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 Locating Jakandor in the realms
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5021 Posts

Posted - 17 Mar 2017 :  15:29:19  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
I've liked Jakandor ever since I was introduced to it by Markustay's comments. Its backstory with a little modification on dates absolutely fits the spellplague/sundering scenario, and it would absolutely fit the land right off the east coast of Katashaka that someone labeled tabaxiland if the map were simply rotated 135 degrees clockwise (which would of course mean rotating the compass on the map). The Charonti people absolutely could be related to the human tribes that were the creator races, or they could simply be an imported people from elsewhere (in fact, their history states "The time came when our airships and enchanted portals carried us beyond the shores of our island home").

Just to do the basic math of time to see where things would fall, and how to adjust, gonna throw out some dates from that source

from page 7 of Jakandor, Isle of destiny

The first expedition into other lands was launched under the rule of Ihnkaheser XXIII in the year 4335 of the Hramnethes Dynasty.

from page 8 of Jakandor, Isle of destiny (note, around the world not being limited to their known world)

The Wasting Plague In the year 5350 the world ended. Borne on the magic of any spell or enchantment, the Wasting Plague rocketed around the world like chain lightning. Temples linked by magic spread the plague to every corner of Jakandor. Magical communications sent to warn travelers served only to propel the plague farther and wider. Healing spells and protective magic only fueled the disease. The plazas and streets were piled with bodies.

from page 9 of Jakandor, Isle of destiny

The Magelords For the next five thousand years no building was raised, and no ruler returned to lead us again to wisdom. In the countryside people destroyed all magical artifacts and slew spellcasters on sight in an effort to keep the plague at bay, while ambitious power seekers scoured the ruins of our cities and temples for the magic that would give them the power to rule their brothers.

Then it goes on to indicate how "magelords" established themselves, and the nextsection details the royal house reestablishing themselves during this 5 thousand years, and the royal house and magelords being at odds then they unite.

So at least according to this, the Hramnethes Dynasty was established roughly 10,350 years ago if we take that 5000 years entry literally. If we say that at the time of this published work that we're talking about say 1370 DR to 1490 DR, this this would put this Hramnethes Dynasty starting around ~ -9000 DR to -8850 DR. This would put them using their portals and airships to leave the isle of Jakandor ~ -4665 DR to -4515 DR. This would put the wasting plague being roughly somewhere around ~ -3650 DR to -3500 DR.

However, lets look at the GHotR, and the Imaskari had a "devastating plague" that couldn't be cured in the temples around -4370 DR. What if somehow this "wasting plague" and the plague the Imaskari were inflicted with were related (hmmm, could those blasted elves have performed some high magic ritual aimed at "human" magical methods, but the Imaskari had learned enough about fey or fiendish magic that they adjusted and survived after their initial deaths, but the Charonti didn't know how to?). If we did that, then the 5000 years mentioned previously during the magelord time becomes 5720 to 5870 years in span. That would reset the times to

Hramnethes Dynasty starting around ~ -9720 DR
leaving the isle of Jakandor ~ -5385 DR
Wasting Plague -4370 DR

Of course, linking the two plagues isn't necessary, since it would be all the way on the other side of the world. I did that math to see if the dates helped line up with anything else, but nothing jumps out at me other than the rise of Calimshan, and not sure I'd want to link Jakandor and Calimshan. Also, I note the shape of Jakandor, but I can't necessarily compare the size of Jakandor to the island off Katashaka's east coast.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13081 Posts

Posted - 17 Mar 2017 :  21:39:37  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I used it as the largest and most eastern island of the chain of islands that lead-off (to the east) from Zakhara. A good fit size-wise, it being an island, and the climate, but the cultures, not so much (the necros YES, because that are similar to the necro culture on Sahu {The Isle of the Necromancer-Kings} which is located on the other side of Zakhara, which was detailed in The Complete Book of Necromancers.) I had a name for that whole island chain, but I no longer have a copy of that map.

But now I'm thinking somewhwere south and a bit east of Chult (so in the same basic vicinity of the other placement, but much closer to Faerūn). I picture it as one of sevral islands in a cluster around Chult, which would include returned Abeir (which also works well in a tropical climate, despite the Frigid mountain range in the north - think Himalayas). However, in both locations it woud still work better if the map were 'mirrored', east-to-west (latitudinally), because I just feel the Norse-like cutlure is on the wrong side (unless we shunted it over near Maztica, which would probably be a near-perfect fit, but then I feel no-one would ever really use it).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 17 Mar 2017 21:40:44
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13081 Posts

Posted - 17 Mar 2017 :  22:26:05  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I hadn't really read your post (), so I thought you meant 'physically' placing it. I had never even considered connecting the history (aside from little thought about connecting it to Sahu somehow). I really like the idea of linking the plague(s). Good loring! (can I copyright that word? ).

I'll see what I can do in the way of a 'quick and dirty' hypothesis, geographically. The easiest explanation would be that it went bye-bye at some point (to Abeir), and came back during the Spellplague. Maybe the last of their archmages managed to shift it there, or perhaps their 'gods'. That may be why they though the rest of the world 'died' - all the familiar landmasses were gone (and they no longer had the means to explore in other directions). 'About a century ago' sounds about right for the arrival of the Knorr to Jakandor, so they probably got caught-up int the same event (Spellplague?) that moved the island to Toril, thus losing their homeland as well.

That would probably work best, because their culture is unfamilar. I had thought they were like Northmen, and do have some similarities, but they are 'darker', more Celtic/Conan-like. Perhaps a branch of of my theoretical 'Cortae' culture that went to Abeir many millennia ago? They are also similar to the Abber Nomads of RL, which I also believe originated on Abeir.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 17 Mar 2017 22:30:50
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Markustay
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USA
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Posted - 17 Mar 2017 :  23:58:34  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Giving it a little more thought - it goes to Abeir back in the distant past, perhaps even when the plague struck. The Charonti go with it, and there they stay for thousands of years.

The Spellplague hits, and the Knorr get caught in a terrible storm, and wind-up in Abeir. They sail until the reach Jakandor. End of 3e era.

A century (or so) later the (re)Sundering occurs, and everything is reset - Jakandor 'comes home', with both cultures on it (beginning of 5e era).

That would probably be the best timeline, but we'd still have to place the Knorr - possibly natives of Anchoromé?

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 18 Mar 2017 06:08:42
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Markustay
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USA
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Posted - 18 Mar 2017 :  04:00:29  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sized correctly

I figure I'd play around with my new position/look for Abeir as well.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Zeromaru X
Learned Scribe

Colombia
205 Posts

Posted - 18 Mar 2017 :  04:20:23  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You can also link this to Darkturret, in Gontal. The place got pushed aside from time and space during the Spellplague, and became connected to different places and times since then. A flare of Spellplague could hit any time and any location in Abeir and Toril from Darkturret, even in a time after the Second Sundering (thanks to Darkturret being outside time and space, so, not under Ao's domain anymore).

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Darkturret

BTW, thanks, Markustay!! I was searching for a map like that —has a location for both, Laerakond and Maztica— since I came here to Candlekeep xD

However... what's that large peninsula that is located in the Sword Coast north in your map?

Toward the cobalt, there is a shining Earth. That is where sadness begins. All that we love is returning there...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 18 Mar 2017 04:27:09
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13081 Posts

Posted - 18 Mar 2017 :  06:30:09  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thats the Dragon's Head peninsula, which was well-detailed in Volo's Guide to Baldur's Gate II, and sticks out of Faerūn between Amn and Tethyr (although ostensibly part of Tethyr). Its part of the Lands of Intrigue, well south of The eastern Heartlands and The North.

I'm growing quite fond of that particular placement for Abeir. I liked some of my others as well, but this one doesn't require swapping it for something else, and it makes all those islnads there more 'useful' to a DM (it could be its own little campaign area, running trade bewteen Faerūn and Zakhara).

With Jakandor there, it makes a trip to Maztica much easier, because you can island-hop, although in Jakandor you have to be pretty careful with both sets of natives. I meant to throw the Isle of Dread and maybe even the Isle of the Ape on there as well, just for fun. If FR's going to be THE D&D setting from now on, nosense wasting all those cool locales.

I always pictured the Charonti coming from the northern Zakhara (jungle) region - remnants of their Ruined Kingdoms (which Sahu was also part of). But now I'm seeing them as perhaps some high-tech civilization that had arisen in Maztica ("The Ancients"). The flying ships part of their history would link-up well with the Netherese, but thats going too far back, even for Netheril; though we have at least two other nations in that region that focus on airships and 'other' varieties of air travel ('The Flying Hunt' of Nimbral). Lantan might even have some gnomish SJ Sidewheelers.

All we'd have to do is borrow OD&D/Mystara's Top Ballista and we could do an entire 'air war' thing down there (and lets not forget I've already shared my idea for pteradon-riders out of Chult, a'la the Kushites of the Conan stories). Of couse, I don't think the dragons of Laerakond (Returned Abeir) would be too happy about all that racket in THEIR skies. All we'd need is the Shou to show up with their own version of the Space-battleship Yamato.

Mod edit: Fixed the coding -- the wrong bracket was used.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 18 Mar 2017 15:06:41
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Zeromaru X
Learned Scribe

Colombia
205 Posts

Posted - 18 Mar 2017 :  07:25:29  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I can picture Gauwer not amused, indeed.

About the Dragon Head, is strange that no official map has showed it. Do you a have a complete version of the map, perchance? (it seems cropped in the north).

Toward the cobalt, there is a shining Earth. That is where sadness begins. All that we love is returning there...
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
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Posted - 18 Mar 2017 :  15:15:23  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
NO official map? More like every official map!
I think you are picturing it too far north - everything on that map (which IS an official map, BTW, from the FRIA - I just added Jakandor and Abeir) is BELOW the 5e maps of the Realms.

It got a lot smaller (as did everything) on the 3e maps, but it was still there. Its even on that wretched 4e map of Faerūn.

On THIS MAP you can see it, straight north from Chult, and SE of The Moonshaes. Thats the 3e map someone scanned.


*Also, the world map in the FRIA tends to distort smaller features, so it also may be looking a bit bigger on that map than it actually is.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 18 Mar 2017 16:03:01
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Zeromaru X
Learned Scribe

Colombia
205 Posts

Posted - 18 Mar 2017 :  15:44:27  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Also, the world map in the FRIA tends to distort smaller features, so it also may be looking a bit bigger on that map than it actually is).



Yeah, I guess this is what is happening. Comparing it with other maps, is bigger in that one.

Toward the cobalt, there is a shining Earth. That is where sadness begins. All that we love is returning there...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 18 Mar 2017 15:47:34
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Markustay
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USA
13081 Posts

Posted - 18 Mar 2017 :  16:04:42  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Heres another map from the FRIA - one with a close-up of the coast -

West Coast of Faerūn

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Markustay
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USA
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Posted - 18 Mar 2017 :  18:40:19  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This one is a little better - more detail, and I swapped-in the finer version from above -

More Detailed version of 5e FR w/Abeir AND Jakandor (and if you're not a fan of Jakandor, just ignore it).

Note I colored the two large islands/subcontinents to match the FRIA map better. The Dragon's Head peninsula also looks a lot more normal now.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 18 Mar 2017 18:41:41
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Zeromaru X
Learned Scribe

Colombia
205 Posts

Posted - 18 Mar 2017 :  19:21:11  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm going to steal this map. I don't knew about Jakandor, but don't mind about it, either (can be useful). Since the Sundering 2.0 I was planing to use Laerakond like a personal sandbox, and this map is perfect for that.

I've noted, however, that the map of Laerakond is kinda different from your earlier one or the canon one (the shape). No problemo with that either, but I noticed the change.

Toward the cobalt, there is a shining Earth. That is where sadness begins. All that we love is returning there...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 18 Mar 2017 19:23:47
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13081 Posts

Posted - 19 Mar 2017 :  01:01:12  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I wanted to make it somewhat more realistic - the 'donut' shaped continent/island is an over-used trope, IMO, so I tweaked it a little.

The original map was even worse then the 4e FR one, which I was told by 'official sources' was meant to be more suggestive, than definitive. An 'abstract' version of a real map, I believe was the word used (which may or may not have just been an excuse, because the 4e map was so ugly and inaccurate).

So you might ask, how could the only version of a map be an 'abstracted' version? (referring to the Returned Abeir map) Other than the fact it was done in the same style, of course? Because Ed said as much - that the map that appeared in the 4e FRCG was 'off' from what he visualized (I can't recall if he said he drew a rough map or not). For example, he said the eastern 'arm' was supposed to be 'fatter', with far more unexplored wilderness. Thats part of the reason why I made that side fatter (that, plus I like the adventuring opportunities a narrow channel with a 'pinch point' somewhere around the middle affords).

So now the shape is somewhat more 'natural' looking (the inlet/central bay also doesn't extend as far north). And I didn't lose anything, really - it is just 'squished' on the right side now.

Thus, this is just another way of ME interpreting the 'stylized' 4e map. I'm pretty sure no-one else ever did one, so its all good. The ports there make more sense now, since they are all equally (pretty much) reachable, and the fact that they have trade with both Faerūn and Zakhara also means all ports would be busy (part of world building is understanding things have to exist for a reason - one of the things I did for another setting not too long ago was reorganize locales, because there were things like "a trade-hub city" sitting on the edge of the map, with no-one to trade with, and nothing worth trading. I've found since I've started doing this that a lot of perfectly intelligent and talented people don't understand that just because something is 'fantasy' doesn't mean it doesn't have to have sound logic behind it.

And this is why I constantly tweak maps, and not just The Realms; a map is more than just a picture of terrain - it needs to pull you in and make you feel like its a living, breathing biosphere. That there are people and other things living their entire lives there. Thats the difference between a map you walk past at a convention, and one that makes you stop dead in your tracks and ask questions. Good maps make you want to know more.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 19 Mar 2017 01:06:30
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