24 Mar 2017 02:56:16 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2017 : 03:29:50
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Ah, okay.
As I have neither the 4e or 5e DMG, I got that mixed-up (I do recall thumbing through it at the bookstore and seeing the map - I don't remember that it was obscured). I do own both maps, though, purchased from Mike's site. I edited my post above to avoid future confusion.
As an aside - if and when I get to that region with my new Realms mapping project, I'll probably throw these locales on as well - its only a very small region - just the immediate vicinity of Daggerford (unlike the larger 'Daggerford Region' map that came with SotSC), and it never hurts to have more interesting stuff on a map.
And NO, they weren't taken from Under Illefarn Anew (I have that, and I did the map). At first I thought that may have been what he was talking about - a LOT was indeed added to the Daggerford region by Erik and I (although much of it just came from other sources - Erik is an epic-level researcher LOL). All of those non-capitalized sites (other than the two mentioned - see below) came from no place I can identify (off the top of my head, except for Boot Hill, which I explained above).
*Black Helm Tower was another - good catch. That WAS on MY map, and that was Erik's find, not mine (although I can proudly claim I found 2-3 he was unaware of... I near-impossibility if you know the man ). His cross-referencing Jitsu is off the chart (somehow if you name any place in FR, he can tell you EVERYTHING that is near it, or ever had anything to do with it!)
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Mar 2017 03:41:45 |
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KanzenAU
Senior Scribe
Australia
763 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2017 : 03:52:47
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I have a suspicion that the map in question was supposed to be a part of a chapter on Daggerford in the DMG, giving DMs a starting town similar to how they treated Fallcrest in core 4e. It seems very odd to have such a detailed map, and to only use it in a small cut-away (p14). I'm sure someone must have sat down at some point and thought about what should be on the map, and I imagine somewhere in some designer's notes all these places are detailed. Unfortunately, like so much created FR material, it's probably unlikely to ever see the light of day, simply because it doesn't fit into the current product line.
But that's just a theory. |
Regional maps for Waterdeep, Triboar, Ardeep Forest, and Cormyr on DM's Guild, plus a campaign sized map for the North |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6645 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2017 : 21:39:51
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I don't have it, but I suspect that some or all of the locations are from the "Ghosts of Dragonspear Castle" D&D Next release.
Delimbiyran is the name of the Kingdom of Man.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2017 : 20:24:27
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I found some of the sites on that map in the Ghosts of Dragonspear AP, and if that is canon (its an oddity - looks like an early, pre-release 'quick start' thingie for 4e), then that makes the stuff on that map FR canon as well.
EDIT:
*UGH* - I just now realized all I did was repeat what Krash said above. Just consider this a 'confirmation', then.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 01 Apr 2017 20:26:02 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6645 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2017 : 04:13:51
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I suspect that Ghosts cannibalized some of Eric's "Under Illefarn" work. It was in WotC's hands by then. Unfortunately.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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KanzenAU
Senior Scribe
Australia
763 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2017 : 05:39:01
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The Ambergul Estate is the one that I noticed as well. I had thought that was on the 5e DMG map, but it isn't.
And it falls-out where Erik had me place the ruins of Scathril. I don't know if there is any connection. I just checked, actually the Scarthil ruins lie about 15-20 miles SE of the Ambergul Estate. I think perhaps I was getting it mixed up with Anteos manor on the other map. The Fallen Monastery wasn't from the AP? I thought it was - my bad. I just did a super-fast flip-through, and I guess I was mistaken.
Between that map and AP, and the stuff I am getting from the Liam's Hold thread from the Darkness of Daggerford video game expansion, I have a feeling my next map covering this region is going to be so busy it'll give the Nentir Vale/Neverwinter conversion map a run for its money (although that one is insanely busy.. and I should have an update to that within the next few days as well). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 02 Apr 2017 07:40:32 |
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KanzenAU
Senior Scribe
Australia
763 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2017 : 07:41:45
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| Right... which was D&D 'Next'? I'm losing track. Was that the real name of 4e, before it became 'Essentials'? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 02 Apr 2017 07:42:30 |
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KanzenAU
Senior Scribe
Australia
763 Posts |
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Matrix Sorcica
Seeker
Denmark
89 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2017 : 20:00:04
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| Ghosts of dragonspear castle was a testbed for D&D Next. The adventure specifically states that is draws on the unreleased "Under Illefarn Anew". |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2017 : 22:00:49
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'Unexpected maps' - lol
Thats what I call this one. I wanted to post it today, but I noticed some funkiness with the line thickness of the height elevations (I used two different thicknesses). Plus, I wanted to get the the scale done before posting - I have a rough one done for myself to work off of, and I split the difference between what Erik and I had come up with, and the scale on the 5e map (or was the Daggerford town map 4e?) It just worked out too perfectly - precisely one pixel per foot! I can get very detailed and exact at that definition.
Plus, I still have to draw the bridge itself - I just have the road roughed-in there now. Still, everything is working out much as I pictured it, AND I was able to keep the Tannery to the left (west) of the road, without moving it.
I was rereading parts of Illefarn Anew, and we had come up with 'Deggerford Island' - I hadn't even remembered that. It was a way of fixing the weird N/S of the river placement in some products, plus we were trying to figure out how to make the gravity-defying moat work. I think sometimes when you are too deep into something you don't know when to back back out of it and look at it with a fresh perspective. That's what four years does for you... Daggerford Island... GAH! 
The canon map Mike Schley did simply says 'deep moat' and 'shallow moat' (really referring to the trench itself, and not the water, which wouldn't change height). Nice and simple - we'll go with that. There would still be a 'flood plain' to the north of the town, and that is now clearly defined by my elevation markers - I wish I had these skills four years ago! And the little Daggerford outpost I plan for the other side of the River (confusingly called 'Daggerfort') will more easily cover the whole N/S problem, and tie into the VG material nicely. Hindsight is a great thing. Wish Erik was around to help with this, but I understand his RL got very busy of late. I'm sure when he eventually comes back around he'll be happy with this new map (he's only been waiting FOUR years LOL). The outline of the town comes off one of the maps I did for him, and it still has the numbers & letters on it that go with HIS map key, which I can't publish with the map, unfortunately.
I have to go out for the rest of the day - hopefully I'll have something presentable up on Deviant ART tomorrow. Maybe several somethings, depending on how my day goes. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 03 Apr 2017 22:09:20 |
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Bookworm
Acolyte
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2017 : 23:09:17
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Here is all the info I have on the canon Anteos estate and family in Waterdeep.
ANTEOS
The Anteos Villa is located at N3 (or 141 depending which map you use) along Anteos Lane in the North ward on the Waterdeep map. It includes three 1-story building and one 2-story building. These showy, large buildings are unique, grandiose, and distinctive landmarks. The North ward is the quietest in the city and also one of its wealthiest. It all but shuts down at dusk. The North ward’s placid reputation belies the intrigues and scheming that goes on behind closed doors, and the volumes of smuggled goods that lies in cellars beneath the city streets.
Patriarch: Dulbrawan Anteos (Thethyrian background)
Brother: Korras Anteos (younger)
Consort: Ranaya Anteos
Heir: Dulbrawan Anteos II (infant son), first child was stillborn
Arms: field of white, two brown spear shafts, one silver-headed, impaled
man’s head with brown hair and beard, pink flesh, red blood (lots)
They were enobled in 1248 DR.
Resource Limit: 21,000 gp.
Trades & Interests: Trading, Moneychanging, and Barter. (Formerly slaves).
This Anteos family may be related to those of the Anteos Estate south of Daggerford. There is no information about the current state of this estate.
This is just to add to the discussion as an FYI. |
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KanzenAU
Senior Scribe
Australia
763 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2017 : 06:26:33
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I think this may end up on the DM's Guild (it would probably be more 'okay' than the Nentir/FR conversion I'm working on). Plus, I'm not really adding all that much - just clarifying a few odd loose ends. I finally have Dagger Hill placed in such a way it looks good (I had big trouble with that back in the day - if you follow the contours of the hills on the town maps, the rest of the hill winds up IN the river!), and I managed to keep most nearly everything consistent with multiple editions as well (for instance, I still have the 'old road' passing closer in front of the town, just like on other maps, and that leads to the old ford... which doesn't exist anymore).
Got sidetracked again - I now have my first map with an 'inset' of its own - I couldn't help but do a side view of the bridge (at the same exact scale as the rest of the map!) that part is pretty much done (I NEVER want to draw that many bricks again), but I just couldn't find a decent piece of clipart showing a ship from the nose - everyone likes to draw side views. I found one that was only slightly angled, and I have that pasted in for now for reference, but I will most-likely have to draw my own ship in there to make it look right. Its based on that bridge in that pic I linked above (the one Krash liked), but I arced it to make it look more like previous art, and it also gives us an additional 30-40 of room for masts to pass under (so now we have around 140 clearance from the waterline under normal conditions). I haven't had to really make any compromises for a change, which is nice - not having the usual anxiety I get when I do these (if you haven't notice, I obsess over the minutest details).
So, tomorrow I'll post it. Still haven't spruced-up the scale like I wanted, but its definitely 'presentable' as is now. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 05 Apr 2017 06:28:44 |
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Daggerford and Environs Map
